What are your thoughts on Catherine?

#1 Posted by BPRJCTX (709 posts) -

So, i know this is really late, but, Catherine is one of those games i was interested in, but ultimately never got to play it.

So, i got it a week ago, played it, and just did an endurance run today, and played it for like 6 hours, only because i thought i was at at the end, when infact, i still had a couple of hours to go.

Ok, this is my opinion on it, and this is from someone who never really liked anything from Atlus, utill recently, when i started watching the ER for Persona 4, and even then, i care more about Jeff and Vinny's commentary, than the game itself.

But anyway, i really, really enjoyed this game.

From the get go, i just love the visuals, really cool artstyle, then the music is just amazing throughout the wholle game, great voice acting, even better if you take into consideration that it's a japanese game, and you all know how hard it is to get a good japanese translation, and and finally, and the best thing in the game, an incredibly engaging story.

I just loved the mature themed story in this game, if you just show it to someone, they would think it's one of those softcore hentai games, but it actually has a really deep, non linear, and very interesting story, with crazy twists, and just crazy stuff that almost makes you go as insane as the main character.

It also has multiple endings, and the ending i got really felt personal, with all the questions the game asked, everytime you got to the confessional, those questions actually made me think about my life, and everything i've been through when it comes to love.

Now the gameplay, i knew going into it, i was not going to enjoy the puzzles, i mean, they're not bad, they're fine, and thee more you play, the more you learn just how deep it can get, but, i simply don't like this style of puzzles, and that's abuot all i can say.

I put it on easy from the start (and i can't remember the last time i played a game on easy... probably never...) because i just wanted to enjoy the story, and even then, there were 2 occasions, where i just said fuck it, and looked it up on youtube, so i can only imagine how it is on normal, or how fucked up it is on hard.

For the ppl who like that style of puzzles, i think it's great, i just don't care for it.

But the reason i just don't flatout hate it, it's because they made it fit really well into the story.

I remember the first time we found out about what the gameplay in this game was going to be like, and ppl weren't expecting it at all, we all thought it was gonna be like a light RPG, since it's from the Persona team, but it was only their "next gen test game".

But, they really delivered something special with Catherine.

I can now see the appeal of the stuff these crazy japanese guys make, and a lot of it reminded me of Bayonetta, which is just one of the best games ever made.

But i have to say, one thing that putts me off of their past rpg's, is the "kiddie" or "Japanse Teen" storys in those games, and if their next Persona game, or whatever they'll call their next RPG, goes the same way of Catherine, and delivers a more mature story...

Man, i can't wait for it!!!

Anyway, they got a new fan, really unique game.

So, what are you thoughts on it?

And btw, would you want their next RPG to have a more mature story?

#2 Posted by Ubersmake (754 posts) -

I didn't really enjoy the game part. The box puzzles were fine as they were, but I wasn't playing through Catherine for the puzzles. I was in it for the story, and I especially liked the choices at the end of each stage. It was particularly relevant to me, because a lot of my friends have or are getting married, and I'm still happily and stubbornly single. It was nice to see a game hit themes around that age range, about settling down, not settling down, relationships, and such.

I wasn't a fan of the very end of that game, but I still loved everything up to that moment.

#3 Posted by the_devoid (42 posts) -

I enjoyed the actual story quite a bit. As for difficulty there is some button combo you can press to unlock a very easy which is the only way I was going to get through those puzzles. I would advise that for anyone who doesn't want to suffer through the crappy puzzles.

#4 Posted by BPRJCTX (709 posts) -

@Ubersmake said:

I didn't really enjoy the game part. The box puzzles were fine as they were, but I wasn't playing through Catherine for the puzzles. I was in it for the story, and I especially liked the choices at the end of each stage. It was particularly relevant to me, because a lot of my friends have or are getting married, and I'm still happily and stubbornly single. It was nice to see a game hit themes around that age range, about settling down, not settling down, relationships, and such.

I wasn't a fan of the very end of that game, but I still loved everything up to that moment.

Yes, very true, i wasn't expecting the end of the game to play out like, and there's something in there, that just has to be a plot hole, i'm sure if you talked to everybody you got it.

But, i think i'm gonna go watch all the other endings, cos it probably has something to do with that.

Cos then, i thought i got that ending because of the choices i made, which were mostly good.

It was fine, but i was expecting a crazy fucked up ending, like the rest of teh game, and i just got an happy ending.

But, i'm gonna watch the other endings on Youtube, just to see how different they get, i think it has 8 different endings.

#5 Posted by killacam (1278 posts) -

i would.

#6 Posted by BPRJCTX (709 posts) -

Btw, there's something else i have to say about it, i don't know how thet did it, but they made me actually enjoy spending time in the bar and just talking to ppl, it was one of my favourite parts of the game, and those are always the worst parts for me in rpg's, where i have to talk to ppl.

So, if they can pull that off in their next RPG, i'm sold!!!

#7 Edited by drGiggless (222 posts) -

the puzzle part was awful and tedious. I wanted to kill myself while playing that. everything else was ok.

#8 Posted by Animasta (14727 posts) -

the puzzles are fun, also Erica is still amazing

#9 Edited by Encephalon (1335 posts) -

It's an interesting experiment, if nothing else. I didn't like the puzzle sequences at all. The story is pretty uneven but I gave it a lot of passes simply for the subject matter it went for. One late game twist in particular fucks it up though.

#10 Posted by Fallen189 (5052 posts) -

Every single part of it was great, except the part where you had to PLAY the game

#11 Posted by QuistisTrepe (628 posts) -

Catherine is a very under appreciated game. I find it amusing that people bitch and moan all the time about the lack of new and creative, original IPs and then thumb their noses at a game like Catherine. I can see why some people may not like it. but that doesn't change the fact that it was an excellent original title.

#12 Posted by FourWude (2245 posts) -

@Animasta said:

the puzzles are fun, also Erica is still amazing

Amaaaaaaaazing!! Indeed.

#13 Posted by Hector (3380 posts) -

I loved Catherine's story and gameplay. I say the constant movement and fast paced puzzle solving made it seem more like an action game if you ask me.

#14 Posted by Ben_H (3439 posts) -

I really enjoyed the game. I actually liked the puzzle part of it too. It requires thought but once you figure it out it isn't so bad. Just a lot of trial and error.

#15 Posted by NTM (7546 posts) -

My brother bought this game when it came out, but he never beat it, and I played a bit of it, I really like the atmosphere. I mean, it has a very weird one. The voice work is good, the story seemed to be fine, and I like the art style. I didn't really enjoy the puzzles too much, I mean, they're not too difficult, it's just a lot of trial and error, and I personally didn't find what I played to be much of a thinking game, you just simply keep randomly going until you finish it. I don't know why, but although a lot of it is quality, I feel like it's not my type of game. So it just sits there.

#16 Posted by Ben_H (3439 posts) -

I really enjoyed the story. The puzzles were okay, not hugely fun but decent enough. The story more than made up for it. I also found some of the bosses fairly entertaining.

#17 Posted by FlarePhoenix (420 posts) -

The puzzles are needlessly complicated, the controls are a bitch, most of the time when I die it's because I've accidentally fallen off the side of the cliff or it's registered "walk" and "push a block" and it's fucked me over. The game play has exactly one trick, and I'm sorry but slightly different blocks do not make it interesting.

The story is kind of interesting, but even though I pretty much told Catherine to fuck off VIA TEXT MESSAGE the game still acts like you haven't made a choice. Not to mention some of the moral choice questions are so fucken arbitrary, they lose all meaning when judged as black and white. The game basically shoves down your throat that marriage is good and not wanting to get married makes you Hitler. There is no middle ground, where you can remain loyal to Katherine but not want to marry her straight away.

Also, some of the questions are so vague you have no idea what it actually means until after you've answered it. One I remember was something along the lines of "Do you prefer to stick out or fit in" and apparently sticking out meant you liked to be unfaithful.

Finally, some of the questions they ask you to determine what kind of person you are, are downright ugly given how one answer is “good” and the other is “bad”. The question that made me rage quit was “What do you consider cheating” and the two answers were “Emotional interaction” or “Physical interaction”. Emotional interactions was considered the “good” choice, so basically the game is telling you having sex with other women is alright.

This game is disgusting…

@QuistisTrepe said:

Catherine is a very under appreciated game. I find it amusing that people bitch and moan all the time about the lack of new and creative, original IPs and then thumb their noses at a game like Catherine. I can see why some people may not like it. but that doesn't change the fact that it was an excellent original title.

Just because something is new, doesn't mean it is good. Reaching a point where gamers will take any crap that comes along just because it is different is no better than gamers accepting the same games to come out time and time again.

#18 Posted by yoshimitz707 (2453 posts) -

I loved the story. Thought the perfect chaos ending was hilarious. Gameplay even on easy made me want to break my 360 in half.

#19 Posted by QuistisTrepe (628 posts) -

@FlarePhoenix said:

The puzzles are needlessly complicated, the controls are a bitch, most of the time when I die it's because I've accidentally fallen off the side of the cliff or it's registered "walk" and "push a block" and it's fucked me over. The game play has exactly one trick, and I'm sorry but slightly different blocks do not make it interesting.

The story is kind of interesting, but even though I pretty much told Catherine to fuck off VIA TEXT MESSAGE the game still acts like you haven't made a choice. Not to mention some of the moral choice questions are so fucken arbitrary, they lose all meaning when judged as black and white. The game basically shoves down your throat that marriage is good and not wanting to get married makes you Hitler. There is no middle ground, where you can remain loyal to Katherine but not want to marry her straight away.

Also, some of the questions are so vague you have no idea what it actually means until after you've answered it. One I remember was something along the lines of "Do you prefer to stick out or fit in" and apparently sticking out meant you liked to be unfaithful.

Finally, some of the questions they ask you to determine what kind of person you are, are downright ugly given how one answer is “good” and the other is “bad”. The question that made me rage quit was “What do you consider cheating” and the two answers were “Emotional interaction” or “Physical interaction”. Emotional interactions was considered the “good” choice, so basically the game is telling you having sex with other women is alright.

This game is disgusting…

@QuistisTrepe said:

Catherine is a very under appreciated game. I find it amusing that people bitch and moan all the time about the lack of new and creative, original IPs and then thumb their noses at a game like Catherine. I can see why some people may not like it. but that doesn't change the fact that it was an excellent original title.

Just because something is new, doesn't mean it is good. Reaching a point where gamers will take any crap that comes along just because it is different is no better than gamers accepting the same games to come out time and time again.

I'm not sure how to respond to this coming from someone who complains that "puzzles are needlessly complicated."

That's just.......extraordinary.

#20 Posted by FlarePhoenix (420 posts) -

@QuistisTrepe said:

@FlarePhoenix said:

The puzzles are needlessly complicated, the controls are a bitch, most of the time when I die it's because I've accidentally fallen off the side of the cliff or it's registered "walk" and "push a block" and it's fucked me over. The game play has exactly one trick, and I'm sorry but slightly different blocks do not make it interesting.

The story is kind of interesting, but even though I pretty much told Catherine to fuck off VIA TEXT MESSAGE the game still acts like you haven't made a choice. Not to mention some of the moral choice questions are so fucken arbitrary, they lose all meaning when judged as black and white. The game basically shoves down your throat that marriage is good and not wanting to get married makes you Hitler. There is no middle ground, where you can remain loyal to Katherine but not want to marry her straight away.

Also, some of the questions are so vague you have no idea what it actually means until after you've answered it. One I remember was something along the lines of "Do you prefer to stick out or fit in" and apparently sticking out meant you liked to be unfaithful.

Finally, some of the questions they ask you to determine what kind of person you are, are downright ugly given how one answer is “good” and the other is “bad”. The question that made me rage quit was “What do you consider cheating” and the two answers were “Emotional interaction” or “Physical interaction”. Emotional interactions was considered the “good” choice, so basically the game is telling you having sex with other women is alright.

This game is disgusting…

@QuistisTrepe said:

Catherine is a very under appreciated game. I find it amusing that people bitch and moan all the time about the lack of new and creative, original IPs and then thumb their noses at a game like Catherine. I can see why some people may not like it. but that doesn't change the fact that it was an excellent original title.

Just because something is new, doesn't mean it is good. Reaching a point where gamers will take any crap that comes along just because it is different is no better than gamers accepting the same games to come out time and time again.

I'm not sure how to respond to this coming from someone who complains that "puzzles are needlessly complicated."

That's just.......extraordinary.

I love how some people will resort to personal insults when they can't come up with any counters for that person's argument.

Well, as other people have already said, you aren't so much figuring out the puzzles as you are trying things out until you just happen to find what works. Not to mention, the "boss battles" are so unforgiving with time it borders on masochism. You have no time to think about anything, so you're really just pulling out random blocks in hopes you don't completely mess everything up.

But still, let's remove that one line (which I noticed was all you decided to focus on): even if the puzzles weren't needlessly complicated, and I just sucked at them, that doesn't change the fact the story is completely mishandled, the game play is boring and repetitive (seriously, they made an entire game based around a mechanic most people hate from other games), and the entire concept of having to make difficult life choices is completely thrown out the window because it is all presented as a black and white moral choice meter.

#21 Posted by mtcantor (951 posts) -

Alcohol trivia was great.

Animation was good.

Characters and writing were ok.

Block puzzles were bullshit.

Thread complete.

#22 Posted by QuistisTrepe (628 posts) -

@FlarePhoenix said:

@QuistisTrepe said:

I love how some people will resort to personal insults when they can't come up with any counters for that person's argument.

Well, as other people have already said, you aren't so much figuring out the puzzles as you are trying things out until you just happen to find what works. Not to mention, the "boss battles" are so unforgiving with time it borders on masochism. You have no time to think about anything, so you're really just pulling out random blocks in hopes you don't completely mess everything up.

But still, let's remove that one line (which I noticed was all you decided to focus on): even if the puzzles weren't needlessly complicated, and I just sucked at them, that doesn't change the fact the story is completely mishandled, the game play is boring and repetitive (seriously, they made an entire game based around a mechanic most people hate from other games), and the entire concept of having to make difficult life choices is completely thrown out the window because it is all presented as a black and white moral choice meter.

My apologies if you took my post as a personal attack. You made a comment that I thought was bizarre to say the least. What about the game is so unforgiving? There are multiple difficulty modes, you can even change the difficulty in the middle of the game. What's all this about a black and white meter? The game doesn't judge you in anyway, I don't see anything black or white about it.

#23 Posted by LikeaSsur (1592 posts) -

@FlarePhoenix said:

The question that made me rage quit was “What do you consider cheating” and the two answers were “Emotional interaction” or “Physical interaction”. Emotional interactions was considered the “good” choice, so basically the game is telling you having sex with other women is alright.

That's.....one way to interpret it, but I don't think a lot of people would agree that the game is telling you that. Maybe you missed the point of the question.

As to the game itself, it was all in all a good game. The music, story, characters, pacing, and voice acting were all fantastic. The actual gameplay and boss levels were indeed very frustrating and unforgiving, even on easy, but the story was so good that I was able to push myself through the levels to see the ending. It's sad to hear some people hate the puzzles and say that they just pushed around blocks until something worked. By the end of the game, I felt like I had learned the game and was going up much faster then when I started.

#24 Posted by Slay3r1583 (642 posts) -

Interesting that this topic resurfaced. I'm trying to play Catherine again. I bought it the day it was released and gave up after a while. This time I'm playing on easy/very easy. I love the story, characters, and the bar stuff. You know everything except the actual video game bits. I will finish it this time. I don't know if I'm going to try to get all the endings but I at least want to get all the true endings.

#25 Edited by ArtelinaRose (1857 posts) -

@FlarePhoenix said:

The puzzles are needlessly complicated, the controls are a bitch, most of the time when I die it's because I've accidentally fallen off the side of the cliff or it's registered "walk" and "push a block" and it's fucked me over. The game play has exactly one trick, and I'm sorry but slightly different blocks do not make it interesting.

The story is kind of interesting, but even though I pretty much told Catherine to fuck off VIA TEXT MESSAGE the game still acts like you haven't made a choice. Not to mention some of the moral choice questions are so fucken arbitrary, they lose all meaning when judged as black and white. The game basically shoves down your throat that marriage is good and not wanting to get married makes you Hitler. There is no middle ground, where you can remain loyal to Katherine but not want to marry her straight away.

Also, some of the questions are so vague you have no idea what it actually means until after you've answered it. One I remember was something along the lines of "Do you prefer to stick out or fit in" and apparently sticking out meant you liked to be unfaithful.

Finally, some of the questions they ask you to determine what kind of person you are, are downright ugly given how one answer is “good” and the other is “bad”. The question that made me rage quit was “What do you consider cheating” and the two answers were “Emotional interaction” or “Physical interaction”. Emotional interactions was considered the “good” choice, so basically the game is telling you having sex with other women is alright.

This game is disgusting…

@QuistisTrepe said:

Catherine is a very under appreciated game. I find it amusing that people bitch and moan all the time about the lack of new and creative, original IPs and then thumb their noses at a game like Catherine. I can see why some people may not like it. but that doesn't change the fact that it was an excellent original title.

Just because something is new, doesn't mean it is good. Reaching a point where gamers will take any crap that comes along just because it is different is no better than gamers accepting the same games to come out time and time again.

I would just like to say that when you beat the game, it says that it wasn't an alignment meter, it was more if you are "conservative" or "liberal" when it comes to love. Blue for Katherine, red for Catherine. Katherine represents a more powerful view of love that enforces strong emotions and ideas such as tradition, fidelity and the desire to be with one person and devote yourself to them. To her, marriage is THE thing to do to prove that you're actually in love with a person.

Catherine represents the idea that the previous idea of love is a stifling, oppressive monster that chains a person down. To her, love is a thing, but it isn't all consuming; the emotion of love shouldn't lock you down and force you to change your life. You should still be allowed to do things that make YOU happy just because they make you happy and forcing yourself into marriage just makes the whole thing feel sour. If you pay attention, a lot of Catherine's interactions with Vincent are actually her pitying him for being forced into so many shitty situations because she thinks Katherine is stifling his life.

#26 Posted by FlarePhoenix (420 posts) -

@QuistisTrepe said:

My apologies if you took my post as a personal attack. You made a comment that I thought was bizarre to say the least. What about the game is so unforgiving? There are multiple difficulty modes, you can even change the difficulty in the middle of the game. What's all this about a black and white meter? The game doesn't judge you in anyway, I don't see anything black or white about it.

Well, the fact that the "boss battles" are bullshit one-hit instant kills impossible to dodge if in the red zone. So, if you went up the wrong path and need to go back down to the other side, you can't really. Add to that, you need to move really fast so you don't get insta-killed, and the entire thing becomes a giant mess. Oh, and this was all in the first level on easy.

Oh as for the black and white meter. At the end of every level, the game will ask you a moral-choice question and provide you with two answers. One answer pushes your bar more towards Katherine and the other pushes it more towards Catherine. The problem is the questions they're asking do not lend themselves to a black or white answer. Like the question I mentioned "which do you consider cheating? Emotional or Physical" kind of becomes disgusting when the game forces you to choose one over the other.

@LikeaSsur said:

That's.....one way to interpret it, but I don't think a lot of people would agree that the game is telling you that. Maybe you missed the point of the question.

So, what is the point of the question then. I noticed you were quick to suggest that I might have missed it, but you didn't offer up what you believed to be the actual point. Besides, as you said it was up to interpretation. If that is how I interpreted the question, you really cannot tell me I missed the point, now can you?

@Artemesia said:

I would just like to say that when you beat the game, it says that it wasn't an alignment meter, it was more if you are "conservative" or "liberal" when it comes to love. Blue for Katherine, red for Catherine. Katherine represents a more powerful view of love that enforces strong emotions and ideas such as tradition, fidelity and the desire to be with one person and devote yourself to them. To her, marriage is THE thing to do to prove that you're actually in love with a person.

That's all well and good, but that doesn't really change the fact the entire thing is treated as black and white. You aren't deciding what Vincent should do as a character; you're just deciding which answer is going to give you the effect you want. You're not thinking "well this is what I would do in this situation" but instead "now which answer will Katherine want". It completely robs Vincent of any real character, because his actions are largely ignored by the story. You can pretty much tell one girl where to go, but the game acts like you're still undecided because it needs to force the story along.

Also, I would argue if it takes a game all the way to the end to make its point, that's pretty bad game design.

#27 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (3116 posts) -

The block puzzles were fun. At this point I'm willing to just say if you got pissed off at them that much, you were just fucking bad at the game. Deal with it, games are supposed to be challenging, especially ones described as puzzlers. As in, they make you think. Lord forbid they didn't literally just release it as a visual novel and free you of all responsibility for using your damn heads. Have some damn humility and get better instead of getting offended.

The side characters were great, Katherine and Catherine were effective at splitting people's opinions on what they thought was right and wrong when it came to relationships, and they got into some seriously heavy crap in those side-plots for the other characters. Their struggles were arguably way more interesting than what was going on with Vincent.

That said, the final plot twist about Catherine being illusory felt like a pretty big cop out. Vincent was kind of a scumbag throughout the story, and letting him off the hook that way was kind of annoying... though he was nearly dying each and every night for his transgressions, so maybe that makes up for it. That only applies in the Katherine true ending, but whatever. I'm tired of trying to defend the gameplay from people who are shit at thinking about what they're doing in three dimensional space.

Online
#28 Posted by NMC2008 (1237 posts) -

I got to chapter 7 and stopped, I forgot what took my attention away from it but it seemed fun, I may go back to it sooner or later.

#29 Posted by Tesla (1945 posts) -

I recently dove back in after stopping a few hours into the game when it first came out. The reason? A timed boss puzzle was pissing me off.

When I started over, I did so on easy. This has allowed me to sit back and enjoy the game more. I still die a few times on some boss fights, but dying frequently isn't as stressful when you have 80+ continue pillows.

Anyway, I like this game. It has become my game to play if I am drinking, or winding down after a night of drinking. Call it digital peer pressure, but once I see my dudes hanging out at Stray Sheep and throwing them back, I can't help but want to pour a scotch for myself.

While I wish the true meat of the gameplay was a bit more fleshed out, the music and style and general laid back nature of everything (on easy) has carved out a nice little niche in my heart for this game.

#30 Edited by RedBullRacer (72 posts) -

I really enjoyed it for 95% of the game, the other 5% was so frustratingly hard for me. The hardest is the only bad thing about the game for me. Wish it was easier. The characters, story, setting, music is all so good. I love P3P and this game is dripping with the same bags of style. It's so much fun, that's why the hardest upsets me. I just wanted to play for the story. The music on the title screen is amazing! I find myself sitting on the title screen just for that music, just like I did on Dragons Dogma :)

#31 Posted by natetodamax (19220 posts) -

I enjoyed everything that wasn't a block puzzle or the abysmal ending. So essentially, the bar scenes. Those were pretty cool.

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