PSA: Weapons breaking for no reason? I found out why!

#1 Edited by development (2371 posts) -

Control yourself! After about 15 playthroughs, I've finally paid enough attention to note my weapons deteriorating after an enemy dies. During their death animation, when they release the blue stuff and evaporate/turn into ragdolls, hitting them severely reduces your weapon's durability. Go ahead and try it. You can see the red durability bar shorten with each swing, much more than it would with a normal hit on an enemy.

So, in summation: don't swing your weapons more than you have to. I think certain enemies reduce it a lot when doing this; like the exploding mummies (because they weren't annoying enough).

edit: slight revision! It's not the ghostly stuff that reduces the durability; it's hitting corpses at all; period. Why? Because Dark Souls.

#2 Edited by Garfield518 (404 posts) -

That makes so much sense, especially against the packs of Royal Swordsmen in Lost Bastille.

I was wondering why my durability went to shit after fighting them.

#3 Edited by development (2371 posts) -

@garfield518: That's probably the first place I noticed it. I was using the Mastadon Halberd and running in there with the triple-spin attack. On top of hitting every wall in sight with my attacks I was also hitting all the enemy ghosts. My durability was at 20% by the time I got to the Sentinels.

#4 Posted by Karkarov (3133 posts) -

Uh yeah... pretty sure everyone should have already noticed you lose durability every time you swing. It also depends on the weapon as well. The Old Whip for example loses durability at an insanely fast rate if you hit armored dudes with it.

#5 Posted by Baillie (4194 posts) -

@karkarov said:

Uh yeah... pretty sure everyone should have already noticed you lose durability every time you swing. It also depends on the weapon as well. The Old Whip for example loses durability at an insanely fast rate if you hit armored dudes with it.

Uh yeah... That's not what he's saying. Read next time, thanks.

#6 Posted by Karkarov (3133 posts) -

@baillie said:

@karkarov said:

Uh yeah... pretty sure everyone should have already noticed you lose durability every time you swing. It also depends on the weapon as well. The Old Whip for example loses durability at an insanely fast rate if you hit armored dudes with it.

Uh yeah... That's not what he's saying. Read next time, thanks.

No he is saying he loses extra dura if he hits the misty stuff when a mob dies. I am saying "yeah... you hit something with your weapon that always causes dura loss and everyone knows this or should by now, and yes dura loss was also always based on what you were hitting versus the weapon you used." Not news dude if you pay attention while playing.

#7 Posted by Dragon4234 (133 posts) -
@baillie said:

@karkarov said:

Uh yeah... pretty sure everyone should have already noticed you lose durability every time you swing. It also depends on the weapon as well. The Old Whip for example loses durability at an insanely fast rate if you hit armored dudes with it.

Uh yeah... That's not what he's saying. Read next time, thanks.

Reading is for nerds anyways.

It's good to have a good trigger control then but that sucks when you get ganged up on like 70% of all Dark Souls II encounters.

#8 Posted by dudeglove (7902 posts) -

@karkarov said:

Uh yeah... pretty sure everyone should have already noticed you lose durability every time you swing. It also depends on the weapon as well. The Old Whip for example loses durability at an insanely fast rate if you hit armored dudes with it.

I was using it on the hollows along the cliff edge on the way to the skeleton lords (Huntsmans Copse, I think the place is called?), who aren't all that armored (they look dressed in rags more than anything else). Now while the old whip one-shots them at great range, it literally lasted only about three or four good 1-handed swings before "Danger!" and then one more before breaking altogether, which is kind of annoying. I'm pretty sure whips in real life, even old whips, which are meant to travel at sub-sonic speeds through the air are meant to last slightly longer than that

I'm not angry at the game, but at the same time it doesn't seem to give too many visual or audible cues (other than big metal armor clanky dudes in Heide's for example) as to what defines an enemy that's weak or weaker to strike as opposed to... umm... not strike, and by that I also mean being able to size an enemy up beforehand from a distance before engaging them. Then again I'm the kind of guy who hangs right outside aggro range and uses poison arrows with abandon as opposed to being proficient in engaging enemies.

#9 Edited by mosespippy (4205 posts) -

@dudeglove: I'm pretty sure you mean super sonic speeds. Also, when Tested tried their slow mo cam on a whip in motion they actually did break the whip after just a few tries.

#10 Edited by MannyMAR (470 posts) -

Yeah I noticed this early on. It also helps to know that it works the same way on NPC's like Sweet Shalquoir (who can't die) so when you get a certain weapon that has 500 durability and want to break it, you'll know exactly who to find.

#11 Edited by Vitor (2822 posts) -

@karkarov said:

@baillie said:

@karkarov said:

Uh yeah... pretty sure everyone should have already noticed you lose durability every time you swing. It also depends on the weapon as well. The Old Whip for example loses durability at an insanely fast rate if you hit armored dudes with it.

Uh yeah... That's not what he's saying. Read next time, thanks.

No he is saying he loses extra dura if he hits the misty stuff when a mob dies. I am saying "yeah... you hit something with your weapon that always causes dura loss and everyone knows this or should by now, and yes dura loss was also always based on what you were hitting versus the weapon you used." Not news dude if you pay attention while playing.

Please read the first post again.

He's saying that hitting dead enemies takes off MORE durability than normal hits. Check online, that's been proven and don't dismiss people so quickly on the forums. You were wrong in assuming that OP was just regurgitating info that everyone knew. Not everyone is aware of the penalty for hitting corpses.

The wall hitting penalty is obvious, that one not so much.

#12 Edited by dudeglove (7902 posts) -

@dudeglove: I'm pretty sure you mean super sonic speeds. Also, when Tested tried their slow mo cam on a whip in motion they actually did break the whip after just a few tries.

I stand (or sit, rather) corrected.

#13 Posted by ripelivejam (4063 posts) -

@development: 15 playthroughs???!!?? my god where do you find the time. is this basically the only game you have right now???

im being facetious, but wow. maybe im just finding it hard to focus or something nowadays...

#14 Edited by Baillie (4194 posts) -

@ripelivejam: It doesn't take long to get through the game. A couple of hours.

#15 Edited by Karkarov (3133 posts) -

@vitor said:

Please read the first post again.

His point is still moot. It doesn't matter that it causes more dura loss. Why are you hitting a dead enemy anyway? When I know 3 hits kills a guy I don't swing 4 times. Hitting ANYTHING causes dura loss so you really should never hit something unless you absolutely have to do so. How much dura you lose from it is meaningless if you use your weapons intelligently to begin with.

So please read my post and understand I am not refuting his point. I am merely stating that it is meaningless because for it to even happen means you have to be swinging at things you don't need to be swinging at which you should already be trying to avoid doing.

#16 Edited by Icemael (6326 posts) -

Maybe I'm using big swings to hit multiple enemies at once and one of them dies before the others?

Most of what's in the game is meaningless if you play perfectly to begin with.

"Why would you care about Estus flask shards, your HP stat, the differences in defense between the various armours, enemy damage output, or learning which boss attacks are unblockable? It's all meaningless, because you should never get hit if you play intelligently to begin with. Git gud son."

#17 Edited by Veektarius (4869 posts) -

@icemael: That was a really good reply.

#18 Posted by Dan_CiTi (3340 posts) -

There's also those special attack weapons that work for about 5 times before they are ready to break, which sucks but I guess it is the only way for those weapons on DS.

#19 Posted by mosespippy (4205 posts) -

Pro Tip: in The Gutter swing your torch at the poison statues because all that rotting wood in the area will degrade your weapons faster than normal walls. Also, don't hit dead enemies.

@icemael said:

Maybe I'm using big swings to hit multiple enemies at once and one of them dies before the others?

You wouldn't choose to not do that because of risk of a weapon degradation penalty. No one is going through the game waiting for attacks that will hit the enemy and only the enemy and not any other walls or objects.

#20 Posted by development (2371 posts) -
@icemael said:

"Why would you care about Estus flask shards, your HP stat, the differences in defense between the various armours, enemy damage output, or learning which boss attacks are unblockable? It's all meaningless, because you should never get hit if you play intelligently to begin with. Git gud son."

Exactly. Bunch of "git gud" gibberish. Karkarov typically knows his souls games, but it's time to back down from this one. Was proven wrong and is now grasping at straws.

@development: 15 playthroughs???!!?? my god where do you find the time. is this basically the only game you have right now???

Yep. The Souls franchise is my favorite game franchise; no question. Currently doing a no-death run. Isn't that hard at all if you know the game. A good deal easier than in Demon's Souls and especially Dark Souls 1 (fuck Ornstein & Smough! Fuck the 4 Kings!).

#21 Edited by Dezztroy (804 posts) -

It should also be noted that corpses do twice and sometimes more damage to weapons on PC than on console due to it running at 60fps. PC was lead development platform, you guys.

#22 Posted by dudeglove (7902 posts) -

@mosespippy: wtf, you can use the torch as a weapon? Or is this one of those context sensitive torch moments (e.g. lighting a brazier, burning the windmill in earthen peak etc.)?

#23 Posted by Tennmuerti (8123 posts) -

@dudeglove: Yes you can hit dudes/stuff with the torch.

#24 Posted by Vitor (2822 posts) -

@karkarov said:

@vitor said:

Please read the first post again.

His point is still moot. It doesn't matter that it causes more dura loss. Why are you hitting a dead enemy anyway? When I know 3 hits kills a guy I don't swing 4 times. Hitting ANYTHING causes dura loss so you really should never hit something unless you absolutely have to do so. How much dura you lose from it is meaningless if you use your weapons intelligently to begin with.

So please read my post and understand I am not refuting his point. I am merely stating that it is meaningless because for it to even happen means you have to be swinging at things you don't need to be swinging at which you should already be trying to avoid doing.

Yeah, you're just being stubborn now.

I had my main two weapons break in the easiest boss fight (congregation) because I didn't know that corpses affected durability. The corpses were scattered around the main bosses, so I couldn't help but hit them. One swing through 5 corpses with my Smelter Sword (low durability already) was enough to massively chunk down the durability bar. Still won but had to equip a third weapon mid-battle.

Here's the thing - corpses in this game don't seem to have the physical properties that they did last game (no physics). As such, it's easy to assume that they are just there for added visual density. It's not obvious to assume that they would affect your weapons in the same way that a living enemy/wall would.

#25 Edited by Karkarov (3133 posts) -

@vitor said:

Yeah, you're just being stubborn now.

I had my main two weapons break in the easiest boss fight (congregation) because I didn't know that corpses affected durability. The corpses were scattered around the main bosses, so I couldn't help but hit them. One swing through 5 corpses with my Smelter Sword (low durability already) was enough to massively chunk down the durability bar. Still won but had to equip a third weapon mid-battle.

Here's the thing - corpses in this game don't seem to have the physical properties that they did last game (no physics). As such, it's easy to assume that they are just there for added visual density. It's not obvious to assume that they would affect your weapons in the same way that a living enemy/wall would.

I guess my logic is just weird. I just figured if hitting a guy while he is running around and alive causes dura loss.... wouldn't hitting him while he is dead do the same thing? He still has on his armor, he still is a physical object in the world, I never figured the "he was alive" part factored into why I was losing dura. I mean that box isn't alive and I lose dura when I hit it. In fact I am not totally sure you need to even actually hit anything to lose dura at this point, the swing in and of itself may be all it needs.

There is a reason I prefer the strength build... cause it has a much better selection of weapons, and lots of them have very good dura. You go dex and almost all of them are in the 40's range, especially the katana's. Fie on that!!!

I ran into durability issues very early in the game cause I played deprived so I learned how to protect my dura very early. I also carry a ton of valid weapons for my build (I even have a backup shield just in case), so if a weapon does somehow come at risk I can replace it with no issue. Any weapons I won't use I sell to Gavlaan or bank.

EDIT: Bear in mind I am not saying you should "never" hit a dead guy, or a wall, or a box. Sometimes you have to because of mob positioning, and yes trying to reposition to avoid the extra hit is dumb. That said that isn't that common and if you are conservative and only swing as much as you need to in the far more common one on one encounters dura is likely to never be an issue. Unless you are using a low dura weapon, then you should be used to it.

#26 Edited by Sammo21 (3297 posts) -

However, basic weapon degradation is super high. My longsword would almost be broken after just 10-15 minutes of normal combat.

#27 Posted by development (2371 posts) -

@karkarov: The point isn't "hey did you know you still lose durability when hitting the misty shit!?" The point is "hey did you know you lost significantly more durability when hitting the misty shit than when hitting... anything else at all?"

#28 Posted by Karkarov (3133 posts) -

@karkarov: The point isn't "hey did you know you still lose durability when hitting the misty shit!?" The point is "hey did you know you lost significantly more durability when hitting the misty shit than when hitting... anything else at all?"

Meh, just don't hit shit with your weapons. Not only do you lose dura but it makes your weapons smell funny too.

#29 Posted by Myrmicus (223 posts) -
@karkarov said:

@development said:

@karkarov: The point isn't "hey did you know you still lose durability when hitting the misty shit!?" The point is "hey did you know you lost significantly more durability when hitting the misty shit than when hitting... anything else at all?"

Meh, just don't hit shit with your weapons. Not only do you lose dura but it makes your weapons smell funny too.

Yeah Get a ring of champions and punch everything to death ! You fists won't break.

#30 Posted by Draugen (651 posts) -

@karkarov: But not everyone plays like a robot with a calculator. I am not conservative and only swing as much as I need to. I go in like a lunatic, and swing until the enemy is dead. So for me, this was usefull information. Thank you for providing this PSA, OP. I found it helpful.

#31 Posted by Fire_Of_The_Wind (170 posts) -

It's not the misty ghost thing that reduces durability it's actually the corpses. I tried this and attacking dead enemies reduce the durability by a lot, it's not just the moment it dies you can come back a couple of minutes later and if the corpse is still there it will still reduce the durability.

#32 Posted by Igniz12 (62 posts) -

@icemael said:

Maybe I'm using big swings to hit multiple enemies at once and one of them dies before the others?

Most of what's in the game is meaningless if you play perfectly to begin with.

"Why would you care about Estus flask shards, your HP stat, the differences in defense between the various armours, enemy damage output, or learning which boss attacks are unblockable? It's all meaningless, because you should never get hit if you play intelligently to begin with. Git gud son."

Amazing! This "gitgud" crowd is a old phenomenon that seems to have become more prevalent in DS2. Before it was largely confined to PVP(mostly just trash talk, nothing more really) but it has since morphed into something all encompassing. The funniest thing is they never seem to be able to argue their point except try to convince people of how amazing they are and no problem is real and its all about getting better at the game but in actual fact they have so little understanding of the issues that they cant fathom why certain design choices might be problematic or just plain bad.

When Dark Souls 3: The Revenge of Gywn release and the first boss we fight is Artorias of the Donte we all know who to fucking blame.

#33 Edited by Calmgamer (142 posts) -

@igniz12 said:

@icemael said:

Maybe I'm using big swings to hit multiple enemies at once and one of them dies before the others?

Most of what's in the game is meaningless if you play perfectly to begin with.

"Why would you care about Estus flask shards, your HP stat, the differences in defense between the various armours, enemy damage output, or learning which boss attacks are unblockable? It's all meaningless, because you should never get hit if you play intelligently to begin with. Git gud son."

Amazing! This "gitgud" crowd is a old phenomenon that seems to have become more prevalent in DS2. Before it was largely confined to PVP(mostly just trash talk, nothing more really) but it has since morphed into something all encompassing. The funniest thing is they never seem to be able to argue their point except try to convince people of how amazing they are and no problem is real and its all about getting better at the game but in actual fact they have so little understanding of the issues that they cant fathom why certain design choices might be problematic or just plain bad.

When Dark Souls 3: The Revenge of Gywn release and the first boss we fight is Artorias of the Donte we all know who to fucking blame.

Lol - I just had someone PM me on PSN after they invaded me and then beat me (spammed hexes before I saw him). The message just said Git Gud Casual. I wrote back - Its spelled "Get" and "Good", Moron. I didn't know it was a meme. Regardless it was a prick move to send a mocking PM after an invasion so I don't regret replying.

#34 Edited by insane_shadowblade85 (1461 posts) -

Cool, I never knew that and now it all makes sense. My halberd was always on the verge of breaking when I got to the sentinels as well. I'll remember this if I ever get back to Dark Souls 2.

#35 Edited by development (2371 posts) -

@fire_of_the_wind said:

It's not the misty ghost thing that reduces durability it's actually the corpses. I tried this and attacking dead enemies reduce the durability by a lot, it's not just the moment it dies you can come back a couple of minutes later and if the corpse is still there it will still reduce the durability.

You're actually correct. I was trying to reduce Santier's Spear's durability quickly and found the best way was to go to the Shaded Woods entrance, pull the lever, and pile up a bunch of those distended-bellied poison guys in one spot and whack their corpses with the 1-handed attack. I don't know why, but no matter what angle I used the 1-handed would reduce the durability by like 25 while the 2-handed would only reduce it by 7. Completely makes sense why my Halberds lost so much durability, as I pretty much solely use their 1-handed moves.

And I'd just like to pose the question: why is this in the game? It doesn't make any gameplay sense. First off, only about 1% of the players are going to notice this mechanic. Second, it doesn't teach you to "control yourself," like I said, as even if you control yourself you're still going to be hitting corpses. There must be a lore reason for it, like "it's an ungodly sin to disturb the dead!" or something. Also, it might help improve performance if they removed this obscure mechanic, because it would allow them to disable all collision on dead enemies, rather than keep it around for your weapons to hit.

#36 Posted by Myrmicus (223 posts) -

I think you loose durability by hitting a ragdoll, not hitting an actual ennemy. So, your opponent may be alive or dead, you will loose the same durability (I verified). It makes perfect sense to me : Why a body should "hurt" your weapon less if he's dead ? There is something else that doesn't make sense : Hitting a wall does much less durability damage... Which shouldn't be right : you're more likely to break a weapon by hitting solid objects like rock, rather than soft objects like flesh. Gameplay wise, it's better, because it would be hellish otherwise.

There is collision with dead bodies other than the durability : I had fun tossing bodies around, kicking them off cliffs and such.

#37 Edited by development (2371 posts) -

@myrmicus: Wait, in Dark Souls 2? You can kick dead bodies? I thought only other enemies could interact with the ragdolls.

#38 Posted by Myrmicus (223 posts) -

@development: It doesn't work every time, but I encoutered some ragdolls that moved when I walked on them. Most do not though.

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