They need to change the way Soul Memory works.

#1 Posted by DrGreatJob (127 posts) -

First off, I love this game. I think it's the third great Souls game that From Software has made. I understand that there are problems with the series that have been prevalent through the series, such as twinkers (people with high-end gear at low SL invaders) and whatnot. But why did they feel the need to solve this problem by creating another, much bigger problem?

I enjoyed this game on my first playthrough. I completed it in a few days, but now I've created a second character to do PvP and Co-op. I mostly avoided summoning dudes or putting down my sign the first time through. I summoned for one fight and it totally trivialized it, so I avoided it for the remainder of the playthrough. But now, I'm looking for some PvP and jolly cooperation. Things were going well until I amassed almost 2 million souls on my SL 80 character. This isn't a difficult task, just requires some successful sunbro-ing and defeating bosses. Now, I am unable to summon almost anywhere, and I get next to no hits on my white sign soapstone. I got frustrated, and decided to try PvP. Alas, nothing happens.

I'm not saying that Soul Memory isn't a good idea in theory, but given the variety of ways one can protect themselves from invaders (burning effigies, blue covenant, etc.) it is totally unnecessary at higher SLs. Who is being protected at SL 60+ by soul memory? Nobody. Who is being hurt? People that want to enjoy the online components of the game (like 80% of the players, at least.) I have this SL 80 sunbro character that is essentially useless now because I cannot summon or be summoned. Great. Thanks for your help, From Software.

We need to get their attention and get this changed or removed. I am far from the only person that has complaints about this. If you want to have a better game experience, help everyone out by signing this petition:

http://www.change.org/petitions/namco-bandai-fix-the-soul-memory-and-limited-respawn-system-in-dark-souls-ii

#2 Edited by SoldierG654342 (1734 posts) -

The solution is to level up and move on to different bosses. By 2 milling Soul Memory you should be around 130.

There was a concentrated effort on From's part to make it so you can't play Dark Souls II like Dark Souls. There's no reason not to level now in this game, as summons and invasion are tired to both Soul Memory and Level. Soul Memory is not only for invasions, it's another anti-grinding mechanism. It's totally understandable not to like it, but the game is designed around it. The lowering of leveling requirements also means that SL80 is actually kind of a low level.

Plus, it apparently goes away on NG+ and beyond, where apparently this game really opens up.

#3 Posted by MiniPato (2719 posts) -

I don't see what the problem is unless you've run into a boss that you absolutely can't solo. I'm Soul Level 120 and I've been consistently summoning and have been consistently summoned. Grinding is grinding, but it's time to move on man.

#4 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5327 posts) -

You can't just stay in one area and do summons there nonstop, this solves the problem in Dark Souls where there were only a few areas that summons occurred with any frequency. Albeit you could probably do Dragon Shrine and Iron Keep for 50 SLs a piece; one because Smelter is ridiculous and the other because it is effectively endgame and seems kind of balanced for co-op as the enemies are absurd for any melee character (though getting good at fighting them without a shield will make you good at fighting stuff like Darklurker)

#5 Posted by Sterling (2061 posts) -

First off, its your own fault for staying at level 80 in the first place.

This is only an issue for people that want to gank and troll other players. Its not broken and it works just fine. Its a great addition. Everyone who signed that petition are the ass hats that made many people stop playing and not enjoy the first game. Because shits doing what you just said you are trying to do (staying lower level with getting high end gear) would invaded level 20 characters and fuck their shit up. So boo fuckin' hoo.

I am level 168 and have 3.3 million soul memory. I have no problem with PvP or co-op, none. I see summon signs everywhere. I still get summoned within a minute. And I get invaded more frequently than before. I was invaded 4 times last night in the same area. And I see red and dragon summon signs everywhere. So I can call people in to fight when ever I want. Also the bell and rat summons still work the second I step foot in those areas. There is plenty of PvP in this game. But you are going to have to have a fair fight this time. No more cheap easy wins.

So again, the only reason people are complaining about this, is because they can not troll low level users anymore. So once again, boo fuckin' hoo.

#6 Posted by Daftronaut (30 posts) -

@drgreatjob: I completely agree and I'm also really sceptical about the whole concept of soul memory. Now I'm forced to create a character ONLY for PVP that I'm not allowed to play with otherwise, since that would raise my soul memory and potentially prevent me from fighting players with a similar level....

#7 Posted by Demoskinos (14561 posts) -

Yeah I'm just going to agree with the sentiment in here and say that I think Soul Memory is a fine concept.

#8 Posted by SomeJerk (3138 posts) -

Yeah fuck us who spent hundreds of happy hours in DS with characters sticking to SL being summonbros getting thankful messages in thanks, poster number five who does not deserve a mention by name.

#9 Edited by Hunkulese (2641 posts) -
#10 Posted by Lukeweizer (2607 posts) -

I'm SL 150 at the Undead Crypt and haven't had any problems summoning or being summoned. You just gotta know when to move on and run into players more your Soul Memory.

#11 Posted by darkendskys (18 posts) -

Soul memory hasn't been A Problem, you just need to move to a new spot.

That player you helped fight the boss with in the last section? Move with them to the next and start over there.

#12 Posted by Skyrider (330 posts) -

@drgreatjob: Gat damn, I'm level 70 something and I don't think my soul memory is even one quarter of yours. At least soul memory isn't taken into account in NG+?

#13 Posted by Brodehouse (9576 posts) -

Dark Souls jargon remains hysterical.

#14 Posted by Sterling (2061 posts) -

@somejerk: Then you should move on to the next area. You can still do exactly that and level up without any issues. I do it no problem. I help with each boss I come to for hours. And when the summoning slows down I move on. Hence why my soul memory and level are so damn high at the end of the game. Its never been an issue for me. I even went back and helped at smelter the other day when I was around 145. Still had no issues being summoned. And then with another area I used an ascetic to move that area in NG+, and the summoning happened super frequent all over again. So don't try and use that as excuse why it needs to be removed. As I stated, the only people that have a true issue with this are those that don't understand it, or just want to gank low level players. I currently have 200 something of those white things (forget the name right now) you get from helping with the white sign. And I am a level 3 sunbro (or what ever its actually called this time around), and I have 28 sun medals in my inventory after spending the 30 right now.

Now in a year or more will it be an issue for co-op, probably. But it wont be for PvP.

#15 Posted by smokeyd123 (324 posts) -

Yeah I'm just going to agree with the sentiment in here and say that I think Soul Memory is a fine concept.

Yup. SL 140, 1.7 mil. No problems summoning/getting summoned in any area really, except maybe Forest of fallen Giants.

#16 Posted by Zevvion (1830 posts) -

The solution is to level up and move on to different bosses. By 2 milling Soul Memory you should be around 130.

There was a concentrated effort on From's part to make it so you can't play Dark Souls II like Dark Souls. There's no reason not to level now in this game, as summons and invasion are tired to both Soul Memory and Level. Soul Memory is not only for invasions, it's another anti-grinding mechanism. It's totally understandable not to like it, but the game is designed around it. The lowering of leveling requirements also means that SL80 is actually kind of a low level.

Plus, it apparently goes away on NG+ and beyond, where apparently this game really opens up.

Is this true? Damn, if this is true I have no idea why I keep waiting around in Drangleic Castle to get summoned and just start NG+ already.

#17 Edited by Spoonman671 (4554 posts) -

Yeah, and they need to bring back the scraping spear, too! *eye roll*

#18 Posted by mlarrabee (2885 posts) -

I don't even know what Soul Memory is.

I'm just here to laugh that change.org has a Dark Souls 2 petition.

#19 Posted by MB (11964 posts) -

I bet you could get every person who bought Dark Souls 2 to sign that petition and From still wouldn't pay any attention to it.

Moderator
#20 Posted by tourgen (4427 posts) -

Working as intended.

Play the game in the box instead of insisting they change it to fit your old habits.

#21 Edited by Ezekiel (370 posts) -

I like this change. It prevents players from idling in the same few areas for PvP encounters and endlessly ganging up on invaders. Souls isn't a series you're supposed to play with friends. It was meant to be anonymous, which is why you couldn't type or communicate verbally. It's unfortunate they bended to fans with DS II by incorporating voice communication. The multiplayer was designed to add to the role-playing experience. You were supposed to get what your character needed in the area and then move on. I find that idling gets dull before an hour and negates the reason my character is there. I wish they went further with anonymity and role-playing by displaying your character name instead of your player name in multiplayer.

However, I wouldn't mind an arena mode separate from the story into which you can load your characters. It would get rid of all the people who don't play these games for the story or who aren't going to stick with the game because of soul memory and please both sides.

#22 Posted by SoldierG654342 (1734 posts) -

@zevvion said:

@soldierg654342 said:

The solution is to level up and move on to different bosses. By 2 milling Soul Memory you should be around 130.

There was a concentrated effort on From's part to make it so you can't play Dark Souls II like Dark Souls. There's no reason not to level now in this game, as summons and invasion are tired to both Soul Memory and Level. Soul Memory is not only for invasions, it's another anti-grinding mechanism. It's totally understandable not to like it, but the game is designed around it. The lowering of leveling requirements also means that SL80 is actually kind of a low level.

Plus, it apparently goes away on NG+ and beyond, where apparently this game really opens up.

Is this true? Damn, if this is true I have no idea why I keep waiting around in Drangleic Castle to get summoned and just start NG+ already.

From what I understand, yes (just beat the game today and haven't NG+ yet myself). The SL range is still present but Soul Memory isn't. But you can only interact with others in NG+.

#23 Posted by BisonHero (6154 posts) -

lolololololololololol at thinking that 80% of players want to get involved with summoning/invading. Wow, you have no ability to gauge whether the style in which you play games is common or not.

#24 Posted by brutussss (1 posts) -

@sterling: @sterling: need help..im a beginner anf i only sl 40..i cant get pass the old dragon slayer..i think i wanted to summon but i cant find any of the summon signs.what happened? If u all want to call me noob, whatever but i enjoy this game only not that skillful enough so i guess i need help

#25 Posted by Zevvion (1830 posts) -

@sterling: @sterling: need help..im a beginner anf i only sl 40..i cant get pass the old dragon slayer..i think i wanted to summon but i cant find any of the summon signs.what happened? If u all want to call me noob, whatever but i enjoy this game only not that skillful enough so i guess i need help

You need to be human for summon signs to appear. You become human by using a Human Effigy or putting your own summon sign down and succesfully helping another player (that means either until the time lapses or you defeat a boss). For Old Dragon Slayer, signs are typically places just before the fog door. Alternatively, if there aren't any and you're playing on PC or Xbox 360, I could help you out.

However, you do not need to defeat Old Dragonslayer. He is optional. You might want to explore another area and return for him later perhaps.

#26 Edited by dudeglove (7684 posts) -

It works well up until about the endgame, wherein the sky becomes the limit for character level/stats/equipment. This is just my own observations, I don't really have any hard data.

Less than 1 million in soul memory (up to around 900k) is okay for both Lost Sinner and Old Iron King. After 1 million you have access to Drangleic and ostensibly the rest of the game (meaning you don't need to go anywhere near Tseldora or Gulch. Mid 2 million is good for the Undead Crypt and final boss. After 3 million seems to be when you should probably consider moving onto NG+ as final boss summons become less frequent.

The frustration arises in whether or not you should level stats, or invest in equipment upgrades. Generally, leveling seems a better investment of souls, as plenty of items and upgrade ores can be found free of charge, although you still need to spend souls to upgrade of course.

I see where they're coming from with the system, but I'd still liked to have had more of a choice as to when I can move on. A significant part of the appeal of DS1 PvP were those specialty builds (e.g. folk dueling with lvl 50s only etc.) or other novelties. Unfortunately you don't see any of that until much later in the game, if you're even invaded at all. Maybe a smarter balance could have been struck between soul memory and soul level, but I have to say it's kind of funny that the OP has sort of boned themselves by not leveling.

#27 Posted by RawknRo11a (551 posts) -

@drgreatjob: so, if your only SL 80 and your Soul Memory is around 200mill, where did the rest of your souls go?

#28 Posted by Zevvion (1830 posts) -

It works well up until about the endgame, wherein the sky becomes the limit for character level/stats/equipment. This is just my own observations, I don't really have any hard data.

Less than 1 million in soul memory (up to around 900k) is okay for both Lost Sinner and Old Iron King. After 1 million you have access to Drangleic and ostensibly the rest of the game (meaning you don't need to go anywhere near Tseldora or Gulch. Mid 2 million is good for the Undead Crypt and final boss. After 3 million seems to be when you should probably consider moving onto NG+ as final boss summons become less frequent.

The frustration arises in whether or not you should level stats, or invest in equipment upgrades. Generally, leveling seems a better investment of souls, as plenty of items and upgrade ores can be found free of charge, although you still need to spend souls to upgrade of course.

I see where they're coming from with the system, but I'd still liked to have had more of a choice as to when I can move on. A significant part of the appeal of DS1 PvP were those specialty builds (e.g. folk dueling with lvl 50s only etc.) or other novelties. Unfortunately you don't see any of that until much later in the game, if you're even invaded at all. Maybe a smarter balance could have been struck between soul memory and soul level, but I have to say it's kind of funny that the OP has sort of boned themselves by not leveling.

Appeal? I think you mean frustration. Dark Souls was ridden with people of SL20 invading beginners and other people starting a new character with maxed out equipment. Yes, they are SL20, but they might as well be SL80 with the gear they used. The entire reason why Soul Memory is implemented is because people hated how it worked in Dark Souls; it wasn't appeal. The idea behind Soul Memory is that if you go and max out your gear and stay in SL20, this time you won't be able to invade SL20 guys because all your grinding puts you in a different league.

The idea is sound, the execution is a bit too harsh. I personally do not see why it needs to apply to summons as well. Yes, I get they might not want people to summon insanely powerful allies when they get stuck, but ultimately that stuff doesn't matter at all. You can summon a skilled player who can defeat the boss solo without maxed gear anyway, so all it is really doing is limiting people from playing together.

I do have to say that PvP in DSII is a lot better than in DS and partly because of Soul Memory. I haven't encountered any invader who outclassed me in gear with the exception of duels in the Arena, but that is acceptable. I just don't like how it applies to summons as well.

#29 Posted by dudeglove (7684 posts) -

@zevvion said:

@dudeglove said:

It works well up until about the endgame, wherein the sky becomes the limit for character level/stats/equipment. This is just my own observations, I don't really have any hard data.

Less than 1 million in soul memory (up to around 900k) is okay for both Lost Sinner and Old Iron King. After 1 million you have access to Drangleic and ostensibly the rest of the game (meaning you don't need to go anywhere near Tseldora or Gulch. Mid 2 million is good for the Undead Crypt and final boss. After 3 million seems to be when you should probably consider moving onto NG+ as final boss summons become less frequent.

The frustration arises in whether or not you should level stats, or invest in equipment upgrades. Generally, leveling seems a better investment of souls, as plenty of items and upgrade ores can be found free of charge, although you still need to spend souls to upgrade of course.

I see where they're coming from with the system, but I'd still liked to have had more of a choice as to when I can move on. A significant part of the appeal of DS1 PvP were those specialty builds (e.g. folk dueling with lvl 50s only etc.) or other novelties. Unfortunately you don't see any of that until much later in the game, if you're even invaded at all. Maybe a smarter balance could have been struck between soul memory and soul level, but I have to say it's kind of funny that the OP has sort of boned themselves by not leveling.

Appeal? I think you mean frustration.

Yep, there was certainly that. I think the sequel did a better job this time around of gating certain equipment with stats, as opposed to HEY THE GAME'S JUST STARTED, THERE'S THE ZWEIHANDER WHICH YOU CAN START MURDERING WITH IN ABOUT TEN MINUTES, but soul memory feels like an additional and somewhat unnecessary barrier. Maybe if it significantly reduced the rate at which your sign appeared in other worlds (meaning certain SLs could still get you), as opposed to just a hard gate of "x soul memory levels up/y levels down", or if your summoning time gets reduced significantly if you're way out of the standard summon range, that might be more user-friendly (although I'm guessing the main point was to reduce twinking). I'm not against it, it forces you to progress (if you're relying on the mechanic), but losing the ability to casually just want to help someone run through Blighttown 2.0 or any shitty area kinda blows.

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