I hope they include more story...

#1 Posted by Mikemcn (6875 posts) -

I'm almost 40 hours into my first Dark Souls Playthrough and it has been a ton of fun so far. But i find something about that game to be incredibly annoying. There's something to be said for a game that can give you it's story indirectly without beating you over the head with it, but Dark Souls' story is so indirect as to be nonexistent. If you don't take the time to cobble together info from item descriptions, and the rare line of NPC dialogue you have no clue what is going on. (Unless you google it.)

I barely understood the first portion of the game where I had to ring two bells so I wouldn't go insane/hollowed. Something about a darksign? Now i'm in Anor Londo and i'm supposed to have a showdown with some godly dude that was in the intro.Why? BECAUSE DARK SOULS SAID SO! Also you're the chosen one.

This is all really pretty, and neat and stuff, but why am I here?

Dark Souls has some of the most beautiful and intricate environments and characters i've ever seen in a game, but I get the feeling that the artists went hogwild over the design and the writers forgot to include any reason for those beautiful and intricate things being there. I don't need Bioshock audiologs or Skyrim journal entries where every character records what they ate for breakfast and how they felt about it in absurd detail, but I would like a codex or something so that when I murder a boss or get brought to a new area I can know why.

#2 Posted by Breadfan (6586 posts) -

The lore in Dark Souls is actually pretty extensive, it's just in the background. Something that I love about the game.

#3 Posted by shivermetimbers (717 posts) -

Call me crazy, but I actually like the fact that Dark Souls had very little exposition. We're technically a stranger to this world after all. The environments and exploration weave the story and journey rather than narrative. It's a strength that video games can be more than just being strung about to point A to B.

#4 Posted by FourWude (2261 posts) -

The story is all there. It just doesn't need to be communicated in a direct, linear manner. Language is superfluous to the realm of souls. You communicate and learn through suffering.

I'll let a country and western say it for me, "You say it best, when you say nothing at all."

#5 Edited by Zeik (2117 posts) -

I wouldn't mind not having to dig quite so hard for what is there, but I don't need a whole codex.

#6 Edited by wemibelec90 (1292 posts) -

I feel that too much more information would ruin part of the feel of Dark Souls. It really helps sell the player on being completely lost in the game. A bit more information could be okay, but much more than that might hurt the game's style.

#7 Edited by SpaceRunaway (809 posts) -

nothankyou.gif

But really, I love that it's there, but that it's so hidden. It's a fully fleshed out world and everyone in it knows what's going on except you. And I loved that.

#8 Edited by CornBREDX (4459 posts) -

I disagree. I love that the past of this world is hidden and you have to actually dig to find it.

I hope that doesn't change. The atmosphere, the mystery, and the tension are what make Dark Souls unique and it needs to stay that way.

#9 Posted by EXTomar (4129 posts) -

Out of the issues with Dark Souls, the story is very low on the list. If nothing else keeping it mysterious helps.

#10 Edited by MonetaryDread (1956 posts) -

This guy knows whats up.

@shivermetimbers said:

Call me crazy, but I actually like the fact that Dark Souls had very little exposition. We're technically a stranger to this world after all. The environments and exploration weave the story and journey rather than narrative. It's a strength that video games can be more than just being strung about to point A to B.

I think that forcing story on a gamer is never a good idea.

#11 Edited by Turambar (6489 posts) -

The fact that it's something you cobble together yourself makes it better as far as I'm concerned.

#12 Edited by probablytuna (3446 posts) -

I actually like the fact that there's so little story in Dark Souls.

#13 Posted by golguin (3673 posts) -

Couldn't disagree more. Your exploration and diligence is rewarded with little snippets of info that combines with other pieces here and there to form the history and lore of the world.

As for what you said here, "I barely understood the first portion of the game where I had to ring two bells so I wouldn't go insane/hollowed. Something about a darksign? Now i'm in Anor Londo and i'm supposed to have a showdown with some godly dude that was in the intro.Why? BECAUSE DARK SOULS SAID SO! Also you're the chosen one."

You should have learned in the beginning that YOU ARE NOT THE CHOSEN ONE. The first guy you talk to tells you that you are not special and that there is a constant stream of dudes trying to ring the bells.

#14 Edited by Krullban (989 posts) -

No. I disagree. Dark Souls actually has one of the most realized worlds and story I've seen in a game in a very long time. You just aren't punched in the face with it. And that's the point. You're a stranger to the land and don't know shit.

#15 Edited by Mikemcn (6875 posts) -

@spacerunaway said:

nothankyou.gif

But really, I love that it's there, but that it's so hidden. It's a fully fleshed out world and everyone in it knows what's going on except you. And I loved that.

@shivermetimbers said:

Call me crazy, but I actually like the fact that Dark Souls had very little exposition. We're technically a stranger to this world after all. The environments and exploration weave the story and journey rather than narrative. It's a strength that video games can be more than just being strung about to point A to B.

I agree, the way the story is presented gives a sense of mystery that's nice. But I almost never find myself getting any story bits at all. I'm starving for story and I can't for the life of me figure out how to discover it. It's not just subtley told, it's often not told at all. Maybe i'm missing something but I really don't find myself making any progress in understanding the story.

#16 Edited by FancySoapsMan (5750 posts) -

I think they have could have done a better job of fleshing out the background behind some aspects of Dark Soul's world.

But it doesn't need a story in the traditional sense to do that.

#17 Posted by CommodoreGroovy (548 posts) -

I think I agree with this. It's cool and all that you infer things about the story from the background, but that in itself didn't make me care about the story. While playing through Dark Souls, I never once thought, "man I can't wait to see the next part of the story." No... the appeal for me to continue playing Dark Souls came solely from the great gameplay. So yeah, I wouldn't mind if they added more of a plot--more of a rhyme and a reason--to the next installment.

However, I can understand the argument against implementing more of a story. The Souls series has a very specific design and atmosphere that might be contradicted by exposition. What I was thinking was a very subtle touch of a plot as an intermission to the gameplay arcs: like a sotn-type castlevania structure.

#18 Edited by golguin (3673 posts) -

@mikemcn said:

@spacerunaway said:

nothankyou.gif

But really, I love that it's there, but that it's so hidden. It's a fully fleshed out world and everyone in it knows what's going on except you. And I loved that.

@shivermetimbers said:

Call me crazy, but I actually like the fact that Dark Souls had very little exposition. We're technically a stranger to this world after all. The environments and exploration weave the story and journey rather than narrative. It's a strength that video games can be more than just being strung about to point A to B.

I agree, the way the story is presented gives a sense of mystery that's nice. But I almost never find myself getting any story bits at all. I'm starving for story and I can't for the life of me figure out how to discover it. It's not just subtley told, it's often not told at all. Maybe i'm missing something but I really don't find myself making any progress in understanding the story.

Have you been finding and talking to all the NPCs in the world? Have you come back to check in on them after a new boss or areas is opened up to see what new things they have to say? Have you been reading the descriptions for the various items, spells, equipment, etc.?

#19 Edited by colorbrandon (146 posts) -

If you look at all of the cut dialogue, especially from Oscar, you realize how much more streamlined Dark Soul's story would have been. It's a shame, but I think stronger story hooks means less replayability.

Online
#20 Posted by ExplodeMode (852 posts) -

I know there is a space between minimal exposition and hour long cutscenes, but I really appreciate a game that lets you take its story at your own pace.

I was thinking about nostalgia bait games and stylized indie games and how they often don't really feel totally like the games they are trying to evoke. I realized that when I play Dark Souls I often think about the first Zelda game. Moreso than any Zelda clone anyway. I think the minimal story is a big part of that. Letting your mind do a little more work than you're used to. Letting the world retain as much mystery as possible. I think I took this type of story for granted and I wouldn't want to lose it. I mean, we already have plenty of the alternative.

#21 Posted by Animasta (14464 posts) -
#22 Edited by Fredchuckdave (4493 posts) -

@mikemcn: Dark Souls does have a semblance of a storyline/plot, Demon's Souls is much more lacking in that regard; don't think the game works or is nearly as immersive if they do much more as to direct interactivity with the player. Maybe a handful more Siegmeyers or Solaires could do the game some good however.

#23 Posted by benspyda (1900 posts) -

I love a good vague story. I played dear Esther a couple days ago and that kinda is the same. It adds a lot of atmosphere and leads you to kind of interpret the world how you want to. I thoroughly enjoyed Dark Souls and Demon Souls worlds a lot more than I have the many many poor video game narratives of shoot that guy, he's a terrorist.

#24 Edited by John1912 (1745 posts) -

No story is part of what makes Dark Souls great. The story is the games atmosphere, its weird, creepy, ambiguous, and surreal. I dont think you understand what the game is or is trying to be if you think it needs a story. Adding a story would really ruin what the game imo.

#25 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (4448 posts) -

Dark souls by it's very nature is oppressive, vague, desolate and methodical. If the narrative became more overt and outright, I really feel it would lose some of it's charm. I like the obscure way they tell the story. It's there for those who want it, but you could ignore it just the same. I loved getting any nuggets of exposition into the world and narrative.

#26 Edited by crcruz3 (240 posts) -

Sorry to disagree. I love Dark Souls the way it is. I find that the way the game delivers the information is one of its greatest features.

#27 Edited by SomeJerk (2978 posts) -

There's a shitload of story in Dark Souls and the amazing DLC.

It's just that a lot of it isn't in text and speech.

You need a great ability to do the math, connect the dots, figure things to get the story out of it as well as play the game.

#28 Edited by Karkarov (2636 posts) -

Please don't link common sense bro. The Souls games are designed for you to play them yourself and draw your own conclusion, there is plenty of lore to learn and consider if you read item descriptions, think about the implications of some npc dialog or events, or just pay attention to the levels themselves. You don't need a "great ability" to figure it all out, you just need to stop and think about what you have seen, done, read, and heard then ask yourself how it logically connects.

#29 Posted by SunBroZak (853 posts) -

I think EpicNameBro made a good point when he used the Ceaseless Discharge example. The story surrounding Ceaseless Discharge was much more powerful because it wasn't told to you directly. After defeating this giant monster and looking through the item descriptions, you learn that this monster was really a brother who (after the events that occurred in Izalith) had mutated into a demonic creature and the only thing left in the world he can cling to is the corpse of his dead sister.

If that was explained in a cutscene, it wouldn't have been nearly as effective. So yeah, I don't want to see the narrative changed in Dark Souls 2. There are plenty of games that hand feed you the plot. Dark Souls doesn't need to be one of them.

#30 Edited by vikingdeath1 (902 posts) -

I hope they just do More of what they already did. same Incredibly vague / hidden story stuff, but more of it. it's my favorite part of Darksouls by far.

#31 Posted by senrat (290 posts) -

Having only played demons souls, I really enjoyed they complete lack of context for the mission. It made the world feel mysterious and unknown, which added to the scary factor and suspense. The lack of context was part of what made the game unique.

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