Taking over territories in someone else's war

#1 Posted by Dredlockz (346 posts) -

Every time I help some other dude out in a war, I go for the territories I'm interested in, and conquer those.

But it seems that when the war ends, everything goes back to normal, except the main "goal" of the war. So if it was a poland invasion, only the polish territories are taken (and not by me).

So is it even possible to get territories from someone elses war?

For example, say sweeden wants to attack poland, and poland asks denmark (me) for help. I go and take some territories from sweeden I've had my eyes on. But I never get to keep those, even if the war is won. amidoingitwrong?

#2 Posted by tineyoghurt (358 posts) -

So, it has been a while since I played this game, and I barely managed to get a grasp of this game, but I'll try:

To start a war the attacker has to have some kind of claim, either to a territory or a title. In the war the attacker can attack any territory held by the other part, and vice versa. And the winner is the one who manages to take all of the enemies territories, or enough to make the enemy surrender. But the thing is, at the end of the war the only thing the attacker get (if he wins) is what he has laid claim to. And since you aren't the one pressing the claim, you don't get anything, except for a better relationship with your ally.

#3 Posted by Scrawnto (2446 posts) -

@tineyoghurt: Yep, that and any prestige, money, or piety from winning battles, depending on the war.

#4 Posted by Gravier251 (217 posts) -

Yeah, it is as says; all you get out of assisting is better relations with the nation you help.

If you wish to take over territory you have to either:

a) Fabricate claims falsely using one of your council members (Steward or Diplomat I think, has been a while). Then press those claims and use them as grounds to start a war.

b) Weave long terms plots via marriage; if you marry into a royal line, or even that of a duke/lesser noble, any progeny you have should have a claim to that title that you may then press in war.

So to take somewhere over you have to have either a fabricated claim, or a legitimate one. Any unrelated territories you take during the war are handed back once the treaty is drawn up.

Best I did was start the game as the Aelfricson family (owning just Shrewsbury), and through centuries of plotting eventually wound up in charge of scotland, most of england, all of wales and half of ireland and a few regions of France.

Best thing to do is be devious, fabricate claims, use marriages in your favour. Etc. Perhaps propose marriages to the person you helped out, then in future generations invade them using that claim. Also, if you do wish to expand a bunch, be sure that you do not give your vassals absolute freedom to in-fight. It is problematic as upstart nobles can come to solidify decent sized regions, potentially rivaling your own. It is best to give yourself a nice concentrated mass of territories and upgrade them, handing single territories as you expand to hand picked loyal nobles. So long as no single noble is your equal in terms of holdings, if they ever rebel you and (hopefully some loyalists) can put them down and replace them with someone obedient.

Anyway, the game is highly political, and you are sadly bound by all that pesky feudal etiquette. Unless you get the DLC and play an Islamic nation, then you can go to war pretty much at will, on a whim. Best of luck seeking glory for your dynasty, hope some of this helps :)

#5 Posted by Dredlockz (346 posts) -

thanks a lot guys, I appreciate it.

You're totally right. I just tried to use it that way.

So if you're helping X country take over Y, and Z is helping Y, you can help X and then start a war against Z using the same war as a casus belli, and get the turf you're after. Haha, dunno if that made any sense.

#6 Posted by Gravier251 (217 posts) -

@Dredlockz: Well, you can't really use that war as your casus belli to gain land. You have no real issues/claims on nation Z at that time, and merely fight them because they are in league with nation Y there. After the war you will all part ways, get some glory and nation Z won't be too fond of you, but you won't have their land.

Instead it is often best to build up money for mercenaries and await a war like that, then rather than expressly joining merely to assist, instead press a claim you have either fabricated or got due to marriage. With them fighting a war on many fronts you will have an easier time, and coming in fresh with mercenaries can really tip the scale. For instance, get a claim to english land, wait for them to be beset by civil war, or be invading elsewhere, give them a while to have mobilized and commited all their forces, then declare war upon them for the land you want.

There are times when an allied war can net you land, but that is usually in aid of a larger plot. e.g. I married my king to a rebellious noble who had a claim on the scottish throne. I encouraged her to rebel and then assisted helping her become queen. They had a son, which is of course of my dynasty. Then when the time came and both parents passed on the kid inherited all of scotland and ireland in one fell swoop. Though the moron had got himself excommunicated so holding onto both while low on glory/respect in the eyes of his peers, along with being seen as a foreigner in scotland made it a real... messy transition.

Anyway, you may only take territories in a war that you lay claim to when declaring the war. There are from what I recall 3 sorts of claims you can make, or 4 in fact;

1)Fabricated (false claims, you may aswell always have your guy fabricating claims somewhere if you wish to expand, eventually he will forge you some documents to use to gain land in war).

2)Succession claimants. A child always has claim to his parents land from both sides from what I recall. So if you marry some foreign princess and have a child, when he becomes the ruler he may press that claim as a cause for war.

3) De Jure claims, if I remember right are claims due to geographical region and Duchy titles. For instance if you own 2/3 of the territories in wales, and you create/grab a title like "Duchy/Duke of Wales", by rights the other third of that territory is technically yours, so you may press war by rights of them holding land that is yours by title and due to your prominence owning the land of that region, if that makes sense.

4)Crusade. Any heretical nation, be it excommunicated or of a "heretical" nation is fair game for invading, the pope and other Christian rulers are fine with it, they may even help you. But it is usually more hassle than it is worth. An English king waging war for land in Africa may get lucky and grab some land. But holding land so far away when half a dozen nations call a Jihad upon you and that land is another matter entirely.

Main thing to keep in mind, is just plot. Be devious, abuse friend and foe alike and over the generations slowly but surely absorb their land. The game is certainly complex, but it is rather satisfying once you have some plots go to plan :)

#7 Posted by Dredlockz (346 posts) -

@Gravier251: Oh right, I think I actually started a new war using a new "holy war" as a casus belli, and not using the already ongoing war, man I'm so lost in this game :D

Thanks a lot for the help, that makes a lot of sense. I really need to play close attention to all the decisions that are going on, and use them to reinforce my goals. Since I keep just marrying or appointing people according to character stats, and not politics. So I end up marrying my kids to people I really shouldn't.

I'm loving the game so far tho, appreciate you taking the time to explain how that works. :)

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