Dual Wielding

#1 Edited by paulithon (103 posts) -

I love dual wielding in this game. I am going with Heide sword + 3 and Fire sword + 3 at the moment just destroyed the Pursuer ,

Is anyone else Dual wielding? When I go in to a new area I will bring a shield out and once I have learnt the movements I will just dusl wield and wail on fools.

Whats the build your all going for?

#2 Posted by Carlos1408 (1528 posts) -

My copy arrives today, should be here soon as amazon says it's out for delivery. Anyways, so dual wielding looks very interesting but I really want to play a heavy cleric (strengt/faith build). However I might dual wield two massive weapons at times for fun if I can. Either way, I was thinking of waiting for my second play through to try dual wielding with a dex./int. build.

#3 Posted by Vermisean (154 posts) -

I've been rocking the dual wield as well, and also bringing the shield out for learning movements at first.

I'm loving it! Fire sword is a must!

#4 Posted by paulithon (103 posts) -

OMG haha I wasnt even dual wielding until today. i didnt realise you had to hold down the y button with both swords out to enter dual wield mode hahaha

me = LOSER SHIT BRAIN

now i am really starting to rip stuff up! see you all in a while...muhahahahhahahah

#5 Posted by Neonie (438 posts) -

Does dual-wielding let you block with both swords kirito style?

#6 Posted by Lukeweizer (2714 posts) -

Dual-Wielding seems like the most unsafe thing you could do in this game. Is rolling basically your only defence? Can anyone dual wield, or only the Swordsman class?

#7 Edited by Neonie (438 posts) -

@lukeweizer: Classes aren't locked down in such a way that class matters past a certain point. I think You can dual-wield any two weapons as long as you have 150% of the stats required to use the weapons. (Or Wep Skill Req. x1.5)

#8 Posted by paulithon (103 posts) -

Dual Wielding is Immensly powerful. I have been having no problems since I got my stats high enough to duel wield the fire sword and Heide Sword. you just need to be competent in rolling past one attack and then you are able to break poise so fast with left right left double attacks.

highly effective in PVP and against Knights etc. try it :D

#9 Posted by Dethfish (3686 posts) -

I love dual wielding in this game. I am going with Heide sword + 3 and Fire sword + 3 at the moment just destroyed the Pursuer ,

Is anyone else Dual wielding? When I go in to a new area I will bring a shield out and once I have learnt the movements I will just dusl wield and wail on fools.

Whats the build your all going for?

This is basically my exact setup too. I pull out a shield sometimes when I'm exploring a new area though. I'm dying to get my hands on a couple of katanas and dual wield those, but so far I haven't found any.

One of the toughest parts for me when dual wielding is using a flask in battle. It's already pretty tough to do that in DS2, but I think it's even harder when dual wielding because the enemies get in your face so quickly and they basically get a free shot. I've had a much easier time when I switch to my sheild first, then drink and quickly hold block to take the one hit that's coming.

#10 Posted by enemymouse (335 posts) -

Dual caesti boxer. Works really well most of the time.

#11 Posted by BLKZOMBIE (126 posts) -

Never a shield for me...balls out.

#12 Edited by EthanielRain (885 posts) -

OMG haha I wasnt even dual wielding until today. i didnt realise you had to hold down the y button with both swords out to enter dual wield mode hahaha

me = LOSER SHIT BRAIN

now i am really starting to rip stuff up! see you all in a while...muhahahahhahahah

I don't think the game itself ever mentions this, so you aren't a "loser shit brain" <3

#13 Edited by MikeLemmer (574 posts) -

@ethanielrain: Yeah, I needed that explained to me, too. Way I see it, here's the weapon styles from most defensive to most offensive:

  1. Shield + 1H Weapon
  2. 2H Weapon
  3. Dual-Wielding

I go completely risky: my alt weapon is a Bow, not a Shield. Wielding dual Falchions ATM; I want to see if a Bleed or Poison build's viable.

#14 Posted by paulithon (103 posts) -

@ethanielrain: HAHA thank you Yea i dont know why it isnt even the tutorial. Im a bit fursther in now and starting to come to problems on bosses now dual wielding. you have to be so offensive and risky and knocking off 5 hits in a few seconds is great as long as you can destroy the enemys poise

dual utchikatanas in new game plus will be pretty overpowered i HOPE! HA

anyone been invading dual wielding? Its pretty effective at catching people of guard

#15 Posted by LiquidElite (88 posts) -

honestly havent even equipped a shield yet and have taken down 6 bosses so far. my character build focuses on high attack high hp and speed.
Dual wielders are going to get hit so i found it good to upgrade/ mix and match armour, so long as the roll is still fast :D
i feel like i'm achieving more since i'm not relying on a shield :P plus the combat is much more intense when you roll like a badass

#16 Posted by HistoryInRust (6347 posts) -

So . . . are people saying this is worth it?

I rolled a Swordsman for the extra DEX at start, but I haven't spent any time outside of the tutorial with the dual-wielding mechanics.

#17 Posted by Humanity (9633 posts) -

@historyinrust: I don't even know how people play these games without using a shield. There are some bosses that attack in such a way that it seems you just can't roll out of the way.

#18 Posted by thomasnash (579 posts) -

So . . . are people saying this is worth it?

I rolled a Swordsman for the extra DEX at start, but I haven't spent any time outside of the tutorial with the dual-wielding mechanics.

I'm having a lot of fun with it. It's interesting.

What you do with the default swordsman set isn't "proper" dual wielding, you don't have the stats for it. When you do have the stats for it (1.5 the base stats for each weapon) you can go into power stance. Essentially what this does is make your left bumper/trigger attack with both weapons, so if you have two swords that do 100 damage, then your "left" attacks can potentially do 200 damage.

But the mechanics of the swings are really interesting, and rewarding if you pay attention, because the way your moves combo together is affected by what weapons are in what hand. For example, at the moment I'm using the Flame Sword (right hand) and the Heide Knight Sword (Left hand). The Flame Sword attacks quickly, swinging right to left. By contrast, the two-weapon swing has a bit of wind up, but if you do it straight after attacking with the flam sword, that wind up is eliminated. So even though I do more damage with that attack, it pays to always begin with a right handed attack because it is more damage in a similar (possibly shorter) amount of time.

This changes if I swap the hands for each weapon. The heide sword attacks upwards, vertically, so the wind-up on the dual attack is made even longer (I haven't tested the possibility that Right-Right-Dual might be a good combo though), however going from the dual attack to the right hand attach works ok. ultimately this isn't any good though; with the weapons in the first setup, you can combo Right-Left-Right-Left ad infinitum, even finishing off with a heavy two-weapon swing (I can do something like 900 damage at the moment with that combo).

This is the only setup for it I've really tried so far but it does give you some idea of the things you need to think about when kitting out a dual weapon build. Of course part of the appeal of a game like Dark Souls is getting to grips with fairly abstract systems, and so that is part of the appeal. What I really like about it is that the way I think about my combat potential is a bit more fine tuned. Using one big sword or a sword and shield I tend to think in terms of "what is the largest amount of damage I can do in one hit" because that's all that really matters.

With dual weapons I'm really thinking more in terms of DPS and Staggering. I'm trying to learn the potential combos available to me, and finding which ones work in what situations, and which ones get the most attacks off in the shortest time, that get the most damage from my stamina bar etc. Then in the actual combat, there is a lot of thinking "can I stagger this enemy with my next hit, because if I can I can turn 100 damage into 600" and it just adds a lot of layers to how I think about combat, beyond the pattern recognition and reflex dodging.

Online
#19 Posted by benspyda (2041 posts) -

I'm excited to play with a dual wield build for my second character once I finish the game with my str build. Is adaptability of any specific use for duel wielding?

#20 Posted by thomasnash (579 posts) -

@benspyda: Since you'll be rolling a lot, the additional invincibility frames would be invaluable (Assuming that is in fact somethign that happens) as well as general speed of healing and such.

Online
#21 Posted by HistoryInRust (6347 posts) -

@thomasnash: Really great post, by the way!

With dual weapons I'm really thinking more in terms of DPS and Staggering. I'm trying to learn the potential combos available to me, and finding which ones work in what situations, and which ones get the most attacks off in the shortest time, that get the most damage from my stamina bar etc. Then in the actual combat, there is a lot of thinking "can I stagger this enemy with my next hit, because if I can I can turn 100 damage into 600" and it just adds a lot of layers to how I think about combat, beyond the pattern recognition and reflex dodging.

This is where Dark Souls begins to have so many really cool parallels to fighting games, where blockstun and correct "reads" constitute every fiber of the flowing transition from offense to defense. Actually pretty excited to explore this mechanic.

#22 Posted by CaLe (4023 posts) -

My plan for when the PC version comes out is to finish the game without ever using a shield, only dual-wielding. I respecced my sorcerer on NG+ just to try out the dual-wielding and it was immediately more fun. I instantly regretted my spur of the moment decision to go magic for my first playthrough.

#23 Posted by Krullban (1050 posts) -

@humanity said:

@historyinrust: I don't even know how people play these games without using a shield. There are some bosses that attack in such a way that it seems you just can't roll out of the way.

You can always roll out of the way. I've never used a shield in any souls game. I always play in light armor and a heavy sword, and I wreck shit and rarely get hit.

#24 Posted by gerrid (358 posts) -

its so much fun once you have a good handle on dodging, enough poise to take a hit and enough health for when you get things wrong. the damage output and the animations are so satisfying

#25 Edited by Humanity (9633 posts) -

@krullban said:

@humanity said:

@historyinrust: I don't even know how people play these games without using a shield. There are some bosses that attack in such a way that it seems you just can't roll out of the way.

You can always roll out of the way. I've never used a shield in any souls game. I always play in light armor and a heavy sword, and I wreck shit and rarely get hit.

You must be pretty good!

#26 Posted by thomasnash (579 posts) -

@cale: I think not ever using a shield would be tricky in some points. I keep an upgraded Drangleic Sword and a decent shield in reserve for some bosses. The Belfry Gargoyles is one where I think a shield is nice to have, not necessarily because I can't dodge their attacks, but because it's a tight area and I've never managed to kill any individual gargoyle quickly enough to prevent like, 5 of them being on screen. This means that it's easier to try and stay right up in their face while they use physical attacks, get a hit in and roll away, rather than rolling away and and moving back in for the hit - it would work against one, but maybe not against two or three.

That said I'm not having a lot of luck with them so maybe I need to switch up.

Online
#27 Posted by Gatehouse (670 posts) -

I have barely explored duel-wielding (I'm too scared to put down my Drangleic shield and Bastard sword) but seeing as I roll out of most attacks, it might be worth giving a try if people think it's fun. Are there actual combos you can pull off?

#28 Posted by CaLe (4023 posts) -

@cale: I think not ever using a shield would be tricky in some points. I keep an upgraded Drangleic Sword and a decent shield in reserve for some bosses. The Belfry Gargoyles is one where I think a shield is nice to have, not necessarily because I can't dodge their attacks, but because it's a tight area and I've never managed to kill any individual gargoyle quickly enough to prevent like, 5 of them being on screen. This means that it's easier to try and stay right up in their face while they use physical attacks, get a hit in and roll away, rather than rolling away and and moving back in for the hit - it would work against one, but maybe not against two or three.

That said I'm not having a lot of luck with them so maybe I need to switch up.

I managed to beat the gargoyles on my first try largely thanks to the lingering flame spell. I wasn't expecting all of them to come to life, but when they did I just kept running with my back to them and using that spell. It left like 3 alive with very low health by the time I ran out, making them easy to finish off with my other spells. I dunno if just running away and getting quick hits on those who get close will work with melee, but that's what I'd try first. I'm more concerned about the bosses that can one shot you if you don't have a shield than the multiple-enemy boss fights.

#29 Edited by thomasnash (579 posts) -

@gatehouse: I go in to more detail in my first post in here, but the answer to whether there are "actual combos" is yes and no, I guess? What the power stance does is make it so that your left hand attacks use both weapons, basically doubling the damage output of those swings. The two-weapon swings look pretty cool and if you pay attention to where your attack animations start and end you can chain a lot of attacks together fairly quickly by alternating left and right attacks.

Although the way it plays might be different if you use like maces or clubs or whatever. It changes quite a lot just by swapping the two weapons I use into the other hands!

Basically it makes for a high damage, high risk build, but it is fun and satisfying to get to really know what you can pull off and in what amount of time - I feel like playing sword-and-shield style I more often revert to just making 1 attack and running away. And tbh I don't find a shield that useful. Like it's nice to soak up some damage when there's no other option, but actually getting attacks in kind of requires that you dodge most of the time (imo)

Online
#30 Posted by benspyda (2041 posts) -

Finished the game with my str build and started a new dex dual wield build, currently rocking two falchions. Chaining together moves fluidly can deal some serious damage. Turns the game into a far more fast paced action game, rolling around slicing up dudes.

The risk reward is much greater making it quite a lot more rewarding in boss fights. Soloing the Pursuer was very satisfying. You can tell the games been balanced a lot around being able to handle every situation without a shield.

I'm looking forward to finding some katana's to see what dual wielding them may be like.

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