What do you think about the respawn stop?

#1 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

Ok I do not know if its new infos but at least it became news for me today. Apparently if you die a lot in Dark Souls 2, Enemies will not respawn again. You can them somehow respawn again through an item or so but generally they will just stop according to your die counter?

Personally I think this is a very very bad move. Yes it is becoming maybe more accessible for newcomers but do we really want this? With this game gaining more and more popularity it was just a matter of time that this came became more "casual" and I really do not like this at all.

What about you guys? Do you like this new "feature" or more casual approach? And even more do you fear that there is even more stuff like this in this game to make it more easier and less frustrating for new players?

#2 Edited by EuanDewar (4758 posts) -

Depends on how much you have to die for it to activate and how easy it is to turn it off/negate.

#3 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

I hadn't heard about this until now.

Could you please not post potential spoilers to Dark Souls II in titles? That would be appreciated. A lot of people are trying to avoid hearing more details about DSII before launch, and just placing it in a title means anyone browsing the Giant Bomb forum will see it.

#4 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

I hadn't heard about this until now.

Could you please not post potential spoilers to Dark Souls II in titles? That would be appreciated.

I do not think you can call this a spoiler at all. If so I am sorry. Any suggestions how I else should call it?

#5 Edited by NeoCalypso (147 posts) -

Oh wow I actually noticed this in the network test they had awhile back. There were these big guys(that reminded me of the big guys with the rocks in Blighttown seen above) and after about 5 or so deaths in that area one of em stopped respawning and I was totally wondering why. There was on further along the path that did not despawn and I'm pretty sure the inital one came back after a bit as well so I dunno what was goin on.

#6 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

It's definitely hard to make the title without some kind of spoiler to how a mechanic has changed. I suppose you could at least make it less clear. So, instead of "stop", make it "change".

"What do you think about the change to respawning?" Sure it still indicates a change, but it at least doesn't convey the nature of that change.

#7 Posted by ThunderSlash (1555 posts) -

From what I've played of the beta, this game is much harder than Dark Souls; and I've done a Level 1 run in Dark Souls. They also have the ability to activate a special hard mode in the beta (Think Pure Black Tendency but for DS2), not sure what to make of it for the full release. There'll probably be a way for people looking for a bigger challenge to manually activate it.

#8 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@truthtellah: Hmm sounds good. But strangely I can not change it anymore. I can edit my second post but not the first one or the title at all...

There are also more Features that makes the game eaiser: I will put them into a spoiler block just to be sure^^

  • Bonfires are much closer together:
  • Fast traveling from the begining

There are two more "features I know of and that makes the game much eaiser in my opinion.

#9 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

From what I've played of the beta, this game is much harder than Dark Souls; and I've done a Level 1 run in Dark Souls. They also have the ability to activate a special hard mode in the beta (Think Pure Black Tendency but for DS2), not sure what to make of it for the full release. There'll probably be a way for people looking for a bigger challenge to manually activate it.

heh. I imagine that if there is a manually activated special hard mode, there will be people out there saying that's the only "real" way to play the game.

#10 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

heh. Don't worry about it; I know changing titles can be weird. Just for the future.

And hey, we'll see if those really make it easier. I have a feeling these things that make it "easier" are just counterbalances to things that have made it a lot harder.

#11 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@truthtellah: they said to reduce frustration and to get easier to bosses for players which I think is a bad idea for this kind of game since part of this game and whats so great about it is frustration and then overcomming these difficult parts.

#12 Posted by Mycroft_Ampersand (75 posts) -

@darji said:

@truthtellah: Hmm sounds good. But strangely I can not change it anymore. I can edit my second post but not the first one or the title at all...

There are also more Features that makes the game eaiser: I will put them into a spoiler block just to be sure^^

  • Bonfires are much closer together:
  • Fast traveling from the begining

There are two more "features I know of and that makes the game much eaiser in my opinion.

I think it will depend on how they implement the respawn change in terms of how many times you have to die before it is enabled and how easily it is to have the enemies begin respawn again, as EuanDewar says above.

As for the two features that you mention in spoiler blocks, they may be less about making the game easier and more about simply cutting down on backtracking and running through areas where you have already killed the enemies. Both of which can be rather tedious in Dark Souls.

#13 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

I'm guessing they won't be letting you down on that. They may simply be providing the option. I have a feeling that, like ThunderSlash said, there may just be more options for how you play. The challenging, frustrating, and rewarding Dark Souls is likely still quite alive and well.

We won't know for sure on any of this though until it's actually out and we die a thousand times ourselves. ;)

#14 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@truthtellah: Since I have pre ordered the PC version I even have to wait a bit longer but yeah. These things just feel a bit strange sine it is common that games get more "casual" with more and more popularity.

#15 Posted by Pr1mus (3811 posts) -

Sounds good to me. Usually after the first or second time at most through an area i almost never die to regular enemies. I die to bosses and having to run through some areas to get back to the bosses can be super tedious when you know there's basically no challenge left from regular enemies but still need to kill/evade a bunch of them anyway.

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#16 Edited by MannyMAR (407 posts) -

It's not that bad when you think about it considering: a) that person will miss out on acquiring all the possible souls in the area in question. b) It really won't affect multiplayer situations since it's tied to soul level and time played. c) It could be there for the possibility that there may be encounters that break the game when you're full blown hollow and have no items to restore your max health gauge.

There's always the option to use the Bonfire Ascetic if you find things to be too easy.

#17 Edited by Sterling (2073 posts) -

I think this is super stupid.

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#18 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -
@mannymar said:

It's not that bad when you think about it considering: a) that person will miss out on acquiring all the possible souls in the area in question. b) It really won't affect multiplayer situations since it's tied to soul level and time played. c) It could be there for the possibility that there may be encounters that break the game when you're full blown hollow and have no items to restore your max health gauge.

There's always the option to use the Bonfire Ascetic if you find things to be too easy.

Oh man, I didn't even consider that. If they limit respawns, they could limit farming of souls from big enemies. That might be rough, because at a certain point, you've just gotta progress no matter if you've grinded enough.

#19 Edited by AltonBrown (948 posts) -

Supposedly, it's only for certain enemies, and only after you kill them a certain number of times.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-first-20-deaths-of-dark-souls-2/1100-6417407/

#20 Posted by ripelivejam (3543 posts) -

i like how spoilers for DS are gameplay mechanics.

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#21 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

Supposedly, it's only for miniboss type enemies, and only after you kill them a certain number of times.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-first-20-deaths-of-dark-souls-2/1100-6417407/

I think this is wrong since miniboss like enemies never respawned at all in Dark Souls or Demon Souls. They do this respawn thing to get easier to bosses. Doing this for minibosses makes no sense.

#22 Posted by spraynardtatum (2607 posts) -

I think if the item that you use to make them respawn is infinite or easy to obtain than it's the best of both worlds.

#23 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

Extremely misleading thread based on the Gamespot information:

"As I experience some difficulty getting past this stone man, I'm told that certain enemies will only respawn near each bonfire a certain number of times, which the PR rep estimates to be about 15. However, you'll need to actually kill them rather than simply respawn at the bonfire for this counter to increase. The developers made this change to stop you from grinding; with no enemies to gather souls from to then spend on levelling up, you are eventually forced to venture into dangerous, unknown territory. This also makes repeated runs to a boss encounter less frustrating. The knowledge is reassuring as I finally sprint past the stone man and down a dark corridor to safety, whereupon I turn a corner and am skewered by a zombie wielding a claymore as large as his own body."

Just means no infinite grinding, you do actually have to kill the enemies a set number of times. If you're dying 15 times to a boss (but have cleared the rest of the area) having an easier route there on the 16th time isn't going to help you out much.

#24 Edited by AltonBrown (948 posts) -

@darji: Read the article. No point in speculating when the information's right there, ya know?

#25 Posted by CornBREDX (4812 posts) -

As long as sitting at the bonfire to purposefully reset them doesn't count I think it's fine.

This sounds like part of their attempt to make the game more accessible which I m more than happy to wait and see how it goes. I very much want them to be successful so I am not going to freak out about elements like this.

At the same time I also do not want the spawns to "stop" so I hope they have a way to make it so they don't as well. I don't want it to stop respawning if I have a bad run and die to many times. I am fine with the respawns.

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#26 Posted by Shiro2809 (54 posts) -

@fredchuckdave: Oh, wow, I was thinking this was really stupid but that's actually awesome! No more forest-style grinding exploits!

#27 Posted by ajamafalous (11850 posts) -

@fredchuckdave: Oh, wow, I was thinking this was really stupid but that's actually awesome! No more forest-style grinding exploits!

I wouldn't call "killing enemies and then resting at a bonfire to reset them" an 'exploit.'

#28 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@fredchuckdave said:

Extremely misleading thread based on the Gamespot information:

"As I experience some difficulty getting past this stone man, I'm told that certain enemies will only respawn near each bonfire a certain number of times, which the PR rep estimates to be about 15. However, you'll need to actually kill them rather than simply respawn at the bonfire for this counter to increase. The developers made this change to stop you from grinding; with no enemies to gather souls from to then spend on levelling up, you are eventually forced to venture into dangerous, unknown territory. This also makes repeated runs to a boss encounter less frustrating. The knowledge is reassuring as I finally sprint past the stone man and down a dark corridor to safety, whereupon I turn a corner and am skewered by a zombie wielding a claymore as large as his own body."

Just means no infinite grinding, you do actually have to kill the enemies a set number of times. If you're dying 15 times to a boss (but have cleared the rest of the area) having an easier route there on the 16th time isn't going to help you out much.

@altonbrown This is what I meant. It is not for minibosses but for every enemy. And to be honest. I do not like it. Maybe because I never really grinded in the first place for levels. Yes forcing you to move on is a good thing but remove respawn is a bad way of doing this in my opinion. Put this together with shorter distances to bonfires and instant option to warp. This makes the game much easier and Dark Souls was not even really hard except 1 or 2 really unfair parts like the archer staircase for example.

#29 Edited by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

I don't think any of us can really judge whether it makes the game less challenging as a whole until we actually play the final game. We can speculate, but from what I've heard, it's likely going to be challenging, if not even more so than the original.

This seems more like a topic for after the game is out. "Do you like how the respawning works?" That way, people can actually judge based on having any evidence of how it is.

#30 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@truthtellah said:

I don't think any of us can really judge whether it makes the game less challenging as a whole until we actually play the final game. We can speculate, but from what I've heard, it's likely going to be challenging, if not even more so than the original.

That is my problem. If lets say IGN or gamespot says that it is becoming even more challenging than I just can not believe this, because honestly these people play their games on normal and usually lacking a great deal of skill. If some non press Dark Souls veteran says it, than yeah I will believe him much easier in this regard. I just do not trust the gaming press for these kind of things at all.

#31 Posted by TruthTellah (8537 posts) -

So because some people in the gaming press said something, the opposite must be true? Seems like your best bet would be to just not even care about this until you actually get to play the game and get impressions from fellow Dark Souls players whose opinions you trust.

#32 Edited by ThunderSlash (1555 posts) -

Gamespot: "I'm told that certain enemies will only respawn near each bonfire a certain number of times, which the PR rep estimates to be about 15."

Darji: It is not for minibosses but for every enemy.

I think you might have misinterpreted the article.

#33 Posted by Humanity (8813 posts) -

I'm more interested to see how much this will feel like a new game and not a huge expansion pack.

The mehcanics already remained very similar from Demons to Dark Souls, but the world changed entirely and the bonfires provided enough of a change to make it feel a bit more fresh. Dark Souls 2 seems to retain a lot of the base mechanics, so I'm curious how people will feel about it.

#34 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@thunderslash said:

Gamespot: "I'm told that certain enemies will only respawn near each bonfire a certain number of times, which the PR rep estimates to be about 15."

Darji: It is not for minibosses but for every enemy.

I think you might have misinterpreted the article.

From my understanding that means that other enemies will not respawn at all. Because if it were only for minibosses that would be no change at all to the other 2 games except that these would also respawn which would be kind of stupid given they have some kind of special Item as loot. . And given I trust the neogaf thread way more than people from sites like Gamespot in these kind of things. So it just makes no sense. I hope you are getting where I am coming from.

@truthtellah yeah maybe but I became much more suspicious when From Software back then said they want it to make more accessible even through they changed their statement later on because it was getting negative press.

#35 Edited by Shiro2809 (54 posts) -

@ajamafalous: I meant more in terms of having the enemies kill themselves, like in the forest exploit. You're exploiting their pathing! I am hoping they'll reign it back at tad, as running through a level with no enemies would be disappointing if you die to much.

#36 Posted by phantomzxro (1565 posts) -

@mannymar said:

It's not that bad when you think about it considering: a) that person will miss out on acquiring all the possible souls in the area in question. b) It really won't affect multiplayer situations since it's tied to soul level and time played. c) It could be there for the possibility that there may be encounters that break the game when you're full blown hollow and have no items to restore your max health gauge.

There's always the option to use the Bonfire Ascetic if you find things to be too easy.

Oh man, I didn't even consider that. If they limit respawns, they could limit farming of souls from big enemies. That might be rough, because at a certain point, you've just gotta progress no matter if you've grinded enough.

Yeah i was guessing it would be to save from farming souls to power level your character.

#37 Posted by Aetheldod (3511 posts) -

Thats sounds terrible from my point of view :(

#38 Posted by Roomrunner (791 posts) -

My experience with Dark Souls has been that if you cannot confidently steamroll through all the enimes between you and the boss, you aren't ready for the boss.

Making that journey easier is just building them up for more disappointment when they hit a wall with a boss they shouldn't be fighting yet.

#39 Posted by Sterling (2073 posts) -

My experience with Dark Souls has been that if you cannot confidently steamroll through all the enimes between you and the boss, you aren't ready for the boss.

Making that journey easier is just building them up for more disappointment when they hit a wall with a boss they shouldn't be fighting yet.

You have to kill the enemy the set number of times. Not it kill you a set number of times. So its not like people will be brute forcing their way to an areas they shouldn't be at yet. Its more to prevent farming than anything. You kill this group of high soul dropping enemies a set number of times and they don't re-spawn the rest of the play through. Its really not as bad as it sounds. I thought it was stupid at first. but the more I think about it, I like it.

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#40 Edited by TobbRobb (4580 posts) -

Wouldn't this just eventually make the game lifeless. I usually spend a decent chunk of time backtracking/exploring and repeating areas for various reasons. I don't think I'd like to just eventually create an empty field. :(

I'm not sure why grinding is a big issue for them. Even if I don't really ever grind for souls, it's not hard to see why someone would. And it's singleplayer right? Who cares if someone is spending a little time getting buff to help out later.

#41 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

@tobbrobb: It shouldn't if it is a large upper limit and only certain enemies, also aside from the first playthrough you're probably not lingering for longer than 10-15 hours. Dark Anor Londo isn't lifeless for comparison.

#42 Edited by ThunderSlash (1555 posts) -

@tobbrobb: It's only for certain enemies, not all of them. Think of them like the black knights in Dark Souls, except you gotta kill them a couple of times before they stop spawning.

#43 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@tobbrobb: It's only for certain enemies, not all of them. Think of them like the black knights in Dark Souls, except you gotta kill them a couple of times before they stop spawning.

This makes no sense....

If it were only for certain enemies that would mean you could grind more than before since Demon and Dark Souls always had these enemies that are not re-spawning. Also these enemies normally carry special Items so you could even grind them too. It is not for certain enemies. The article writes it like no one will re-spawn except certain enemies which would makes sense if you consider and want to reduce the grinding aspect. With your explanation you could grind even more than before.

#44 Posted by rocketboot (128 posts) -

Come to think of it, I never really do a lot of farming for souls but I do farm for stuff like chunks, slabs, BSS(lol) etc. I wonder if this kind of thing is going to make those rare drops even rarer. On that note has I wonder what will effect drop rates now that the Humanity counter is gone. Possibly how hollow you are?

#45 Edited by ThunderSlash (1555 posts) -

@darji said:

@thunderslash said:

@tobbrobb: It's only for certain enemies, not all of them. Think of them like the black knights in Dark Souls, except you gotta kill them a couple of times before they stop spawning.

This makes no sense....

If it were only for certain enemies that would mean you could grind more than before since Demon and Dark Souls always had these enemies that are not re-spawning. Also these enemies normally carry special Items so you could even grind them too. It is not for certain enemies. The article writes it like no one will re-spawn except certain enemies which would makes sense if you consider and want to reduce the grinding aspect. With your explanation you could grind even more than before.

That article states that "certain enemies will only respawn near each bonfire a certain number of times." Note the phrases "certain enemies" and "certain number of times." How does that statement imply that no one will respawn except certain enemies? It seems to imply the opposite from how I'm reading it: That there are select handpicked enemies (they don't need to be special enemies that drop special loot or anything) that are placed in the map; and if you kill them a number of times, they stop appearing to lessen the amount of enemies on the map. Everyone else will keep respawning. This only affects the minority of enemies, not the majority.

#46 Posted by Sterling (2073 posts) -

@rocketboot: That is a good point. It might be more about drop items than soul farming. Making it harder to get materials/items you need in that play through.

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#47 Posted by Sinusoidal (1293 posts) -

Sounds like it's designed to stop things like the farming of the corridor of slimes right outside the sewer bonfire in Dark Souls - which I know I did for some time after I found out they dropped shards - not to actually make the game easier.

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