Erica Anderson, Tomboy? :) (SPOILERS!)

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#51 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19354 posts) -

@Catolf said:

Back OT: I kinda hope to see more Erica's in the future in gaming.

Considering Atlus' trend with Persona 4 (Kanji, Naoto) and Catherine (Erica), I'm almost expecting a similar issue to be tackled in Persona 5.

Of course, seeing similar situations in other non-Atlus games would be less expected. I kind of feel as though we could only see themes like these from Japanese developed games and not from Western titles.

#52 Posted by shodan2020 (672 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Turambar said:

Is also world weary, responsible, and a dedicated father. Still probably my favorite character in the game.

Sure, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the characteristics that I'd like to see omitted from a character of his skin color in a JRPG.

@Turambar said:

is there any part of the game that actually states clearly that Erica is transexual, and actually discusses that as an actual plot point?

No, but her being a transsexual is extremely obvious once it is implied in the True Lovers ending. There are several hints throughout the game as proof. Examples:

  • Vincent saying that they wouldn't allow her to be part of a woman's wrestling league,
  • Orlando's uneasiness when Toby talks about his sexual encounter with Erica
  • The fact that she was known as 'Eric' in their childhood
  • Erica saying something like "I know how a woman's heart works" and Vincent replying jokingly "I would trust that if it were coming from a woman", which angeres Erica.

There are a few more as well.

That's why I felt extremely "sheepish" pardon the pun, about stumbling on that obvious fact a day later... on the profile page that I was going to update with what I thought was new info. It was just misunderstood info. I also thought I should share, because... well it's fun. :)

#53 Posted by WatanabeKazuma (989 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

Yes.

And Kainé (although that isn't quite the same since she's a hermaphrodite, not transsexual).

@Brodehouse: Yeah, but the next social "thing" I'd like to see them tackle is race. In Catherine, every single character is white and the same goes for Persona 3 and Persona 4 (with the exception of maybe a couple of characters). Perhaps Persona 5 could have the first black dude in a JRPG who isn't stereotyped or something.

'Technically' Catherine is black st some point in the story (the whole Steve side-story) but that's only ever referred to and never shown. I know what you mean though, I struggle to think of any other characters off the top of my head.

Actually scratch that, Morgan.

#54 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Brodehouse: Yeah, but the next social "thing" I'd like to see them tackle is race. In Catherine, every single character is white and the same goes for Persona 3 and Persona 4 (with the exception of maybe a couple of characters). Perhaps Persona 5 could have the first black dude in a JRPG who isn't stereotyped or something.

Done and dusted. :P

And as previously mentioned in this thread there are tons of hints to Erica having been a man.

Vincent's comments about her not being allowed in a women's wrestling league and how he'd trust the advice of a "real" woman are pretty overt in retrospect. But the dealbreaker is really how she starts having nightmares after having had sex with Toby.

#55 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19354 posts) -

@WatanabeKazuma said:

'Technically' Catherine is black st some point in the story (the whole Steve side-story) but that's only ever referred to and never shown. I know what you mean though, I struggle to think of any other characters off the top of my head.

Actually scratch that, Morgan.

I know the moment you're talking about, but it's only really said that Catherine isn't white. It doesn't say that she's black. Not that the color matters too much, but that's still a pretty insignificant moment in regards to the theme of skin color.

And yeah, there's Morgan Cortez who seems Latin American. That's something, I guess.

@TeflonBilly: There's debate about Sazh, but if Funky Student is meant to be black, I think his character's even worst in regards to this topic.

#56 Posted by WatanabeKazuma (989 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ: I never considered Funky Student to be black, is he?

#57 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19354 posts) -

@WatanabeKazuma said:

@FluxWaveZ: I never considered Funky Student to be black, is he?

I didn't think of him as black, so I'll say no.

#58 Posted by shodan2020 (672 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@WatanabeKazuma said:

@FluxWaveZ: I never considered Funky Student to be black, is he?

I didn't think of him as black, so I'll say no.

I always thought of him as some sort of funky awesome mix. Doesn't really matter though, he's dropping sick knowledge on our collective ignorant asses. :)

#59 Posted by mutha3 (4985 posts) -

@WatanabeKazuma said:

@FluxWaveZ: I never considered Funky Student to be black, is he?

He is Inaba born and raised....

.....So I doubt it.

#60 Edited by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

I was kinda being factitious when mentioning Funky Student. Though he does have quite a darker shade of pigment going on so either he tans alot or he's ganguro. Or maybe there's a little mocha in the milk, so to say

#61 Edited by Kera_Reaver (5 posts) -

[SPOILER ALERT... well, maybe there's no point, anymore. ^^]

Hi, guys

I finished the game once and got the good lovers ending.

Playing the game, I truly loved Erica's character. I'm an MtF, too. So, I was pleased to see us represented by a nice, deep character, with - in my opinion - a beautiful personality and lots of charisma, for a change... since almost every videogame or movie treat us like nothing more than laughing material. I was really happy about that.

I understood she was an MtF pretty soon, because I started suspecting it near the beginning, when she said that she had a nice pair of Stiletto heels and that she knew how to use it. Not only that, but also the fact that she enjoyed to talk about women's psychology and feelings, willingly trying to explain them to the guys. Our femininity is something we're very proud of, so most of us like to talk about it and to explain some things, to those who are willing to listen.

Then, I knew I was right, later on, thanks to the dialogues with and about her being filled with many hints. Some of them are kinda blunt, if you ask me, especially when Vincent told her that he would have preferred to here the words she said, coming from a woman. I thought "Geez... what an ass!", but still, without those hints, I guess nobody would have ever guessed that she's an MtF. Those hints made Erica's character even more interesting, entertaining and, from my point of view, charismatic.

Then, I heard about the true lovers ending and the gag about Erica and Toby. Well, it tickled my curiosity and since I'm already playing the game for the second time and going for the true cheater ending, I just watched it on youtube.

Well, maybe they're overexaggerating things, giving Erica a malish behavior that she doesn't have, during the game. (Although it's not just her: everyone seems to behave in a slightly different way, in this ending... maybe it's just the Champagne. ^^) But, what I truly think is that she's doing that on purpose, to pick on Toby. From my point of view, it's not Erica and her being an MtF that the developers wanted to laugh at, but Toby and his being too much carefree, daydreaming and soooo unconcerned by his friends' nightmares. Toby's not a bad person. He's got his own dreams, like anybody, and he seems to be the type that falls deeply in love, which is pretty cute. ^_^ But, throughout the whole game, he's kinda laughing at his friends problems, thinking that nothing will ever happen to him, that his life will be perfect, and he's not being of any help to them. So, I think the developers wanted to say "My little Toby, life is full of surprises and you can't decide how everything will turn out, on your own, whether you like it or not." ^_^ Anyway, Erica doesn't seem offended at all, by Toby's reaction. And, about him, despite what he says, he certainly does look comfortable with her arm around his neck. So, I think he's just acting this way, because he's a little upset about the fact that Erica kept her secret hidden from him, but he's still got the girl of his dreams. So, I think things will work out, for them. ^_-

Now, about people who think that Erica's behavior is unfair and that she shouldn't have kept it secret from Toby: well, let me tell you what i think. We are females, no matter the body we were born into, our gender identity is female. That's the way we feel, that's the way we think, that's the way we are, and it's not something that comes from some sexual fantasy. Simply, our mind and our body doesn't agree at all. They're in constant clash and we suffer a lot because of that. So, we put ourselves through a "transition" that even put our own health in danger, just to be able to be ourselves. It's either that or not living our lives at all.

So, when you're dating one of us, you're dating a girl. There's nothing to be afraid of: we're not gonna suddenly turn into boys, while you're sleeping. :-P We DO have one big issue, though: we are sterile. And that's the main reason why i think we should never keep it intentionally hidden in the first place, especially from someone you're starting dating. The other reason is that I think that sincerity is always the best base for a good relationship... but, well, it's my personal opinion. ^^

That said, i do understand why some of us prefer to keep it hidden, too. Some had really bad experiences in the past, that they want to forget about. So they don't want to tell others about it, because they fear that the same thing will happen again. (and it seems that Erica did have one of those experiences, and although it looks like she has overcome those bad memories, maybe a part of her tells her to be careful.) Then, there are other persons' clichés and prejudices that may force you to do so. I mean: when you're an MtF, you might have the chance to be surrounded by friends who knows and who accept you for who you are. They might even be very supportive. But, when it comes to love and romance, well it's game over before it even starts. You're cut off. They don't even give want to know you better. No matter how much a guy has a crush on you, as soon as he knows that you had once a male body, you stop meaning anything to him. You're the girl of his dreams, he would do anything for you, he's drooling all over the place and, five seconds later, you're as much as an empty can that has to be disposed of. So, that's why some of us want their boyfriends to know their worth, their good points, before telling them.

Now, to end, this veeeery long post (sorry! ^^'''), I just want to clarify one thing: MtFs are females. Addressing us by "he" or saying things like "OMGZZZZ, it's a dude!" is offensive. I'm sure a lot of people just don't know and don't mean to be offensive... but, believe me, it's not nice at all. So, try to be kind, ok? ^_^

Honestly, I read many interesting, respectful and open-minded comments, in this topic. That's good to see, thanks! ^_^

#62 Posted by TooWalrus (13219 posts) -

Just finished Catherine... I was wondering why Erica was having the nightmares too... Dude, I fuckin' loved this game (even if it got frustratingly hard in a few spots).

#63 Posted by Dtat (1623 posts) -
@shodan2020 Wow. That's actually awesome! I didn't realize that they did that. We tend to think of jrpgs as Immature but it seems to me that the persona team is years ahead of american devs in social maturity. The fact that there was a transgender character and I didn't even reAlize it is pretty incredible.

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