The Call of Duty franchise has always had a "problem" when it comes to its multiplayer spawn system. I have been holding my breath for the day that one of either Infinity Ward or Treyarch decides to take steps to address it. With Black Ops 2 it seems the latter of these developers has chosen to celebrate the problem rather than fix it. Half the kill cams I've watched since picking the game up on Monday night seem to involve players spawning on my immediate flank and barely taking a step before unloading a magazine into my torso. On average (I have actually done the math) I take about five steps from my initial position before encountering another player following death.

This morning I decided to see how long it would take for me to die were I to spawn and remain in that position without moving. 9 times out of 10 it was within 5 seconds.

I'm a Call of Duty fan within a community that seems pretty down on the franchise these days, so I know I am going to get a lot of "I told you so's" and whatnot. Regardless I've never really had a problem with the series that was crippling to the experience. Now I'm just finding it entirely impossible to have fun with the game. A few more days of multiplayer like this and I'll plow through the campaign and give this one back to GameStop.

I've heard the maps are smaller than in previous games, if it's true it probably doesn't help.

Watching that QL, you can definitely see the spawn locations are pretty terrible. On that boat level Jeff was constantly spawning either in front of or behind other players.

I experienced the same issue so after every kill I haul ass out of the immediate vicinity.

Yeah I am running into this too. Maybe once people become more familiar with the maps, this issue will go away.

It gets frustrating, but at the same time, if you are expecting it, then you need to be in the zone even when you are dead and about to respawn and get a move on!

you could try dying less often

I noticed this on the smaller maps, for sure, but I don't know if some of them were from tactical insertions or just plain bad spawning.

@thedj93 said:

you could try dying less often

And shooting that guy.

Yeah, this is a huge problem in this game. I don't remember past games being so bad about spawns.

Saw a video where they mentioned they log any death within 3 seconds of spawn and will adjust the spawn points with this information later.

I haven't had this problem. Luck?

Call of Duty is a twitch shooter so... dying is kinda par for the course.

I also have started to get frustrated with the amount of times I will spawn and then a second or two later I will get shot from behind. I think it is due to the faulty spawn system, but also all of the maps being so circular in the sense that you can pretty much get to the other side without even being detected most of the time.

I wish they would make more maps that were "progression" maps so to speak. That is, you can't just run to the edge of the map and follow that path to the other end around all the action, but rather you need to go through the action. Obviously that becomes harder once the spawns change, but still would help.

One time I spawned right behind a guy and stabbed him the second I respawned. That made me happy.

But generally I'm the guy spawning in front of other guys and getting messed up. That makes me less happy.

Anyway you slice it spawn killing is an issue, but it's the sort of thing I'd reckon they'd rectify in time.

Not a game breaker.

Call of Duty is a twitch shooter so... dying is kinda par for the course.

This goes back to the GoldenEye days. I just don't think developers have figured out a good solution for this.

Sounds like Call of Duty. 

On the smaller maps there's only so many places to set up spawns and I think it evens out really. It also forces you to think about angles and cover behind you more too. There are strategies that become apparent as you figure out the maps, but it's kaos mostly. Part of the fun though imo.

BUY BATTLEFIEL-- nah I'm kidding. This is actually the first Call of Duty since Modern Warfare that still has me intrigued after its been launched. Though not a lot. I might get it if it has something of a price drop on a Steam Christmas Sale. Battlefield 3 is awesome though.

@GERALTITUDE said:

This goes back to the GoldenEye days. I just don't think developers have figured out a good solution for this.

Lousy spawn points? I'm pretty sure that really isn't an issue in most popular modern FPSs.

@Snail Well I can't claim to have played the heck out of every single FPS that's come out in the last X years, but is there really a single one you think doesn't have this problem at all? I feel every single FPS (shit anything with a spawn point, FPS or otherwise) I've ever played either barely has this problem or has it in spades, none of them don't have it.

@GERALTITUDE: Most first person shooters have this issue, but in Black Ops 2 it's like a goddamn plague.

@Kombat: That's awesome/not awesome/hilarious.

Just from watching the Quick Look I could kinda get that feeling. So what's the problem exactly, small levels?

@GERALTITUDE said:

@Kombat: That's awesome/not awesome/hilarious.

Just from watching the Quick Look I could kinda get that feeling. So what's the problem exactly, small levels?

Very small. Just a bit ago I was killed, and there is this "gun lift" animation that plays when you first respawn. I was knifed in the back before that animation finished. Very frustrating.

I've been playing on PC and the spawns have been fine. The only time it gets a little dodgy is in the multi-team game modes.

@Kombat That seems bananas! And such an easy/obvious fix. It's so important to be able to shoot instantly after spawning.

@GERALTITUDE said:

@Snail Well I can't claim to have played the heck out of every single FPS that's come out in the last X years, but is there really a single one you think doesn't have this problem at all? I feel every single FPS (shit anything with a spawn point, FPS or otherwise) I've ever played either barely has this problem or has it in spades, none of them don't have it.

I wouldn't call this a problem in games like Battlefield 3 or TF2 - even if sometimes issues may occur, they are rare and avoidable enough that calling them a "problem" is a heck of an overstatement.

@Snail I don't know, I don't really get that They're rare and avoidable so we should just say they don't exist? If the problem barely affects the game in question, then it barely affects the game, and that's cool. I don't think "problem" is an overstatement in any case, but I also don't think it's such a bad bad negative world. It just means, like you said, that "issues may occur". It can be a huge problem or just barely a problem.

To try and wrangle this tangent back to the topic; it's worth noting that all games wrestle with this issue when we condemn Black Ops 2 for being a flagrant offender. It makes it more obvious what a "late game" mistake it is for BO2, but also highlights that games have a long history of dealing with this, both unsuccessfully, and successfully (BF3, TF2).

Is it as bad as this?

@GERALTITUDE said:

@Snail I don't know, I don't really get that They're rare and avoidable so we should just say they don't exist? If the problem barely affects the game in question, then it barely affects the game, and that's cool. I don't think "problem" is an overstatement in any case, but I also don't think it's such a bad bad negative world. It just means, like you said, that "issues may occur". It can be a huge problem or just barely a problem.

To try and wrangle this tangent back to the topic; it's worth noting that all games wrestle with this issue when we condemn Black Ops 2 for being a flagrant offender. It makes it more obvious what a "late game" mistake it is for BO2, but also highlights that games have a long history of dealing with this, both unsuccessfully, and successfully (BF3, TF2).

There's one thing that's just honestly confusing me: have you ever played Battlefield 3? I don't think I've ever had spawn point issues in that game.

The more I play, the more I feel it is just a consequence of all the maps being so damn small. And the fact that every building and every area has multiple entrances means there is no flow of combat, every spot can be reached pretty quickly.

Unfortunately I don't think there is a solution for that, except for making bigger maps in the future.

@umdesch4 said:

Is it as bad as this?

Not nearly that bad, in fact I never ran into anything close to that in the previous games.

In Black Ops 2 it is more of people spawning behind or near enemies, rather than people able to locate what seems to be the most common spawn point and camping it. There seems to be a decent randomization of where they spawn you, just a lot of the time it isn't a good spot.

The spawns can be shit, especially on Highjack, but with the levels being so small it's got to be hard to find an area with enough distance away from all the enemy players to safely spawn. As someone mentioned they are monitoring situations where you die within seconds of spawning, hopefully it will help but I can only see it making a marginal improvement.

@umdesch4 said:

Is it as bad as this?

That's a load of shit. I'm not going to say that the game doesn't have spawning issues, but nothing like that. That was set up somehow.

That video is a coordinated effort by a dedicated team to exploit the spawn system. I'm not saying this makes it ok, but keep in mind that doesn't occur for 99.9% of the players.

I am finding the Black Ops II spawns to be average. There are some games that turn into absolute clusters where its spawn, turn, fire, die, repeat, but for the most part I am not having that problem. I think the system now spawns you near a living player on your team, which helps considerably (and borrows directly from Battlefield).

Another thing I have noticed, in regards to the "circular" maps, is that many actually do have an A side and a B side, with the two teams meeting in the middle, in my opinion a first for CoD. But its true, Battlefield has got the "progression" map design correct, especially with the Rush game mode. While I personally prefer this type, I don't think that is what CoD is about. CoD purposefully intends to be more of an arena shooter.

As for getting shot in the back and on spawns, I also find that this decreases with playtime, which makes me believe that you can adjust your playstyle and increase your skill to compensate. While CoD is very twitch based, there is a level of map awareness and tactics that can help. When you spawn in, you should move immediately, not stand in place. You need to watch your back. Something my brother (a much better CoD player than I am) taught me is that a great way to avoid getting shot in the back is to keep moving forward. And yes, you need to learn the camping spots, the sniper perches, and the intersections where you can't watch your back.

Also, I haven't noticed nearly as many examples of spawn trapping (where one team is trapped in a corner and dies immediately on spawning) in Black Ops II as other CoDs. Battlefield, in fact, suffers from spawn traps more than Black Ops II. For those of us that don't always roll with a party, this is a key change. Sometimes you get a team full of random players who aren't very good, and getting spawn trapped meant you were screwed as well. I'm not seeing that in Black Ops II.

My main complaint with Black Ops II spawns is the kill streak (score streak?) spawn trapping. The lightning strike bombing run kills streak is perhaps too easy to get and then dump on the opposing spawn, killing a round of spawners every time. I think the main spawns on each side need to be protected from targeted kill streaks in some way.

While I don't think saying "It's CoD, you have to put up with this" is a legitimate answer, I do think saying "It's an FPS, you have to put up with this" is legitimate. The nature of these types of games is going to cause this. My take is that Black Ops II is one of the better answers to date.