Never played Counter-Strike, but bought it anyways.

#1 Posted by udabenshen (178 posts) -

I never really got into shooters until Unreal 2004 and was always scared of the Counter-Strike games, but I have such goodwill towards Valve after all the extra TF2 modes that I bought it anyways. Anyone else in my boat? Is this your first Counter-Strike?

#2 Posted by jonnyboy (2920 posts) -

Accept the fact those guys have been playing a long time and you will die. A LOT. Once you have come to terms with that you will have a lot of fun.

I've been playing CS Source since '07 so decided to buy the 360 version just to see what that was like, it's got it's issues but it's not bad. I figured the Steam version will be discounted to a few quid pretty soon anyway.

#3 Posted by adam1808 (1496 posts) -

Didn't buy it. Maybe it's just me but I'd like them to try something new with counterstrike. CS:GO seems like another stopgap measure to unify the playerbase again and I'd love it if Valve gave up on that and develop new maps (maybe even leave out dust) and change the formula.

If this is your first CS then it's probably the best version, but you are going to get so worked over by the veterans. They are animals.

#4 Posted by xaLieNxGrEyx (2605 posts) -

It's really not that hard to play

#5 Posted by Brake (1099 posts) -

This might as well be my first CS. I never played too much of 1.6 back in the day and only really dabbled into Source at some point. My experience is kinda up and down with the game. Sometimes I do alright and sometimes I just get completely rocked. It probably has everything to do with either getting hooked up with fellow noobs or complete savages.

#6 Posted by EquitasInvictus (2029 posts) -

I bought it but have yet to play it due to being a little busy lately. This isn't my first Counter-Strike, though, so I know what I'm getting into.

If you afraid of being thrown into the fire off the bat, there's a bunch of Giant Bombers on top of this game. If you're all up on the Giant Bomb PC Gaming Hub, for example, I'm sure this came will appear many times next month. That'd probably be a good place to ease into playing the game.

#7 Posted by ShaggE (6452 posts) -

@adam1808 said:

(maybe even leave out dust)

What are you trying to do, get the Valve folks killed!? Good god, man, thousands of angry CS players storming Valve HQ while screaming "DE_DUST PLOX" and brandishing sharpened keyboards... not even Gabe's knife collection will save him.

#8 Posted by udabenshen (178 posts) -

Thanks for all the encouraging/warning. My steam name is Udabenshen if you need someone to kill easily.

#9 Edited by adam1808 (1496 posts) -

@ShaggE said:

@adam1808 said:

(maybe even leave out dust)

What are you trying to do, get the Valve folks killed!? Good god, man, thousands of angry CS players storming Valve HQ while screaming "DE_DUST PLOX" and brandishing sharpened keyboards... not even Gabe's knife collection will save him.

YES. Tell me something Valve could do that would be more audacious. But seriously, why not change CS up? Its been over a decade of essentially the same game. It's crazy but I want to see a complete visual and gameplay overhaul on par with what they did for TF2 from the original TF mod. Otherwise I don't think I'll ever want to get into CS again.

#10 Posted by Binman88 (3687 posts) -

I'm not new to it, but for some reason bought it again despite having nothing but bad experiences with it in the past. Here's some reasons I'd give as to why it should be avoided:

The shooting model is not my cup of tea at all. I'm not going to say it's bad, but I think it focuses on a lot of not-fun mechanics. Too much random chance despite perfectly lining up your shot -- you basically have to stop, crouch, shoot once or twice, stand up and move, crouch, shoot again, and hope that the random number generator rolls the dice in your favour. If not, you're just fresh out of bullets and at the mercy of your enemy and his backup.

A seemingly reasonable number of body shots will, in most cases, not kill your opponent. You need to make Swiss cheese out of your enemies before they'll topple over. Win the random chance lottery and score a headshot and they'll go down in one though! So consider a situation where you have the advantage of surprise over an opponent. You put two medium-short range shotgun blasts into their backs, they don't die, they spin around and hop to the side, crouch and shoot you in the head while you frantically shoot the air around them. I'm not saying this style of play is unappealing to all people, but I don't like it. I like games where you and your enemies are dead in two or three shots, and importance is placed on the speedy lining up and firing of shots. This is not that type of game. Too much finger crossing.

The whole inaccuracy while moving thing that leads your bullets to hit the Curiosity rover when you jog-and-shoot leads to a lot of camping around the maps. For me, this makes playing and watching rounds excruciatingly boring and slow paced, because the camper has the distinct advantage over the guy trying to find him - so the guy trying to find him will probably crouch and trudge around the map like a snail in deep thought, only to meet a headshot when he comes in view of his opponent.

Movement is weird. I've always found it weird. You might not find it weird. I don't like it.

Some of the maps are decent (though I'd find them a lot more tolerable in a different type of shooter), but some of them are plain poorly designed. I believe half (or more) of the maps are holdovers from the original games, too.

Also, the community is full of asshats, and they're incredibly loud about it. I find them worse than the types you meet in COD. That's saying something.

#11 Posted by falserelic (5436 posts) -
#12 Posted by mubress (1517 posts) -

@Binman88 said:

So consider a situation where you have the advantage of surprise over an opponent. You put two medium-short range shotgun blasts into their backs, they don't die, they spin around and hop to the side, crouch and shoot you in the head while you frantically shoot the air around them.

That sums up quite a few of my encounters when sneaking up behind someone (and it is really infuriating don't get me wrong) but tbh I just get annoyed at myself rather than the game. It may not be realistic for someone to take 4 rounds to the body and still be alive, but the reason it's like that is to stop people doing the old 'spray and pray' and instead encouraging you to go for headshots.

#13 Posted by huntad (1939 posts) -

@jonnyboy said:

I've been playing CS Source since '07 so decided to buy the 360 version just to see what that was like, it's got it's issues but it's not bad.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty positive that the issues are no longer present on the 360. I remember an annoying lag problem during the first day, but later that night it seemed to go away. I've been playing it since and I haven't lagged even once. Just throwing it out there in case people think it still has serious issues.

#14 Posted by mubress (1517 posts) -

@huntad said:

@jonnyboy said:

I've been playing CS Source since '07 so decided to buy the 360 version just to see what that was like, it's got it's issues but it's not bad.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty positive that the issues are no longer present on the 360. I remember an annoying lag problem during the first day, but later that night it seemed to go away. I've been playing it since and I haven't lagged even once. Just throwing it out there in case people think it still has serious issues.

Yep same for me, no problems with lag at all.

#15 Posted by Binman88 (3687 posts) -

@mubress said:

@Binman88 said:

So consider a situation where you have the advantage of surprise over an opponent. You put two medium-short range shotgun blasts into their backs, they don't die, they spin around and hop to the side, crouch and shoot you in the head while you frantically shoot the air around them.

That sums up quite a few of my encounters when sneaking up behind someone (and it is really infuriating don't get me wrong) but tbh I just get annoyed at myself rather than the game. It may not be realistic for someone to take 4 rounds to the body and still be alive, but the reason it's like that is to stop people doing the old 'spray and pray' and instead encouraging you to go for headshots.

I can accept that, but I'm just saying it's not for me. I can't get annoyed at myself because, without trying to sound like a cocky brat, I know I'm an accurate shooter in FPS games and I love games that reward the speedy and accurate placement of your reticule on an opponent. The amount of health plays into that - it's no use being fast and accurate if a couple of taps to the chest or back doesn't drop a dude. Of course there's more that I look for in a FPS game, but if the shooting doesn't feel right to me, I'm unlikely to stick with it for very long.

#16 Posted by believer258 (11899 posts) -

OK, on the subject of Counter Strike being chock full of veterans - that's true. And it's a hard game, no doubt about that. But it's hardly impossible, and it doesn't take insane skill to be able to play the game at a passable level. If you can complete pretty much any shooter on Normal difficulty with a mouse and keyboard, you'll do fine. Besides, most of the nutty motherhumpers are still playing CS 1.6.

...you are playing this on a PC or PS3, right? Not the 360 version that makes you use a controller? 'Cause Counter Strike doesn't feel right with a controller.

Online
#17 Posted by jonnyboy (2920 posts) -

@mubress said:

@huntad said:

@jonnyboy said:

I've been playing CS Source since '07 so decided to buy the 360 version just to see what that was like, it's got it's issues but it's not bad.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty positive that the issues are no longer present on the 360. I remember an annoying lag problem during the first day, but later that night it seemed to go away. I've been playing it since and I haven't lagged even once. Just throwing it out there in case people think it still has serious issues.

Yep same for me, no problems with lag at all.

I wasn't referring to lag, but to things like party chat being disabled in private matches. And if I am forced to use game chat for all modes, then I want a 'Mute All' button.

#18 Posted by Zaccheus (1793 posts) -

@adam1808 said:

Didn't buy it. Maybe it's just me but I'd like them to try something new with counterstrike. CS:GO seems like another stopgap measure to unify the playerbase again and I'd love it if Valve gave up on that and develop new maps (maybe even leave out dust) and change the formula.

If this is your first CS then it's probably the best version, but you are going to get so worked over by the veterans. They are animals.

I just don't see the point of that. Make a new game. Counter-Strike is what it is, it's much like DOTA but with more maps. If you change the game; change the name. Also there isn't that many games like it, it has it's own place in the market. I think it's admirable that they didn't put ADS and a perk system in the game, that's what many other developers would have done.

I have really enjoyed the game, but I also feel like I'm a part of the target demographic. I played a lot of 1.6 eight years ago and didn't like CS:S. It feels great to jump back in now to a new game that still can offer those CS moments that I haven't experienced in any other game. I wonder how many people like me there is through.

#19 Posted by Jackel2072 (2261 posts) -

@adam1808 I would love to see them change CS up. Really I feel like with this integration all valve has done is splintered the community even further. Now we have 1.6 people source people and go people. I really would like some new modes, or practice modes with respawns enabled so I can get use to the way the game feels again.

#20 Posted by shadows_kill (3165 posts) -

I played a free trial of source I believe and thought it was good but never bought it. Bought this with their pre-order deal and I LOVE this game. Sure I die a decent some but then theres other times you get on a roll of some type and its amazing.

#21 Posted by kgb0515 (411 posts) -

I just purchased CS: GO too, and am having a blast with it. I suck horribly, but then again I knew that would be the case and I'm ok with it. It's really the first FPS I have played on PC competitively, and I would have to say that it has really forced me to play other games with more skill. I never really used strafe appropriately before, and now I'm a strafing fool. It kind of reminds me of how I started out on Halo many years ago (badly), but then I ended up being a fairly proficient player.

#22 Edited by Sandwich (1 posts) -

@Binman88: Honestly not really random at all, the best thing about CS is its shooting model I feel. In a game like COD you can unload clips and still be effective, not true at all in CS.

Counter-Strike is a game of intricacies. You need to learn and understand the shooting mechanics of every single weapon in the game. Even spraying (although this is bad 96.8% of the time) can be controlled.

The AK for instance has a dead accurate first shot, a second shot that is similar in accuracy, the third shot jumps quite a bit, and then the shooting arc trails to the left first, then right, then back left - right - left - right. After the first two shots, the AK is terribly inaccurate while spraying, but if you have put in the time working on spray control (individually with every single weapon), you're probably just about doubling the accuracy of your spray.

When spraying with the M4, the first three shots will travel upwards in a close grouping, hit a point at which the bullets will not travel any further upwards, then travel from left to right. So if I'm spraying in cs with an m4, I'm tracking the other guys head while pulling my mouse down, then right, then left, then right, etc to counteract the recoil.

You say counter-strike is not the kind of game where your enemies are dead in a couple shots. CS is pretty much THE game where enemies are dead in only a couple shots. I can't think of any other shooter where engagements tend to end so quickly. If you feel like the shooting model in CS is too random, you just don't understand it well enough at the moment.

Also, you mention crouching a lot. Unbind your crouch key for a little while. There are a lot of situations where crouching feels right but is really just helping to get you killed. Don't get me wrong though, the crouch key is very important. :p

Finally, ALWAYS aim for the head. It takes a couple shots to the body to take out someone who has purchased body armour, but if you aim for the head they start dropping like flies.

#23 Posted by Binman88 (3687 posts) -

@Sandwich: It's late so I'm sorry I can't address everything you said, but my go-to game for weapon behaviour and the game I was talking about killing enemies in two shots is Rainbow Six 3 Raven Shield. Literally two shots from almost any weapon in the game would kill someone - one body or leg shot would gimp them (can no longer run), another would finish them off.

Random was probably the wrong way to describe my feelings about the shooting. It has just never felt right to me, and again, harking back to Raven Shield, I do enjoy games that force you to control the recoil and bullet spread of your weapon. In RVS, there was a big difference between your ability to shoot at different movement speeds and stances. If you stood still and fired a fully automatic weapon straight forward without countering the recoil of the weapon, you'd end up staring at the sky by or before the end of the clip. Even with the recoil under control, there was still a significant amount of weapon bounce and bullet spread (again, depending on your movement speed and stance). It was just overall a lot more predictable, but still required a ton of skill at high levels.

I'm not saying CS is a bad game at all, it just isn't a game for me. I was venting my frustration mostly because of my own stupidity for buying it again, despite my knowledge going in.

#24 Posted by SwaziSpring (46 posts) -

I did play CS 1.5 for a while with bots, but I never played it online. I suppose that makes this my first "real" Counter-Strike experience.

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