Why do you think that certain perks, say, Juggernaut  or Martyrdom or any of these other perks you consider to be "nooby" shouldn't be in the game. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean the person using them is any less skilled or anything like that.

Y'know I really don't like snipers in this game but that doesn't mean I think all sniping weapons should be removed from the game. I don't think that players that use this particular strategy are "noobs" because they hide away and kill from a distance. It's just another way of playing the game, another strategy to use and it's exactly the same for perks.

If I'm playing against snipers I change the way I play to try and avoid them and take advantage of their small field of vision whilst they are sniping. If you come across a player using a perk you don't like, don't piss and moan about it, adapt the way you play. Counter their tactics with your own.

(Edited for readability)

Great points.  I also don't like snipes but just because my aim is horrible with them . And i wish i could shoot like the ones that kill me.

The thing that bugs me the most about martyrdom is that it basically makes you a suicide bomber. How many U.S. Marines do you think would pull the pin on a grenade while they're on the ground dieing?

I dun care, Matyrdom is noob anyway you look at it.

"I dun care, Matyrdom is noob anyway you look at it."

The thing that bugs me the most about martyrdom is that it basically makes you a suicide bomber. How many U.S. Marines do you think would pull the pin on a grenade while they're on the ground dieing?

Viking, seriously, how did you get your username like that? It's all weird and stuff.

Sorry, off topic I know.

Because you get a chance at a freekill if another player takes you down?
They could've at least made it so you had to have at least one grenade left for it to even work.

Exactly. All perks give you some sort of advantage, and it's up to the player to choose which advantage he wants. If martyrdom and juggernaut give you a better chance of getting kills, then surely choosing them is a wise decision. That's the whole point of perks.

I don't like them, but I don't really care that people use them... if that makes any sense.

"I don't like them, but I don't really care that people use them... if that makes any sense."

I don't even play with a mic on XBL anymore, unless I'm having a private chat with my friends.

Good read and I'll keep this post in mind.

It's noob because its cheap. You don't actually do anything, you just die and drop a grenade. Chances are if the opponent is occupied he'll get killed. You can counter it, but it serves no purpose but annoying other players and making the game lame.

It's like playing an RTS game where when your units die they explode. If you invade an enemy base, you should defeat them based on your offensive strategy, not because your tanks can blow up when they die. It's totally cheap...

All perks give you an advantage, but some of them are unbalanced, and are overpowered.

"It's noob because its cheap. You don't actually do anything, you just die and drop a grenade. Chances are if the opponent is occupied he'll get killed. You can counter it, but it serves no purpose but annoying other players and making the game lame.

It's like playing an RTS game where when your units die they explode. If you invade an enemy base, you should defeat them based on your offensive strategy, not because your tanks can blow up when they die. It's totally cheap...

All perks give you an advantage, but some of them are unbalanced, and are overpowered."

I've heard this many times before.. although, while your points are valid, seen from a perspective that it's not "noobish" to use, if it's in the game.. Everyone can agree that juggling in Tekken, or spawnkilling in (insert whatever game that you're able to that) games etc, is somewhat lame? Right?.. Alright, so my point is, matyrdom is perhaps the weakest, from a developers side, to put into the game.. It somewhat ruins the online experience, because it's uneeded, and totally unrealistic (compared to most of the game that is).. How the hell do one manage to pull a grenade when he gets his mind blown out with a rifle for instance?  and the US suicde bomber was funny as well ;)
But hell, I don't think there are many recorded incidents where a guy run around, shoots and then when he got plown down, he drops a grenade (real life this is)..
Matyrdom is a poor choice from developers side to include in the game, and I think many would agree, certainly, you met someone who are abit more outspoken than me, about the issue.. As for juggernaut, let it stay for all I care.. (except the fact you can survive a shot to the head, whats up with that?) 

Yeah - but the game just gets annoying when you have to jump away every time you kill someone.

If everyone decided to use martydom, it would be so lame...grenades going off everywhere, you die more from random grenade drops than actual guns.

Taking out martyrdom would make the game less frustrating for all players.

My last post has points relevant to what you say so I'm not gonna repost them all. But now for some new stuff...
The Martyrdom perk does seem to have been a bit of laziness on the developers side. I can just imagine that they were in a meeting one day that went something like this:

Project lead: "Hey guys we still need to think up one more perk, any ideas?"
Some dude: "Uhh how about when you die you just, like, drop a 'nade man"
Project lead: "Sounds great, put it in there!"

I don't think a great amount of thought or balancing went into creating it but you can't do anything about it so I'm just saying go with it and learn from previous encounters.

Martyrdom rewards you for dieing. Juggernaut gives an unfair advantage against two people in a fire fight. /thread.

How is it unfair? It's completely fair to use perks, that's what they're there for.

People who bitch about juggernaut, martyrdom and last stand need a slap and a boot from the server. Seriously martyrdom is easy to avoid, why? theres a bloody grenade indicator to tell you where the nade is. Short of having a big flashing neon bright icon appear flashing to show you i can't think of anything more that could be included to let you know, give you a heads up and make you realise where the hell it is.

Juggernaut is perfectly acceptable aswell since it provides a minor health boost and slight advantage against snipers and allows players to rush with a little more confidence. COD4 only needs you to put 2 or 3 shots into an enemy to drop them so juggernaut allows you to survive that and have a chance to fight back. Its also a way to make players shoot and aim better instead of just spraying and praying to kill you're opponent.

Last Stand is a little like Juggernaut in that its a great way to add some challenge and skill, you can spray and pray but you need to make sure you've dropped you're enemy and it gives players a last attempt at some kills to boost the score. Really theres nothing wrong with it, players should be more observant and make sure they've killed their enemies before turning their backs and getting shot themselves.

I don't moan about people using them, that's dumb. They're in the game, use them. Some of the perks do have problems however, such as Martyrdom. That's not the fault of anyone playing though, and if they can use those perks successfully then that's cool, but some of them do have to be refined on the back end a little. In my opinion at least.

"People who bitch about juggernaut, martyrdom and last stand need a slap and a boot from the server. Seriously martyrdom is easy to avoid, why? theres a bloody grenade indicator to tell you where the nade is. Short of having a big flashing neon bright icon appear flashing to show you i can't think of anything more that could be included to let you know, give you a heads up and make you realise where the hell it is.

Juggernaut is perfectly acceptable aswell since it provides a minor health boost and slight advantage against snipers and allows players to rush with a little more confidence. COD4 only needs you to put 2 or 3 shots into an enemy to drop them so juggernaut allows you to survive that and have a chance to fight back. Its also a way to make players shoot and aim better instead of just spraying and praying to kill you're opponent.

Last Stand is a little like Juggernaut in that its a great way to add some challenge and skill, you can spray and pray but you need to make sure you've dropped you're enemy and it gives players a last attempt at some kills to boost the score. Really theres nothing wrong with it, players should be more observant and make sure they've killed their enemies before turning their backs and getting shot themselves."

I see Matyrdom as just a punishment to the other player that managed to kill the guy with it. I am not gonna say "OMGZ11 FU n00b!!" but that perk is damn annoying, it comes to the point that you're scared to go round a corner and shoot someone because you're just going to die as well. I don't mind last stand though mainly because it requires some sort of aim. However I don't use those two perks, I like choosing perks which will help me perform better and not just get lucky.

"If everyone decided to use martydom, it would be so lame...grenades going off everywhere"

"xruntime said:

"If everyone decided to use martydom, it would be so lame...grenades going off everywhere"

Haven't you noticed, grenades go off everywhere in every map in every game...

Perks are perks, i use juggernaut say for using weapons that put me out in the open a lot, like the M4 and P90, then use others that maximise the potential for the weapon, couple that with correctly using the controls to get a quick kill then you actually do well in a game that's a tactical use for the right perks. Martydom is the outcast perk. You can't use it for anything else, not even weapons, so it just becomes a booby trap perk.

"

"I see Matyrdom as just a punishment to the other player that managed to kill the guy with it. I am not gonna say "OMGZ11 FU n00b!!" but that perk is damn annoying, it comes to the point that you're scared to go round a corner and shoot someone because you're just going to die as well. I don't mind last stand though mainly because it requires some sort of aim. However I don't use those two perks, I like choosing perks which will help me perform better and not just get lucky."

I agree with everything you said. I hate when people complain about people using certain perks.

The only annoying imbalancing thing is Juggernaut in my opinion. I don't use it out of principle, but when I did when I first got the game because of the lack of options, and had my M16 complete with a grenade launcher, I won every game.

The difference is that sniping takes skill no matter how you look at it. Martyrdom just gives you a random chance of killing someone if you were bad enough to get killed in the first place. It's like getting a consolation prize for being bad at the game. Juggernaut is the same thing because it's so easy to get back behind cover in that game that if someone was trying to shoot at you and they lost their kill just because of a stupid health increase that isn't anywhere indicated visually before they shoot they feel cheated. I do think those things are pretty cheap, but I don't play CoD4 much anyway.

"Great points.  I also don't like snipes but just because my aim is horrible with them . And i wish i could shoot like the ones that kill me."

"The difference is that sniping takes skill no matter how you look at it. Martyrdom just gives you a random chance of killing someone if you were bad enough to get killed in the first place. It's like getting a consolation prize for being bad at the game. Juggernaut is the same thing because it's so easy to get back behind cover in that game that if someone was trying to shoot at you and they lost their kill just because of a stupid health increase that isn't anywhere indicated visually before they shoot they feel cheated. I do think those things are pretty cheap, but I don't play CoD4 much anyway."

It's not really the perks themselves (in most cases); it's the balancing issues they bring to the table. Juggernaut should be changed some (I made a topic on this myself), but the one I'm most concerned with is the frag grenade one. I'm so tired of the frag fests in literally every game, just because three or four guys per team will use the perk and then throw them like mad men. It really downplays the intimacy of the combat, which is fairly annoying.

"DualReaver said:

"I dun care, Matyrdom is noob anyway you look at it."

See that's the sort of narrowminded post I was hoping we could avoid here.
Try explaining WHY you think that. I can understand why you might but please do let us know your reasoning."

"If, after all this time, you're still getting killed a lot by martyrdom or last stand, do yourself a favor and play something else. COD4 obviously isn't for you."

"

If, after all this time, you're still getting killed a lot by martyrdom or last stand, do yourself a favor and play something else. COD4 obviously isn't for you.

"

In regards to Matyrdom when you hear the ping or see the indicator, RUN!  It's not that hard to figure out.  When you shot somebody make sure you see the "You've killed..." message come up before you turn your back or you might end up with a pistol bullet to the head.

the only thing about martyrdom i dont like is i cant get my teabag on and i enjoy teabagging people but when i die i dont get mad cause i know its my fault :P 

"Kung_Fu_Viking said:

"DualReaver said:

"I dun care, Matyrdom is noob anyway you look at it."

See that's the sort of narrowminded post I was hoping we could avoid here.
Try explaining WHY you think that. I can understand why you might but please do let us know your reasoning."

Don't be an idiot. There is no skill in Martyrdom, you die, you drop a grenade, hopefully you get a kill. If you think that tactical 'dying' is skill there's a name for that. A noob."

Juggernaut isn't for noobs. It's for pussies. You don't need extra health. You should be running around like a bad ass hurting people. Why would anyone want extra health when you can have extra damage?

STOPPING POWER FTW!

I don't have anything against Juggernaut. Last Stand is only annoying when it deprives you of your kill.

"

If, after all this time, you're still getting killed a lot by martyrdom or last stand, do yourself a favor and play something else. COD4 obviously isn't for you.

"

"Jeff said:

"

If, after all this time, you're still getting killed a lot by martyrdom or last stand, do yourself a favor and play something else. COD4 obviously isn't for you.

"

I hear they're making new game modes with no perks allowed."

I think everybody forgets that they're playing videogames for fun. Hurray.

"I think everybody forgets that they're playing videogames for fun. Hurray."

Because if I hit someone in the chest with a Barret 50. they should die. Period. If I hit someone in the neck with a Barret 50. they should die. Period. Juggarnaut is bullshit. Period.

come on. really? come on.

I agree with what someone else said earlier. You should at the very least have a grenade left.

Also at least with last stand you actually have to work for your kill rather than just dying and hoping for the best.

"The thing that bugs me the most about martyrdom is that it basically makes you a suicide bomber. How many U.S. Marines do you think would pull the pin on a grenade while they're on the ground dieing?"

"AndrewGaspar said:

"The thing that bugs me the most about martyrdom is that it basically makes you a suicide bomber. How many U.S. Marines do you think would pull the pin on a grenade while they're on the ground dieing?"

News Flash. ITS A FUCKING VIDEOGAME"

A game mechanic that offers a potential  reward for failure is just stupid. It dis-incentivises people from playing properly/fairly, and punishes good players for using certain strategies (winning strategies).

If you don't think martyrdom is a problem, then that's nice for you. But for 99% of people who play games where winning is the (supposed) objective, features like martyrdom run counter to the whole idea of the game.

That's why I don't like martyrdom.