Man, Chie got the short end of the stick....

#1 Posted by mutha3 (4986 posts) -

She's basically an inferior Kanji. 
 
Sure, when she gets God Hand she will fuck shit up, but up until that point she's the worst character for 70% of the game. And in pure damage output:  Kanji+Primalforcex2> Chie+God Hand+powercharge
 
-She doesn't get any Ice skills beyond Bufula, but she has pretty high magic(WTF?) 
-She is the worst buffer in the game. She only gets Tarukaja.
-Her strength  is on par with  Yosuke and she seriously loses out to Kanji
-And the worst of all: 
 
Between Blackspot and Rainy death: she doesn't gain a single useful physical skill. And rainy death gets replaced with God Hand three levels later(WTF?)  Heat wave is an awful skil and inferior to Rampage. Blackspot has a nice crit rate and accuracy, but, its lack of attack power puts her below every other party member in terms of damage. Her lack of buffs and healing spells mean she basically serves no purpose at all in combat.The only advantage she has over Kanji is multi-phys attacks, but, Heat Wave is awful and never hits and Rampage stops being useful around level 47. So that's not really an advantage.... They could have easily fixed this by giving Chie:
 
-A good/decent mId-phys instead of  the absolute worst when she gets Heat Wave
-Learning a heavy-phys at level 50-55
-Instead of Tarukaja, give her debuffs
-Maybe give her an own element:P bring back Aqua-Aques-Aquadyne!....Or put those magic points she has into attack
 
As she is now, the only (arguably) worse character in combat is Naoto:(

#2 Posted by Gamer_152 (14099 posts) -

You know the whole balancing issues like this really don't bother me, the best bit of Persona 4 was the story and Chie was one of many awesome characters.

Moderator
#3 Posted by Eirikr (1009 posts) -

Who cares, she's Chie!

#4 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19376 posts) -

Naoto fucking sucks, that's not even debatable.  The only thing she's got going for her are her light/dark spells, but in Persona 4 those are so unreliable that you should only bother casting them on the shadows who are weak to it.  She's also got the Megido- spells, but those are practically useless.
 
I don't remember much about battle stuff in the game, but I believe Chie was mostly physical and so was Kanji.  Obviously, Kanji was much more powerful so, yeah, Kanji > Chie.  Anyways, you don't need any of them when you have Teddie, Yukiko and Yosuke!

#5 Posted by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@Gamer_152 said:
"

You know the whole balancing issues like this really don't bother me, the best bit of Persona 4 was the story and Chie was one of many awesome characters.

"
 
I think the battles system is great as well. And Chie doesn't suck enough to not use.
 
But I would have like it more if she would kickass in battle, and not just in cutscenes:(
@Eirikr said:
" Who cares, she's Chie! "
:'(
 
Damn you, Eirikr, Chie is awesome she deserved better.
#6 Posted by natetodamax (19216 posts) -

Whatever, she eats steak.

#7 Posted by evreche (48 posts) -

Just use every character and beat the game. I always rotate all the characters no matter how good or bad they are and never had any problems or had to grind. 
 
Persona  4 is much too good of a game to get caught in comparing characters when as long as your main is well balanced it really doesn't matter who is in your party.

#8 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:

" Naoto fucking sucks, that's not even debatable.  The only thing she's got going for her are her light/dark spells, but in Persona 4 those are so unreliable that you should only bother casting them on the shadows who are weak to it.  She's also got the Megido- spells, but those are practically useless.  I don't remember much about battle stuff in the game, but I believe Chie was mostly physical and so was Kanji.  Obviously, Kanji was much more powerful so, yeah, Kanji > Chie.  Anyways, you don't need any of them when you have Teddie, Yukiko and Yosuke! "

Naoto's crazy high luck does guarantee that almost any random encouter will be a joke. Naoto also, only sucks in 60% of the time she's usable as opposed to Chie.
 
As a side note, Diarahan will outlaw the need of Yukiko healing! I'd rather take Kanji's manly ridiculous attack power.best team is team Bro(Kanji,Teddie,Yosuke) 
 
THEY CAN KEEP IT REAL, SON
#9 Posted by FrankCanada97 (4039 posts) -

This should either be on the Chie forums or the Persona 4 forums. Anyways, Chie wins because she has the coolest looking special attack in the game.

#10 Posted by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@FrankCanada97 said:
" This should either be on the Chie forums or the Persona 4 forums. Anyways, Chie wins because she has the coolest looking special attack in the game. "
Fuck.
 
I was sure I posted this in the P4 board.....
#11 Posted by Chyro (353 posts) -

It's a bug right now on the site.  You probably did post it in the P4 forums.

#12 Posted by Semition (731 posts) -

I don't think Chie is that much weaker than Kanji. God's Hand + Power Charge is only slightly weaker than Primal Charge x 2. She is a terrible buffer but she gets Agneyastra.

#13 Posted by Alphazero (1546 posts) -

Chie kicks tanks into orbit. I like that in a girl.

#14 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@Semition said:

" I don't think Chie is that much weaker than Kanji. God's Hand + Power Charge is only slightly weaker than Primal Charge x 2. She is a terrible buffer but she gets Agneyastra. "

That's all endgame stuff, though. For like over half the game she isn't very good.
 
@FluxWaveZ said:

" Naoto fucking sucks, that's not even debatable.  The only thing she's got going for her are her light/dark spells, but in Persona 4 those are so unreliable that you should only bother casting them on the shadows who are weak to it.  Ske! "


Oh, yeah I somehow missed this statement! Dude SMT instadeath is ,like,  the most reliable of all! Especially with high luck Persona/Character.
 
When Naoto learns Mamudoon, basically every random encouter has at least 3/5 enemies dying.
 
Too bad, you'll have reached the end when she gets there:(
#15 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19376 posts) -
@mutha3 said:

" Naoto's crazy high luck does guarantee that almost any random encouter will be a joke. Naoto also, only sucks in 60% of the time she's usable as opposed to Chie. 
 
As a side note, Diarahan will outlaw the need of Yukiko healing! I'd rather take Kanji's manly ridiculous attack power.best team is team Bro(Kanji,Teddie,Yosuke)   THEY CAN KEEP IT REAL, SON "


Wait... what did luck do?  Anyways, Naoto's physicals sucked ass and so did her stupid guns.  I heavily doubt that I would have preferred her over Chie if I chose differently. 
 
I'll admit that Naoto's light/dark spells weren't all that bad, but they don't do crap against bosses.  So when you're facing a boss, Naoto's the weakest thing EVER and you can't do anything about it.  I was miserable every time it came to her turn when facing the final boss.  She ended up only using items.
 
And, for the second, I've got this to say: wrong, wrong and WRONG!  Yukiko was probably the most useful character in the game!  Her enormous magic stat made Agidyne and her other spells do tons of damage late game.  Along with her buffing or debuffing, she was a perfect healer and, combined with Teddie, made it so I never feared for my life late game.  If one was out, the other could resurrect/heal in that character's stead, and both served as support and as attackers.  Teddie was also a great magic caster with his ice spells.
#16 Posted by Turambar (6843 posts) -

I'm sorry, but galactic punt evens pretty much everything out.  You also forget the painful HP cost of two primal forces.  Since it's proportional to the character's Max HP, Kanji will always be giving up nearly half his health to deal that damage.
 
As for Naoto, people underestimate just how good mahamaon/mamudoon + light/dark boost + high luck stats are for a normal encounter.  It is actually the most SP efficient way to deal with random encounters, sans those that are str or nul.  That said, she has little to no sue for a boss fight.  Even the chakra ring doesn't make megidoloan spam all the viable.

#17 Posted by Ariketh (606 posts) -

Kanji is great and all, but Chie is Chie. I mean, come on! I can't live without "Ah ha! Is this our chance?"
 
I say replace Yosuke with Kanji. Chie, Kanji, and Yukiko.

#18 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19376 posts) -
@Turambar said:
" That said, she has little to no sue for a boss fight.  Even the chakra ring doesn't make megidoloan spam all the viable. "
And those are the most important battle in the game.  That's why I was so mad that I had stuck with her as my 3rd character when it came to the bosses.  She was utterly useless...
#19 Posted by Symphony (1912 posts) -

You're not seriously min/maxing in Persona 4, are you? 
 
The game was definitely not difficult enough to require swapping out characters or using a specific team for any fight. Persona 3 required more strategy when it came to what team to take to fights and even then there was a ton of freedom to use who you wanted beyond not taking someone who would, for example, spam bufu on a boss that absorbed ice attacks. Since Persona 4 gave you the ability to control your teammates, this became a non-issue as you can avoid casting those spells and focus on buffs and heals, essentially letting you bring whoever you want. 
 
Maybe Chie is a weaker character than others, but I and many others certainly didn't notice having used her from start to finish with no problems. *shrugs*

#20 Posted by iAmJohn (6131 posts) -

Well let's be honest here, Chie got the short end of the stick in not being the most completely overpowered, awesome character in the game like she should be.

#21 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19376 posts) -
@Symphony: That's what I regretted when it came to the end of the game.  I should have mixed my party up a little.  I just wanted to avoid unnecessary grind so I stuck with the same characters for the game, but I shouldn't have.  I'll keep that in mind for Persona 5. :P
#22 Posted by ChickenPants (934 posts) -

She's got one of the best follow up attacks though - Galactic Punt. Although I did also appreciate Kanji's.

#23 Posted by Turambar (6843 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:
" @Turambar said:
" That said, she has little to no sue for a boss fight.  Even the chakra ring doesn't make megidoloan spam all the viable. "
And those are the most important battle in the game.  That's why I was so mad that I had stuck with her as my 3rd character when it came to the bosses.  She was utterly useless... "
I don't know, no boss fights after Yukiko could be considered anything near difficult.  The trip through the dungeon always presented more difficulties, with some shadow encounters being far more deadly than ameno-sagiri.  Given the how the exp scaling in this game worked, leveling up a 5th party member is a very easy thing.  For example, I took Kanji into magatsu inaba for fun, having not used him at all the entire game.  Four fights was all it took to get him from lv 2x up to lv 7x. 
#24 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:

Wait... what did luck do?  Anyways, Naoto's physicals sucked ass and so did her stupid guns.  I heavily doubt that I would have preferred her over Chie if I chose differently.

 Luck factors into a characters evasion rate and hit chance for instadeath. Naoto and Yukiko have boat loads of it.
 
....
 
 
Yeah they should really explain this.
 
 
 


And, for the second, I've got this to say: wrong, wrong and WRONG!  Yukiko was probably the most useful character in the game!  Her enormous magic stat made Agidyne and her other spells do tons of damage late game.

 
In terms of damage Yukiko does much less then Kanji. Primal force has an attack power of 2200 while Agidyne has a puny 320.
 
I'm not too sure on this, but I think Kanji outclasses Yukiko comparatively in the strength department. He ussually ends up with 80 strengh.
 
 


  Along with her buffing or debuffing

 
 
 Yukiko has neither  of  those,sure,   she can heal status effects. Kanji has  great buffs.
 


, she was a perfect healer and, combined with Teddie   made it so I never feared for my life late game.  If one was out, the other could resurrect/heal in that character's stead, and both served as support and as attackers.  Teddie was also a great magic caster with his ice spells. "

 
A Yukiko/Teddie team made you susceptible to 2 element types throughout the entire game.  Also, one healer+Souji+Yosuke=more then enough to keep the party alive. Especially when you get Mediarahan, which restores full health at a turn. And seeing how your party always gets a full turn in a boss battle, there isn't much reason to have 2 healers.
 
Yukiko's pretty good, though. Just not up to Team BRO 
 


 I'm sorry, but galactic punt evens pretty much everything out.  You also forget the painful HP cost of two primal forces.  Since it's proportional to the character's Max HP, Kanji will always be giving up nearly half his health to deal that damage.  

 

.
 Mediarahan makes this a non-issue.
 

 
 
 
..talking about game  meachanics is more  fun then it should be:p
#25 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19376 posts) -
@Turambar: Ameno-Sagiri and Izanami were pains to go against with Naoto in my team.  I do remember the Hama- and Mudo- spells to be pretty useful in Magatsu Inaba and sometimes in Paradise, but other than that... But yeah, I should have realized leveling up low leveled characters by bringing them in late dungeons was an easy feat.  Probably would have used the whole cast.
#26 Posted by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@Symphony said:

" You're not seriously min/maxing in Persona 4, are you? 
 

The game was definitely not difficult enough to require swapping out characters or using a specific team for any fight. Persona 3 required more strategy when it came to what team to take to fights and even then there was a ton of freedom to use who you wanted beyond not taking someone who would, for example, spam bufu on a boss that absorbed ice attacks. Since Persona 4 gave you the ability to control your teammates, this became a non-issue as you can avoid casting those spells and focus on buffs and heals, essentially letting you bring whoever you want.  Maybe Chie is a weaker character than others, but I and many others certainly didn't notice having used her from start to finish with no problems. *shrugs* "

 
 
 No, its fun to think about game mechanics:P
 
I'm a nerd after all
 
 
@iAmJohn said:

" Well let's be honest here, Chie got the short end of the stick in not being the most completely overpowered, awesome character in the game like she should be. "


Woah there. I think Kanji/Teddie have rightfully taken that position>:(
 
Chie is cool and all, but she doesn't know how to get bent or score with hot studs.
 
 @FluxWaveZ said:

" @Turambar: Ameno-Sagiri and Izanami were pains to go against with Naoto in my team.  I do remember the Hama- and Mudo- spells to be pretty useful in Magatsu Inaba and sometimes in Paradise, but other than that... But yeah, I should have realized leveling up low leveled characters by bringing them in late dungeons was an easy feat.  Probably would have used the whole cast. "

I...
 
I tried doing this,
 
believe me it isn't fun :(
 
(unless you like grinding, I guess)
#27 Posted by Belonpopo (1822 posts) -
@mutha3: You most have really fucked up because Chie is by far my best besides protagonist.
#28 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19376 posts) -
@mutha3: Yeah... I had suspicions that Yukiko didn't have buffs/debuffs, didn't remember quite well.  But even then, Magic > Strength as it's way more useful to down shadows with elemental damage than with physical attacks.  And if one healer got incapacitated, the other would be fully available to restore that character without wasting the turn of the Main Character or the other non-healer.  Since Teddie also had a great Magic stat, any shadow susceptible to ice or fire was nothing.  And Teddie, I'm positive, had some useful buffs that made Yukiko and the MC even more resilient and useful.
 
Also, using magic doesn't waste any HP.  Yukiko had a butt load of MP so she could use her skills with no worries.  Good physicals with Kanji takes out a lot of HP—HP that you need to heal up later on.
#29 Posted by endaround (2147 posts) -

You must not have Chie equiped right.  She is so, so much faster than Kanji.  MC, Yosuke and Chie all act before any enemy that you didn't even need to get first attacks.  And up her evasion and she'll never get hit.

#30 Posted by LordAndrew (14430 posts) -

She has Galactic Motherfucking Punt. Anything else is just gravy.

#31 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:

" @mutha3: Yeah... I had suspicions that Yukiko didn't have buffs/debuffs, didn't remember quite well.  But even then, Magic > Strength as it's way more useful to down shadows with elemental damage than with physical attacks.

Primal Force has a nice crit chance  of  25% , the amount of enemies you'll encouter who are weak to fire are lower then that. Kanji has a  25% chance to knock down 100% of the enemies, while  Yukiko has a 100% chance to knock down 10-15%(its probably lower then that, most enemies in the game are weak to wind)of the enemies. 
 Besides, Kanji has lightning and in an all out attack magic power doesn't matter anyways, if you're talking about the increased damage enemies take:
 
Even fully amped/boosted , a Primal Force does three times damage then Agidyne.(320x= 740, Primal force=2200) 
 


 And if one healer got incapacitated, the other would be fully available to restore that character without wasting the turn of the Main Character or the other non-healer.  Since Teddie also had a great Magic stat, any shadow susceptible to ice or fire was nothing.  And Teddie, I'm positive, had some useful buffs that made Yukiko and the MC even more resilient and useful. 

 
 Its true that if one healer gets incapacitated the other can take over.
 
But the thing is, Yukiko has very low endurance and susceptibility to ice even if you max her out. The reason you would heal that much in the first place, is because you party is weak.
 
With Three buffers(Kanji/Teddie/Yosuke) You can get the crew up to full performance in one turn, and not have to heal as much because:
 
-Kanji has super high endurance
- He has no weaknesses

 


Also, using magic doesn't waste any HP.  Yukiko had a butt load of MP so she could use her skills with no worries.  Good physicals with Kanji takes out a lot of HP—HP that you need to heal up later on.
 

Teddie has enough SP/ there are enough ways to heal HP that it isn't much of an issue. SP is really problematic to get back in P4, HP is effin' easy
 
@endaround said:
" You must not have Chie equiped right.  She is so, so much faster than Kanji.  MC, Yosuke and Chie all act before any enemy that you didn't even need to get first attacks.  And up her evasion and she'll never get hit. "

Yosuke and Naoto are faster then her. And being first to attack doesn't mean much when she'll hardly do any damage,buff or heal. She is awful in all of those until she gets motherfuckin'  GOD HAND
#32 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19376 posts) -
@mutha3 said:
" Primal Force has a nice crit chance  of  25% , the amount of enemies you'll encouter who are weak to fire are lower then that. Kanji has a  25% chance to knock down 100% of the enemies, while  Yukiko has a 100% chance to knock down 10-15%(its probably lower then that, most enemies in the game are weak to wind)of the enemies. "
But that's incorrect.  There are tons of enemies that have some type of resistance to physicals (Tanks, particularly).  And when you're caught against those enemies, it makes Kanji useless if they also have no weakness to electricity.  And when you're against those enemies, it's easy to down them with elementals instead.
 
Also, I was only S. Link rank 2 with Kanji at the end of the game.  With Yukiko, I was S. Rank 10, so that also lead to my choice.
#33 Posted by FrankCanada97 (4039 posts) -

Now, that this got moved to the Chie forum. I saw an epic thread made by Pepsiman a year ago, we must revive that for the sake of the Revolution!

#34 Posted by MasturbatingBear (1781 posts) -

Are we gonna start having a persona 4 tier list now?

#35 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:

" @mutha3 said:

" Primal Force has a nice crit chance  of  25% , the amount of enemies you'll encouter who are weak to fire are lower then that. Kanji has a  25% chance to knock down 100% of the enemies, while  Yukiko has a 100% chance to knock down 10-15%(its probably lower then that, most enemies in the game are weak to wind)of the enemies. "

But that's incorrect.  There are tons of enemies that have some type of resistance to physicals (Tanks, particularly).  And when you're caught against those enemies, it makes Kanji useless if they also have no weakness to electricity.  And when you're against those enemies, it's easy to down them with elementals instead.
 
Ah, good point. But   you make it sound if Kanji's elec attacks are useless. Unlike Chie, Kanji gets Elec Amp/Boost  and Ziodyne/Maziodyne so even if he won't do as much as Yukiko. Kanji can still do decent damage against enemies with PHYS resistences.
 
Besides, the exact same can be said about Yukiko, however, unlike Kanji she doesn't even have anything to fall back on if an enemy is strong against fire attacks. So she fares even worse.


  Also, I was only S. Link rank 2 with Kanji at the end of the game.  With Yukiko, I was S. Rank 10, so that also lead to my choice. "

 

 Aww... Kanji has one of the best Slinks*sadface*
 
But, this discussion doesn't really matter in the long run,  no party member in P4 is bad enough to not use, so you should just use your favorite characters. 
 
This topic was created because I'm a nerd who likes numbers and wanted to talk about P4.
 
@MasturbatingBear said:

" Are we gonna start having a persona 4 tier list now? "

Too late:P

Top
The MC
 
 High
Teddie
Kanji
 
mid
Yosuke 
Yukiko
 
Low
Naoto  

Bottom
Chie
#36 Posted by Semition (731 posts) -
@mutha3: 
Party buff and Mediahran cost quite a bit of SP. I ran through each dungeon in a single game-day, so until Fox's leaves became cheap enough, I would almost never cast these spells.
#37 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@Semition said:

" @mutha3:  Party buff and Mediahran cost quite a bit of SP. I ran through each dungeon in a single game-day, so until Fox's leaves became cheap enough, I would almost never cast these spells. "

So did I.
 
Never had an issue thanks to these spells , Besides, Party buffs only cost 2 SP more than an Maragidyne and Mediarahan 8.
 
One Primal force= One Diarama anyways. And when you get to that point, Yukiko and/or Teddie will have such High SP that it doesn't matter
#38 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19376 posts) -

Oh man... all of this is making me go crazy.  I NEED Persona 5!  I think I'll just go finish Revelations: Persona and play Persona 2, but they're just not the same...

#39 Edited by mutha3 (4986 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:

" Oh man... all of this is making me go crazy.  I NEED Persona 5!  I think I'll just go finish Revelations: Persona and play Persona 2, but they're just not the same... "

Well i can attest that P2 is pretty damn rad if you can get over shitty   random encounters rate. With P2 part 1 being the better one(its fantranslated so you need to get a patch for that)
 
As for the bolded: WHY ELSE DID YOU THINK I MADE THIS THREAD!!!21221! I'm going crazy here man, I've played through P4 3 times now  (each playthrough taking 55-70 hours )and watched the entire endurance run. I've spend twice as much time playing P4 then any other game and I feel this thread is a result of this repressed demon as well:( I can't stop thinking about what the font colour, setting and gameplay mechanics are gonna be!
 
I think I should lie down again.....
#40 Posted by LordAndrew (14430 posts) -

Even when I realized that Chie's moveset wasn't going to improve, I didn't care. I just like using her.

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