I was playing last night and while still in the Forest of the Giants I started to play more with summoning phantoms to aid me in the area. I summoned phantoms twice last night in areas where there were a large number of signs before or near a white mist gate. Both times happen to be before boss fights, which I figured was the reason for the large number.

I fought the Last Giant and The Pursuer each with one player phantom aiding me. With me on my Sorcerer/Fighter and the other player fighting the boss, both felt a bit easy. The battles were not walks in the park. I still had to make sure I was dodging attacks, watching health, and keeping at the right range, but when I was done I didn't feel the triumpth of working hard to overcome a challenge. It felt more surprise that we won fairly quickly and with no deaths. Then the phatom friend waved goodbye and I was left alone again.

I was already soul level 30 going into the fights with some upgrades to my weapons and body armors, but I'm debating whether to summon phantoms again for my first run at a boss or first play through the game. I didn't summon in Dark Souls because I was mostly hollow to avoid invasion, so it might have been the same for Dark Souls. Also, this is still early in the game.

What are some feelings you have on summoning phantoms? Do you do it to make parts in the game easier or avoid it to keep the challenge?

I wouldn't ever hassle anyone for summoning or tell them they are "playing wrong," but I definitely intentionally avoided it my entire first run through the game. Not only did the satisfaction factor feel off, but I remember in Dark Souls that summoning phantoms would net you less souls when defeating bosses, and that's not something I wanted to tolerate. To each their own, though!

does using phantoms or shades, net you less souls?

@phoenix778m: No, it does not.

I had no clue that summoning in Dark Souls decreased the number of souls rewarded from a boss. That would suck. I haven't payed attention to that in the two tests I did in Dark Souls 2 because I had no prior summoning experience. From now on, I think I might avoid summoning if possible from now on for the same satisfaction factor I had in Dark Souls. For me that is the biggest loss when done with the fight for myself.

In Dark Souls 1, the host always gets the full soul bounty for defeating a boss, whether it was done solo or with any number of phantoms summoned. The phantoms, however, only receive half of the soul bounty for defeating the boss.

Also, in Dark Souls 1, a boss receives extra health for each phantom summoned. A boss will have 100% of its normal health if the host is alone, 150% if one phantom is present, and 200% if two phantoms are present.

As for Dark Souls 2, the same mechanics appear to be in place, but I can't confirm the exact numbers.

I would suggest that you take on the boss several times by yourself and see if you make any progress in getting their moveset down. If you are just getting completely stomped every time you fight a boss, but down your summon sign and see how other people fight them in their world. Once you've helped kill a boss a few times go back to your world and try again. If you still can't do it then gain your humanity and summon 1 phantom.

I've helped out with boss kills around 25 times (first 7 bosses) and I think the host only died 3 times. You are almost guaranteed a victory if you summon phantoms. I feel that you should only summon for boss fights if you are truly stuck.

I dunno, I haven't used anyone for any of the bosses. Then again so far I haven't had any issues on any of the bosses. Only ones I would expect people would need help would be for the Belfry Gargoyles or the Sentinels, but I beat those dudes on my second time for each. I might use help if I ever get stuck though. No reason to bash your head against something when you can just get help.

So, I haven't summoned anyone to help me with a boss yet, but I did put down a summon sign to help people with The Pursuer and once for the Ruined Sentinels and I've noticed that there was always crazy lag. For The Pursuer, he and the people I was with were warping around like crazy, some times The Pursuer would go into an attack animation and then pause only to then "fast forward" himself to whoever he was targeting. For the Ruined Sentinels, I experienced the same thing.

My question is, has anyone been experiencing this? Granted, I've been playing pretty late at night, so I might be getting summoned by people who are far from my location or something (I don't know what I'm talking about). I doubt it's my own internet since I've never had this kind of issue with my other online games.

Aside from that, and the part where I haven't fully adjusted to fighting groups of enemies, I've been having fun with this game. I especially enjoy the part where I can still put down a summon sign while I'm a human. Not sure if that was in Dark Souls, but I know you had to be in soul form to get summoned in Demon's Souls.

I used phantoms for The Pursuer first time (I was thoroughly expecting to get minced anyway) and the fight turned into a cakewalk. I fought the Old Dragonslayer twice alone before using a summon and it did feel like it cheapened it a bit. I don't think I'll do it for the next few bosses at least, just for the challenge.

I played for roughly four hours or so with one character before deciding to start over. That first time, I beat the Last Giant and the Pursuer on my own. I summoned two phantoms for both of those fights with my current character and they definitely felt way too easy as a result, especially the Pursuer battle. The two phantoms distracted the Pursuer while I nailed him from each ballista, killing him in two shots. While there was a certain kind of thrill seeing the Pursuer go down so easily after spending so much time trying to kill him before, the victory mostly felt empty. I've gone solo since and although the boss battles have been tough they have also been fair (for the most part), and the victories are all the sweeter.

All that said, I'm not going to jump down anyone's throat for summoning if it helps them through a tough spot.

Speaking of phantoms: Has anyone else found the White Ring? Equipping it makes you look like a phantom even when you are not. I don't think there's any advantage to the ring other than making you look ghostly, which is kinda neat. For the record, I got it as a random gift from the crows for giving them a Petrified Something.

For me personally, summoning help would ruin my enjoyment of the game. I did it once just to see if it would work and even felt a little dirty about doing that. Not for me at all.

I've done a bunch of boss fights solo now and a bunch with summons. All the boss fights seem easy so far (16 bosses down), whether I have help or not.

I've only ever used an NPC summon once or twice, for fights like O&S in Souls 1. I honestly doubt I'll ever summon a human phantom.

I've been using tons of summons, and it's been rad. It definitely makes the boss fights easier, but I figure any advantage Dark Souls gives you is worth taking. As a whole, I've had an easier time with this game so far, but I think it's because I'm more attuned to how you're expected to play and not just smashing the attack button constantly like a doofus.

It really depends on the luck of the draw. I've had some super strong summons help me out, and I've had some rock stupid ones get themselves and me killed. Personally, I've been leaning into the multiplayer like no other souls games because it really feels like it was designed around it.

I'm more interested in the fun of co op than the challenge of boss fights honestly. That said, in Dark Souls 1 I only summoned two or three times. And each time was for bosses with multiple monsters. And honestly is was super fun.

It's a good thing summoning is optional then. If you find it too easy when you summon people, join the Company of Champions and you don't have worry about the temptation.

In the end I'm glad it there and optional as well. The funnest part was just having another player in the game with me. I enjoyed the multiplayer aspect. I kind of want to ramp up the difficulty in a co-op mode. That mode wouldn't raise the souls earned, just difficulty. I'd love to fight and die in the game with a friend.

That's no different than any souls game. If you want the purest experience without lightening the difficulty, don't summon people when you're just exploring an area, and only save it for bosses or even do them yourself. You can always just lay down your own sign and do some co op that way, so you can get both experiences.

I'm summoning a lot more in this game than I ever did in DS1. Some of these bosses can go fuck themselves. I did both the Pursuer and the Ruin Sentinels tonight. I gave both a few shots on my own before I got fed up. The Sentinels especially suck ass to fight on your own. I just didn't get how to do it, at least not with my build. And then on top of that, it took me like 5 tries with other players to do the job. At that point I was just glad it was over. Summoning does make some of it feel cheap and easy for sure, but this is a game that tries to screw the player over at every turn, so it's hard to feel too bad about it.

I always try to take on bosses alone first, and if I feel I can really do it, I'll keep trying for awhile, but it's nice knowing the help is there if I need it. Plus, I think rolling with a small posse in these games is a lot of fun, regardless of whether it makes the game easy or not.

That's why i am and will forever play dark souls games offline , i sure don't get to experience the online features but the satisfaction of beating the bosses alone and feeling all alone in the world of Dark souls makes the game 100x times better and more rewarding , but when i am just messing around i sometimes leave my summon sign before some bosses to help people beat them , but that's all .

Personally I think they should net the player less souls for summoning players. I died about 7 times on pursuer. Then I summoned so done and hey shot the bastard in the back so a ballista and murdered his ass. Against the lost sinner they kept pelting him with magic and every time he went after the other guy I'd stab him in the back. The distraction factor alone makes summoning for bosses easy mode.

I've been summoning people on most fights because while I beat all of DS1 offline solo, I don't want to get stuck at some point and be burned out. I'll save solo wins for NG. That said, I've been able to beat several bosses solo that were clearly meant for coop, such as the gargoyles and the ruins sentinels.

Well of course it makes it easier, thats the point....

I went through the game and beat all the bosses solo, I'm now messing with various new characters with different builds and such. But now im summoning constantly. Cus i already beat the bosses, i know i can do it and i have nothing to prove to anyone so why not?

Although I beat Demons Souls completely by myself, I'm into the Souls games more for the exploration than fighting the same boss 10+ times to beat them, so I will usually fight a boss 2-3 times and then call in 1-2 phantoms if I just want to get through it at that point and move on to the next area.

Fairly late-game, I summoned a dude for a bossfight. That dude then two-shot the boss with magic. Yeah, summons do make things easy. I do summon people though. My goal is to die as little as possible and make good progress through the game, not playing by some codex of honor. Albeit in the first playthrough, my compulsive need to max out weapons resulted in me being grossly overleveled. Not that melee-centric characters ever get as OP as casters. In fact, I find the scaling beyond 30 STR/DEX to be laughable. The increased stamina cost for heavier weapons does negate any increased base damage anyways, which results in lower DPS and much higher risk.

I summon all the damn time. If it's okay for me to be invaded (which hasn't happened once, except for annoying ass Rat Bro's), then it's okay for me to summon two dudes against bosses. When I hear people say "oh you're cheating yourself" or whatever I think it's nonsense and elitist. It can't be okay to have some dick come into my game and grief me, but not okay for me to summon assistance.

To me the fun is getting to the actual boss, not the boss itself. Once there I summon away and we generally destroy it easily.

I've found summoning most useful for practice runs at a boss. I just help other people 3 or 4 times without any consequence then pop in for my own run. And helping others clear the boss gives you a chance to become human again and get your own posse together. It has unquestionably made the game easier the first run through, but it's also made it less of a backtracking chore.

I think DS2 did some really intelligent and subtle things to reduce the backtracking agony. Bonfire placement, easier summoning, instant fast travel and despawning enemies come together to make the experience more fluid. But ultimately it's all just a difficulty slider that you control.

Yeah that is why I usually save summoning for ng+ or my second character.

Co-op is the main reason I enjoy the souls series so much. As many as those that play the souls series as some test of their manhood or whatever there are just as many who just enjoy the combat and taking down all kinds of monsters.

I've taken down about 7 bosses and summoned help with about 2 or 3, the gargoyles/ruin sentinels/lost sinner. Tried them a few times on my own and simply got owned, but it was so much more fun with co-op.

there are so many ways to play the souls series that I hope it can break free of the many preconceived must play this certain way to be a souls fan.

So you're going to solo Ancient Dragon?