To people who get annoyed about certain perk "noobs"

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#1 Edited by Kung_Fu_Viking (717 posts) -

Why do you think that certain perks, say, Juggernaut  or Martyrdom or any of these other perks you consider to be "nooby" shouldn't be in the game. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean the person using them is any less skilled or anything like that.

Y'know I really don't like snipers in this game but that doesn't mean I think all sniping weapons should be removed from the game. I don't think that players that use this particular strategy are "noobs" because they hide away and kill from a distance. It's just another way of playing the game, another strategy to use and it's exactly the same for perks.

If I'm playing against snipers I change the way I play to try and avoid them and take advantage of their small field of vision whilst they are sniping. If you come across a player using a perk you don't like, don't piss and moan about it, adapt the way you play. Counter their tactics with your own.

(Edited for readability)

#2 Posted by SlimDogg (159 posts) -

Great points.  I also don't like snipes but just because my aim is horrible with them . And i wish i could shoot like the ones that kill me.

#3 Posted by AndrewGaspar (2419 posts) -

The thing that bugs me the most about martyrdom is that it basically makes you a suicide bomber. How many U.S. Marines do you think would pull the pin on a grenade while they're on the ground dieing?

#4 Posted by DualReaver (3882 posts) -

I dun care, Matyrdom is noob anyway you look at it.

#5 Edited by Kung_Fu_Viking (717 posts) -
DualReaver said:
"I dun care, Matyrdom is noob anyway you look at it."
See that's the sort of narrowminded post I was hoping we could avoid here.
Try explaining WHY you think that. I can understand why you might but please do let us know your reasoning.

AndrewGaspar said:
The thing that bugs me the most about martyrdom is that it basically makes you a suicide bomber. How many U.S. Marines do you think would pull the pin on a grenade while they're on the ground dieing?
Yeah that perk + U.S. Marines doesn't make a whole lot of sense but hey! It's a game =P
#6 Posted by Shawn (3825 posts) -

Viking, seriously, how did you get your username like that? It's all weird and stuff.

Sorry, off topic I know.

#7 Edited by DualReaver (3882 posts) -

Because you get a chance at a freekill if another player takes you down?
They could've at least made it so you had to have at least one grenade left for it to even work.

#8 Posted by samcotts (2258 posts) -

Exactly. All perks give you some sort of advantage, and it's up to the player to choose which advantage he wants. If martyrdom and juggernaut give you a better chance of getting kills, then surely choosing them is a wise decision. That's the whole point of perks.

#9 Posted by suneku (2997 posts) -

I don't like them, but I don't really care that people use them... if that makes any sense.

#10 Posted by Kung_Fu_Viking (717 posts) -
suneku said:
"I don't like them, but I don't really care that people use them... if that makes any sense."
It does, I get annoyed about the people who don't like them but then shout and scream about it throughout a game: "DuuDDEE u R usIn teh n0ob perk j00 fuxing noob". I just get so tired of it. Thank goodness for the 'Mute' button.
#11 Posted by suneku (2997 posts) -

I don't even play with a mic on XBL anymore, unless I'm having a private chat with my friends.

#12 Posted by tmontana1004 (376 posts) -

Good read and I'll keep this post in mind.

#13 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -

It's noob because its cheap. You don't actually do anything, you just die and drop a grenade. Chances are if the opponent is occupied he'll get killed. You can counter it, but it serves no purpose but annoying other players and making the game lame.

It's like playing an RTS game where when your units die they explode. If you invade an enemy base, you should defeat them based on your offensive strategy, not because your tanks can blow up when they die. It's totally cheap...

All perks give you an advantage, but some of them are unbalanced, and are overpowered.

#14 Posted by Kung_Fu_Viking (717 posts) -
xruntime said:
"It's noob because its cheap. You don't actually do anything, you just die and drop a grenade. Chances are if the opponent is occupied he'll get killed. You can counter it, but it serves no purpose but annoying other players and making the game lame.

It's like playing an RTS game where when your units die they explode. If you invade an enemy base, you should defeat them based on your offensive strategy, not because your tanks can blow up when they die. It's totally cheap...

All perks give you an advantage, but some of them are unbalanced, and are overpowered."

Good points, but surely if you get caught off guard by it once you should make a mental note to be more cautious when taking out the player. It's forcing you to rethink your strategy, you can't just get up close and attack with no thought. Sure there are cases when you get stuck in a corner after killing someone with Martyrdom and you can't really escape but is that really much different from getting cornered by a dude with a gun?
#15 Posted by LooM (73 posts) -

I've heard this many times before.. although, while your points are valid, seen from a perspective that it's not "noobish" to use, if it's in the game.. Everyone can agree that juggling in Tekken, or spawnkilling in (insert whatever game that you're able to that) games etc, is somewhat lame? Right?.. Alright, so my point is, matyrdom is perhaps the weakest, from a developers side, to put into the game.. It somewhat ruins the online experience, because it's uneeded, and totally unrealistic (compared to most of the game that is).. How the hell do one manage to pull a grenade when he gets his mind blown out with a rifle for instance?  and the US suicde bomber was funny as well ;)
But hell, I don't think there are many recorded incidents where a guy run around, shoots and then when he got plown down, he drops a grenade (real life this is)..
Matyrdom is a poor choice from developers side to include in the game, and I think many would agree, certainly, you met someone who are abit more outspoken than me, about the issue.. As for juggernaut, let it stay for all I care.. (except the fact you can survive a shot to the head, whats up with that?) 

#16 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -

Yeah - but the game just gets annoying when you have to jump away every time you kill someone.

If everyone decided to use martydom, it would be so lame...grenades going off everywhere, you die more from random grenade drops than actual guns.

Taking out martyrdom would make the game less frustrating for all players.

#17 Edited by Kung_Fu_Viking (717 posts) -

My last post has points relevant to what you say so I'm not gonna repost them all. But now for some new stuff...
The Martyrdom perk does seem to have been a bit of laziness on the developers side. I can just imagine that they were in a meeting one day that went something like this:

Project lead: "Hey guys we still need to think up one more perk, any ideas?"
Some dude: "Uhh how about when you die you just, like, drop a 'nade man"
Project lead: "Sounds great, put it in there!"

I don't think a great amount of thought or balancing went into creating it but you can't do anything about it so I'm just saying go with it and learn from previous encounters.

#18 Posted by Relys (984 posts) -

Martyrdom rewards you for dieing. Juggernaut gives an unfair advantage against two people in a fire fight. /thread.

#19 Posted by Kung_Fu_Viking (717 posts) -

How is it unfair? It's completely fair to use perks, that's what they're there for.

#20 Posted by Hamz (6846 posts) -

People who bitch about juggernaut, martyrdom and last stand need a slap and a boot from the server. Seriously martyrdom is easy to avoid, why? theres a bloody grenade indicator to tell you where the nade is. Short of having a big flashing neon bright icon appear flashing to show you i can't think of anything more that could be included to let you know, give you a heads up and make you realise where the hell it is.

Juggernaut is perfectly acceptable aswell since it provides a minor health boost and slight advantage against snipers and allows players to rush with a little more confidence. COD4 only needs you to put 2 or 3 shots into an enemy to drop them so juggernaut allows you to survive that and have a chance to fight back. Its also a way to make players shoot and aim better instead of just spraying and praying to kill you're opponent.

Last Stand is a little like Juggernaut in that its a great way to add some challenge and skill, you can spray and pray but you need to make sure you've dropped you're enemy and it gives players a last attempt at some kills to boost the score. Really theres nothing wrong with it, players should be more observant and make sure they've killed their enemies before turning their backs and getting shot themselves.

#21 Posted by Shasam (468 posts) -

I don't moan about people using them, that's dumb. They're in the game, use them. Some of the perks do have problems however, such as Martyrdom. That's not the fault of anyone playing though, and if they can use those perks successfully then that's cool, but some of them do have to be refined on the back end a little. In my opinion at least.

#22 Posted by wmz (14 posts) -
Hamz said:
"People who bitch about juggernaut, martyrdom and last stand need a slap and a boot from the server. Seriously martyrdom is easy to avoid, why? theres a bloody grenade indicator to tell you where the nade is. Short of having a big flashing neon bright icon appear flashing to show you i can't think of anything more that could be included to let you know, give you a heads up and make you realise where the hell it is.

Juggernaut is perfectly acceptable aswell since it provides a minor health boost and slight advantage against snipers and allows players to rush with a little more confidence. COD4 only needs you to put 2 or 3 shots into an enemy to drop them so juggernaut allows you to survive that and have a chance to fight back. Its also a way to make players shoot and aim better instead of just spraying and praying to kill you're opponent.

Last Stand is a little like Juggernaut in that its a great way to add some challenge and skill, you can spray and pray but you need to make sure you've dropped you're enemy and it gives players a last attempt at some kills to boost the score. Really theres nothing wrong with it, players should be more observant and make sure they've killed their enemies before turning their backs and getting shot themselves."

Whilst I agree with your points about Last Stand and Juggernaut.. your point about Martyrdom.. not so much. Yup.. theres an icon alright.. but there are a lot of times when you kill your opponent in a tight space and it explodes in your face because your ally was blocking the doorway or you get clipped on something on the floor or the edge of a wall (this is more annoying in smaller maps). Or times when you frag someone infront of you.. run up to their body (say to swap weapons because you've run out of ammo) and you see the grenade icon for a split second and then BAM! There are things of course.. buh Ill leave it at that.

Its not the Martyrdom is `nooby`.. its just overused. I personally use Martyrdom just to counter others with Martyrdom.. but I would use Steady Aim if it wasnt so blatantly used for cheap kills.
#23 Posted by Zebadee (491 posts) -

I see Matyrdom as just a punishment to the other player that managed to kill the guy with it. I am not gonna say "OMGZ11 FU n00b!!" but that perk is damn annoying, it comes to the point that you're scared to go round a corner and shoot someone because you're just going to die as well. I don't mind last stand though mainly because it requires some sort of aim. However I don't use those two perks, I like choosing perks which will help me perform better and not just get lucky.

#24 Posted by Rhombus_Of_Terror (2169 posts) -
xruntime said:
"If everyone decided to use martydom, it would be so lame...grenades going off everywhere"

Haven't you noticed, grenades go off everywhere in every map in every game...

Perks are perks, i use juggernaut say for using weapons that put me out in the open a lot, like the M4 and P90, then use others that maximise the potential for the weapon, couple that with correctly using the controls to get a quick kill then you actually do well in a game that's a tactical use for the right perks. Martydom is the outcast perk. You can't use it for anything else, not even weapons, so it just becomes a booby trap perk.
#25 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -
RhombusOfTerror said:
"xruntime said:
"If everyone decided to use martydom, it would be so lame...grenades going off everywhere"

Haven't you noticed, grenades go off everywhere in every map in every game...

Perks are perks, i use juggernaut say for using weapons that put me out in the open a lot, like the M4 and P90, then use others that maximise the potential for the weapon, couple that with correctly using the controls to get a quick kill then you actually do well in a game that's a tactical use for the right perks. Martydom is the outcast perk. You can't use it for anything else, not even weapons, so it just becomes a booby trap perk.
"
No they don't...unless you have unlimited grenades checked and you're playing Halo 3...

Zebadee
said:
"I see Matyrdom as just a punishment to the other player that managed to kill the guy with it. I am not gonna say "OMGZ11 FU n00b!!" but that perk is damn annoying, it comes to the point that you're scared to go round a corner and shoot someone because you're just going to die as well. I don't mind last stand though mainly because it requires some sort of aim. However I don't use those two perks, I like choosing perks which will help me perform better and not just get lucky."
^^ I agree ....it doesn't add anything to the game besides annoying the people who get kills.
#26 Posted by Shocker (2339 posts) -

I agree with everything you said. I hate when people complain about people using certain perks.

#27 Posted by keyhunter (3207 posts) -

The only annoying imbalancing thing is Juggernaut in my opinion. I don't use it out of principle, but when I did when I first got the game because of the lack of options, and had my M16 complete with a grenade launcher, I won every game.

#28 Posted by SpikeDelight (708 posts) -

The difference is that sniping takes skill no matter how you look at it. Martyrdom just gives you a random chance of killing someone if you were bad enough to get killed in the first place. It's like getting a consolation prize for being bad at the game. Juggernaut is the same thing because it's so easy to get back behind cover in that game that if someone was trying to shoot at you and they lost their kill just because of a stupid health increase that isn't anywhere indicated visually before they shoot they feel cheated. I do think those things are pretty cheap, but I don't play CoD4 much anyway.

#29 Edited by Cirdain (3156 posts) -
SlimDogg said:
"Great points.  I also don't like snipes but just because my aim is horrible with them . And i wish i could shoot like the ones that kill me."
same but i do generally sux at COD4
#30 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -
SpikeDelight said:
"The difference is that sniping takes skill no matter how you look at it. Martyrdom just gives you a random chance of killing someone if you were bad enough to get killed in the first place. It's like getting a consolation prize for being bad at the game. Juggernaut is the same thing because it's so easy to get back behind cover in that game that if someone was trying to shoot at you and they lost their kill just because of a stupid health increase that isn't anywhere indicated visually before they shoot they feel cheated. I do think those things are pretty cheap, but I don't play CoD4 much anyway."
#31 Posted by Mourne (789 posts) -

It's not really the perks themselves (in most cases); it's the balancing issues they bring to the table. Juggernaut should be changed some (I made a topic on this myself), but the one I'm most concerned with is the frag grenade one. I'm so tired of the frag fests in literally every game, just because three or four guys per team will use the perk and then throw them like mad men. It really downplays the intimacy of the combat, which is fairly annoying.

#32 Posted by Jeff (3671 posts) -
If, after all this time, you're still getting killed a lot by martyrdom or last stand, do yourself a favor and play something else. COD4 obviously isn't for you.
Staff Online
#33 Posted by Demilich (2598 posts) -
Kung_Fu_Viking said:
"DualReaver said:
"I dun care, Matyrdom is noob anyway you look at it."
See that's the sort of narrowminded post I was hoping we could avoid here.
Try explaining WHY you think that. I can understand why you might but please do let us know your reasoning."
Don't be an idiot. There is no skill in Martyrdom, you die, you drop a grenade, hopefully you get a kill. If you think that tactical 'dying' is skill there's a name for that. A noob.
#34 Posted by Mourne (789 posts) -
Jeff said:
"If, after all this time, you're still getting killed a lot by martyrdom or last stand, do yourself a favor and play something else. COD4 obviously isn't for you."
Heh, apparently there are people that have yet to discover the "sprint" button.
#35 Edited by DualReaver (3882 posts) -
Jeff said:
"
If, after all this time, you're still getting killed a lot by martyrdom or last stand, do yourself a favor and play something else. COD4 obviously isn't for you.
"
So? That doesn't mean that a perk that rewards players for dieing is right.

Last Stand is fine but Martyrdom is a little cheap especially since you can have no grenades left and your character will still drop one.
And no I don't die very often from it.
#36 Posted by MetalRocker (58 posts) -

In regards to Matyrdom when you hear the ping or see the indicator, RUN!  It's not that hard to figure out.  When you shot somebody make sure you see the "You've killed..." message come up before you turn your back or you might end up with a pistol bullet to the head.

#37 Posted by ZombieHunterOG (3530 posts) -

the only thing about martyrdom i dont like is i cant get my teabag on and i enjoy teabagging people but when i die i dont get mad cause i know its my fault :P 

#38 Edited by Kung_Fu_Viking (717 posts) -
Demilich said:
"Kung_Fu_Viking said:
"DualReaver said:
"I dun care, Matyrdom is noob anyway you look at it."
See that's the sort of narrowminded post I was hoping we could avoid here.
Try explaining WHY you think that. I can understand why you might but please do let us know your reasoning."
Don't be an idiot. There is no skill in Martyrdom, you die, you drop a grenade, hopefully you get a kill. If you think that tactical 'dying' is skill there's a name for that. A noob."
I was just trying to keep the discussion going rather than letting it descend into those sorts of posts.

Clearly Martyrdom is the most hotly debated perk and there are arguments for and against it's use. I don't think of it as "tactical dying", if I'm using Martyrdom I don't run around trying to get myself killed in good places in the hope that someone will run into the grenade. It's just an extra little "booby-trap" if you die and it adds a need to be much more cautious in the game.

As for Juggernaut, it's a perfectly fine choice of perk allowing you to take just that little bit more fire but if you get over-confident thinking "Yeah, I can easily run through this hallway without getting killed cause of Juggernaut" then it could be your downfall.
#39 Posted by mandeponium (275 posts) -

Juggernaut isn't for noobs. It's for pussies. You don't need extra health. You should be running around like a bad ass hurting people. Why would anyone want extra health when you can have extra damage?

STOPPING POWER FTW!

#40 Posted by Demilich (2598 posts) -

I don't have anything against Juggernaut. Last Stand is only annoying when it deprives you of your kill.

#41 Posted by mandeponium (275 posts) -
Jeff said:
"
If, after all this time, you're still getting killed a lot by martyrdom or last stand, do yourself a favor and play something else. COD4 obviously isn't for you.
"

I hear they're making new game modes with no perks allowed.
#42 Posted by Kung_Fu_Viking (717 posts) -
mandeponium said:
"Jeff said:
"
If, after all this time, you're still getting killed a lot by martyrdom or last stand, do yourself a favor and play something else. COD4 obviously isn't for you.
"

I hear they're making new game modes with no perks allowed."
Yeah, it's "Barebones team Deathmatch" if I remember correctly (Which I do). Also disable kill streak rewards (Airstrikes, Helicopters etc.)
Shame they're not doing it for normal FFA.
#43 Posted by ep_driver (453 posts) -

I think everybody forgets that they're playing videogames for fun. Hurray.

#44 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -
ep_driver said:
"I think everybody forgets that they're playing videogames for fun. Hurray."
Yeah, and that annoying perks makes it less fun.

@Jeff - Even if you should be able to avoid the grenade 75% of the time doesn't mean its right.

Just look at Valve - they've recognized all the major complaints about their game (TF2) and have addressed them. Some of them aren't really that important, but they fixed them nonetheless. That's what I call good customer service.

#45 Posted by BiggerBomb (6944 posts) -

Because if I hit someone in the chest with a Barret 50. they should die. Period. If I hit someone in the neck with a Barret 50. they should die. Period. Juggarnaut is bullshit. Period.

#46 Posted by FiestaUnicorn (1577 posts) -

come on. really? come on.

#47 Posted by DanCarmichael (220 posts) -

I agree with what someone else said earlier. You should at the very least have a grenade left.

Also at least with last stand you actually have to work for your kill rather than just dying and hoping for the best.

#48 Posted by JNYR (112 posts) -
AndrewGaspar said:
"The thing that bugs me the most about martyrdom is that it basically makes you a suicide bomber. How many U.S. Marines do you think would pull the pin on a grenade while they're on the ground dieing?"
News Flash. ITS A FUCKING VIDEOGAME
#49 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -
JNYR said:
"AndrewGaspar said:
"The thing that bugs me the most about martyrdom is that it basically makes you a suicide bomber. How many U.S. Marines do you think would pull the pin on a grenade while they're on the ground dieing?"
News Flash. ITS A FUCKING VIDEOGAME"
That post didn't contribute anything. If you disagree, address it in a civilized manner
#50 Posted by Psytek (174 posts) -

A game mechanic that offers a potential  reward for failure is just stupid. It dis-incentivises people from playing properly/fairly, and punishes good players for using certain strategies (winning strategies).

If you don't think martyrdom is a problem, then that's nice for you. But for 99% of people who play games where winning is the (supposed) objective, features like martyrdom run counter to the whole idea of the game.

That's why I don't like martyrdom.

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