Its still a heavily anime inspired game so anime tropes make there way into the game left and right but as far as the main center points of  dealing with sex and vincents relationships  I feel the game does a pretty good job.  Obviously Catherine is sexed up  but  honestly she has to be because she has to be a believable seductress.   As far as I know  and I'm on night 4-5?    The game never shows actual nudity nor sex which I honestly applaud because it would have been easy to show boobies and try to come up with some excuse to justify it like so many movies with un needed nudity do. 
 
Also anyone find the confession booth questions interesting?  Not that I think its a scientific way to do it by a long stretch but its interesting to see what the overall opinons  of these things are from everyone who answered.

Anne May

Nudity is never unneeded

No, not really. 
 
I've been cursing at my screen, actually. Yelling "FUCK YOU VINCENT, FUCK YOUUUU", because no sane adult would make those kinds of stupid decisions. I completely wrote off Vincent as a character after the third night. How the hell can he still be nice to the girl who is clearly complicating his life? How can he still be drinking at the same bar after waking up next to Catherine for the third night, with the same routine of going to the bar, for the three nights? If he really doesn't want Catherine, he should just come out and be honest, then tell her to get the fuck out. But no, Vincent is still nice to her and could never stand up and tell the truth. He's portrayed as spineless, excuse-spewing liar and keeps digging his grave with his mouth, in service of the script. Because if he actually takes a stand, and deals with Catherine on the first few days, we would have a very, very, very short game. 
 
It was around the 6th day, when Vincent asks Katherine about a "Steve" that really rubbed the salt on the wounds for me. It was amazingly dumb how much he digs his own grave in front of Katherine with the dumbest excuses I've heard an "adult" say. I was actually grateful that 6th night at the bar (I think it was the 6th night) when Erica points out "maybe you shouldn't be here drinking at the bar" when Vincent expresses how much he doesn't want to lose Katherine, assuming you go the "moral route". I was shouting, "thank you, Erica, thank you". Any responsible and sane person would change their behavior after they encounter a screw-up. 
 
And as for the confessional, they can get really hokey and skewed with that shit. Apparently, I got deducted my "good" points for being generous. The question goes: Have you ever been called 'stingy'? So... by saying that I'm generous, I'm bad? Because I'm reckless with money? 
 
The first confessional question I got really showed me how skewed this "personality test" is. It was the one that asked: Is marriage the beginning or end of life? While I agree with the sentiment that truly treasuring somebody to last a lifetime is truly priceless, that question could not be any more skewed to one direction.
 
Then there was a question another sheep asked you: Do you answer honestly at the confessional or do you give the answer that sounds 'right'? I said: I answer honestly. And CLEARLY answering honestly is a bad thing, because I got docked my good morality.

No, I'm not since that was what they were saying their goal was since the beginning. And yeah, the game addresses relationships with maturity, but I would have preferred it if they made more of an effort to demonstrate why Vincent's so indecisive when it comes to his relationship issues. How it is in the game, it creates a jarring disconnect between the player's choices and Vincent's reactions and actions. 
 
And I find the concept of the confession booth questions interesting, but the execution is flawed. From the get-go, several players won't be answering honestly because they want to end up with one girl or the other and the polls are made even more unreliable since they track what players answer during their subsequent playthroughs, which is dumb since most players will go for dishonest answers after their 1st playthrough because they want to see the other endings. 
 

I think this game got so much hype because people thought it was going to show boobs.  I think there are a lot of disappointed buyers out there who didn't do their research first.

No i'm not impressed because i've already played Witcher 2 :)

And to say, that most men would have a hard time rejecting their dream girl if they are already in a relationship, is to give credence to the fact that most men think with their crotches. Which, to an extent, is very true, which is why the stereotype exists. But even a man in that situation should already be aware of his stand and choices.

No, not really.  I've been cursing at my screen, actually. Yelling "FUCK YOU VINCENT, FUCK YOUUUU", because no sane adult would make those kinds of stupid decisions. I completely wrote off Vincent as a character after the third night. How the hell can he still be nice to the girl who is clearly complicating his life?"

I was very impressed with how they handled Erica.

Other than that, no. Catherine tackles themes that most games don't go near, but the writing isn't good enough to follow those themes through. Still, credit where credit's due.

It may be flawed, but it's certainly far more mature than many games that claim to be.

No, not really.  I've been cursing at my screen, actually. Yelling "FUCK YOU VINCENT, FUCK YOUUUU", because no sane adult would make those kinds of stupid decisions.

  He's portrayed as spineless, excuse-spewing liar and keeps digging his grave with his mouth, in service of the script. Because if he actually takes a stand, and deals with Catherine on the first few days, we would have a very, very, very short game. 
 

@FluxWaveZ: Sure, point taken. But consider this: it's colored blue and red, and called "Chaos" and "Order". One leans for Katherine, and the other leans for Catherine. How does one not make a morality association with that? I think everyone subconsciously would. On top of that, I didn't watch the Quicklook EX, but that only means I have to wait for the end of the game to see what the actuality of my decions are representing.

@ikabubu: I think it's definitely handled maturely, but, I agree that I don't think it's written as well as it could be.  Frankly, I wish the game had a more unified story.  My beef is that the "morality" meter doesn't match up with the story.  If I am 100% blue, as in all Katherine, the story doesn't reflect that at all.

@Cornman89

I was very impressed with how they handled Erica. Other than that, no. Catherine tackles themes that most games don't go near, but the writing isn't good enough to follow those themes through. Still, credit where credit's due.

I was very impressed with how they handled Erica. Other than that, no. Catherine tackles themes that most games don't go near, but the writing isn't good enough to follow those themes through. Still, credit where credit's due.

I think people have been expecting the wrong things from the game here.
 
Vincent isn't  "you". He isn't supposed to be a player avatar, or wish-fulfillment like 99% of protagonists out there. As much as idiot as he might be, the fact that he texts Katherine and replies to her affectionately and then turns around and fucks Catherine the next day........Is not inconsistent with his character at all. He's whishy-washy and indecisive. He changes his mind all the time and isn't sure how he feels about a lot of things in his life.
 

@Cornman89 said:

I was very impressed with how they handled Erica. Other than that, no. Catherine tackles themes that most games don't go near, but the writing isn't good enough to follow those themes through. Still, credit where credit's due.

Hmm? What about Erica? She works at a bar and for some reason the gang is really awkward when it comes to Toby wanting to screw her. Aside from that I dunno what you're going on about ^_^

I don't need him to be "me", but I think it's terrible that I'm given choices that are completely ignored.  I would much rather that whole system be removed and just write the story.  Hell, they basically COULD just lift it out from what I can tell.

@mutha3: The way it handles adult-themes, yes. The plot and script, I have contentions with that.

@Cornman89 said:

I was very impressed with how they handled Erica. Other than that, no. Catherine tackles themes that most games don't go near, but the writing isn't good enough to follow those themes through. Still, credit where credit's due.

I don't see what the quality of the writing has to do with that, though?   For whatever flaws you consider the story to have, how does it take away from the fact that it approaches it themes with a sense of class ? (HERP DERP BOXART aside!)

@mutha3 said:

@Cornman89 said:

I was very impressed with how they handled Erica. Other than that, no. Catherine tackles themes that most games don't go near, but the writing isn't good enough to follow those themes through. Still, credit where credit's due.

I don't see what the quality of the writing has to do with that, though?   For whatever flaws you consider the story to have, how does it take away from the fact that it approaches it themes with a sense of class ? (HERP DERP BOXART aside!)

I mean that there are elements of the script that undermine what Catherine tries to accomplish, thematically. The game can approach maturity all it wants, but I don't give out points just for effort. Execution matters.

@ikabubu said:

@mutha3: The way it handles adult-themes, yes. The plot and script, I have contentions with that.

Fair enough.   To be honest, I have my own problems with the game's narrative myself. Its still a videogame afterall! I just don't think Vincent being a scumbag is one of those issues.  

I think this game got so much hype because people thought it was going to show boobs.  I think there are a lot of disappointed buyers out there who didn't do their research first.

 
Your choices aren't ignored, though? It affects what he thinks and the text messages you get back, and most importantly of all, it affects how his character arc concludes. The Vincent in the True Lovers ending is an entirely different Vincent than the one in the true freedom ending....due to your choices.   Also, why doesn't stuff like ME get flak for shit like this? Your choiches are about as pointless there! Only difference is that Catherine actually has 8 different, meaningfull ways in which the story can end instead of slight, pointless variations.

@ikabubu: One of the criticisms I've seen from others and you echoed a while ago is that if Vincent really is interested in and committed to saving his relationship with Katherine, he wouldn't be back at the Sheep, drinking too much, or doing other self-destructive things. While I think there are flaws with the game and how the story has played out so far (about to start night 4, so I know I have a lot to learn), this seems to be a strong point to me. We're picking this story of Vince and Kat up at the end-game. Going to the Sheep is clearly a habit from way before "Night 1," and it's human nature to look to the familiar and comfortable in times of great stress. I'm 29, I spent 6 years in a long term relationship, and there's little as stressful as the Big Conversations you have as these things are playing out to one of the two inevitable conclusions. I feel like that part of Vincent is a great bit of writing and scripting.

As to some of the complaints about Vincent professing his love for Kat and repeatedly sleeping with Cat, I think it was mutha3 who pointed out he's a character. I think it's far more common that if, regardless of professed devotion, we take a stressed, confused, late-20s to early 30s male and present him with an idealized, willing, hypersexual companion...you're going to have a lot more people making decisions they very deeply regret later. And just because you regret something doesn't always mean you're not going to do it again for any one of various reasons.

So yeah, I've been pretty happy with the maturity level and look forward to wrapping the game up this week. It's far from perfect, but it has a 3 or 4 star feel from me because I'm pretty invested in the story and how it's being told.

I think it is sad that a medium that is as established as video games can surprise people by being 'mature'.

Pretty sure they removed her nipples. That's what a friend of mine said. Which sounds very not mature to me. Kinda tired of people thinking that needs to be done in an M rated game.

I think it is sad that a medium that is as established as video games can surprise people by being 'mature'.

@Cornman89 said:

I was very impressed with how they handled Erica.

I'm actually completely on the opposite thought with how they handled Erica. She's the biggest disappointment in the entire story to me because she's almost used as a joke at the end of the game (at least for the full blue ending). Unlike C/Katherine who are supposed to be the embodiment of chaos/order, she actually has a balance which should make her interesting female character in the game, and has an... issue which would sound like the kind of thing that the Persona Team would be chomping at the bit to explore, but they don't. If they handled her with half of the deftness they handled a character like Kanji, she could have been one of the more interesting characters I've ever seen in a video game, instead she's a HUGE wasted opportunity.

@JasonR86 said:

I think it is sad that a medium that is as established as video games can surprise people by being 'mature'.

Video games is an established medium, not a mature one. 

@Daroki said:

@Cornman89 said:

I was very impressed with how they handled Erica.

I'm actually completely on the opposite thought with how they handled Erica. She's the biggest disappointment in the entire story to me because she's almost used as a joke at the end of the game (at least for the full blue ending). Unlike C/Katherine who are supposed to be the embodiment of chaos/order, she actually has a balance which should make her interesting female character in the game, and has an... issue which would sound like the kind of thing that the Persona Team would be chomping at the bit to explore, but they don't. If they handled her with half of the deftness they handled a character like Kanji, she could have been one of the more interesting characters I've ever seen in a video game, instead she's a HUGE wasted opportunity.

I dunno, it's not like she was an integral part of the story (necessarily, this was Vincent's tale after all) and if they really wanted to get deep into her types of issues, it'd probably be better served in the next Persona or something. I also don't think they treated her like a joke, necessarily, because even when Toby said that line at the end she took it with stride so it must not have been that big of a deal anyway, and the rest of her friends treated her with respect (not mentioning it to Toby, etc)

of course, since I am similar, and looking at what the rest of the game industry is, I take what I can get :P

You know, I've tried to think about this and I've come to a realization; I don't think that makes any sense at all.

@JasonR86 said: 

You know, I've tried to think about this and I've come to a realization; I don't think that makes any sense at all.

I mean that it's fully recognized as an entertainment medium, but they've only existed for what? 40 years? Film's an established medium that is also mature because they've existed for more than 150 years.

That's not even remotely related to the OP man.  That's not the 'mature' I was referring.  It sounds like you just want to be confrontational for confrontations sake.  Why can't we just be buds bud?

@JasonR86 said: 

That's not even remotely related to the OP man.  That's not the 'mature' I was referring.  It sounds like you just want to be confrontational for confrontations sake.  Why can't we just be buds bud?

Hey, I'm not trying to argue here. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be that much of a surprise when a game actually turns out to be mature, in the sense that it approaches adult themes in a serious manner, when the medium as a whole isn't mature, in the sense that it's pretty young.

@Hailinel said:

It may be flawed, but it's certainly far more mature than many games that claim to be.

Pretty much this.