Lag Compensation

#1 Posted by iAteBillyMays (12 posts) -

Does anyone know when Treyarch is planning to fix this? I've been playing COD online since COD2 for PS2, I'm definitely not a noob. I've gone from an average KDR of 1.5 on every title to a 1.14. I don't think I will be playing again till they decide to patch it up.

#2 Posted by xdaknightx69 (450 posts) -

i have been having the same problem recently, i was playing a game earlier and the kill cam showed me dying inside a room while i was outside. few games the guy just appears in front of me out of thin air or my shots just don't register. I'm not sure if its server or host based on PC but this is really pissing me off.

#3 Posted by vaportra1l (272 posts) -

Change your game search preferences from normal to best, fixed most of my problems.

#4 Posted by iAteBillyMays (12 posts) -

I forgot to mention I'm on Xbox 360. Am I able to do that? If so then how?

#5 Posted by ascagnel (78 posts) -
@xdaknightx69

i have been having the same problem recently, i was playing a game earlier and the kill cam showed me dying inside a room while i was outside. few games the guy just appears in front of me out of thin air or my shots just don't register. I'm not sure if its server or host based on PC but this is really pissing me off.

From what I can tell, they're using this weird lag comp system where they "rewind" time to the moment in the game the shots were fired. The problem is that a leggy connection will have a bigger time delta to when the server can reconcile the states, plus the inherent lag in transmitting that out again, which means you get plenty of "banana bullets" that seem to wrap around corners and follow you through walls.

The sad thing is that BlOps 1 was probably the last good CoD on PC, and will be if they keep going forward. So much about the menu system screams "console" with the PC as a pretty distant second thought.
#6 Posted by xdaknightx69 (450 posts) -

@ascagnel: yah that used to happen to me on BF3 all the time, i used to be in cover and then dead lol

#7 Posted by iAteBillyMays (12 posts) -

Me dying around walls isn't even what's bothering me, it's the fact that I can't seem to react in time to kill anyone in a face to face battle. It seems like Treyarch is punishing me for having a fast and stable connection so that the noobs with shit internet will stay happy and give them their money. It shouldn't be my problem that some little kid in Alabama can't kill anyone because his family pays $10 a month for internet and has 20 devices on the network.

#8 Posted by RubberFactory (288 posts) -

@iAteBillyMays said:

Me dying around walls isn't even what's bothering me, it's the fact that I can't seem to react in time to kill anyone in a face to face battle. It seems like Treyarch is punishing me for having a fast and stable connection so that the noobs with shit internet will stay happy and give them their money. It shouldn't be my problem that some little kid in Alabama can't kill anyone because his family pays $10 a month for internet and has 20 devices on the network.

Yep, I'm having the same problem. I don't remember it being this bad in previous CODs, then again the games only been out for a week. Hopefully it'll improve.

#9 Posted by ShinjiEx (625 posts) -

KDR is pointless 
 
Play and have a coke ^__^

#10 Posted by golguin (3964 posts) -

@iAteBillyMays said:

Me dying around walls isn't even what's bothering me, it's the fact that I can't seem to react in time to kill anyone in a face to face battle. It seems like Treyarch is punishing me for having a fast and stable connection so that the noobs with shit internet will stay happy and give them their money. It shouldn't be my problem that some little kid in Alabama can't kill anyone because his family pays $10 a month for internet and has 20 devices on the network.

Me losing a face to face fight really gets annoying when the kill cam shows me not shooting my gun and then dying despite having shot the guy enough to kill him during the actual gun fight.

#11 Posted by OldManLight (882 posts) -
#12 Posted by CatsAkimbo (635 posts) -

Here's a little guide I wrote up for my friends -- making these changes helped my lag a bit, no guarantees they'll help you guys. Any feedback or additional tips are welcome (I'm always looking to squeeze every last bit of speed out).

Use a Wired Connection

Every tiny bit helps, and even the best WiFi will drop a few more packets here and there compared to an Ethernet cable

Port Forwarding (keeping NAT open)

This ensures that game data using those port gets passed straight to your Xbox and doesn't bounce around and take any extra steps. You should already be doing this, but in case you're not:

  1. Start by setting a Static IP. Go to Xbox's connection settings, and at the part where you see the IP, write everything down or take a picture of the screen.
  2. Now select the IP info and hit "manual." Just copy back everything you wrote down, except change the last part of the IP to something else (149 is good -- it has to be under 150 and not already be taken).
  3. You'll then need to access your router and forward ports to that IP. Here's a list of guides by router type to open ports on the Xbox http://portforward.com/english/applications/port_forwarding/XboxLive360/
  4. In addition to those ports, it appears Black Ops 2 uses 3478,4379-4380, and 27000-27050, so you can try forwarding those as well.
  • You could just DMZ the IP (opening all ports), but that opens you up to be pinged or have someone attempt to connect to you by any port. It's doubtful anyone could actually mess with your xbox through open ports, but it could slow things down if they're hammering you.

DNS

DNS servers act as a bridge of sorts between you and whoever you're sending packets to, so finding the fastest one can speed things up.

After setting a static IP address for port forwarding, you just copied the same DNS settings, but there may be a faster DNS server you can use.

To find the best DNS server, Google has a nifty little tool to ping servers and recommend the fastest ones:

http://code.google.com/p/namebench/downloads/list

It takes a few minutes to run; just leave all the settings at default. You can also try changing the lower left option to check popular sites or use another browser. Once you have the two fastest DNS server IP's, just put them into the connection setup on the Xbox as primary and secondary (it's probably a good idea that at least one of them be a server you recognize like Comcast or Google, so there's little risk of both being down at once).

In the tool, you might've noticed some of the servers had warnings about google.com or something being "hijacked." This doesn't effect the Xbox but this is also why you should stick with a possibly slower, good DNS for your computer, like google's 8.8.8.8. This is just how some ISP's block sites like the pirate bay, so when you type in the pirate bay's URL, it goes through Comcast's DNS and then blocks you from accessing it by forwarding you somewhere else (Comcast doesn't actually do that currently as far as i know, but other countries definitely do).

For even more info (too much really) check out Optimizing Your Connection on the Xbox - The Elagaphant Strikes Back

#13 Posted by vaportra1l (272 posts) -

To change your search preferences when you click on find a public match, when you can select all the playlists, you should see "search preferences" in the lower right. Just hit X, change it from normal to best. It says it will take longer to find games, but I haven't had that issue, and it cleared up nearly all the lag issues I have. I do have a 50 meg connection so your mileage may vary.

Here's another page for this:

http://www.gamefront.com/black-ops-2-multiplayer-how-to-lower-lag-improve-hit-detection/

#14 Edited by OldManLight (882 posts) -

After i started hearing people toss around the term "buffer bloat" yesterday so i did some reading. Found something that is useful for anyone looking for a more technical approach. There's a setting that may be built into your router that could help prioritize traffic. Not all routers have it but it's known as "QoS" or quality of service. Some newer routers will automatically do this but for the ones that don't here's what i did using my old Linksys WRT54GS router.

  • Access your router's web interface, done by typing your router's IP into your web browser on a device connected to it (don't try to do it from your xbox)
  • If you have a feature on your router for QoS , enter your Xbox's MAC address into the QoS field, and set the priority to High (you may have to click around to find it or consult your owner's manual. mine was under gaming and applications)

What this does is any inbound and outbound network traffic from your router to your xbox will be executed at the highest priority thus lowering the affect of lag compensation because the less time that data spends getting from your network to whoever the host is for the game, the less the appearance of latency and the less lag compensation is a factor.

Please note that this won't work in all games. As a matter of fact, i tested it with gears of war 3 this morning and it actually introduced lag. I'm off to the store to upgrade my router to an wireless N with gigabit uplinks later since this one is pretty old and to see if that will resolve that issue. For normal my network traffic as well as matcmaking in halo reach, halo 4, and blops 2, i noticed a smooth connection with minimal latency. Very rarely after this did i have any instances of emptying a magazine at someone who i appeared to be aiming at and not getting the kill.

FYI my network speed is 10 Mbps down, 1 Mbps up so if anyone reading this understood any of what i posted above, it's worth a try.

#15 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

There are some good suggestions in here, and I too am having a bit of an issue with hit detection, being hit through walls, dumping an entire clip into somebody and getting nothing, or clearly knifing somebody, and somehow they get the drop on me.

I always assumed it was just different internet speeds, so it may move differently for some people which is why you see the Killcam showing you something different, (not shooting at all, barely hitting the guy, etc.). I had a problem back in the day with Modern Warfare and Gears Of War, because I was on a shitty connection, and so auto-matchmaking was nearly impossible. I have a much better connection now, but I fear I'm having a lot of the same issues I was previously.

#16 Posted by N7 (3595 posts) -

You guys have no idea how happy I am to see this. I can't even play Black Ops 2 online anymore because every time I actually go into a Firefight, I waste all of my ammo and die, only to see in the killcam I didn't even shoot(Despite getting hitmarkers and whatnot). One time it happened, we got a UAV and I noticed that there was an enemy coming my way, so I hunker down and aim at his general location. The second I see his shadow coming, bam, I'm dead. Whoa, did someone sneak up on me and kill me? Maybe from behind, or, or from the sides? Nope. Turns out he had been there for quite a while and actually had time to aim and line up a shot and blapblap me. I literally did not get to see him. I hit the select button and there it was, everyone had four green bars. No one was lagging. What the hell? No-lag lag!?
 
It happens constantly. I hear a lot of other people talking about it too and it's driving me up the wall. One of my favorite things to do in Black Ops was equip Hardline, Sleight Of Hand, and Marathon and go to town, not stopping for anything, racking my way all the way up to Blackbirds galore. But that is literally impossible for me now in Black Ops 2. I want to enjoy this game, but I cannot play for the lag compensation is bananas. B-A-N-A-N-A-S.
 
Also my connection is grand so I don't know what the deal is.

#17 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@N7: @iAteBillyMays: @xdaknightx69: @golguin: If you guys are still having issues, change your search preferences to "Best". I didn't think it'd make that much of a difference, but it has, and I've done a total one-eighty on this game. I looked at all of the times I was killed, and they were all legit and earned. There were no more firing around corners or through walls. They were all legit.

#18 Posted by N7 (3595 posts) -
@Napalm said:

@N7: @iAteBillyMays: @xdaknightx69: @golguin: If you guys are still having issues, change your search preferences to "Best". I didn't think it'd make that much of a difference, but it has, and I've done a total one-eighty on this game. I looked at all of the times I was killed, and they were all legit and earned. There were no more firing around corners or through walls. They were all legit.

YES. That and maybe open a DMZ on your router. I did the DMZ thing and now I literally have no problem, "best" preference or not. It feels good to actually "play" the game again, instead of dying a literal dozen times before getting a single kill. I'm actually, dare I say it, "beasting" again. This game is actually pretty cool now that I can enjoy it as a killer and not a victim.
#19 Posted by midnightgreen20 (65 posts) -

@Napalm: I've done that myself and nothing has changed a bit. If the game can't find a match with really low ping, it broadens the range until the game finds a match for you. With hundreds of thousands of people playing at a time, the game only finds about 2 or 3 matches with really low ping and doesn't even attempt putting me in them. That's an awfully low number of matches to fit in the best category, and I think part of the problem is that the search feature for the game prefers to get you into a game quickly rather than really work hard to get you into a match that falls underneath your preferences.

#20 Posted by OldManLight (882 posts) -

The only thing you can do at this point is make sure stuff on your end is good. Opening ports on your router for xbox live (as mentioned above) and making sure you're using a fast DNS server (also mentioned above) (side note, i use DNS Bench for finding the fastest public DNS server for me because the results are more consistent) http://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm

outside of that, i'm not sure if there's anything that can be done aside from patching their netcode which would take a while since they'd have to evaluate all the data being transmitted for games and seeing where they can trim the fat to make it faster.

My experience so far has been inconsistent as hell, i may hit a lobby where i'll do awesome for 5-10 games, then the next time i play, i die way more than i kill and can't seem to catch a break.

#21 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@OldManLight: My experience has been on and off ever since changing my search preferences. At some point I really think it's just another version of host advantage. I see a guy first, pump him full of shotgun rounds for four seconds and he just shoots me in the chest twice with a rifle and I'm dead. I feel like my games have been more consistent, but I still see funny stuff.

#22 Posted by umdesch4 (772 posts) -

@CatsAkimbo said:

  1. In addition to those ports, it appears Black Ops 2 uses 3478,4379-4380, and 27000-27050, so you can try forwarding those as well.

I'm reading elsewhere that the 360 version only uses TCP/UDP on port 3074 for black ops 2, but this seems very hard to believe. I'm hesitant to throw the whole box into a DMZ, so I'd prefer to do port forwarding. Anyone had any more experience with this?

I had an idea that may be worth checking out. I can see active internet sessions via my router. If I were to fire up a match, and check to see what new sessions are created, assuming I can differentiate which ones are for live chat stuff, maybe I can figure out a port range somehow. Has anyone tried this yet?

#23 Posted by kgb0515 (411 posts) -

From my understanding of lag compensation, it doesn't matter how good your connection is. In fact, lag comp actually penalizes you for having a good connection since it bases the level of compensation on those in the lobby who have slower connections. Changing the search option seems to help a bit, but I still see a fair number of people that get into lobbies with 2 or 3 bars which often makes for a frustrating match. The most recent update seems to have aggrivated the problem somewhat.

#24 Posted by CatsAkimbo (635 posts) -

@umdesch4: Yeah, all those ports might be overkill for the xbox version. I opened them all at once and started getting host a lot more often, so I don't really want to mess with it any more.

One more tip would be to restart your router before you start playing, especially with an older router. I have a netgear wg-something and last night i noticed I had a moderate NAT for some reason, even though my settings were perfect. A quick router reset fixed it, but weird things that happen like that are real disconcerting. I swear i'm becoming OCD because of messing with this stuff: check devices connected to router, turn off as many as i can, unplug router, count to 30, plug in router, start xbox, boot straight into multiplayer, tap every button 10 times, wash hands 3 times.

#25 Posted by CommanderZx2 (134 posts) -

There's nothing you can do to resolve this. The problem will never go away as long as the developers insist on relying on peer-to-peer servers rather than dedicated

#26 Posted by OldManLight (882 posts) -

Not sure if it's because of the "skill based matchmaking" or just general later in the day fatigue setting in but i notice myself doing WAY better in the AM than i do at night. I say the skill based thing since there's less people online then so i figure i'm more likely to get thrown into lobbies with dudes maybe not as good as me and that's why i do well but i have a much better time in the morning. MW3 got several patches related to lag compensation so i say give it time and it'll get worked out. I already feel like i'm starting to improve my play despite it. K/D and SPM stats both climbing steadily.

#27 Posted by SpudBug (632 posts) -

If you've done all you can to optimize your connection (open nat, best search settings, go wired - if you're wireless avoid interference by channel or wireless frequency) then it's probably actually not lag compensation, it's because you missed and you didn't notice it. Or the other guy just plain got the jump on you with dexterity or had better aim or a faster firing weapon. The game also seems to match you with similarily skilled players more often than prior games as well, making for closer firefights and harder won battles.

I see the complaints, everybody gets upset when they lose, and there are legitimate videos of strange hit detection things going on, but no online game is perfect - a certain level of "fudging it" has been in place since dialing up your buddy's phone number in doom 1.

When you're running circles around a 2D sprite firing rockets that move slower than you can run, it's not so noticable. In call of duty, when you can die in a fraction of a second from automatic fire, modern networking technology just isn't up to the challenge 100% of the time.

Fighting games have been struggling with this for years - most FPS games focus on more drawn out battles or having instant kill weapons be a special occurance or reward - Call of duty gives near instant kill ability to every player on the map.

The fact that the game performs as well as it does is pretty impressive, honestly. There's nothing you can do about how the game registers shots and misses - so stop complaining about it. If you like the game focus on learning the maps, vulnerable spots, and improving your aim or situational awareness. Call of Duty's maps are designed to make it hard to stay alive - that's the real challenge. Learning the maps and areas where you are vulnerable at all times (because you are always vulnerable in one way or another in this game, ALWAYS) and having better skill with aiming or shooting will go a long way.

#28 Posted by SpudBug (632 posts) -

@OldManLight: In a lot of ways Call of Duty is a slot machine. You can't cover all the ways someone can shoot you in the back at any given moment, you can't equip your character with a loadout that protects against every other loadout possible in the game, and you can't do much at all when scorestreaks start being used and come for you.

#29 Posted by VisariLoyalist (2995 posts) -

@SpudBug said:

@OldManLight: In a lot of ways Call of Duty is a slot machine. You can't cover all the ways someone can shoot you in the back at any given moment, you can't equip your character with a loadout that protects against every other loadout possible in the game, and you can't do much at all when scorestreaks start being used and come for you.

indeed, it's not meant to be a fair sport rather it's meant to be as addictive and satisfying to as many people as possible. Never knowing when or how you will be rewarded but knowing as long as you try you will be rewarded somehow is what makes it so successful. That being said it's just poor game design to see one thing happen and have another result.

#30 Posted by laserbolts (5331 posts) -

I'm done with Black Ops 2 the lag is horrible in this game. You guys saying that the game matches similarly skilled players have no idea what you're talking about. Every single match there are people on each team going like 1 and 15. I won't even get started on the spawns in this piece of garbage. There are maybe 2 good maps in the whole game and the rest are super unbalanced. I think I'll stick with Halo.

#31 Posted by VisariLoyalist (2995 posts) -

@laserbolts said:

I'm done with Black Ops 2 the lag is horrible in this game. You guys saying that the game matches similarly skilled players have no idea what you're talking about. Every single match there are people on each team going like 1 and 15. I won't even get started on the spawns in this piece of garbage. There are maybe 2 good maps in the whole game and the rest are super unbalanced. I think I'll stick with Halo.

dude you are bumming me the fuck out I just bought this game on steam xD

#32 Edited by SpudBug (632 posts) -

@VisariLoyalist: nah, don't listen to him. The maps are quite good, much better than MW3. It's hard to tell because i'm not as familiar with them as the black ops maps but I think they are not quite as good as those. But no other call of duty since 4 has been quite as good as the blops maps, imo. My biggest complaint is with domination - many of the maps have middle "B" points that are either heavily fortified and impossible to crack without teamwork ( which we all know isn't happening on pub games) or have a lot of clear lines of sight for multiple snipers to set up overlooking it.

It makes domination on this game very heavily momentum based - once you get two points locked down with a halfway decent team and heaven forbid the defenders are working together in a party - and the scorestreaks start coming in, it gets very difficult to make any sort of comeback because the B points are just too easily defended and the other point is most often where the enemy team is spawning so you're always going to have enemies close to that flag.

#33 Posted by midnightgreen20 (65 posts) -

http://www.examiner.com/article/black-ops-2-lag-compensation-fix-updated-guide-revealed-for-ps3-and-xbox-360

Basically, Activision says that it's our fault the game isn't working, and not theirs. Reading that is quite disturbing, because the #1 problem of that is simply that not everyone has the means to do what they suggest, meaning they may not have the most capable routers, etc. Bottom line is that they don't plan on really doing anything at this point on fixing lag compensation on their end, so it looks like we either suck it up and keep playing with the compensation, or just give up entirely because if they really were going to address it, they wouldn't put out such a message to people.

#34 Posted by OldManLight (882 posts) -

Feel like i ought to do a post mortem on this now that we're a month after launch. I tinkered with settings and my home network equipment for weeks trying to get the "optimal" network conditions for this game. Now i jump into matchmaking, i don't even tell search preferences to find the "best" connection for me and just leave that at "normal" and my connections have been stable and butter smooth for the most part. Sure there's people that get into my game that have crap connections or insanely good but they hardly seem to ruin the game as much as they used to. I'm gonna chalk all this up to launch hiccups. Anyone else still playing this game and having issues?

#35 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@OldManLight: I'm also still trying to figure out where the barrier is for some players. I'll walk into a game with everybody in the game having ten kills and fifteen deaths, and one guy has fifty kills and like ten deaths. Are lag switches common on consoles, or any other "hacks" for advantages? It just seems weird that there is that much of a gap between one player and everybody else.

#36 Posted by OldManLight (882 posts) -

@Napalm: i'm gonna say lag switches are not as common as people would claim they are and if people are using them, they're using them to such little avail that the game lobby will likely crash before it lets them run up the scoreboard, hacks are virtually non-existent at least the game breaking ones like you'd see on the pc (like less than 1% of the population of a game would even have access to them). My guess is the people you are running into that are stomping everyone are legitimately good players that have hit a hot streak against a team of average or less than average skilled players OR they are reaping the benefits of a stronger connection to whomever the host is. Just a fact of life with the way P2P matchmaking is done unfortunately.

#37 Edited by SpudBug (632 posts) -

The game is a random mess a lot of the time for close quarters stuff. That's just how it is. They really have no reason to care about the quality of the connections or netcode as long as the games keep selling. Plus the frustration/losing factor is part of the game design to keep you sucked into the game. If the game had consistent performance and quality of connection you'd never have those rage inducing moments that make you want to jump back in and do better.

People need to realize that this game is made to give you highs and lows, like a slot machine. The random highs you get from a good killstreak or a great game keep you playing and they feed you lots of bullshit and frustration that only increases your want to keep trying.

If you want to play a game where your skill and consistent performance matter, don't play call of duty. Play something like Counter Strike, Halo, Team Fortress, or Quake 3 Arena.

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