Dark Souls II Edge Article with new information.

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#1 Edited by Deusx (1910 posts) -

Dark Souls II Edge Article with new information.

I saw no one posting it so I decided to do so. Coming to ya with the fresh scoops yo! Enjoy:

More information (don't be an idiot)

Please keep the thread civil as we don't have much more information than this and everything else is pure speculation. As the article explains, Shibuya wants to keep the game true to it's core but bring new experiences and accessibility to the game in terms of gameplay (better ways to explain the systems and easier ways for people to take advantage of them). Please don't start the thread with "Damn casuals" or "Dark Souls II is going to be shit". You don't know about these stuff yet and so you shouldn't jump to conclusions. Other thing, don't come to this thread with the old "Dark Souls needs an easy mode" shit. If you think that way then either go and watch THIS or just abstain from posting.

If you like speculating then I will leave a couple of videos by ENB talking about the trailer and such.

TL;DR

The fine people from Neogaf made a list of the facts we know from both the interview and the trailer:

-Huge leap in graphical quality. The game is compared to Watch Dogs and Star Wars 1313. Dynamic lighting and smoother animations all around.

-Hidetake Miyazaki, the director for Dark/Demon's souls, will not be directing the game and will only be lightly involved in the production. To be perfectly honest it basically seems like his name is there to be there- his involvement is mostly about getting the project started and occasionally checking in on it.

-The unknown nature of the games came from Miyazaki's interest in western fantasy/mythology and his relative inability to read the English text as a child, leaving him to fill in the blanks.

-Miyazaki was disappointed about having to patch Dark Souls, saying that they pushed the game out without being 100% complete. Dark Souls II will be complete when it launches.

-Server based PVP is back (yay!)

-The information about the directors for the game is worrying. Information is unclear whether or not Miyazaki willingly stepped down from the director's chair. Namco calls is a "company decision" and has this disturbing anecdote to share:

"For the IP to evolve and provide a new experience within the Dark Souls world the new wind from directors Shibuya and Tanimura is key to providing players with a brand new Dark Souls experience. In order to maintain expectations and satisfaction and the rewards players experience this was the time to bring in new characteristics and tastes of the directors for the series to continue evolving."

-Miyazaki is working on a new game he can't talk about.

-The Graphics are shockingly close to the trailer's quality.

-According to Shibuya, one of the co-directors, the player's ability to parse meaning from subtle hints or clues will determine the difficulty of the game and the challenges that are there to experience.

-The map is roughly the same size, but has more content and more "areas of interest".

-The notion that Dark Souls needs to evolve was "common". Edge says not to expect a minor update.

-In designing map areas, the main concept was to create areas that had not been in either game.

-Talks of implementing a system that will let you reveal the clues you've learned over the course of the game (wut?)

-Shibuya talks about "limiting players options for the early portion of the game, making it simpler to understand new concepts. Then, after a certain amount of time has elapsed, they will suddenly experience the true dark souls experience".

- Edge says they were shown a 10 minute playthrough of Dark Souls 2, and it is a huge step forward graphically. It looks on par with Watch Dogs and Star Wars 1313 in terms of "next-gen"-ness, or so they claim.

- Miyazaki is not working on the development of Dark Souls 2. He is not a director or producer, and is merely a "supervisor".

- Even as a supervisor, he isn't making any development decisions. He only tried to reinforce the team's commitment to releasing things on time, because of the bad experience they had with the patches in Dark Souls, and he also recommended the return to server-based gameplay ala Demon's Souls.

- The new directors, Tomohiro Shibuya and Yui Tanimura, are indeed the From Software staff who previously directed the Another Century's Episode series. The decision to have the two directors replace Miyazaki was a company decision made by both From Software and Namco Bandai Games to help move the series forward in a fresh direction.

- Miyazaki is working full time on directing a new game. He will not disclose if it is a new IP or a sequel to something else.

- Darks Souls 2 will be a direct sequel, and have an open world of about the same size, but more dense with content.

- It does not take place on Lordran. The name of the world is the key of the story, they will reveal it at a later date.

- One thing Shibuya wants to enhance is the action in the game. He feels that he can contribute because of his experience working on action games in the past.

- Shibuya says he wants to make things like the Covenant system clearer and more accessible, and he wants to make the story and messaging less subtle.

- He promises there will still be "hidden" elements in the story and world which can be missed.

- Development started in September last year, and was done in parallel with some of the Dark Souls patches and DLC content.

- The game is 25% complete, and the team is substantially larger than Dark Souls. The world creation internal staff for the sequel is nearly double that of the first game.

- The game might not make it for 2013.

- They showed a fat grotesque creature, which Shibuya said was the result of the fusing of different creatures by a mad scientist character in the game, like Frankenstein.

- Another new enemy is a Nazgul-like black rider, who apparently serves as an executioner of evil doers. Shibuya confirms there is some sort of morality system in the game.

Praise the Unbasa!

#2 Posted by DelroyLindo (387 posts) -

To be honest, I'm all for them making the way covenants work and certain story elements clearer. The majority of people just looked all that stuff up on the wiki's anyway so it wont make a substantial difference if that information is readily available in-game

#3 Edited by SirOptimusPrime (2030 posts) -

One thing Shibuya wants to enhance is the action in the game. He feels that he can contribute because of his experience working on action games in the past.

This is the only thing that truly worries me. I know I would hate this game if it became more like Dragon's Dogma or Bayonetta, or just less finely-tuned like Monster Hunter since that's Shibuya's past. Everything else sounds either too vague to really worry about yet or is a good idea and we have to wait for the implementation to know whether or not those are good changes.

#4 Posted by Turtlebird95 (2565 posts) -

Guessing it'll probably be a next gen title.

#5 Posted by eroticfishcake (7787 posts) -

Already read it earlier but thanks for the scans. In any case it certainly sounds intriguing in terms of the directions they're taking it. Whether they're going to implement those well while retaining the Soul's experience is too early to tell but either way this should be interesting.

#6 Posted by MildMolasses (3228 posts) -

@DelroyLindo said:

To be honest, I'm all for them making the way covenants work and certain story elements clearer. The majority of people just looked all that stuff up on the wiki's anyway so it wont make a substantial difference if that information is readily available in-game

This is part of the reason why I don't understood people's objection to it being more accessible. Didn't most people just turn to the internet to help them through the game?

#7 Edited by Deusx (1910 posts) -

@SirOptimusPrime said:

One thing Shibuya wants to enhance is the action in the game. He feels that he can contribute because of his experience working on action games in the past.

This is the only thing that truly worries me. I know I would hate this game if it became more like Dragon's Dogma or Bayonetta, or just less finely-tuned like Monster Hunter since that's Shibuya's past. Everything else sounds either too vague to really worry about yet or is a good idea and we have to wait for the implementation to know whether or not those are good changes.

I understand your worry but I don't think (or at least I hope) they don't go that rout. He already stated he wants to keep the same controls so that's already a good sign that the new mechanics will only enhance the combat to be more exciting. I think we can see this as the minor differences (that change a lot) in the combat from DeS to DaS.

@MildMolasses said:

@DelroyLindo said:

To be honest, I'm all for them making the way covenants work and certain story elements clearer. The majority of people just looked all that stuff up on the wiki's anyway so it wont make a substantial difference if that information is readily available in-game

This is part of the reason why I don't understood people's objection to it being more accessible. Didn't most people just turn to the internet to help them through the game?

I don't think people are afraid of the game's mechanics being more understandable but accessibility is a scary word in a game like this. The fact that you had to learn things for yourself instead of someone telling you everything about the game was one of the key things that made Dark Souls the game that it is today, let's hope they are wise when making changes to that stuff. I am not against making the game easier to understand, I am against removing the mystery and challenge of the game.

#8 Posted by Korolev (1722 posts) -

OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD.

HE SAID THAT THINGS WOULD CHANGE! CHANGE FRIGHTENS ME! ANGERS ME.

NO CHANGE! NO CHANGE! IT WILL BE WORSE THAN BEFORE! I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE CHANGES, BUT I CAN STILL GUARANTEE THAT EVERY CHANGE WILL BE BAD! BECAUSE CHANCE IS BAD! CHANGE IS SCARY! CHANGE IS BAD! NEVER CHANGE! EVER!

CONFIRMED: DARK SOULS II IS EXACTLY, EXACTLY LIKE FARMVILLE IN EVERY WAY AND IT IS TOTALLY BEING REDESIGNED FOR ONLY CASUALS AND I HATE EVERYTHING NOW.

YES I FORGOT TO TAKE MY PILLS TODAY.

#9 Edited by Fredchuckdave (6002 posts) -

Well if it's next gen won't be playing it for 2-3 years at least, oh well. Didn't play Demon's Souls until 2010 so I think I'll be alright, maybe try not to spoil the game too much for myself. Played Demon's Souls mostly blind and Dark Souls completely blind; easily the best way to go about it.

#10 Posted by Deusx (1910 posts) -

@Korolev:

#11 Posted by jakob187 (21731 posts) -

I need it now. Knowing that it'll be 2014 before I get to play it is going to KILL ME!

#12 Posted by TwoLines (2826 posts) -

"Shibuya says he wants to make things like the Covenant system clearer and more accessible, and he wants to make the story and messaging less subtle."

Mmm... I don't like that.

#13 Posted by Turambar (6847 posts) -

Eh? I thought the new project director had Monster Hunter experience? Another Century Episode is a faster paced mecha action game (think Super Robot Wars mixed with Zone of Enders). I don't see that experience translating that well into the per-existing combat style of a Souls game.

#14 Posted by Turambar (6847 posts) -

@MildMolasses said:

@DelroyLindo said:

To be honest, I'm all for them making the way covenants work and certain story elements clearer. The majority of people just looked all that stuff up on the wiki's anyway so it wont make a substantial difference if that information is readily available in-game

This is part of the reason why I don't understood people's objection to it being more accessible. Didn't most people just turn to the internet to help them through the game?

The Dark Wraith covenant wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't hidden. Regardless of how players ultimately came to learn of it, the way it was presented in game is a pretty key component of the overall world of Lordran.

#15 Posted by John1912 (1928 posts) -

Yea, most of this sounds like shit....It all rings too much of corporate BS.

#16 Posted by Ares42 (2775 posts) -

I'm more worried about what little we heard from Bamco than what Shibuya had to say. Although the idea that Miyazaki got moved to a different project purely because they wanted more new IPs is enticing, if it's more than just Edge theorizing that is. The idea that Souls series needed to "evolve and provide a new experience" is debatable... I guess it depends on how you interpret it. In the end though, I think it's important to remember that we're talking about a Japanese company, so respecting the roots of the series is probably quite important.

#17 Posted by Brackstone (84 posts) -

I think the introduction of vehicles is the most interesting news for me. The level design is certainly going to be quite different for that fact alone. And I wonder how that will affect the online play. I can imagine situations where someone invades just for the host to ride off into the sunset.

#18 Posted by Turambar (6847 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Turambar said:

Eh? I thought the new project director had Monster Hunter experience? Another Century Episode is a faster paced mecha action game (think Super Robot Wars mixed with Zone of Enders). I don't see that experience translating that well into the per-existing combat style of a Souls game.

He was apparently at Capcom before FROM and is credited as Chief Designer on at least the original Monster Hunter and Monster Hunter Freedom 2. His experience with Another Century's Episode could simply be from the most recent two titles.

Actually, reading up on the Neogaff thread, it was noted that they are two different guys. There is a different Shibuya at MobyGames that worked on MH games. These two directors are From employees that have had no experience out side of ACE. That...does not fill me with much confidence. I don't dislike ACE games, but it does not match with the style of a Souls game, at all.

#19 Posted by Grissefar (2842 posts) -

Fuck that, it might as well be EA publishing. While Dark Souls II might not suck a hard dick, but the time Dark Souls III comes around it will probably be unrecognizable. I'm thinking no death penalty, lightning fast attacks, a linear world without secrets, and microtransactions.

#20 Posted by Turambar (6847 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Turambar said:

Actually, reading up on the Neogaff thread, it was noted that they are two different guys. There is a different Shibuya at MobyGames that worked on MH games. These two directors are From employees that have had no experience out side of ACE. That...does not fill me with much confidence. I don't dislike ACE games, but it does not match with the style of a Souls game, at all.

That's way more unnerving. Still, it just means that we have absolutely no idea what these guys can do in the context of a Dark Souls game which is pretty much the same position that we were in before.

Edit: Actually this, combined with his comments since the release of Dark Souls, makes it seem more likely to me that Miyazaki may have walked away by choice. Huh.

Miyazaki said he was "disappointed he didn't have a bigger role in the game", so I doubt that. At this point, I am far more interested in what Miyazaki's new project is than Dark Souls 2.

#21 Posted by Animasta (14718 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@MildMolasses said:

@DelroyLindo said:

To be honest, I'm all for them making the way covenants work and certain story elements clearer. The majority of people just looked all that stuff up on the wiki's anyway so it wont make a substantial difference if that information is readily available in-game

This is part of the reason why I don't understood people's objection to it being more accessible. Didn't most people just turn to the internet to help them through the game?

The Dark Wraith covenant wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't hidden. Regardless of how players ultimately came to learn of it, the way it was presented in game is a pretty key component of the overall world of Lordran.

that was one covenant though.

No reason they can't have 9 clearly (or mildly clear I guesss) laid out covenants and one hidden one

#22 Edited by JackSukeru (5949 posts) -

I am as cautiously optimistic about this news as ever. Strongly optimistic and excited to see what will change, yet unable to get the bitter taste of "what if" out of my mouth. What if they manage to mess it up?

As things are now I'm not very stingy with the Dark Souls formula and would accept a great deal of change, but there are still limits. Whether this will turn out good or bad I'm very eager to see it.

Also I'm psyched for better graphix.

Edit: Reread this and it is far too, I dunno, neutral? How about, "even if it's not Dark Souls anymore I'm pretty sure I would still enjoy it"? I've been known to enjoy non-dark souls games in the past.

#23 Posted by Turambar (6847 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Turambar said:

@MildMolasses said:

@DelroyLindo said:

To be honest, I'm all for them making the way covenants work and certain story elements clearer. The majority of people just looked all that stuff up on the wiki's anyway so it wont make a substantial difference if that information is readily available in-game

This is part of the reason why I don't understood people's objection to it being more accessible. Didn't most people just turn to the internet to help them through the game?

The Dark Wraith covenant wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't hidden. Regardless of how players ultimately came to learn of it, the way it was presented in game is a pretty key component of the overall world of Lordran.

that was one covenant though.

No reason they can't have 9 clearly (or mildly clear I guesss) laid out covenants and one hidden one

But the mechanics of those covenants were perfectly clear, with Nito's covenant being the only other one that had some mystery to how to access it. What, do you want the game to make it crystal clear that the Chaos Sister's covenant revolves around giving the Fair Lady humanity so as to relieve her the pains of her illness, despite the fact that it was original designed to specifically require a secret ring to acquire her dialogue, making her true state all the more of a surprise when you finally found out? Or do you want the truth of the forest hunters laid out plainly via dialogue or codex, being a group that was not meant to really protect the forest itself, but to actually protect Sif and the grave of Artorias due to Alvina's history with the two as traveling companions, something you wouldn't be able to find out without fitting together clues found both within the main game and within the DLC? Fuck that shit, I want that kept vague, and requiring player effort to discover.

#24 Posted by RustySanderke (117 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@rebgav said:

@Turambar said:

Eh? I thought the new project director had Monster Hunter experience? Another Century Episode is a faster paced mecha action game (think Super Robot Wars mixed with Zone of Enders). I don't see that experience translating that well into the per-existing combat style of a Souls game.

He was apparently at Capcom before FROM and is credited as Chief Designer on at least the original Monster Hunter and Monster Hunter Freedom 2. His experience with Another Century's Episode could simply be from the most recent two titles.

Actually, reading up on the Neogaff thread, it was noted that they are two different guys. There is a different Shibuya at MobyGames that worked on MH games. These two directors are From employees that have had no experience out side of ACE. That...does not fill me with much confidence. I don't dislike ACE games, but it does not match with the style of a Souls game, at all.

Miyazaki made Armored Core games before he made Demon's Souls, which don't match the Souls style either.

Shibuya declining to comment on whether the game will be released before the next-gen and their claims of proper frame-rate and use of technology that was too demanding for use in Dark Souls, makes me doubt whether this is coming to 360 and PS3 like they said.

#25 Posted by Turambar (6847 posts) -

@RustySanderke said:

@Turambar said:

@rebgav said:

@Turambar said:

Eh? I thought the new project director had Monster Hunter experience? Another Century Episode is a faster paced mecha action game (think Super Robot Wars mixed with Zone of Enders). I don't see that experience translating that well into the per-existing combat style of a Souls game.

He was apparently at Capcom before FROM and is credited as Chief Designer on at least the original Monster Hunter and Monster Hunter Freedom 2. His experience with Another Century's Episode could simply be from the most recent two titles.

Actually, reading up on the Neogaff thread, it was noted that they are two different guys. There is a different Shibuya at MobyGames that worked on MH games. These two directors are From employees that have had no experience out side of ACE. That...does not fill me with much confidence. I don't dislike ACE games, but it does not match with the style of a Souls game, at all.

Miyazaki made Armored Core games before he made Demon's Souls, which don't match the Souls style either.

Shibuya declining to comment on whether the game will be released before the next-gen and their claims of proper frame-rate and use of technology that was too demanding for use in Dark Souls, makes me doubt whether this is coming to 360 and PS3 like they said.

Shibuya specifically said he wants to improve the action in the Souls games based on his experience with action in the ACE games. Miyazaki never said, to my knowledge, his experience with fast action was a component of how the far slower paced action of the Souls games came into being.

#26 Posted by Nights (618 posts) -

@Korolev said:

OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD.

HE SAID THAT THINGS WOULD CHANGE! CHANGE FRIGHTENS ME! ANGERS ME.

NO CHANGE! NO CHANGE! IT WILL BE WORSE THAN BEFORE! I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE CHANGES, BUT I CAN STILL GUARANTEE THAT EVERY CHANGE WILL BE BAD! BECAUSE CHANCE IS BAD! CHANGE IS SCARY! CHANGE IS BAD! NEVER CHANGE! EVER!

CONFIRMED: DARK SOULS II IS EXACTLY, EXACTLY LIKE FARMVILLE IN EVERY WAY AND IT IS TOTALLY BEING REDESIGNED FOR ONLY CASUALS AND I HATE EVERYTHING NOW.

YES I FORGOT TO TAKE MY PILLS TODAY.

It is, at the very least, a bit disconcerting. I realize some people have already written off Dark Souls II before they've even played it, but I can see where they're coming from. I'll remain cautiously optimistic because it's entirely possible that this new direction is a change for the worse. We'll have to wait and see. Change isn't always a good thing, and I've seen my fair share of franchises "change direction" in order to appeal to a broader audience. It's not like this sort of thing is unprecedented.

#27 Posted by kishinfoulux (2467 posts) -

As I said in another topic, this is the turning point in the series for the worse (well to most fans).

Namco needs to realize WHO got the Souls series to where it is now. It's the hard cores. Now they're trying to be greedy and appeal to the casuals as well and as a result will lose everybody.

#28 Posted by xyzygy (10065 posts) -

I think more of the same would be bad for this series. Namco's decision to change things up is good because, as much as I love Demons and Dark, I coudlnt' see myslf enjoying the exact same type of game again.

#29 Posted by Demoskinos (15103 posts) -

Im laughing at all the dummies jumping to conclusions. Keep being ridiculous!

#30 Posted by Deusx (1910 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

Im laughing at all the dummies jumping to conclusions. Keep being ridiculous!

Exactly this. Calm down people! Some of you are outright dismissing a game that hasn't even come out yet. I made this thread for people to speculate and argue without acting like autistic fanboys/haters. Please, you know almost NOTHING about the game, abstain from making dumb assumptions Give it the benefit of doubt. After all that From Software has done for the fans they deserve at least that.

#31 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4867 posts) -

I really think people are conflating a tighter, smoother user experience with a retardation in difficulty. They're not mutually exclusive, you guys.

Ninja Gaiden Black was a silky smooth user experience that explained its mechanics to the player and wasn't obtuse about critical information. That game is still hard as fuck.

#32 Posted by freakin9 (1171 posts) -

I hate that I didn't like Dark Souls. Given that Demon's Souls might've been my favorite game of this generation.

As it stands, my interest for this is only in hearing about it, but I doubt I'll be playing it.

#33 Edited by Deusx (1910 posts) -

@Oldirtybearon said:

I really think people are conflating a tighter, smoother user experience with a retardation in difficulty. They're not mutually exclusive, you guys.

Ninja Gaiden Black was a silky smooth user experience that explained its mechanics to the player and wasn't obtuse about critical information. That game is still hard as fuck.

Have you even played Dark Souls? The game is difficult (patience, determination, and knowledge required, not manual dexterity) even if you know the mechanics to death, if that difficulty is removed, the game dies. People have a right to be afraid of the game being too direct, the fact that all the mechanics in Dark Souls are so obscure only adds to why the game is so appealing in the first place. That said, I do think it's stupid for people to jump to conclusions.

@freakin9 said:

I hate that I didn't like Dark Souls. Given that Demon's Souls might've been my favorite game of this generation.

As it stands, my interest for this is only in hearing about it, but I doubt I'll be playing it.

Go play it man! If you get stuck or can't get through a section, there's a lot of information and thousands of fans ready to help you through it. Don't think you're alone in feeling the game is difficult. You will feel very rewarded if you take the risk.

#34 Posted by Morbid_Coffee (955 posts) -
-Server based PVP is back (yay!)

Yes!

-According to Shibuya, one of the co-directors, the player's ability to parse meaning from subtle hints or clues will determine the difficulty of the game and the challenges that are there to experience.

Uh...

-The map is roughly the same size, but has more content and more "areas of interest".

Awesome!

-Talks of implementing a system that will let you reveal the clues you've learned over the course of the game (wut?)

Huh?

-Shibuya talks about "limiting players options for the early portion of the game, making it simpler to understand new concepts. Then, after a certain amount of time has elapsed, they will suddenly experience the true dark souls experience".

Fuck no.

- Darks Souls 2 will be a direct sequel, and have an open world of about the same size, but more dense with content.

Back to yes!

- One thing Shibuya wants to enhance is the action in the game. He feels that he can contribute because of his experience working on action games in the past.

Better boss AI is a plus!

- Shibuya says he wants to make things like the Covenant system clearer and more accessible...

Also yes!

... and he wants to make the story and messaging less subtle.

Fuck you again.

- The game might not make it for 2013.

Aww...but then again next gen Dark Souls?

Shibuya confirms there is some sort of morality system in the game.

Sounds neat!

#35 Edited by pyrodactyl (2277 posts) -

The only thing that would've been interesting to learn from the article is, from the 10 min gameplay demo they saw, did it look like dark souls? Was the combat and progression trough levels hard and methodical? If they can say that the animations were fluid and elegant, why the fuck isn't there any comments on the gameplay?

Making the story less reliant on reading every item description is a good thing (unless they make it all up in your face). Making the covenant system clearer and more approachable is also good since the execution in dark souls was clumsy at best(i.e. you needed a FAQ to access the most interesting covenants and you couldn't join the darkwraths if you didn't read said FAQ before a certain point in the story. Complete bullshit.)

So if they improve certain points, dark souls 2 could be better than the first. The only dealbreaker will be the gameplay and that's what makes this article near useless. I guess we'll have to wait for the first in game trailer to find out if Namco is following the exemple of IO and ubisoft, experts at fucking up great hard core franchises to the altar of wider appeal.

Side note:

@Deusx said:

- The game might not make it for 2013.

That means the game will come out in 2014 at the earlyess so we have plenty of time. Chill

#36 Posted by Nights (618 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Turambar said:

@rebgav said:

@Turambar said:

Actually, reading up on the Neogaff thread, it was noted that they are two different guys. There is a different Shibuya at MobyGames that worked on MH games. These two directors are From employees that have had no experience out side of ACE. That...does not fill me with much confidence. I don't dislike ACE games, but it does not match with the style of a Souls game, at all.

That's way more unnerving. Still, it just means that we have absolutely no idea what these guys can do in the context of a Dark Souls game which is pretty much the same position that we were in before.

Edit: Actually this, combined with his comments since the release of Dark Souls, makes it seem more likely to me that Miyazaki may have walked away by choice. Huh.

Miyazaki said he was "disappointed he didn't have a bigger role in the game", so I doubt that. At this point, I am far more interested in what Miyazaki's new project is than Dark Souls 2.

Doesn't really matter at this point though. FROM has a history of making decent action RPGs, I don't think they'll be able to fuck this up too badly even if it ends up not being very Soulsy. I'm still interested in the game but that interest is tempered by skepticism. Like you, I'm more interested in whatever Miyazaki is doing.

A bit of a contradiction, no?

#37 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4867 posts) -

@Deusx: Yeah I did play Dark Souls. I've been playing it since december of last year. I'd say over the last twelve months I've run through the game about seven or eight times. I know the mechanics, I know the lore, and I've done a fair amount of PVP as well. I'm okay with where FromSoft wants to take the next iteration. I'll play it because I enjoy the game a great deal. I like the atmosphere and the lore. I like the combat and the exploration. To me, that's what makes the Souls games special. It has fuck all to do with getting a hard on over "ZOMG DIFFICULTY." or "ZOMG I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW ANYTHING WORKS THIS IS SO GOOOOOOOD."

And you yourself said that the game is still difficult even when you know the mechanics, which is what I said. All in all, if people can have a great tutorial in the opening (like Undead Asylum but meaningful) that also delves into the complicated systems like upgrading your equipment, all that is going to do is grow the fan base and expose more people to why Dark Souls is so interesting. As it stands right now, we've got people who hear how obtuse it is and just don't want to bother because they don't feel that they have 40-50 hours to sink into a title fumbling in the dark and not understanding how to do anything. Maybe you find that fun. Maybe you've got that kind of time to waste. Not everyone who is interested in these games do, however, and I don't see the issue with getting them in on the conversation without sacrificing what makes Dark Souls special in the first place.

As an aside, the fascinating mysteries in Dark Souls are all fundamentally lore related and have no bearing on gameplay mechanics. If people genuinely get off on not knowing how to do things then I don't know what to say to that. Learn a foreign language, maybe.

#38 Posted by Kadayi (185 posts) -

@MildMolasses said:

This is part of the reason why I don't understood people's objection to it being more accessible. Didn't most people just turn to the internet to help them through the game?

Yeah I'm not against it in truth. I love Dark Souls (200+ hours clocked) but it could definitely of done with a bit more guidance in the early stages as to what is going on. I've been extolling it's virtues to lots of my friends but very few of them have shown interest because by on large the broader impression they have is its intimidatingly hard and no one wants to throw money at a game that might prove to be beyond them.

#39 Edited by Deusx (1910 posts) -

@pyrodactyl: @Morbid_Coffee: Pretty much exactly my thoughts. I'm scared and excited at the same time!

@Oldirtybearon: I misunderstood, sorry. I do enjoy Dark Souls for exactly the same reasons you do but I disagree with what you said about the mystery of Dark Souls not playing into the mechanics of the game. It does and in almost every way, raging from the way you find miracles scattered through Lordran, they way to defeat some bosses, the covenants, the way to traverse the locations, and how to even use the items. Those are all game mechanics and the way some of them are obscured to the player only makes for a more satisfying game. Accept it, Dark Souls wouldn't be the same game without it's difficulty. Without that you wouldn't be so interested about the lore and the mechanics, without that you wouldn't have played the game so many times. The difficulty in Dark Souls strengthens the message the developers want to convey and without that, Dark Souls would be just an ok RPG experience. I completely agree with making the concepts clearer for the player, explaining things isn't always a bad thing, the thing that worries a lot of people (and me included) is how far they are going to explain things and if it will affect how you experience the lore and setting of the game.

#40 Posted by MonetaryDread (2135 posts) -

@SirOptimusPrime said:

One thing Shibuya wants to enhance is the action in the game. He feels that he can contribute because of his experience working on action games in the past.

This is the only thing that truly worries me. I know I would hate this game if it became more like Dragon's Dogma or Bayonetta, or just less finely-tuned like Monster Hunter since that's Shibuya's past. Everything else sounds either too vague to really worry about yet or is a good idea and we have to wait for the implementation to know whether or not those are good changes.

You picked out the same comment that had me worried. Dark Souls combat felt deliberate and finely tuned, but then I thought back to the fact that I had grabbed a Zweihander in the opening moments of the game. I used that sword until the very end, literally, it was the first weapon I picked up and thanks to Lightning upgrades I was doing something like 700 damage per strike and no other weapon could do that kind of damage. So looking back at things the combat in that game for me was run up and hit R2. This would smash an enemy into a pancake that would immediately kill the enemy. This was all I did the entire game. It was even effective against bosses.

#41 Posted by SirOptimusPrime (2030 posts) -

@MonetaryDread: I was looking at it from a PvP perspective... but that's one way to look at it I guess, heh. If you run up and hit R2 against someone who has any clue what they are doing, things will end very poorly for you.

#42 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4867 posts) -

@Deusx: If I had to guess, they're going to explain things like how to upgrade your equipment, not necessarily highlight where the illusory walls are.

And that's just one example of an obtuse system that has no net benefit to the player. I spent the first 30 hours of Dark Souls wondering how the hell I could upgrade my gear, or find better gear. I also didn't know that your Soul Level meant little and that it was all about upgrading your armour and weapons. That's 30 hours of game time spent not knowing fundamental systems. It's no coincidence that I was close to abandoning the game several times before I learned how to do all that.

That's what they're talking about, I think. The stuff that is critical to progression (like upgrading) needs to be surfaced and explained to the player. Other stuff like which direction to go in or piecing together the lore should and probably will stay as obtuse as it is.

#43 Posted by granderojo (1792 posts) -

They could clean up the UI, inventory system and menus. All those things are things that could make it more accessible. Witcher 2 had all those things,and that game appealed to the same crowed. Something they could fix that I'm sure some of you will fucking hate me for saying is having tighter collision detection, that doesn't detract from the animation priority and would go a long way to making it more accessible. I'm sure it would also make the game easier for many, and would be unwelcomed.

#44 Posted by golguin (4009 posts) -

I'm not sure what to think, but I know what I want in Dark Souls II.

1. Keep the ability to customize your character through different weapons, armors, items, equipment, spells, etc.

2. Keep the combat and movements deliberate. I don't want Bayonetta dodge cancel out of every action style.

3. Difficult enemies and bosses.

4. An open world in the sense that you can explore areas out of sequence and that the difficulty of the area determines where you should go and not physical barriers. No linear path.

I don't think that's much to ask for.

#45 Posted by Deathcrush (52 posts) -

Thank you so much for posting this !!!!!!!! for speculation and "fear" i will hold everything off until i see some gameplay and mechaniks gameplay now that they have said that it will contain hidden stuff i am apeaced to a small extent i just hope they keep the story and items true to the dark souls universe since its already a sequel but we all just have to wait and see (sorry for bad english )

#46 Posted by freakin9 (1171 posts) -

@Deusx said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

I really think people are conflating a tighter, smoother user experience with a retardation in difficulty. They're not mutually exclusive, you guys.

Ninja Gaiden Black was a silky smooth user experience that explained its mechanics to the player and wasn't obtuse about critical information. That game is still hard as fuck.

Have you even played Dark Souls? The game is difficult (patience, determination, and knowledge required, not manual dexterity) even if you know the mechanics to death, if that difficulty is removed, the game dies. People have a right to be afraid of the game being too direct, the fact that all the mechanics in Dark Souls are so obscure only adds to why the game is so appealing in the first place. That said, I do think it's stupid for people to jump to conclusions.

@freakin9 said:

I hate that I didn't like Dark Souls. Given that Demon's Souls might've been my favorite game of this generation.

As it stands, my interest for this is only in hearing about it, but I doubt I'll be playing it.

Go play it man! If you get stuck or can't get through a section, there's a lot of information and thousands of fans ready to help you through it. Don't think you're alone in feeling the game is difficult. You will feel very rewarded if you take the risk.

I played Dark Souls and finished it already. I was talking about Dark Souls 2.

#47 Posted by Deusx (1910 posts) -

@freakin9: You should review your OP, it's very easy to misunderstand what you said man.

@Deathcrush: Sure! I think that's the best way to approach this, will try to update you guys every time I hear more info.

@Oldirtybearon: I think what you experienced happened also to everyone who started playing the game when it came out. I know it happened to me and I still loved it haha. Either way, I see your point and hope that stuff gets a make over. As long as they keep some big secrets (lore, locations, weapons, etc.) only for real crazy souls fans, I'm ok.

@thabigred: Witcher 2 didn't appeal to the same crowd, at all. But I see your point, the UI and menus do need a major make over.

@golguin: and secrets! don't forget about the delicious secret fan service.

#48 Posted by MiniPato (2747 posts) -

Guys. GUYS! You're missing the point. Monster number 6 on the last page is a necromorph.

#49 Posted by TobbRobb (4817 posts) -

OHGOD I CANT WAIT. GIVE IT TO ME BABY!

#50 Posted by NegativeCero (3026 posts) -

Sounds good, I will be there when it's released this time around. I feel like I missed out on part of the mystery of Dark Souls when it first came out and there were all those crazy rumors of what you could do in it.

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