Confusion with connecting to other players.

#1 Posted by Bellowhead (2 posts) -

Hello, Giant Bombers!

So unlike Dark Souls, Dark Souls II has this soul memory thing, right? You connect to people based on how many souls you've gained throughout the playthrough, rather than just your level. This is kinda lame, in my opinion, as it combined with the not-as-available red eye orbs means it's difficult to make a dedicated invasion character. I loved making low-level pyromancers in Dark Souls for some jolly PvP ... I don't know whether this statement will make me unpopular, but hey, it's fun.

So anyway I decided to try making a PvP character in Dark Souls II by getting into the Brotherhood of Blood as quickly as possible. This, I thought, was a stroke of genius! Get in at a low level (soul memory 40k, including chariot and dragon rider boss fights) and duel with other low-level players to earn some red eye orbs, and then go and do some fighting. Brilliant, yes? No.

The people I'm dueling against are NO WAY within the Soul Memory +/- 25% range. I'm pretty much in my starting gear and people are coming at me with all kinds of mid/late-game gear. Obviously, with my soul arrows and minimal stats, I get flattened every time.

What's the deal here? Do From just not want us invading as much this time around? I have noticed significantly less invasions now; I completed the majority of the game in the Way of Blue and wasn't invaded even once, so never saw a Blue Sentinel. If you do decide to level up and join the Brotherhood later, surely the orbs you get for winning duels will only be worthwhile for a period in each area, before you gain souls from invading and are forced to move elsewhere.

Maybe this will just take some getting used to, but it seems crap to me.

#2 Edited by Spoonman671 (4774 posts) -

So you're upset that your attempt at twinking in Dark Souls 2 led to you getting spanked by people who were better prepared than you? Doesn't sound like a problem with the game to me.

#3 Edited by Mirado (1057 posts) -

In my eighty hours of play on PC, I was invaded once. Certainly took an element of danger out of the game.

Soul Memory is both broken and fine as is; on one hand, it helps reduce the instances of end game gear on low level invaders. But, on the other hand, as long as you need to beat the host with skill (define that as you like) rather than being carried by your equipment, I think they should let you do it. Invaders are there to kill you, and since the penalty for death is so small, I don't see a problem with it.

They put Way of Blue in for a reason; if you can't handle being invaded by people with a lot more experience but similar levels and gear, then join that and let the fuzz handle it.

Where Soul Memory REALLY falls apart is in co-op. As a proud Heir of the Sun, NG co-op dried up fast once I hit a certain threshold, and while NG+ co-op seems to be more prevalent, I'd rather help new players stuck on a boss than people who should be able to handle them on their own.

In a perfect world, they could clamp down on the hacking problem and devise a better system for keeping end game equipment out of the hands of low level invaders, thus removing the need for soul memory, but as it stands, I'd hope they'd at least free co-op from it. While you may feel a lack of fulfillment when you summon me in and I waste the boss with sunlight spears before you can even swing at him, it's better than getting invaded in FoFG by dudes with Moonlight Greatswords or dual Avelyns. No one will get frustrated by someone being too helpful, so let me use the character I invested in.

#4 Posted by audioBusting (1649 posts) -

I've seen many fair invasions myself, maybe it has something to do with the number of players nearby. It's been a lot more fun to get invaded than what it was like in the previous game, so I'm glad they made it a lot harder to be "professional" invaders. I'm guessing that the people with late-game gear avoided killing enemies on purpose to keep a low soul memory for a few unfair duels.

#5 Posted by Xymox (2115 posts) -
The people I'm dueling against are NO WAY within the Soul Memory +/- 25% range.

That's because the game isn't putting you against people within 25% range. It's using a tier based system, not a percent based system.

Contrary to common belief, CREO can't be used to invade downwards - only upwards (I think 3 tiers up) or equal to the tier you're on, much unlike how it worked in DS where you'd have a higher chance invading those weaker than you.

At 40 000 soul memory you have just entered tier 5, which means you are invading people who have acquired between 40 000-109,999 soul memory (source: http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/254ty1/soul_memory_tiers_and_exact_ranges_for/).

Once you hit exactly 15M soul memory, you get tier capped and can co-op/pvp with anyone with a higher soul memory than you (meaning it's pointless to ever stop leveling, which again is different from DS where you could stay at like SL 60/70 etc and have some fun dueling)

@mirado said:
No one will get frustrated by someone being too helpful, so let me use the character I invested in.

I agree. Helping people fight bosses is also the most fun I'm having with the game, but after a few fights, I end up in a higher tier, and summon time changes from 20 seconds to 10+ minutes... Co-op should be tied to SL, not SM. Would absolutely love making boss twinks at different levels. But I guess it makes sense... Once you run a boss a few times you're able to rofflestomp it, and maybe soul memory is a good way to ... actually I don't know what it's good for when it comes to co-op.

#6 Posted by Bellowhead (2 posts) -

So you're upset that your attempt at twinking in Dark Souls 2 led to you getting spanked by people who were better prepared than you? Doesn't sound like a problem with the game to me.

Well, not really. I'm not trying to go into these invasions with extra equipment, unless you mean the red eye orbs themselves. I just enjoy low-level PVP, and that was fun in Dark Souls and doesn't work in Dark Souls II. I used to love the fear of having someone jumping into my game when I was still weak, whether that's through twinking or just invasions.

@xymox said:

@bellowhead said:
The people I'm dueling against are NO WAY within the Soul Memory +/- 25% range.

That's because the game isn't putting you against people within 25% range. It's using a tier based system, not a percent based system.

I'm guessing that the people with late-game gear avoided killing enemies on purpose to keep a low soul memory for a few unfair duels.

Hm, tier-based system allows for some higher-level players but not that much. If you're right, and my tier can give me opponents with 100k SM, how am I coming up against people with gear from the Iron Keep? I'm not saying it's impossible, but the bosses alone must get you to above that level. I haven't tested that though, so maybe not.

#7 Posted by Karkarov (3286 posts) -

@mirado said:

In a perfect world, they could clamp down on the hacking problem and devise a better system for keeping end game equipment out of the hands of low level invaders, thus removing the need for soul memory, but as it stands, I'd hope they'd at least free co-op from it. While you may feel a lack of fulfillment when you summon me in and I waste the boss with sunlight spears before you can even swing at him, it's better than getting invaded in FoFG by dudes with Moonlight Greatswords or dual Avelyns. No one will get frustrated by someone being too helpful, so let me use the character I invested in.

I feel what you are saying here. I think in new releases they should look at maybe giving the co op specific covenants (like the Sunbro's) special perks where simply put.... their sign is visible to everyone and not subject to soul level or soul memory. Yeah maybe this will make a boss stupidly easy for some low level players... but who cares? I think the issue is From in general opposes outright co op, they want you to feel like you are basically alone and any ally you have is one of convenience and impermanence. I myself am already feeling the soul memory choke hold at around 500k souls but at the same time I have been invaded by someone in full upgraded havels duel wielding full upgraded dragons tooth either.

We will just have to see how it goes when I enter NG+.

#8 Edited by Mirado (1057 posts) -

While a bit of a pain if you aren't using a memory editor, it is possible to have end game gear on low level characters. Usually, the method for doing this involves having one late game character drop gear during co-op or an invasion for the lower level character. Just keep in mind that most equipment isn't totally busted (there are some pieces that would unbalance the game at a low level, but most of the more common late game items won't make for autowin fights), especially if it's damage relies on scaling rather than infusions. Santier's Spear = always OP thanks to it's moveset, but an ultra greatsword can be avoided even if one hit would be death, so the extra punch of, say, a Pursuer's UG can be mitigated even at low levels.

@karkarov My experience with NG+ has led me to believe either the restrictions on Co-op are much reduced, or just more people are at a higher SM. I've had no problem finding people to help once I made the transition, it's just that...well, maybe I'm being picky but I'd rather help NEW players without having to reroll characters than people on their second run through. Plus, it shows how broken SM really is; I've had a pile of invasions during NG+ and next to none during my 2nd NG character playthrough. What the hell, FS? I don't want to deal with fast rolling Havel wearing dual Avelyn shooting assholes, those fights are tedious and get boring when you see the same build over and over. The NG, low level stuff (both in jolly co-op and the minor amount of PvP I get into) is where the real meat of the game is for me, and I'm a bit sad that From decided to curtail that aspect so heavily.

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