Is Catherine... Offensive?

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#1 Posted by alevan (31 posts) -

Question, how is Catherine offensive?

Recently read a kotaku article and it quotes a tweet where someone says "it's the most offensive thing she's ever played". Seems a bit extreme, but there must be a reason she said that.

I've played Persona 3 and 4 and will eventually pick it up (when it gets cheaper) but I want to know what I'm getting into before I get it. Just by looking at the cover and trailers it looks over sexualized, but is it/what makes it an offensive game? Never heard that it was before.

http://kotaku.com/5965771/far-cry-3s-racism-and-other-reasons-people-arent-picking-up-some-of-this-years-games?post=54908559

#2 Posted by adam1808 (1425 posts) -

Hyperbole on the internet? Who'd have thought it?

Nothing about what I played of Catherine was offensive, beyond the actual parts that you play.

#3 Posted by vermin_king (11 posts) -

I've never played catherine myself, but there has been people offended by the most inoffensive games. I'm sure pong would be call anti-sematic by someone. if you like Atlus games don't let one dissenting nutter put you off.

#4 Posted by Vonocourt (2124 posts) -

"Catherine easily. It asks to be taken seriously and claims to offer deep insight… then instead bombards you with puerile sexism."

From the same twitter account. Seems focused yet still vague enough to look profound while leaving plenty of slack so you don't hang yourself.

#5 Posted by Apathylad (3066 posts) -

It's offensive because it's not a good game. Serious answer - The characters aren't very likable. Vincent keeps getting himself in bad situations because of the plot pushes him down that path, so he comes across as unsympathetic. Katherine's a control freak, and Catherine is crazy. And there's that cheating aspect to it.

#6 Posted by DeathByWaffle (631 posts) -

I'm not sure what would make it offensive. It is true Catherine is pretty sexualized, but it seems clear that the game doesn't promote infidelity in relationships; even if you do decide to side with Catherine of Katherine, the game still makes it pretty clear that that makes you a bad guy.

#7 Posted by david3cm (635 posts) -

It's offensive how bad that game is.

#8 Edited by OllyOxenFree (4970 posts) -

No.
 
Cannot really think of anything offensive except that they should have

#9 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

2012: The year everyone got offended by everything.

People need to grow a thicker skin. I mean come on.

Also: fuck kotaku

#10 Posted by Gamer_152 (14065 posts) -

Huh, that's Christine Love, the woman who developed Digital: A Love Story. I can see how the way Catherine portrays women could be offensive to some, but I respect the attitude Love is taking. She's saying even if it's offensive to her, she's glad she played it, and learning something from a game is more important than having fun to her.

Moderator
#11 Posted by alevan (31 posts) -

@ahaisthisourchance: haha, yeah I dont love kotaku, there's a lot of bs going on. But I'm the type of person who needs to constantly consume random information and since they post so often a few of there stories are worth reading.

#12 Edited by Zomgfruitbunnies (764 posts) -

Hey, guys.

I'm offended.

How about you?

#13 Posted by alevan (31 posts) -

@OllyOxenFree said:

No.

Cannot really think of anything offensive except that they should have
shifted into a Persona battle when the bartender was revealed to be the mastermind. All of the dudes were gathered together; would have been perfect.

DAMMIT. I know I shouldn't have. I know it's my fault. Sigh.. I have no self restraint.

#14 Edited by wemibelec90 (1597 posts) -

I'm pretty sure those people are referring to the way Erica is treated throughout the game. Once you learn (or figure it out yourself) about her, some of the comments from Vincent and the others towards her seem a little offensive.

#15 Edited by audioBusting (1488 posts) -

@alevan said:

@OllyOxenFree said:

No.

Cannot really think of anything offensive except that they should have
shifted into a Persona battle when the bartender was revealed to be the mastermind. All of the dudes were gathered together; would have been perfect.

DAMMIT. I know I shouldn't have. I know it's my fault. Sigh.. I have no self restraint.

Dang, me too.. I shouldn't click every spoiler warnings I see.

Edit: Oh, it's Christine Love! I played some of her games and I can kinda see why someone like her would be easily offended by a game like Catherine. I haven't played Catherine though, so what do I know.

#16 Posted by alevan (31 posts) -

@audioBusting said:

@alevan said:

@OllyOxenFree said:

No.

Cannot really think of anything offensive except that they should have
shifted into a Persona battle when the bartender was revealed to be the mastermind. All of the dudes were gathered together; would have been perfect.

DAMMIT. I know I shouldn't have. I know it's my fault. Sigh.. I have no self restraint.

Dang, me too.. I shouldn't click every spoiler warnings I see.

Edit: Oh, it's Christine Love! I played some of her games and I can kinda see someone like her being easily offended by a game like Catherine. I haven't played Catherine though, so what do I know.

You know the spoiler. So that's something. D:

#17 Posted by geirr (2506 posts) -

Something is always offensive to someone.

#18 Posted by alevan (31 posts) -

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm still going to pick it up especially since I just finished Persona 4 Golden.

I'm surprised people straight up don't like the game.

I thought the general consensus was that it had a lot of flaws and the puzzles weren't fun, but the overall package/experience made it worth playing.

#19 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

I literally cannot be offended at Catherine because of Erica, funnily enough

#20 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Gamer_152 said:

Huh, that's Christine Love, the woman who developed Digital: A Love Story.

I will now play Catherine specifically because Christine Love is insulting it :P.

#21 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@Gamer_152 said:

Huh, that's Christine Love, the woman who developed Digital: A Love Story.

I will now play Catherine specifically because Christine Love is insulting it :P.

christine love owns you shut your mouth

I disagree with her here but she still owns

#22 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Animasta:

But Digital was such a piece of crap. Therefore, I'm jumping into the world of Catherine.

#23 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@Animasta:

But Digital was such a piece of crap. Therefore, I'm jumping into the world of Catherine.

well you should anyways, but I always felt digital was the weakest of her three games anyway (I prefer don't take it seriously and analogue)

#24 Posted by Milkman (16611 posts) -

Those shitty block puzzles were pretty offensive.

#25 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19321 posts) -

@Animasta said:

well you should anyways, but I always felt digital was the weakest of her three games anyway (I prefer don't take it seriously and analogue)

Oh boy, if Analogue's as "good" as don't take it personally, I'm in for a hell of a time.

#26 Edited by Animasta (14667 posts) -

@Milkman said:

Those shitty block puzzles were pretty offensive.

why, cause it made you feel like a dummy?

(ooh ooh ooh)

I know they weren't for everyone but I really enjoyed them.

@FluxWaveZ: it's way waaaaay different, I just like them both.

#27 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

Oh boy, if Analogue's as "good" as don't take it personally, I'm in for a hell of a time.

Is Digital as "good" as either?

#28 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

Oh boy, if Analogue's as "good" as don't take it personally, I'm in for a hell of a time.

Is Digital as "good" as either?

digital treads on nostalgia for BBS'es more than anything else, I felt, , whereas the other two are more straight visual novels (both are very unique, but both have visual novel esque visual novel shit)

(also analogue's art was done by the guy who did Katawa Shoujo, so there's that?)

#29 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19321 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: I thought Digital: A Love Story was fine, but mostly because of its UI and concept than its actual story. I don't have nostalgia for that era, but I could still appreciate how it worked.

I'll try Analogue out, and I guess it's good to hear that Don't take it personally is different from it, but I'll say that Don't take it personally offended me because of its badness.

#30 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Animasta:

My issue was kind of with the presentation and storytelling mechanics and overall story, so at least it seems those issues may not be issues. Maybe.

(Also, I'll only tackle Analogue if it's gifted to me. On that note, you shall see the fruits of your labor soon-ish.)

#31 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Video_Game_King: I thought Digital: A Love Story was fine, but mostly because of its UI and concept than its actual story.

I'll try Analogue out, and I guess it's good to hear that Don't take it personally is different from it, but I'll say that Don't take it personally offended me because of its badness.

well what specifically? just the dialogue?

#32 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ:

As I just said, Digital's badness was pretty offensive, too.

#33 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19321 posts) -

@Animasta said:

well what specifically? just the dialogue?

For Don't take it personally? Not just the cringe-worthy dialogue, but the dramatically inconsistent artwork, all of the characters (even the one you play as), and all of the characters' lame and uninteresting substories that made me want to just stop playing. Also, that little "twist" at the end wasn't all that great, either.

The concept of eavesdropping on other characters' conversations was cool, I guess.

#34 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Animasta said:

well what specifically? just the dialogue?

For Don't take it personally? Not just the cringe-worthy dialogue, but the dramatically inconsistent artwork, all of the characters (even the one you play as), and all of the characters' lame and uninteresting substories that made me want to just stop playing. Also, that little "twist" at the end wasn't all that great, either.

The concept of eavesdropping on other characters' conversations was cool, I guess.

lame and uninteresting substories? what's the difference between this and Persona? it's not like they were all that amazing either.

also the dramatically inconsistent artwork was because she made it in a month (for the VN equivalent of nanowrimo) so I can forgive some of the stuff about it. Analogue is a lot more consistent, however, as well as having less dialogue (it is, after all, about reading logs of a abandoned colony ship).

also I don't see how the dialogue was cringe worthy because that's how teenagers raised by the internet of today probably would act.

#35 Posted by EquitasInvictus (2020 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@FluxWaveZ:

As I just said, Digital's badness was pretty offensive, too.

Y'all must get offended real easily, then. Neither were that bad at all! I actually really liked Digital, but I guess it was mostly due to nostalgia.

Actually I can't really vouch for Don't take it personally... since I haven't played it yet?

#36 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19321 posts) -

@Animasta: None of that matters. I actually care for the characters' issues in Persona and their troubles. All of the romantic and petty bullshit I was hearing from the characters in Don't take it personally didn't appeal to me at all.

The points you raise about the artwork and dialogue don't make them better to me. The artwork was still distractingly inconsistent and the dialogue was, indeed, cringe-worthy. It's fine if you enjoyed it, but I definitely did not.

#37 Posted by mtcantor (947 posts) -

I wasn't offended.

#38 Posted by JasonR86 (9649 posts) -

Lordy.

#39 Posted by megatronicles (50 posts) -

Kotaku make a living by sensationalising and creating controversy where there is none; they are the tabloid press of games journalism. Decide for yourself.

#40 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5201 posts) -

@wemibelec90 said:

I'm pretty sure those people are referring to the way Erica is treated throughout the game. Once you learn (or figure it out yourself) about her, some of the comments from Vincent and the others towards her seem a little offensive.

The way they talked made it seem like it was all in jest because they were friends with her.

#41 Posted by SpunkyHePanda (1610 posts) -

I guess you could boil the characters of Catherine and Katherine down to "sex object" and "overbearing shrew". I don't know that I saw it that way, but an argument could be made.

#42 Posted by wemibelec90 (1597 posts) -

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@wemibelec90 said:

I'm pretty sure those people are referring to the way Erica is treated throughout the game. Once you learn (or figure it out yourself) about her, some of the comments from Vincent and the others towards her seem a little offensive.

The way they talked made it seem like it was all in jest because they were friends with her.

Yeah, it depends on how you see it, I guess. When I played through the game, I didn't think anything was overly offensive about it. Of course, I didn't know Erica's secret at that point, so maybe it would stand out to me more on a second playthrough (which I don't really want to do).

#43 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

@wemibelec90 said:

@SethPhotopoulos said:

@wemibelec90 said:

I'm pretty sure those people are referring to the way Erica is treated throughout the game. Once you learn (or figure it out yourself) about her, some of the comments from Vincent and the others towards her seem a little offensive.

The way they talked made it seem like it was all in jest because they were friends with her.

Yeah, it depends on how you see it, I guess. When I played through the game, I didn't think anything was overly offensive about it. Of course, I didn't know Erica's secret at that point, so maybe it would stand out to me more on a second playthrough (which I don't really want to do).

I never thought it was offensive but since the OP hasnt actually played the game maybe we shouldn't discuss in too in depth

#44 Posted by Turambar (6707 posts) -

@wemibelec90 said:

I'm pretty sure those people are referring to the way Erica is treated throughout the game. Once you learn (or figure it out yourself) about her, some of the comments from Vincent and the others towards her seem a little offensive.

There's a difference between comments made for the sake of offense and comments made because you've been friends since childhood, and are comfortable jabbing each other jokingly. The social context here is not exactly hidden.

#45 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5813 posts) -

I think it's funny how it's been criticized for its attitudes towards women when:

in this case the girl (Catherine) sneaks into the guy's apartment and has sex with him while he's sleeping. And then he gets berated for cheating.

lolpeoplelol

#46 Posted by Neurotic (632 posts) -

Man, some people are such delicate flowers.

#47 Posted by Brodehouse (9760 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@wemibelec90 said:

I'm pretty sure those people are referring to the way Erica is treated throughout the game. Once you learn (or figure it out yourself) about her, some of the comments from Vincent and the others towards her seem a little offensive.

There's a difference between comments made for the sake of offense and comments made because you've been friends since childhood, and are comfortable jabbing each other jokingly. The social context here is not exactly hidden.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that they have a good relationship with her. I don't see it as anything other than Yosuke giving Chie a hard time in P4 (and vice versa).

I really hate how people have no idea about the difference between sex and sexism. Everytime I see people going "what, there are sexy ladies in this game, that means its sexist!" Has nothing to do with the reinforcement of gender norms, it's just prudery and not wanting to admit that sexual desire is human.

The most sexist part of that game is the 'Good' ending where Vincent accepts all gender norms and decides he needs to work harder and get a promotion in order to make his girlfriend happy. The best part of that game is the one ending where Vincent decides he doesn't need either of them and lives his life for him. Or maybe I'm projecting.

#48 Posted by Twiggy199 (496 posts) -

The title of the kotaku thread just pisses me off, how would people know Far Cry 3 had racism if they hadn't already bought it, I mean, they aren't gunna advertise racism, if people like a game they will buy it END OF!.

#49 Posted by Fallen189 (4971 posts) -

Incredibly outspoken feminist contrives offense from a game with heavily sexual themes.
 
Nothing new

#50 Posted by Spoonman671 (4587 posts) -

Yes, everything is offensive and we should have conversations about each and every one of these offensive things.

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