Dark Souls is harder than Demon's Souls... Like, a lot.

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Posted by Yummylee (22577 posts) -

I mean Holy Sexual Intercourse, Batman! This bastard is a real a bitch! I will always attest to Demon's Souls having a bit of a steep learning curve with a nasty metaphorical guillotine for any error in your play-style, but at the same time Demon's Souls wasn't all that particularly hard. Once you got the main path sorted (after a few dozen deaths to be sure) I at least could swim my way across. I could very easily play through Demon's Souls now and probably only die very sparingly, and only against some of the more aggravating bosses where I might just lose my patience.

I've always still thought that describing the difficulty for Demon's Souls is a tricky task because it's so varied and elaborate. I mean I'm of the faction that believes that Demon's Souls wasn't particularly difficult (least during the original run; those new-game+'s can be a right bastard) minus a couple of boss battles. I died, a lot, to be sure but as many can relate, it was most-often down to my own folly. I played Demons Souls straight from the get-go, too, (a US import for £52's... I literally to this day still don't entirely know why I ponied that much up for a game I knew little about besides its notorious difficulty and its setting) with no massive archive to walk you through virtually everything. I was a melee-focused Priest because I didn't even know Priests could learn magic and figured you were tied down to your characters strengths to the end like most class-based RPG games.

I was completely unprepared; my main weaponry consisted of a holy mace with the dark-silver shield for defense, and the large sword of moonlight for my offensive maneuvers. At that point, upgrading weapons was lost on for me the most part when it came to the unique weapons; I got my mace+shield pretty high up, though my moonlight sword stayed right at the bottom of the upgrade chain. It still completely kicked ass, though, for both PVE and PVP. I had some basic bow for the occasional long-range, and of course there were my miracles to administer buffs and such. A lot of the most hidden secrets were lost on me, and by the time I first completed the game I still had no notion of the world-tendency and character morality malarkey. Suffice to say, I played Demon's Souls only touching the surface, only equipped with the basics, and I prevailed fairly easily in the long run. I did still farm a lot, too, so I was always readily equipped with healing-supplies and other kinds of doodads.. Like I said, a couple of bosses would keep me cornered for a short while (I mean trying to beat the Flamelurker with a melee focused character on your first playthrough was a nightmare), though some extra soul players helped that out. But overall the game was fairly smooth for me; I even completed a few new-game+'s with that same character, too, though I faltered greatly during more of the PVP stuff since I still hadn't worked out much more about the game by that time.

Dark Souls on the other hand... well... that's just downright tough. To note the most obvious handicaps it's decided to pile on now above everything else:

  • The movement is significantly more skewed and slow, even when you're wearing light armour. No more rolling around, following a roll directly with another ='(.
  • The combat animations, too, feel even more deliberate and also makes Demon's Souls appear more arcadey in comparison.
  • The enemies are much more unpredictable, can now more often parry/backstab.
  • Enemies can also follow you much more prominently, and even the enemies you attempt to avoid will catch up with you again sometime, often getting from you behind when you least expect it.
  • Far as I know, I still haven't been introduced to someone who can sell me poison antidotes (I've just beaten the armoured bull for reference at my current progress), yet they still seem fit to throw G-Virus induced rats at you with a strong poison rate.
  • I still haven't found a guy to sell me a bow yet. I'm constricted with this shitty crossbow and the only 15 bolts I've accumulated thus far after my, predicted, 8-10 hours of playtime.
  • There are enemies you outright can't even kill now?! Least not without a weapon imbued with magic I assume?
  • Dark Souls own ''Dragon guarding a bridge'' also attacks much more randomly; sometimes it'll simply start breathing fire soon as I enter the black recesses, sometimes it'll give me enough time to reach the staircase.
  • Seriously, those giant rats are a real headsore.
  • You can't stock up on like 9999999 healing items anymore?!
  • They introduce the kick and jump-attack abilities, yet make them so cumbersome to perform.
  • The targeting is still a nightmare, but that hasn't changed from Demon's Souls. But put into the context of this much (imo at least) harder game, it results in even more frustration should it occasionally falter and force me to target the wrong enemy or make my camera roll around like i'm on a rollercoaster when an enemy dives past or falls of a cliff ect.
  • Severely limited spell/miracle use! With no replenishing items!

Now.. with all that, let me be clear: I still fucking love this game and the tears are still of happiness and joy (with a slight pinch of bitter). The urine is still from complete fear and petrification, however. I'm just commenting on my observation as to how... shit... they really stood by their word with making Dark Souls even harder. Some of it does seem a little unfair, the like the more constrained movement controls, but overall it is just From Software adding even more shit to the creek for you to sail up. While also puncturing your boat, naturally. I mean like my e-peen ejaculation up there reads, I considered Demon's Souls a unique challenge, asking of me nothing that many games these days ask of me. Even with such a tough ruleset to swallow when playing Demon's Souls, I found it to be a fairly smooth fit once I got a lot of the basic mechanics and fundamentals nailed. At this point I'd consider myself a veteran even, with the scars to prove it! But damn, man... Dark Souls is a whole other beast.

It reminds me of this level in Resident Evil: Outbreak File 2 (bear with me here...) where you'll have to face against a mutated Tyrant with large claws and a huge pile of rotten caviar resting on his back. He was a mean SOB, and always made you fear for your characters life whenever his theme music started, alerting you to his presence. Once you'd beat him and go through a specific set of gameplay motifs, you'd find yourself up on the room. Once there, you see the Tyrant once again within your view; he's climbing the building, but he looks tired and downright battered. Then this giant slushy, jelly-plant-thing called Nyx appears and envelops him, absorbs him. The Tyrant, a creature fittingly feared, trumped by an even bigger, nastier pile of fuckery. It took everything you new about how to contend with the Tyrant and forced you to flush it. Naturally the analogy of course features the Tyrant as Demon's Souls and Nyx as Dark Souls. Stupid, mostly irrelevant, but... I got nothin'.

TL;DR Dark Souls is much harder than I was anticipating, even with so many Demon's Souls neatly tucked under my belt.

Moral: DARK SOULS IS ACTUALLY JUST AS HARD AS IT PROFESSES TO BE.

#1 Edited by Yummylee (22577 posts) -

I mean Holy Sexual Intercourse, Batman! This bastard is a real a bitch! I will always attest to Demon's Souls having a bit of a steep learning curve with a nasty metaphorical guillotine for any error in your play-style, but at the same time Demon's Souls wasn't all that particularly hard. Once you got the main path sorted (after a few dozen deaths to be sure) I at least could swim my way across. I could very easily play through Demon's Souls now and probably only die very sparingly, and only against some of the more aggravating bosses where I might just lose my patience.

I've always still thought that describing the difficulty for Demon's Souls is a tricky task because it's so varied and elaborate. I mean I'm of the faction that believes that Demon's Souls wasn't particularly difficult (least during the original run; those new-game+'s can be a right bastard) minus a couple of boss battles. I died, a lot, to be sure but as many can relate, it was most-often down to my own folly. I played Demons Souls straight from the get-go, too, (a US import for £52's... I literally to this day still don't entirely know why I ponied that much up for a game I knew little about besides its notorious difficulty and its setting) with no massive archive to walk you through virtually everything. I was a melee-focused Priest because I didn't even know Priests could learn magic and figured you were tied down to your characters strengths to the end like most class-based RPG games.

I was completely unprepared; my main weaponry consisted of a holy mace with the dark-silver shield for defense, and the large sword of moonlight for my offensive maneuvers. At that point, upgrading weapons was lost on for me the most part when it came to the unique weapons; I got my mace+shield pretty high up, though my moonlight sword stayed right at the bottom of the upgrade chain. It still completely kicked ass, though, for both PVE and PVP. I had some basic bow for the occasional long-range, and of course there were my miracles to administer buffs and such. A lot of the most hidden secrets were lost on me, and by the time I first completed the game I still had no notion of the world-tendency and character morality malarkey. Suffice to say, I played Demon's Souls only touching the surface, only equipped with the basics, and I prevailed fairly easily in the long run. I did still farm a lot, too, so I was always readily equipped with healing-supplies and other kinds of doodads.. Like I said, a couple of bosses would keep me cornered for a short while (I mean trying to beat the Flamelurker with a melee focused character on your first playthrough was a nightmare), though some extra soul players helped that out. But overall the game was fairly smooth for me; I even completed a few new-game+'s with that same character, too, though I faltered greatly during more of the PVP stuff since I still hadn't worked out much more about the game by that time.

Dark Souls on the other hand... well... that's just downright tough. To note the most obvious handicaps it's decided to pile on now above everything else:

  • The movement is significantly more skewed and slow, even when you're wearing light armour. No more rolling around, following a roll directly with another ='(.
  • The combat animations, too, feel even more deliberate and also makes Demon's Souls appear more arcadey in comparison.
  • The enemies are much more unpredictable, can now more often parry/backstab.
  • Enemies can also follow you much more prominently, and even the enemies you attempt to avoid will catch up with you again sometime, often getting from you behind when you least expect it.
  • Far as I know, I still haven't been introduced to someone who can sell me poison antidotes (I've just beaten the armoured bull for reference at my current progress), yet they still seem fit to throw G-Virus induced rats at you with a strong poison rate.
  • I still haven't found a guy to sell me a bow yet. I'm constricted with this shitty crossbow and the only 15 bolts I've accumulated thus far after my, predicted, 8-10 hours of playtime.
  • There are enemies you outright can't even kill now?! Least not without a weapon imbued with magic I assume?
  • Dark Souls own ''Dragon guarding a bridge'' also attacks much more randomly; sometimes it'll simply start breathing fire soon as I enter the black recesses, sometimes it'll give me enough time to reach the staircase.
  • Seriously, those giant rats are a real headsore.
  • You can't stock up on like 9999999 healing items anymore?!
  • They introduce the kick and jump-attack abilities, yet make them so cumbersome to perform.
  • The targeting is still a nightmare, but that hasn't changed from Demon's Souls. But put into the context of this much (imo at least) harder game, it results in even more frustration should it occasionally falter and force me to target the wrong enemy or make my camera roll around like i'm on a rollercoaster when an enemy dives past or falls of a cliff ect.
  • Severely limited spell/miracle use! With no replenishing items!

Now.. with all that, let me be clear: I still fucking love this game and the tears are still of happiness and joy (with a slight pinch of bitter). The urine is still from complete fear and petrification, however. I'm just commenting on my observation as to how... shit... they really stood by their word with making Dark Souls even harder. Some of it does seem a little unfair, the like the more constrained movement controls, but overall it is just From Software adding even more shit to the creek for you to sail up. While also puncturing your boat, naturally. I mean like my e-peen ejaculation up there reads, I considered Demon's Souls a unique challenge, asking of me nothing that many games these days ask of me. Even with such a tough ruleset to swallow when playing Demon's Souls, I found it to be a fairly smooth fit once I got a lot of the basic mechanics and fundamentals nailed. At this point I'd consider myself a veteran even, with the scars to prove it! But damn, man... Dark Souls is a whole other beast.

It reminds me of this level in Resident Evil: Outbreak File 2 (bear with me here...) where you'll have to face against a mutated Tyrant with large claws and a huge pile of rotten caviar resting on his back. He was a mean SOB, and always made you fear for your characters life whenever his theme music started, alerting you to his presence. Once you'd beat him and go through a specific set of gameplay motifs, you'd find yourself up on the room. Once there, you see the Tyrant once again within your view; he's climbing the building, but he looks tired and downright battered. Then this giant slushy, jelly-plant-thing called Nyx appears and envelops him, absorbs him. The Tyrant, a creature fittingly feared, trumped by an even bigger, nastier pile of fuckery. It took everything you new about how to contend with the Tyrant and forced you to flush it. Naturally the analogy of course features the Tyrant as Demon's Souls and Nyx as Dark Souls. Stupid, mostly irrelevant, but... I got nothin'.

TL;DR Dark Souls is much harder than I was anticipating, even with so many Demon's Souls neatly tucked under my belt.

Moral: DARK SOULS IS ACTUALLY JUST AS HARD AS IT PROFESSES TO BE.

#2 Posted by yoshimitz707 (2453 posts) -

There's a merchant pretty early on in undeadsburg who will sell you a bow. From the bonfire next to the ladder you kick down, go right down the stairs and then left to the spear guys and the rest is pretty obvious.

Online
#3 Posted by musclerider (597 posts) -

You can buy a bow from a merchant who appears fairly early on in undeadburg. Just roll through the boxes/barrels next to those two spear guys near the bonfire.

As someone who started as deprived and didn't get armor until after ringing the first bell I can say that those rats constantly poisoning you is a real bitch.

#4 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -

The limited spell use isn't really that much of a problem, at least for magic based classes.  
Also, the fact that the Flasks heal you so much and that they're refilled when you sit at a bonfire is a pretty nice replacement for the herbs. 
Enemies you can't kill? Those don't exist, as far as I know, and you definitely wouldn't have encountered any from where you are in the game. Are you talking about the ghosts? You can kill them by cursing them. 
 
I actually think the targeting in Dark Souls is much, much worse than in Demon's. In the new game, when I lock onto an enemy, I can't switch to another enemy with the flick of the right analog stick. I'm actually locked onto one enemy and if I want to switch targets, I need to disable the lock, face the enemy I want to hit and lock again. I searched the options to see if I was missing anything, but I wasn't. This new system can be a real pain when you're playing a ranged build. 

#5 Posted by Yummylee (22577 posts) -

@yoshimitz707: @musclerider: Yeah, I've encountered that guy before, though I didn't browse much of his shit because my wallet was pretty much soulless at the time. I did forget just where he was I met him, so thanks for that all the same.

@FluxWaveZ: It's those skeletons in the graveyard I'm on about. They'd crumble everytime I'd hit them, and even when I'd empty their life bar I'd receive no souls and they'd revive pretty soon after as well. I'm kinda glad they weren't the Ghosts then because I can't curse anyway! I'm a Cleric (for old times sake with my original Priest from Demon's Souls), and my main offense is full-on melee. As for the flasks, I was always stocked on the white+black grass' as soon as they became available, so for me being limited to around 5 flasks at a time is a significant drop from what I'm used to. I don't know how I'd cope without my 5 extra heals with my miracle heal spell. I get by, but there's often times where I'll just ''reset'' at a bonfire because I was so sloppy and wouldn't want to risk already using a flask/miracle.

Also I agree that the camera can be really egregious when attempting to switch targets, but from what I recall that very issue cropped up a lot for me during Demon's Souls, too. Still sucks to all Hell of course.

#6 Posted by musclerider (597 posts) -

If you want more flasks just kindle a bonfire and it will give you 5 more from that point forward.

#7 Posted by Yummylee (22577 posts) -

@musclerider: So that's what kindling does? I've never even tried because I've had my rotten carcas rotting around as a Hollow all the time; besides being able to kindle, what other benefits are there to playing as a human?

#8 Posted by musclerider (597 posts) -

You can summon other players and invade worlds but that's about it (summoning other players can make certain bossfights much easier especially one of the ones you seem to be closing in on). Carrying humanity instead of just having it in your inventory boosts your item discovery. There's a merchant later on who sells humanity so it doesn't always need to be hoarded.

#9 Posted by RandomInternetUser (6789 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

I actually think the targeting in Dark Souls is much, much worse than in Demon's. In the new game, when I lock onto an enemy, I can't switch to another enemy with the flick of the right analog stick. I'm actually locked onto one enemy and if I want to switch targets, I need to disable the lock, face the enemy I want to hit and lock again. I searched the options to see if I was missing anything, but I wasn't. This new system can be a real pain when you're playing a ranged build.

I agree so much, this is where all my grief lies right now. You can switch with a flick of the right stick, but oh my god, it is inconsistent as hell. It really pisses me off and is usually why I get hit when I do, and because of that I get angrier at this game because it feels cheap when that happens. I never once found anything to be cheap in Demon's Souls, but so far after six or seven hours of playing, there is some cheap shit in this one. However, still having some of the most fun I've had with a game all year. Quite superb other than a few issues. Oh, the frame rate is also pretty annoying.

I was pissed about that dragon by the way. Then a helpful member happened to comment that you have to run on the left side of the bridge until you get to the stairs to be able to make it without getting hit. That worked pretty consistently for me.

I do hate the new healing system. I don't like that I'm usually limited to 5 flasks and I'm eventually forced to go to a bonfire to replenish them or die. In Demon's Souls you could keep on trucking as long as you had herbs.

I do agree this is harder, but not by too much. It's mainly from the limited health items and the shiiiiiiity targeting.

#11 Posted by CaptainTightPants (2834 posts) -
@Abyssfull: When you get to a forest area ( Dark Root )  there are some tree creatures that drop purple and red moss ball things.  The purple one is for poison. It isn't too far in.  I do agree with the kick and jump attack being a bit cumbersome though.  
The Dark Root forest area is fricken gorgeous btw.
#12 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4240 posts) -

Stop making me want to get a console. 
 
I've heard good things about this; although my definition of good is perhaps a little skewed.

#13 Posted by kingzetta (4307 posts) -

Saint's Row 3 is going to have to be pretty fucking awesome to steal the game of the year award away from Dark Souls for me.

#14 Posted by Yummylee (22577 posts) -

@musclerider: @Resident4t: Thanks again for the advice. I'd of preferred I learnt all of this simply through experience, so I could be the one gifting players with my gold-coated wisdom. But this thread is asking for it in some cases, and I did also quite literally ask for a lil' extra insight at one point, too ;P

@ahoodedfigure said:

Stop making me want to get a console. I've heard good things about this; although my definition of good is perhaps a little skewed.

The proverbial loaded gun at your head will never budge! From what I can gather, you're certainly something of an old-school RPG aficionado; it is near enough your right, no your duty, your goddamn fate... to spent at least 50 hours of your time staring at a You Died on your screen.

@kingzetta said:

Saint's Row 3 is going to have to be pretty fucking awesome to steal the game of the year award away from Dark Souls for me.

I agree with you there. Dark Souls is at the very least assured to be my Number Third on my GOTY list; the only remaining must-purchases for me are DR2: Off The Record (more DR2, but nothing that'll dazzle me I'm sure) Uncharted 3 (more than likely my GOTY) and Saints Row The Third (strongly competing for the second place, I'm wagering, once the time comes).

It'll be a complete mimic from 2009 GOTY list as well, where it had Uncharted 2 at the number one spot Demon's Souls at its rear... probably preparing to stab U2 through the back.

#15 Posted by Seppli (10250 posts) -

It's easier for me due to prior knowledge and the whole bonfire deal makes everything way better balanced and banking souls in level-ups supereasy. I'm just slowly expanding my comfort zone and my character's survivability.

#16 Posted by McShank (1630 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

The limited spell use isn't really that much of a problem, at least for magic based classes.
Also, the fact that the Flasks heal you so much and that they're refilled when you sit at a bonfire is a pretty nice replacement for the herbs.
Enemies you can't kill? Those don't exist, as far as I know, and you definitely wouldn't have encountered any from where you are in the game. Are you talking about the ghosts? You can kill them by cursing them.

I actually think the targeting in Dark Souls is much, much worse than in Demon's. In the new game, when I lock onto an enemy, I can't switch to another enemy with the flick of the right analog stick. I'm actually locked onto one enemy and if I want to switch targets, I need to disable the lock, face the enemy I want to hit and lock again. I searched the options to see if I was missing anything, but I wasn't. This new system can be a real pain when you're playing a ranged build.

you can flick the stick to change targets, just they have to be close and still in your actual view (No side enemy lock on :( )

#17 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -
@McShank said: 

you can flick the stick to change targets, just they have to be close and still in your actual view (No side enemy lock on :( )

Even when they're real close, it's very inconsistent with when it decides to switch targets or not. Most of the time, it just stays locked on an enemy that I don't want it to be locked on. The times when I want to switch targets is when monsters are getting too close to me, so I try to switch to the enemy that's right in front of me in order to prioritize targets, but it just doesn't work. That combined with the fact that Soul Arrow aiming is totally fucked up makes for a difficult time as a Sorcerer.
#18 Posted by Management (596 posts) -

@Abyssfull: Are there more than one of those armored bulls? Because I have only played for maybe 3-4 hours now and I am a good deal past the first armored boar.

I haven't had any real problems with the game yet, except for that armored dude atop the tower right before the armored boar, I have yet to take him down, his strikes are to powerful and fast for me to do anything against him.

#19 Posted by FateOfNever (1855 posts) -

Enemies may be able to parry and backstab you, but they give tells when they do it. The rapier knights, for example, will parry and counter if they're holding their sword up and pointed right at you - so don't attack them when they do that. There are some other enemies later in the game that do that also, and it's very much the same deal, they'll hold their weapon out in front of them with their shield down at their side, just don't attack them during that time.

The skeletons in the graveyard CAN be killed, but you either need a blessed weapon (one can be found in a rather dangerous area of the game by a boss fight) or a specific item you can throw that disables their 'resurrection' ability; the sword is by far the better of the two options since the item is limited quantity and isn't really worth the souls it costs to buy enough to get through the graveyard to the catacombs (where there are even more skeletons.) It also sounds like you're not far enough in the game yet to really even be facing them at all.

The rats really aren't that bad, you just have to block them and don't let your poison meter go all the way up from getting hit. There are some enemies later on that are even worse and a single hit will put you about halfway to being poisoned.

The kick and jump stab are cumbersome, but not really needed most of the time. The kick is mostly just useful for when you're fighting an enemy that has his shield up most of the time (such as the spear soldiers) and I have yet to really find a time when the jump stab is actually that useful.

If you're having problems finding specific items or something, or vendors for items, the best thing I can suggest is to actually go explore. In Dark Souls there's basically a "if it looks like you can get there, you probably can, even if it feels like you're doing something you shouldn't be doing to get there." There are a lot of areas where you can make really weird jumps, or fall down weird places to get to special locations where you may find something you're looking for or may find an NPC that can help you out at some point, or you may find an awesome weapon there.

Another thing of note, there are a lot of rare pieces of equipment in the game that can help ease things up some. The best hint I can give without ruining anything is that there is something of a general rule - is it a "boss" and have a tail? Cut off the tail, something good will happen.

As for enemies following you, part of it has to do with if you can get out of range of them 'fast enough' otherwise you'll keep them on your tail. Some enemies also just don't stray very far from their locations. But odds are if you're stopping every now and then while running away from something, it'll stay on your trail. If you ever are in real big trouble with being chased though, find a bonfire; if you can sit down and rest at the bonfire all enemies will reset, meaning you'll get anything on you, off. The other option is - just kill everything you come across so long as its within your ability to do so, if it's not, you probably shouldn't be in that area or you need to learn how to fight that particular kind of enemy. With the metroidvania style world they have going on while also not putting up very many barriers, it's totally possible to end up in a location you just shouldn't be in yet because you can't handle the enemies there.

One thing I will mention though that you didn't (and I haven't even played Demon's Souls, so I don't know if this is nearly as bad in Demon's as it is in Dark though.) NPCs are way too easy to piss off accidentally, accidentally hit the attack button when too close or when trying to fight an enemy when near an NPC? Well, that NPC is out for your blood now. Want to make amends for it? Sure, it will only cost you tens of thousands of souls. I had to drop 46,000 souls because I accidentally hit the Black Smith in the Undead Parish when I canceled out of a menu without realizing it and hit right bumper to go to the next menu tab...and instead smacked him upside the face and got a beatdown for the mistake, and the only way to fix it was to pay off a priest.

The game is certainly tough, and there are certainly some areas or bosses that you have to watch out for. Entering a building? Watch out for an attack from just inside the building out of your line of sight. See some shiny items just sitting out in the open? Look around, something probably wants to kill you and is waiting for you to take the bait. Take things slow, there's no reason to go plowing through things; it's better to take twice as long to win a fight than it is to take half the time to almost kill a guy and then die just before sealing the deal. Just learn how the movements in the game work, how long it takes you to attack, how long it takes you to dodge, how long it takes an enemy to recover after blocking one of their attacks, learn the tells of the enemies, do all that and most of the enemies in the game are really pretty easy. Just don't get greedy.

#20 Posted by Chaser324 (6745 posts) -

Yeah, those rats...I can't believe I made it that far into the game without dying, beat a bull demon, escaped the dragon's fire breath, and then get poisoned and killed by some lowly sewer rats (twice!!).

Moderator
#21 Posted by Louise_Cypher (9 posts) -

@Abyssfull: I'll shorten your post.

They underpowered you while overpowering everything that's not you. So yes, they have made Dark Souls harder.

The only real change I have seen so far is that enemies have better combat awareness.

#22 Posted by Jimi (1126 posts) -

I completed demons souls NG+ on two seperate characters and I agree, this game is way harder. However these games come down to knowledge a lot of the time, like in the first demons souls finding the crescent falchion +1 made early game so much simpler. My friend sent me a link involving shooting the dragon's tail off with a bow and arrow, it gave me a 1 handed sword that has made the game much more manageable.

I cut the tail off the first gargoyle boss aswell, the axe it dropped was nothing on the sword I got earlier but is still kind of cool.

The best piece of advice I can give is to explore EVERYTHING. You have missed a merchant already, they only get harder to find later on. On the subject of not being able to kill early game enemies, if you don't pick a magic class those big knights and the bull can be a bitch to kill. It is possible with backstabs but I wouldn't recommend it.

One last thing, enemies can parry you now, so if they go into a funny stance that you are unsure of it's often best not to attack or just to kick them.

Stick with it, this game is incredible.

#23 Edited by TheHT (11820 posts) -

Hmm, besides the whole healing item thing and limited magic uses, my experience has been the total opposite. Combat feels a whole lot more natural, and the kick and jump attack allow for some more varied combos and options when dealing with different enemies. Though I should note that the kick for curved swords that I use is actually a horizontal slice into back-flip.

Enemies that can parry give you signs that they're in 'parry-mode' so you probably shouldn't attack (or move to a higher/lower plane before you do so they can't riposte). There's a merchant in Undead Burg that sells you the short bow.

I will concede that going into Dark Souls without playing Demon's Souls would be harder than it was going into Demon's Souls fresh, just because of the open world and the tough enemies that make it seem like you're not in the right area. At least in Demon's Souls with the separation of worlds from each other and in and of themselves (1-1, 1-2, etc.) makes finding your bearings almost a non-issue.

Oh, and also, those rats are pretty fucked up.

#24 Posted by granderojo (1793 posts) -

PC gamer here, I never played the first Souls game but man am I enjoying this game. The only thing I am sad about is that I don't have the time to invest in the game as much as I wish I could. Fucking school and work is killing my gaming time. When I do have the time I'm to exhausted to play the game.

#25 Posted by McShank (1630 posts) -

@FluxWaveZ said:

@McShank said:

you can flick the stick to change targets, just they have to be close and still in your actual view (No side enemy lock on :( )

Even when they're real close, it's very inconsistent with when it decides to switch targets or not. Most of the time, it just stays locked on an enemy that I don't want it to be locked on. The times when I want to switch targets is when monsters are getting too close to me, so I try to switch to the enemy that's right in front of me in order to prioritize targets, but it just doesn't work. That combined with the fact that Soul Arrow aiming is totally fucked up makes for a difficult time as a Sorcerer.

Ya, it doesnt always work for me but i am getting the hang of it, mostly because i just dont target things after the first one is dead :) And about the spells aiming.. well demon's wasnt that great and from what your saying, they havent improved much. It just sounds like my friend is gonna have one hell of a time being a pure caster as he has never played any souls's game before.. poor fool thinks he wont ever have to use a weapon.

#26 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -
@McShank said:

mostly because i just dont target things after the first one is dead :)

No, that's what I'm saying. I'm not talking about switching to targets when one of them is dead, I'm talking about switching targets when more than one is rushing at me. You probably play a melee class, so the problem isn't as pronounced, but it really is an issue when you're not playing that kind of class. 
 
@McShank said:

And about the spells aiming.. well demon's wasnt that great and from what your saying, they havent improved much.

Actually, Demon's Souls' Soul Arrow worked as intended 100% of the time and didn't have issues like the one in Dark Souls. I played a Pure Magic Build in both Souls games so I know that the new Souls Arrow has slight homing capabilities that weren't in Demon's Souls, as the OG Soul Arrow actually acted as an arrow, that makes the spell fly into a nearby wall instead of an enemy if they're too close. 
 
@McShank said:

It just sounds like my friend is gonna have one hell of a time being a pure caster as he has never played any souls's game before.. poor fool thinks he wont ever have to use a weapon.

I've never have had to use a weapon since I hit level 8-10. That's what the Sorcerer class is made for: to use magic, not weapons. The game devs weren't so stupid as to make Sorcerers who rely only on spells unplayable.
#27 Posted by Chop (1998 posts) -

I'm actually finding Dark Souls a shit load easier than Demon's. I mean, the bosses in Dark Souls are complete fucking jokes compared to Demon's Souls. The only boss I've had even a little bit of a trouble with was

#28 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4240 posts) -

Heh. I'm too busy right now with Daggerfall's funeral screen, but if I get a console I'll get this.

#29 Posted by MaddProdigy (1041 posts) -

Personally I think Demons/Dark Souls are the result of the pussification of games over the last 5-10 years. People finally got tired of the same pre packaged, scripted, "AAA" experiences and now are torturing their inner gamers lovingly. I have played neither game, but I enjoy hearing about them!

#30 Posted by TranceQuina (150 posts) -

Maybe it's only because I played a LOT of Demon's Souls, but I'm actually finding this one considerably easier. Some of the enemies and encounters themselves might be harder than most of what the first game had to offer, but as a whole it just isn't as *punishing* to me.

Bonfires and the Estus flask make all the difference to me. Dying simply isn't as frustrating with this new checkpoint system, so I can more easily keep a cool head and overcome them without feeling like I have to work my way back up to them. And I could be wrong, but I remember reinforcing equipment and shopping in general being a lot more expensive in Demon's Souls.

Plus, there don't seem to be any more of those fast-rolling dark knight things, which were my least favorite.

Far and away the worst things I've come across in Dark Souls are those damn toxic archers down in Blighttown and the ghosts in Londo Ruins, but apparently Blighttown is just not my concern at all yet and I have to learn how exactly to curse the ghosts.

#31 Posted by Sunjammer (926 posts) -

I lost 6000 souls to those rats. I quit the game then.

#32 Posted by Underwhelmed (46 posts) -

@Abyssfull: Alternatively if you want to be a cheapskate....

Most of the early game, shortcuts will open up that will allow you to get back to that first bonfire at Firelink shrine without too much trouble and that bonfire starts as kindled. Later on, it will be more of a hike so you might want to consider kindling yourself.

#33 Posted by Sammann31415 (67 posts) -

All I've gotta say about this:

Poisonous. Skeleton. Babies. WTF

#34 Posted by SteamPunkJin (1286 posts) -

To anyone having problems with rats I have one word for you: Spear - you can block and attack at once, so it makes that choke point a bit safer. Alternatively you can just back up and shoot them with arrows to pull them out one at a time - if the spear Hollow is left in place they will fall off the ledge when they run into the Hollow.

#35 Posted by Syndrom (368 posts) -

you can actually spot when an enemy is preparing to parry and riposte your attack, they take on a different position. Like the knights with the rapiers, hold their rapier in front of them directed at you, when they do this don't attack :p

#36 Posted by Shadow (4988 posts) -

I went through both playthroughs of Demon's Souls and I just got to Gravelord Nito (the grim reaper guy made entirely of skeletons). One word: FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCKKKKKKK

#37 Posted by Vashyron (225 posts) -

@FateOfNever said:

The skeletons in the graveyard CAN be killed, but you either need a blessed weapon (one can be found in a rather dangerous area of the game by a boss fight) or a specific item you can throw that disables their 'resurrection' ability; the sword is by far the better of the two options since the item is limited quantity and isn't really worth the souls it costs to buy enough to get through the graveyard to the catacombs (where there are even more skeletons.) It also sounds like you're not far enough in the game yet to really even be facing them at all.

Sort of. The skeletons in the graveyard stay dead, cause I've killed them several times with the drake sword and haven't seen them come back. Now, the skeletons in the catacombs do need to be killed with a weapon that does magic damage if you want to make real progress. You can get by without one, but it requires you to hunt down the mages that are rezzing them and really...just have a weapon that does magic damage.

@Abyssfull: If you hate rats, wait till you fight Frogs.

#38 Posted by Yummylee (22577 posts) -

Oh wow, this thing is still getting comments?? Well I'm grateful for all the replies and hints people are leaving here, but I have to point out that this blog is over a week old now :P I've long triumphed over the ''growing pains'' as I adjusted to Dark Souls--and even though I still stand by my affirmation that Dark Souls is still decidedly more difficult than Demon's Souls (it has been for me, anywhoo; I''ve gotten up to facing the ''Lord'' Demons so I'd say I've gotten far enough to better solidify that assertion, too) I'm plenty at ease with a lot of the initial struggles I had. What did surprise me, however, is how surprisingly easy a lot of the boss battles were, most of which I managed to get done on my first attempt. The sub-bosses are what's been causing some of the past aggravation, and stuff like the Tomb of Giants left my eyes melting into steam.

But like I said, I've only now got all of the Lord demons to contend with - oh and a whole load of weapons to upgrade that I can't help but impulsively scrounge around and grind for the materials to do so... been looking for a titanite slab to finish off my Lightning Man-Serpent Great Blade for ages now. I know they drop from those Skeletal Warriors in the ruins below Firelink (and the Paladin Knights in Anor, too), but I just haven't had any luck thus far.

#39 Posted by CaLe (4056 posts) -

I can't beat the binding of Isaac and I beat Dark Souls with ease. Saying it's hard is overrated.

#40 Posted by James5955 (70 posts) -

Myself I find Dark Souls to be easier than Demon Souls.. This game isn't difficult at all, it's just about being prepared and being stubborn. Most of the spots in this game that I've found most difficult are just navigating through the map, like exploring Giants Tomb before you have the lantern, and crossing the invisible bridges in the Crystal Cave. I got irritated and turned the system off not long ago after saying to myself "really? the most difficult part of this game so far is going to be crossing a stupid invisible bridge?".

#41 Posted by bkbroiler (1642 posts) -

Never played Demon's Souls but I don't find Dark Souls particularly hard... Just unforgiving and unrestricting. I find it very fun and refreshing. I've died a ton, but the bonfires are quite nice and I think their refillable nature along with the spells present some interesting choices.

#42 Edited by Kazzurak (366 posts) -

the kick and jumping attack isnt hard to pull off in my experience u just have to Flick forward + R1 / R2 instead of Flick forward --> R1 / R2 if you understand what i mean but its alot worse if u just gotta close a 1 step gap between u and the oppenent if youre using a long ranged weapon and you start kicking instead of attacking

EDIT: i didnt have trouble in Demon's Souls with lack of healing items so i never bothered to farm it but i think what theyre trying to do in Dark Souls is force you to learn enemy patterns instead of stacking healing items fx if you can take all the enemies without being hit you wont have to use a healing item instead of pulling yourself through an area spamming healing items, in general it is to make you get better at the game instead of saying "lucky i got that done, heal up and move forward" so if you need flasks for a boss you gotta learn patterns for enemies

#43 Posted by MrXakaRebel (58 posts) -

Here's my 2 cents: Most of you are very early in the game. It gets harder. I'm trying to decide whether I should fight Sif (the giant sword wielding wolf in Darkroot Basin, Garden, whatever) and heading into Sen's fortress. I feel that the controls are better than Demon's Souls. And as far as the animation i think it's just more realistic. You can def still roll around but your just not gonna be "sonic rolling" across the level. The targeting was a little tricky at first but once i started to "flick the stick" with some authority I havent had a problem since. The best strategy for when you hit a wall in the games difficulty is to either summon other players into your game to help you or lay your summon sign down to run wingman for someone else. 9 out of 10 times you get paired with someone who knows where their going and can show you a bit about how you should be handling things, also you get to keep your souls when you die in someone else's game so its a great way to level up or get souls toward upgrading weapons, armor or buying anything you may need to proceed. Also I the skeletons in the graveyard are tough at first, but i didn't need a blessed weapon to kill them, if they're still getting up your not done killing them lol. You can just pull a suicide run to get the good items in that graveyard and once you do that there's no real reason for you to head to that graveyard again. And my last point, lol, the rats, they're nothing, they in my eyes are good practice for the enemies in the game that you should just not give a chance to hit you (which there are many), if your at a level where they are still a serious threat you should do some farming, some of the enemies just around the corner are much more difficult. Wait til you head into the depths where the curse giving frogs reside lol (the curse kills you instantly and cuts your life bar in half until you cure it, and if they get you again before you cure it, cuts it in half again). With all that said this is definitely in my top 5 games of the year. FYI Arkham City, Skyrim, or Uncharted 3 will probably be my game of the year.

Online
#44 Posted by jkz (4061 posts) -

@bkbroiler said:

Never played Demon's Souls but I don't find Dark Souls particularly hard... Just unforgiving and unrestricting. I find it very fun and refreshing. I've died a ton, but the bonfires are quite nice and I think their refillable nature along with the spells present some interesting choices.

This is where I'm at too. I've rung both bells, and I've beaten the Stray Demon and got Sif down to a sliver of health before I dropped my controller and he killed me, and those two were by far the hardest parts of the game to this point, for me. Blighttown was annoying, with its shitty frame-rate and stupid lighting, but it was pretty manageable once I put on the right gear. Other than that, though, I haven't had much of a problem at all. I do LOVE this game though, and it inspired me to go back and order Demon's Souls. I just think that its difficulty is overstated. Once you learn to speak the game's language - the way enemies telegraph their attacks / ripostes, the way the environment directs you to both main and optional goals - it really just comes down to patience. Sure, the first time you enter an area, you're going to die a couple times, but once you get down that area's enemies and its environmental cues, it becomes pretty easy to blaze right through it.

I do realise that there is some shit in store for me (Smough and Ornstein are sure to be a pain in the ass, from what I've heard), but in all, I've found the game to be pretty easily manageable, overall.

#45 Posted by bkbroiler (1642 posts) -

@jukezypoo said:

@bkbroiler said:

Never played Demon's Souls but I don't find Dark Souls particularly hard... Just unforgiving and unrestricting. I find it very fun and refreshing. I've died a ton, but the bonfires are quite nice and I think their refillable nature along with the spells present some interesting choices.

This is where I'm at too. I've rung both bells, and I've beaten the Stray Demon and got Sif down to a sliver of health before I dropped my controller and he killed me, and those two were by far the hardest parts of the game to this point, for me. Blighttown was annoying, with its shitty frame-rate and stupid lighting, but it was pretty manageable once I put on the right gear. Other than that, though, I haven't had much of a problem at all. I do LOVE this game though, and it inspired me to go back and order Demon's Souls. I just think that its difficulty is overstated. Once you learn to speak the game's language - the way enemies telegraph their attacks / ripostes, the way the environment directs you to both main and optional goals - it really just comes down to patience. Sure, the first time you enter an area, you're going to die a couple times, but once you get down that area's enemies and its environmental cues, it becomes pretty easy to blaze right through it.

I do realise that there is some shit in store for me (Smough and Ornstein are sure to be a pain in the ass, from what I've heard), but in all, I've found the game to be pretty easily manageable, overall.

I meant to say "estus flask" up there somewhere.

I've only gotten up to Anor L.... something? Can't remember exactly what that one is called. But I love the environments. Sen's Fortress was one of my favorite places so far. The only area I didn't really like was Blighttown, for the reasons you said above.

I've only really had to take two or three tries at every boss. First try I always go in super prepared and end up dying. Second or third time I usually summon someone and it's not too bad (almost feels a little cheap, but hey, it's in there!). Gargoyles gave me a really hard time, but my weapons were really underpowered and I didn't now about summoning.

#46 Posted by bigmistake (2 posts) -

@kingzetta said:

Saint's Row 3 is going to have to be pretty fucking awesome to steal the game of the year award away from Dark Souls for me.

lol, this made me giggle... really? Saint's Row 3 isn't even a contender >< sorry, fact.

#47 Posted by kingzetta (4307 posts) -
@bigmistake said:

@kingzetta said:

Saint's Row 3 is going to have to be pretty fucking awesome to steal the game of the year award away from Dark Souls for me.

lol, this made me giggle... really? Saint's Row 3 isn't even a contender >< sorry, fact.

yes, yes it is. If you don't think so, you can go eat shit.
#48 Posted by shamroll (145 posts) -

I just rang the first bell and it took forever to get the feeling of the game. I took 3 characters through the Undead Asylum to figure out which one would fit me best.

I went with the Cleric. The extra 5 heals at the start of the game makes a big difference. Use the heal spell in between battles leave a lot of Flasks for in-fight use. I might be completely wrong and screwing EVERYTHING up for myself in the future but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

#49 Posted by Rheinmetall (153 posts) -

Great story and read! Same here, I was Royalty class in Demon's Souls and when I learnt the ropes of it, the whole playthrough was a breeze, with soul arrows and Claws. But here...things are different, almost "satanic" I could say. lol

There is also another big and fundamental for our survival in the game difference between the two titles: The timing of dodge. in Demon's Souls you dodge early, in Dark Souls you dodge at the last millisecond. Try to always have this in mind.

#50 Posted by MrPilkington (722 posts) -

I just finished Dark Souls recently and I loved it so much. I never finished Demon's Souls, because of a late game mistake I did that caused me to kind of botch the game for me at the final boss. With that said though, Dark Souls was much hardier and much broader and, well, just a better game as well. So I feel I can call myself a "Souls" fan, after withering the dark depths of the game.

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