A Gem of a Jam: Capcom's Latest Street Fighter x Tekken Announcement Draws Predictable Ire

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#101 Posted by Commisar123 (1790 posts) -

I....I....I'm confused

#102 Posted by Example1013 (4834 posts) -

hahahatheydidthisalmost10yearsagoinDBZBudokai

#103 Posted by Twiggy199 (496 posts) -

Street Fighter X Tekken X Bejewled

#104 Posted by WarlordPayne (694 posts) -

I couldn't figure out why people would be outraged over the gem system until I got to the part where some of them would be pre-order bonuses and DLC. I can't believe they're going to be selling powerups in a competitive multiplayer game. I know they're supposed to be balanced and all, but there has to be some reason that a person would use them, and that person will have more choices in how to build their character than someone who doesn't pay or doesn't buy it at Gamestop, and that's screwed up.

#105 Posted by dudeglove (7688 posts) -

Euuuuughhhhhhhhhh. C'mon Capcom - if you can't get the fighting system right, at least make the online interface halfway decent. You've had about 3 games to do so.

#106 Posted by Fei (218 posts) -
@MindChamber what if there were pre-order perks and weapons in a call of duty game?
#107 Posted by BBQBram (2202 posts) -

When I first heard about the gems I thought, "neat, a little meta-game on top of the fighting". I can imagine it's gonna mess with tournament level game balance but for me, the casual fighting game player, it sounds alright!

#108 Posted by miva2 (225 posts) -

Capcom does release the best games imo.

I think the gem system is interesting but I don't see why they would implement it in a crossover title SFxT.

Wouldn't it be better to implement it in a Super SF or just SFV?

#109 Posted by NoelVeiga (1071 posts) -

Fighting games died the first time because they were impenetrable, and the terrible MvC3 already showed signs of starting that trend again. I, for one, couldn't be happier that Capcom is showing some foresight and adding some dynamic elements to bring new players into the fold without removing layers of depth from their games. It seems like a clever idea.

But hey, let the competitive scene whine if they must. They don't own gaming, and Capcom is more obligated to make their games fun for the rest of us than to cater to the few thousand high level players that would rather have a $20 million designed exclusively for them (but still will whine at having to pay full price for it).

Online
#110 Posted by phantomzxro (1565 posts) -

Don't buy this game! Wait until Super Street Fighter x Tekken Resurrection, I'm sure they will have all this fix by then.

#111 Posted by TheLastNeo (437 posts) -

Gems? Really?

Ugh... Im sure as with everything else on the internet, we'll just tolerate it, and still go out and buy it. It does seem like a weird ass mechanic to introduce in a cross over game, especially considering how many "systems" are already in place as far as the fighting game mechanics are concerned.

#112 Posted by Seroth (711 posts) -

The gems sound alright up until you get to the part that some will cost money. Sounds like an outright money grab, and it gets me wondering if the gems idea came out of a way to sell DLC or if that was applied to them later. Knowing Capcom, it was probably the former.

#113 Posted by Zerodash (19 posts) -

Bottom line: catering more to the so-called "casual" buyer will only help Capcom in the short term. It is the core fighting enthusiasts who will be the ones forming the long-term community around the game, and these are the ones who will be playing long enough and seriously enough to buy your DLC and not flood the market with used copies.

As far as I can tell, the best "win-win" situation regarding the gem system is to offer a default versus and ranked online mode that does not use the system.

#114 Posted by Dan_CiTi (3173 posts) -

I have seen the gems compared to trading cards and boosts/perks/whatever in MOBA games, but I still don't like it. There are ideas about the character customization aspect that are interesting and seem fun. Capcom could pull it off. Will it attract more people to the game? Probably not.

Also there is an idea that "the Ryu I am using is the same one Daigo is using." As well as "instead of practicing, adjusting, learning, and getting better at my character/the game, I will just buy a gem in order to beat this player." It is kind of sad and weird, though like many have said gems aren't that good, but still may just soften things a bit too much.

@DarkbeatDK said:

I'm getting flashbacks to the confusing -ism system of Capcom vs SNK 2. Seems like a good game, but feels unapproachable for a casual fighter like me.

Except there were 6 grooves in CvS2 which were pulled from existing games people knew and played already that had specific, always in-tact properties, abilities, and restrictions but there are supposedly hundreds of gems(including more powerful versions of the same kind I think) included in SFxT. I mean you can just not select gems...but still. Ugh.

#115 Posted by Dan_CiTi (3173 posts) -

@miva2 said:

I think the gem system is interesting but I don't see why they would implement it in a crossover title SFxT.

Wouldn't it be better to implement it in a Super SF or just SFV?

They try to keep the main-line games from being too crazy with very specific and complicated systems. They try to keep them grounded and "vanilla" in a sense. I am probably not explaining it as well as someone like Seth Killian could, but they try to keep the main games pure and not as experimental.

#116 Posted by SatelliteOfLove (1369 posts) -

 Two things:
 
#1. This is from the flood of Fighters made by Capcom over the last 3 years. History, doomed to repeat, yada yada.
 
#2. Fighter vets will still use this system to barnhole scrubs. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.
 
@DarkbeatDK said:

I'm getting flashbacks to the confusing -ism system of Capcom vs SNK 2. Seems like a good game, but feels unapproachable for a casual fighter like me.
You are the skittish fawn of the gaming forest, ever bolting at every snapped twig, at every unfamiliar smell. A gaming life of fear and worry.
#117 Posted by Tan (425 posts) -

Turn gems off, tournament scene saved. Done.

Yeah I agree they're a crappy way to help newcomers but not because of their complexity. Because they're not complex. Fulfill a condition, get the boost, simple. It's just that... it's not bridging any gaps between new and seasoned players if the new ones can't land good hits/combos/anything on the seasoned players. The things these games need is a TUTORIAL mode. Every fighter seems to miss this. Teach them magic series, teach them how to effectively block, give them tips on when to do certain things. Fighting games themselves ARE complicated to the inexperienced.

"... the action is nonetheless extremely competitive, fast, and thrilling, and not in that dumbed-down Marvel vs. Capcom 3 way, either." Also, 'the hell was this?

#118 Posted by tourgen (4427 posts) -

splitting a gameplay mechanic up into various forms of DLC? TERRIBLE business decision and terrible gameplay/design decision. They will pay for it at the cash register if this goes ahead as-is.

#119 Posted by The_Nubster (2047 posts) -

@MindChamber said:

I Dont see the problems with this Gems business. Just as someone said its like a perks system which doesnt look to break the game. Ive watched a few MvsC3 tournaments and basically the great players seem to build their team on that same idea. Its like they are creating one new character with the benefits of all characters combined.

granted they have to know how each character has to move and work in order to make that work, this gem system seems almost the same, except you don't have to learn a whole set of moves to utilize them.

Gems seem like a DLC of new characters , minus the characters, just their benefits. At least thats what Im getting from that video.

I had no idea Ultimate MvsC3 wasnt DLC though. Thier excuse to make SuperSSfIV seemed justified. So why didnt that apply here?

That's about the only thing I found grimey pertaining capcom and their new announcements.

If these gems are designed to give novice players a fighting chance, that means that they will be easy to pull off and have tangible benefits. Give these 'accessible' mechanics to someone who breathes this game and they become a dangerous weapon.

Just like perks, silent footsteps or no fall damage doesn't mean a thing to someone who doesn't know how to play the game. If you know the map, the guns, and all of the strategies, you can do some pretty devious things with those boosters. By adding in a new system that actually bolsters the player's health, damage, abilities, etc. and designing it to be easy to use, it becomes a tool for experiences players to destroy with.

Similarly, look at Mortal Kombat's super-meter equivalent. it does one- to two-thirds of someone's life, if not more. Sure, someone who is just mashing buttons might knock one off on a more experiences player and win that single match, but time and time again, someone with the right tools and mindset to properly use those devestating, match-breaking moves will clean up, simply because they're better at the game.

Anything that is designed to make the game easier or more accessible is going to be taken in, broken down and analyzed to its very core by serious players, calculating and measuring their use and discovering new and powerful ways to put them into play. Inexperienced players, well, they'll equip whichever ones sound cool.

#120 Posted by The_LMFAO_Guy (192 posts) -

Don't worry Capcom, you still have your apologist, they will always be there to suck your cock. 
 
I wonder how many users on Unity are getting unfairly banned right now for disagreeing with Capcom's idea, while the apologist are allowed to break the forum rules? 

#121 Edited by spartanlolz92 (511 posts) -

@RChan said:

Jared pretty much hit the nail on the head with his comments. Capcom (and other fighting game devs) seem to think these silly mechanics are the way to go to give lesser players a fighting chance, when the main issue is they don't know how to play the game in the first place and the only good way they can learn is to read up stuff on sites like shoryuken.com and tekkenzaibatsu.com or watch tutorials on youtube.

Now, while these are great resources for extra info, it should not mean that these devs get a pass on making the base mechanics of their game incredibly obscure within the game. This isn't like Demon's/Dark Souls beating the mechanics into your head in a rather timely fashion. This is people getting absolutely destroyed in 4 - 10 seconds when playing people better than them and learning nothing about what went wrong because important gameplay mechanics are completely hidden from them.

I've heard rumblings that Sega has a patent on its training mode from Virtua Fighter 4 EVO (which is exactly the kind of thing fighting games so desperately need). VF4 EVO happens to have the most in depth training mode to date where you can break down everything you need right to the frame. If it's true that they have a patent on this thing, it's all up to Skullgirls to show the other devs how it's done. They have made some pretty big claims about having a great tutorial mode.

Either way, great write up Alex. I look forward to seeing how this all plays out.

i want to like streetfighter and other fighting games but you are totally right all the basic mechanics are really obscure hell take a look at the moves list sf4 or on soulcalibur all needlessly complicated. like in soulcalibure four they replaced the controller symbols with abc in the move list or streefighter they replace the buttons with some other symbol. what i would like is training mode like mortal kombat where it shows you how to do the moves and take you through them stepp by step and the controls are not wriiten in another language.

sure it helps the noobs out and is prbly dumb to any fighting game master but it woulld make the game alot more accesible with out breaking it

#122 Posted by SpliTTMark (50 posts) -

for the past 50 years(sarcasm) ive wanted street fighter vs tekken. but now its just a circus act; cube purple this, gem that, cole this, weird cat things that.

whats next is poison going to start whipping bears in to shape

#123 Posted by dael (19 posts) -

Really good article. Capcom has a two edge sword. I am glad they listen to their fans and created a community that help develop their game or at least make you think you part of them. That is why they nerfing the twins. I wish when it comes to sequels more companies listen to the fans.

#124 Posted by AxleBro (798 posts) -

"not in that dumbed-down Marvel vs. Capcom 3 way, either" wow,

also, gems are kinda dumb, i think this is the first time i kinda saw where the ragers are coming from. take this big anticipated game. throw in something that could easily make it the worst most unbalanced capcom game ever. add pre- order exclusive power ups, dlc power ups, and special edition power ups. all to get more money from fans. i totally see where all the anger is coming from. its reaaaally sketchy

#125 Posted by AV_Gamer (595 posts) -

Make a new Darkstalkers already.

#126 Posted by vinsanityv22 (1064 posts) -

I have no problem with it, and look forward to using it. I found moves incredibly hard to pull off consistently in Street Fighter IV on my dual shock, both with the analog stick and the dpad. And while it wasn't much of a problem offline against the CPU, even hitting moves 90% of the time you want is enough to get you destroyed by real opponents. So I, personally, could use a bit of a boost. And I'm sure it would make the people I'm fighting against happier that this contest would be more interesting.

But I can tell you the easiest way to fix things. Just include an option to turn the damn feature off. And make sure online matchmaking includes options to search for it or not (or "no preference"). Boom. Make everyone happy.

And of course, it's important to gain some perspective here. We shouldn't complain, or champion it, until we actually play it for ourselves.

#127 Posted by HerbieBug (4212 posts) -

Buy Skullgirls instead. A vote for Skullgirls is a vote for quality and good times and happiness for one and all and you and I.

#128 Posted by upwarDBound (654 posts) -

I guess I'm failing to understand why these gems should be sold separately? Handicaps are fine, but monetizing them seems like a really bad idea.

#129 Posted by Poki3 (525 posts) -

I don't care about the gems... because I'm saving up my rage for when they announce Ultimate Street Fighter X Tekken.

#130 Posted by Eyz (451 posts) -

Guys! Guys, come on!

don't expect Mega Man any time soon :P

#131 Posted by Makoto_Mizuhara_Sakamoto (592 posts) -

These guys make us weeaboos tame in comparison.

#132 Posted by Xeiphyer (5595 posts) -

Presumably, if you don't want them, just turn them off and play without em.
 
Personally I think gems are a really interesting idea, they sound perfectly balanced, and are going to potentially have tons of effects on the game. It seems like they are similar to X factors, but smaller in power and varied, with multiple ways of activating them. Instead of having this huge damage boost awesome X factor, you can get a small boost in some stats or some secondary ability.
 
Seems cool.

#133 Posted by zombie2011 (4968 posts) -

The Gems seem like a bad idea kind of like X-factor.

#134 Posted by RoyCampbell (1096 posts) -

I still want Ace Attorney Investigations 2, damn it.

#135 Posted by Pixelzombie (87 posts) -

@Alex: How is Marvel vs Capcom 3 extremely competitive, fast, and thrilling in a dumbed-down way?

#136 Posted by soupbones (283 posts) -

I love Capcom and this game is great.

#137 Posted by StarvingGamer (8000 posts) -

I just reread this article and was sad to see no comments about how the gem system is outrageous. Truly, truly, truly... outrageous.

Opportunity missed IMO.

#138 Posted by Lunar_Aura (2779 posts) -

@AV_Gamer said:

Make a new Darkstalkers already.

Or, you know, don't. That's an IP I actually like. Can't trust Capcom to not fuck that up either.

#139 Posted by Norusdog (340 posts) -

Capcom already sickened me with their bullshit re-re-releases of games for $30-40. Ultimate Special Super Ultra Turbo Edition Street Fighter IV...$40...has TWO new characters!

fuck capcom. This just adds more fuel to an already raging fire. Street Fighter WAS my favorite fighter of all time. But their sickening re-releases for close to full price for miniscule improvements is absolutely insulting.

And if any of you think these "gems" aren't meant to be a nickel-and-dime model you're delusional. the ONLY way they won't be now is because of the backlash they're getting over it.

Stop bending over for this bs company and they'll stop shoving it in deeper each time.

#140 Posted by Enigma_2099 (146 posts) -

Well, I'll be skipping this one. Also I find it hilarious that they keep doing things to piss people off, and can't understand why people think they keep doing things to piss them off. As for MML3... normally I don't get THAT upset about game cancellations unless I really dig the game, but what they did to that one...

"Gameplay mechanics like Gems are a lot like giving a civilian a sniper rifle," he added. "Yeah, they might shoot someone's eye out but they lack the tools to maximize its potential. Put it in the hand of a trained soldier, however, and the damage that weapon can inflict is far more significant. So while you can argue that a Gem like auto-block or some sort of massive power buff may make things easier for a new player to mount a convincing offensive; just imagine when you give those same tools to the likes of Justin Wong or Daigo Umehara."

You're not going to get a better explanation of what's wrong with this, so don't bother looking.

Making matters more complicated, several packs of gems will be released as retailer-exclusive pre-order bonuses, or as exclusives with the Special Edition release of the game. Others may be released as DLC, causing some to accuse Capcom of creating the system as a ploy to force players to pay their way to victory.

Naaah.. just the typical greedy nickle-n-dimin'...

#141 Posted by probablytuna (3535 posts) -

Why gems?

#142 Posted by Brackynews (4045 posts) -

My facepalm comes down to the people that will, without an ounce of irony, declare that Capcom did or should "nerf gems".

Oh, video games.

(Jared is CM for all of Twitch.tv? Grats duder. That's a match-three. ;)

#143 Posted by AgileNate (102 posts) -

Capcom as a developer is great. However, Capcom as a publisher is a nickel-and-dime, non effort remake creating, hope crushing, money maker.

I almost went and bought a 3DS just for Mega Man Legends 3(and would have) till I heard of the cancellation. I am sure there were many who shared my idea and actually went through with it. Good thing both Nintendo's habit of re-designing their handhelds and Capcoms lack of interest in Mega Man Legends cautioned me on buying a 3DS. Now I wait for Nintendo to show off a 3DS with a built in dual analog system.

#144 Posted by Nomin (964 posts) -

DLC super moves and even special moves. What will they come up with next? DLC credits?

#145 Posted by YukoAsho (2001 posts) -

@Xeiphyer said:

Presumably, if you don't want them, just turn them off and play without em. Personally I think gems are a really interesting idea, they sound perfectly balanced, and are going to potentially have tons of effects on the game. It seems like they are similar to X factors, but smaller in power and varied, with multiple ways of activating them. Instead of having this huge damage boost awesome X factor, you can get a small boost in some stats or some secondary ability. Seems cool.

That's the thing. Capcom has made it clear that you can't turn off gems or filter them out of online matches. If you could, I doubt anyone would be raging.

And let's all be real here, of course the pay-to-unlock gems are going to be the most powerful ones, and will likely be part of Super Mega Ultimate SFxT.

#146 Posted by VengefulGiblets (13 posts) -

Pay to win. I'm sure it'll be a hoot when they sign in to "deal pwnage" to the "losers" who haven't paid as much money as they have, only to QQ over the frustration of playing against their own kind. You lot have fun with that mess.

This was going to be a day one purchase for me, but there's no way in hell that I'm spending money on it after this gem business.

#147 Posted by Mihos (46 posts) -

This game sounds exhausting. I guess as long as the match making is good and only puts me against other people that suck as much as I do, it could be fun..... maybe

#148 Posted by P_Albatross (4 posts) -

@Scarabus: Arcade Edition was supposed to be less balanced. The idea (this is something that Ono said a long time ago) is that unbalanced games foster more vocal local scenes and 'old school' arcade communities. This is something Capcom wanted to promote. It kind of makes sense, it was called 'Arcade Edition' after all BUT it didn't suit console gaming. It was designed primarily for the Arcades and Capcom said that all along. It also gave them a tidy reason to keep SFIV going with the 2012 balance patch which is arriving next year, funnily enough.

The problem I see with pre-order and DLC gems is this: in tournament play, do you allow all gems? And if so, how do you make sure you have all the gems on the console being used at the tournament, so that everyone has access to them? Or do you bring your own gems? It does add some big complications on the surface, though the gameplay mechanic itself is not so bad necessarily. There seem to be so many separate gameplay mechanics in SFxT that I almost feel they have to drop something before release.

#149 Posted by kamfair55 (11 posts) -

some of these ppl especially these tournament players seem really selfish not every game is gonna be tailored to them there are some ppl out there that may need auto block or whatever and no im not one of them im just saying you have to think about other ppl who are not as good but still want to play and whats all the complaints for the gem system it sounds similar to the marvel fighting game that had the infinity gems in it and nobody had a problem with it then and if tournaments do not like the gems then simply ban them or dont

#150 Posted by mr_shoeless (381 posts) -

Good article Alex.

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