Yahtzee thoughts on Catherine

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#1 Posted by Catolf (2653 posts) -

 
Needless to say I laughed my ass off, I don't think there is any real spoilers in it so i won't say spoilers but my mind was blown when he said he liked the puzzles. XD Other than that enjoy, I know I did. But if your truly not wanting to hear or  see anything about the game still then avoid this, he'll describe a certain third night boss..

#2 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@Catolf: I don't think he so much liked the puzzles as was able to tolerate them.

That review just convinced me more that I will never EVER play this game. He really confirmed what I already thought: That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

#3 Posted by emergency (1193 posts) -

@nintendoeats said:

@Catolf: I don't think he so much liked the puzzles as was able to tolerate them.

That review just convinced me more that I will never EVER play this game. He really confirmed what I already thought: That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

Using Yahtzee as a credible source for judging whether or not to play a game. Dot Dot Dot

#4 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@emergency said:

@nintendoeats said:

@Catolf: I don't think he so much liked the puzzles as was able to tolerate them.

That review just convinced me more that I will never EVER play this game. He really confirmed what I already thought: That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

Using Yahtzee as a credible source for judging whether or not to play a game. Dot Dot Dot

I've played 90% of the games that he has reviewed. I know when and how to use him as a source.

#5 Posted by Vinny_Says (5681 posts) -

Yatzee has gotten soft.

#6 Posted by benjaebe (2783 posts) -

Entertaining look at the game. Glad (and somewhat surprised) he mostly enjoyed it.

#7 Posted by Yummylee (21206 posts) -

God I fucking heart Yahtzee. I never hold any of his reviews in high regard, though I watch them all anyway because they're so damn hilarious.

#8 Posted by wolf_blitzer85 (5250 posts) -

@Abyssfull said:

God I fucking heart Yahtzee. I never hold any of his reviews in high regard, though I watch them all anyway because they're so damn hilarious.

It's really funny to read the comments. Some people get so pissed off. I'm with you where his reviews don't make or break what I think of a game, but he does often bring good points.

#9 Posted by Gladiator_Games (443 posts) -

I like Yatzee.. he does something that so many critics these days forget to do. Criticize. No game is perfect, and for me at least, when I look back at games I tend to remember the stuff that made me angry at the game and less wanting to play it, and I have a feeling he does the same too.

#10 Posted by jozzy (2041 posts) -

@Abyssfull said:

God I fucking heart Yahtzee. I never hold any of his reviews in high regard, though I watch them all anyway because they're so damn hilarious.

I hold them in high regard for their entertainment value, which I think is the primary point of them. He usually has solid arguments about negative aspects of a game and magnifies them in a very ingenious way, but nobody would buy any games anymore if they listened to his advice.

#11 Posted by Mikemcn (6937 posts) -

Wow, All Women Are Dykes is a very poorly worded Metaphor.

#12 Posted by Tophat666 (229 posts) -

@emergency said:

@nintendoeats said:

@Catolf: I don't think he so much liked the puzzles as was able to tolerate them.

That review just convinced me more that I will never EVER play this game. He really confirmed what I already thought: That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

Using Yahtzee as a credible source for judging whether or not to play a game. Dot Dot Dot

Ditto good sir.

#13 Posted by Catolf (2653 posts) -
@nintendoeats said:

@Catolf: I don't think he so much liked the puzzles as was able to tolerate them.

That review just convinced me more that I will never EVER play this game. He really confirmed what I already thought: That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

I think, you should rent the game before saying that. Also, Vincent is never meant to be you. btw. He is still his own character, your just nudging him in a direction you want his conscience to go.
#14 Posted by SMTDante89 (2541 posts) -

I loved the little snicker he gave when he mentioned the questions you're supposed to answer.

#15 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5797 posts) -

I liked it.
 
Though I disagree with him about the misogyny part.

#16 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@Catolf said:

@nintendoeats said:

@Catolf: I don't think he so much liked the puzzles as was able to tolerate them.

That review just convinced me more that I will never EVER play this game. He really confirmed what I already thought: That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

I think, you should rent the game before saying that. Also, Vincent is never meant to be you. btw. He is still his own character, your just nudging him in a direction you want his conscience to go.

The thing is I wouldn't watch a movie about this guy either. I just don't want anything to do with him.

#17 Edited by LordXavierBritish (6320 posts) -

@nintendoeats said:

@Catolf said:

@nintendoeats said:

@Catolf: I don't think he so much liked the puzzles as was able to tolerate them.

That review just convinced me more that I will never EVER play this game. He really confirmed what I already thought: That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

I think, you should rent the game before saying that. Also, Vincent is never meant to be you. btw. He is still his own character, your just nudging him in a direction you want his conscience to go.

The thing is I wouldn't watch a movie about this guy either. I just don't want anything to do with him.

I wouldn't murder my best friend, but that doesn't make Macbeth a bad character.

I find this viewpoint to be extremely naive. Just because a character is heavily flawed doesn't make it bad.

I think referring to Vincent as a "player character" really just seals your misconception, this isn't fucking Mass Effect. He isn't a blank slate with 0 personality.

#18 Posted by Cincaid (2953 posts) -

He brings up in one of his episodes that several viewers have a hard time understanding if he's recommending a game or trashing it to bits in his "reviews". He mainly just focus on the stuff which annoys him through a magnifying glass, because that's obviously more entertaining for the viewer.

He hated a lot of games which I have enjoyed a lot more than he seemed to (Castlevania: Lords of Shadow for example), but his top 5 of 2010 contained 5 games in my own top 10 list of that year, so I do value his thoughts and taste, even if it's just for fun in the end.

#19 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@LordXavierBritish: Ok, but Macbeth has other qualities that make him interesting. I am not interested in Vincent. I don't want to spend time with him.

#20 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19305 posts) -
@nintendoeats said:

@LordXavierBritish: Ok, but Macbeth has other qualities that make him interesting. I am not interested in Vincent. I don't want to spend time with him.

That's fair. But Vincent has a lot of redeeming qualities as well.
#21 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@nintendoeats said:

@LordXavierBritish: Ok, but Macbeth has other qualities that make him interesting. I am not interested in Vincent. I don't want to spend time with him.

That's fair. But Vincent has a lot of redeeming qualities as well.

I'm sure he does, otherwise nobody would like him.

#22 Posted by Catolf (2653 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:
@nintendoeats said:

@LordXavierBritish: Ok, but Macbeth has other qualities that make him interesting. I am not interested in Vincent. I don't want to spend time with him.

That's fair. But Vincent has a lot of redeeming qualities as well.
for how much of a tool he does infact act, he does have a kind heart, i think thats a redeeming quality that in itself. He's his own man, we don't change him, just.. influence him.
#23 Posted by Trebz (487 posts) -

The bit about wanking off over comatose girls was great.

#24 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19305 posts) -
@nintendoeats said: 

I'm sure he does, otherwise nobody would like him.

In your opinion, a character needs to have positive qualities in order to be liked by an audience?
#25 Posted by Meowshi (2911 posts) -
@emergency said:

@nintendoeats said:

@Catolf: I don't think he so much liked the puzzles as was able to tolerate them.

That review just convinced me more that I will never EVER play this game. He really confirmed what I already thought: That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

Using Yahtzee as a credible source for judging whether or not to play a game. Dot Dot Dot

"Is no different from using any other video game personality for judging whether or not to play a game", is how you meant to end that statement, I assume.
#26 Posted by believer258 (11563 posts) -

I never thought I would see Macbeth brought into a forum about this Catherine game. Of course I'd also put anime and Shakespeare about on the same writing level - some good ideas but overall they're boring cheesy crap most of the time*. 
 
As for this game - I did not care for the concept when I first heard about and I still don't. It sounds more like a glorified visual novel where you point the character in a direction, only every now and then you have to go through nightmare sections. I still don't care one bit for it. 
 
*By now, the more Sherlock-esque of you have noticed my anime avatar. I said both Shakespeare and anime are boring most of the time, and I meant it. Most of the time. Sometimes they aren't and it can provide a hell of a good time if you can get used to the quirks.

#27 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19305 posts) -
@believer258: Catherine is more than 80% puzzle sequences, I would say. So how does that make it a "glorified visual novel"?
#28 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@nintendoeats said:

I'm sure he does, otherwise nobody would like him.

In your opinion, a character needs to have positive qualities in order to be liked by an audience?

Ok, fair enough...But 99.999% of the time, they do.

#29 Posted by DonChipotle (2693 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@believer258: Catherine is more than 80% puzzle sequences, I would say. So how does that make it a "glorified visual novel"?

Some visual novels have a surprising amount of non-clicking based gameplay. Catherine is pretty much a visual novel without any of the good story bits that make a visual novel entertaining.

#30 Posted by believer258 (11563 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:
 Catherine is more than 80% puzzle sequences, I would say. So how does that make it a "glorified visual novel"?  
Note that I said "sounds like". I haven't played the game, I was just commenting on the impressions I have of it so far. And so far I have seen nothing that looks like either an entertaining game or a story that I care to hear, and so far every review I have seen and/or read of the game has told me nothing of interest. It just isn't the game for me.
#31 Posted by Dany (7887 posts) -

I love yahtzee, just because he wraps his critiques and opinions around funny one liners and metaphors don't make his critique less valid than other.

#32 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5797 posts) -

I don't get all the hate for Vincent.
 
I thought he was a likable guy, going through some tough times.

#33 Posted by Hailinel (23680 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@nintendoeats said:

That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

Tell me about it. Can't relate at all. I need a game in which the playable character shares my interests; jumping on turtles, eating giant magical mushrooms, smashing levitating blocks, shooting fire out of my hands - that sort of thing.

Of course. I mean, behaving in an irrational, illogical manner while attempting to sort out a love life and making foolish decisions in the process? Who does that?

#34 Posted by Catolf (2653 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

@rebgav said:

@nintendoeats said:

That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

Tell me about it. Can't relate at all. I need a game in which the playable character shares my interests; jumping on turtles, eating giant magical mushrooms, smashing levitating blocks, shooting fire out of my hands - that sort of thing.

Of course. I mean, behaving in an irrational, illogical manner while attempting to sort out a love life and making foolish decisions in the process? Who does that?

A person whom is pinned a a proverbial wall, people do this, while you dont' agree with it a lot of people do. People aren't black and white, you should know this. We all are different and just because his decisions frustrate you dosen't make him or his actions unheard of in the slightest.
#35 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19305 posts) -
@Catolf said:
@Hailinel said: 

Of course. I mean, behaving in an irrational, illogical manner while attempting to sort out a love life and making foolish decisions in the process? Who does that?

A person whom is pinned a a proverbial wall, people do this, while you dont' agree with it a lot of people do. People aren't black and white, you should know this. We all are different and just because his decisions frustrate you dosen't make him or his actions unheard of in the slightest.
Uh, I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
#36 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@nintendoeats said:

That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

Tell me about it. Can't relate at all. I need a game in which the playable character shares my interests; jumping on turtles, eating giant magical mushrooms, smashing levitating blocks, shooting fire out of my hands - that sort of thing.

That's really not the same. Ludonarrative parity duder.

@Hailinel said:

@rebgav said:

@nintendoeats said:

That the player character behaves in ways that I simply refuse to, and therefore I really can never really either imagine that I am him, or see him as an outside entity that I am working with.

Tell me about it. Can't relate at all. I need a game in which the playable character shares my interests; jumping on turtles, eating giant magical mushrooms, smashing levitating blocks, shooting fire out of my hands - that sort of thing.

Of course. I mean, behaving in an irrational, illogical manner while attempting to sort out a love life and making foolish decisions in the process? Who does that?

Sure, they do. All I have ever stated is that I personally don't have any interest in this game. I have not at any point stated that it is bad.

#37 Posted by Hailinel (23680 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Catolf said:
@Hailinel said:

Of course. I mean, behaving in an irrational, illogical manner while attempting to sort out a love life and making foolish decisions in the process? Who does that?

A person whom is pinned a a proverbial wall, people do this, while you dont' agree with it a lot of people do. People aren't black and white, you should know this. We all are different and just because his decisions frustrate you dosen't make him or his actions unheard of in the slightest.
Uh, I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

Yeah, it was sarcasm.

#38 Posted by Catolf (2653 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Catolf said:
@Hailinel said:

Of course. I mean, behaving in an irrational, illogical manner while attempting to sort out a love life and making foolish decisions in the process? Who does that?

A person whom is pinned a a proverbial wall, people do this, while you dont' agree with it a lot of people do. People aren't black and white, you should know this. We all are different and just because his decisions frustrate you dosen't make him or his actions unheard of in the slightest.
Uh, I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

Yeah, it was sarcasm.

My apologies I read it wrong.
#39 Posted by Djstyles92 (952 posts) -
@FancySoapsMan said:
I don't get all the hate for Vincent.  I thought he was a likable guy, going through some tough times.
That's exactly what I think about him.  I really don't get the hate he gets.  He is just a normal guy who really fucked up.
#40 Edited by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@rebgav: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludonarrative

EDIT: Actually, that link didn't explain what I meant very well.

The issue at hand is that of player motivation. In a Mario game, I have the same goals as Mario. I use the tools the same way that he does. There is ludonarrative parity, because the gameplay and story are not in conflict.

In a game about relationship problems, my solution would always be to NOT cheat on my girlfriend. Therefore, I am being forced by the game to not use tools that I should have available.

If we look at it as though Vincent is only a character that I influence and do not directly control, we go back to the issue that I don't want to spend time with a dude who cheats on his girlfriend.

#41 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@rebgav: Yeah, look at my edit. It's a better explanation of what I'm getting at.

#42 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@nintendoeats said:

In a game about relationship problems, my solution would always be to NOT cheat on my girlfriend. Therefore, I am being forced by the game to not use tools that I should have available.

The conflict is between you and the premise of the game, not between the gameplay and the narrative. I would never join the military but Modern Warfare didn't give me that option, for good reason.

Right...the narrative and gameplay premise of the game.

I'm opposed to shooting dudes, but I like simulations of shooting dudes because there is a fun and unique challenge aspect to it. I'm opposed to cheating on my (hypothetical) girlfriend, and I don't like simulations of it because I don't have any desire whatsoever to be in that situation.

If the premise of the game is grounded somewhere other than the narrative and gameplay, where is it?

#43 Posted by SoldierG654342 (1726 posts) -
@nintendoeats said: 

In a game about relationship problems, my solution would always be to NOT cheat on my girlfriend. Therefore, I am being forced by the game to not use tools that I should have available.

So by that logic, in games about the military one of the options that should be available to me is to not join the armed services. 
#44 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@rebgav: Why do you hate the phrase ludonarrative so much? It's kind of important.

I see what you're getting at, but the flaw in this line of logic is the assumption that I have already started the game and have accepted the thing that the narrative forces on my gameplay experience. I am NOT willing to play it, becuase I am NOT willing to accept that narrative demand. If I were to play it, I would be faced with ludonarrative complications because my motivations and gameplay choices are at odds with the game's story. It would be a constant battle between how I wanted to behave and what the game allowed. It would end up in this weird middle ground where I was doing things to meet my ends, while the character was doing them for completely different reasons. Actually, I used my terms poorly. In that case you technically have ludonarrative parity (player and character performing same actions for different reasons), in the Mario example you have ludonarrative synthesis (player and character performing same actions for same reasons). So yes, I will acknowledge that I didn't really use my terms entirely accurately. Nonetheless, the comparison of Mario to Vincent is not apt.

So...um....I've just realized that I'm not sure what we are arguing about.

#45 Posted by CaptainCody (1505 posts) -

EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE.
#46 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@SoldierG654342: That would be the option of don't play the game. You know, the option that I'm choosing with Catherine.

#47 Edited by fuchikoma (41 posts) -
@nintendoeats

I understand that you've already made your mind up on this game, but it's also notable that that is the exact same situation Vincent is in when the game begins. He doesn't entertain any thoughts of cheating on his girlfriend, doesn't plan to, and doesn't even know how it happened, but he sort of wakes up in the aftermath of it and has to deal with the situation. He's not some insensitive player who uses women or something. Also, I'm only a few levels in, but so far I've been giving Catherine the cold shoulder all the way - though I suspect that'll come back to bite me later, so be it.

I mean, I'm also fundamentally opposed to the idea of cheating at a very basic level, but I find the narrative interesting, and even more, the choices I'm asked to make since it presents an in-game morality system that isn't "help old people or step on kittens?" It's more like "Is it easier to love, or BE loved?" and for actually making me think about things like that, I'd already rate it higher than most games.

#48 Edited by SoldierG654342 (1726 posts) -
@nintendoeats said:

@SoldierG654342: That would be the option of don't play the game. You know, the option that I'm choosing with Catherine.

No, you are asking for options within the gameplay that allow you to subvert the basic conflicts of the game.  Did you refuse to play Silent Hill 2 because  
#49 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

@fuchikoma: I mean yes, I'm sure it's very good. That's been my position all along. I just don't even want to think about the merest possibility of being in that situation.

The whole "He doesn't know how it happened" thing actually kind of bothers me more. Even if it gets explained later on, it sounds like a narrative contrivance. That simply isn't how it works in real life. Well, unless you're in an anime.

#50 Posted by Rapid (1339 posts) -
@CrazyChris said:

He brings up in one of his episodes that several viewers have a hard time understanding if he's recommending a game or trashing it to bits in his "reviews". He mainly just focus on the stuff which annoys him through a magnifying glass, because that's obviously more entertaining for the viewer.

He hated a lot of games which I have enjoyed a lot more than he seemed to (Castlevania: Lords of Shadow for example), but his top 5 of 2010 contained 5 games in my own top 10 list of that year, so I do value his thoughts and taste, even if it's just for fun in the end.

Try to score that review Metacritic! 

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