Elephant in the room

#2 Posted by Dany (7887 posts) -

I feel like there is no real impetus for these games to change. They are different and unique and people like that. Being the elephant in the room is why so many people like it.

#3 Posted by Commisar123 (1791 posts) -

I think it is going to continue to be a niche game that appeals to gamers of a certain bent. I don't particularly care for Dark Souls, so I actually don't want it to really impact games at all. I'm also not sure if I would describe it as the elephant in the room, as that implies people are deliberately ignoring it. I think most people ignore it because they don't like it or don't know anything about it.

#4 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@idoublespy said:

There is plenty to say when talking about Dark Souls. At it's very core, the game does not reinvent the genre in anyway; but it doe's do everything much smoother then it's competition. For the most part, I love the idea that this "series" is going to remain the elephant in the room, but is there a chance that will change? It has been a long time since Resident Evil 4, but it turned the Third-person shooter genre on its head in a good way for the most part..

How do you feel about the future of this genre?

Re invent? There are hardly any games that are so hard and so rewarding.  
 
@Dany said:

I feel like there is no real impetus for these games to change. They are different and unique and people like that. Being the elephant in the room is why so many people like it.

Damn right. I am happy the soul games are here. And its the last game I REALLY got into. I had a week off from work and most of the time I was awake I played this game. That only happened back when Fallout 3 first came out. I want more of Souls and want it now. 
#6 Posted by Commisar123 (1791 posts) -

@idoublespy said:

@Commisar123: It's of course subjective, but I was referring to the elephant being Dark Souls because if you look at games like Monster Hunter; the reward comes from countless hours of grinding and out dating design decisions from Japanese developers.

I suppose I meant to ask if you think this game will make Japanese developers rethink their design approach.

As to that I'm thinking no. Considering its sales numbers in Japan, and the fact that between Xbox and PS3 it barely broke a million world wide, it doesn't seem very likely especially with games like Monster Hunter selling so well.

#7 Posted by laserbolts (5317 posts) -

I thought people were crazy when they praised this game but after putting about 15 hours in I now understand why. This is one of the best games I have played in years even though I suck at it. I'm stuck in the depths because those frog fuckers keep cursing me. Killing the Capra demon is among the most satisfying gaming things I have ever done.

#8 Posted by addictedtopinescent (3645 posts) -

I doubt any game as demanding/challenging as dark souls will ever be more then a niche game in today's market, no matter how good it is. Unless the industry as a whole changes drastically. @Commisar123: I do think some people are deliberately avoiding/ignoring it, sure it isn't as popular as something like MW3 or Uncharted but I bet there's a good ammount of people who know about it and are reluctant of getting into it (I'm kinda one of them).

As for the future, I think this series should stick to being a niche kind of game. The things that make it ``the elephant in the room`` are the things that make it worth playing.

#9 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@laserbolts said:
I thought people were crazy when they praised this game but after putting about 15 hours in I now understand why. This is one of the best games I have played in years even though I suck at it. I'm stuck in the depths because those frog fuckers keep cursing me. Killing the Capra demon is among the most satisfying gaming things I have ever done.
Want advice about the frogs? 
#10 Posted by laserbolts (5317 posts) -
@The_Laughing_Man
@laserbolts said:
I thought people were crazy when they praised this game but after putting about 15 hours in I now understand why. This is one of the best games I have played in years even though I suck at it. I'm stuck in the depths because those frog fuckers keep cursing me. Killing the Capra demon is among the most satisfying gaming things I have ever done.
Want advice about the frogs? 
Sure but if it's use more skill then I'm sorry but I have no more. I've farmed about 40k souls buying the item to dr year and it's driving me nuts.
#11 Posted by laserbolts (5317 posts) -
@laserbolts Not dr year decurse I dunno why that happened.
#12 Posted by SpencerTucksen (423 posts) -
@Dany said:

I feel like there is no real impetus for these games to change. They are different and unique and people like that. Being the elephant in the room is why so many people like it.

Exactly. And the combat is so damn smooth. You can almost never blame your deaths on something wrong with the game. it's always on you, and I love that.
#13 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@laserbolts said:

@The_Laughing_Man

@laserbolts said:
I thought people were crazy when they praised this game but after putting about 15 hours in I now understand why. This is one of the best games I have played in years even though I suck at it. I'm stuck in the depths because those frog fuckers keep cursing me. Killing the Capra demon is among the most satisfying gaming things I have ever done.
Want advice about the frogs? 
Sure but if it's use more skill then I'm sorry but I have no more. I've farmed about 40k souls buying the item to dr year and it's driving me nuts.
The way to get out of the depths only has ONE frog. Other wise its more of a side path. Have you found the merchant down there? The one you have to fight just run up and beat him silly.  
 
If you have found the merchant then you are right at the boss ( who is a push over0  
 
Have you found the bonfire? 
#14 Posted by laserbolts (5317 posts) -
@The_Laughing_Man Yeah i found the bonfire but I keep falling down the holes in the maze and it fucks me over. I end up with like four of em surrounding me and the gas the shut out of me. I though I had to go down the holes but I guess not.
#15 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@laserbolts said:
@The_Laughing_Man Yeah i found the bonfire but I keep falling down the holes in the maze and it fucks me over. I end up with like four of em surrounding me and the gas the shut out of me. I though I had to go down the holes but I guess not.
Do not go that way. Leave the room and go down the steps. You should have to go down a ladder. You will be in a kinda hall way. You should see a broken gate ahead of you. Right before that on the right should be a door way with a rat. Though there is the boss 
 
However there will be a channeler that powers up that boss. However that boss is kinda easy and its REAL easy to find summons for him. (hoping your the right level) Yes there is a lot to explore but it sounds like you might need a higher levle 
#16 Posted by overjoyedpants (75 posts) -

what dark souls really does in a unique way is the way it handles online play, both pvp and coop. i would love the message system in this game to apper in other games of all genres.

#17 Posted by laserbolts (5317 posts) -
@The_Laughing_Man K I'll check it out. Thanks for the help and wish me luck.
#18 Posted by punpun (232 posts) -
@idoublespy said:

@Commisar123: It's of course subjective, but I was referring to the elephant being Dark Souls because if you look at games like Monster Hunter; the reward comes from countless hours of grinding and out dating design decisions from Japanese developers.

I suppose I meant to ask if you think this game will make Japanese developers rethink their design approach.

In Monster Hunter, the reward comes from smashing a big thing in the face with an oversized hammer, knocking it unconscious, and then continuing to smash it in the face with an oversized hammer.
#19 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@laserbolts said:

@The_Laughing_Man K I'll check it out. Thanks for the help and wish me luck.

The boss is quite easy. If you need help go to the real giant bomb page. Kessler did a guide on how to beat em. Send me a PM if you got more issues. Im thinking about replaying the game. 
#20 Posted by BaneFireLord (2922 posts) -

The only thing I feel that Dark Souls does better than any other game is the sense of elation it creates after beating a boss. Even though I can't say I'm a fan, that feeling when I destroyed the Taurus Demon in two hits after being killed seven times has no peer. However, the road to get to that payoff is far too long and grueling for it to ever break out of a niche market.

#21 Posted by huntad (1931 posts) -

I'd be glad if they switched it back to the level structure found in Demon's Souls. I found it very straightforward and rewarding every time I cleared out 1-1 and then had to move onto 1-2. I think moving to a more open environment was probably the next logical step, but it put me off almost right off the bat. It felt like a nostalgic throwback sort of experience in Demon's Souls whereas I felt like I was running around aimlessly in Dark Souls, and at times hitting walls and having to backtrack.

I don't really mind as I just won't play the next game in the series if it continues down the open-world road.

#22 Posted by Akeldama (4244 posts) -

@huntad said:

I'd be glad if they switched it back to the level structure found in Demon's Souls. I found it very straightforward and rewarding every time I cleared out 1-1 and then had to move onto 1-2. I think moving to a more open environment was probably the next logical step, but it put me off almost right off the bat. It felt like a nostalgic throwback sort of experience in Demon's Souls whereas I felt like I was running around aimlessly in Dark Souls, and at times hitting walls and having to backtrack.

I don't really mind as I just won't play the next game in the series if it continues down the open-world road.

You and I could not be further opposites on this subject.

#23 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

The game's not horrible, but anybody who says every death is the player's fault is full of shit. There are many cheap deaths to be had in this game, and they come mostly from the shitty camera and AI clipping issues.

#24 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@PrivateIronTFU said:

The game's not horrible, but anybody who says every death is the player's fault is full of shit. There are many cheap deaths to be had in this game, and they come mostly from the shitty camera and AI clipping issues.

The only PLAYER fault death is in PVP when the OTHER play has shit internet and gets backstabs when you are face to face. 
#25 Edited by CaptainCody (1505 posts) -

I think this whole thread is a bunch of subjective discussion, but at its heart, we should just settle for the comforting fact that we are now at a time where video games can be so vast that calling something original is nigh impossible. Be happy that we can have such disparity among video games and a future with hopefully more crazy shit. People can always say, " Oh, it's more of this?" when "more of this" is essentially something we get to do every so often, video games with a clear routing of sequels just means better planning towards when you want to take a vacation to Soulsville or Raccoon City.

@huntad said:

I'd be glad if they switched it back to the level structure found in Demon's Souls. I found it very straightforward and rewarding every time I cleared out 1-1 and then had to move onto 1-2. I think moving to a more open environment was probably the next logical step, but it put me off almost right off the bat. It felt like a nostalgic throwback sort of experience in Demon's Souls whereas I felt like I was running around aimlessly in Dark Souls, and at times hitting walls and having to backtrack.

I don't really mind as I just won't play the next game in the series if it continues down the open-world road.

As for this, I agree wholeheartedly. At the time, when first playing Dark Souls, I completely forgot that in its predecessor (that I never played) it totally had a hub and levels extending from it. I probably would have enjoyed Dark Souls if it wasn't for the open world, key phrase, "would have enjoyed."

#26 Edited by AndyD74 (169 posts) -

@laserbolts said:

@The_Laughing_Man Yeah i found the bonfire but I keep falling down the holes in the maze and it fucks me over. I end up with like four of em surrounding me and the gas the shut out of me. I though I had to go down the holes but I guess not.

If you are on PS3, what level are you? I have a character at level 18 and I can walk you through it if you summon me.

#27 Posted by laserbolts (5317 posts) -
@AndyD74

@laserbolts said:

@The_Laughing_Man Yeah i found the bonfire but I keep falling down the holes in the maze and it fucks me over. I end up with like four of em surrounding me and the gas the shut out of me. I though I had to go down the holes but I guess not.

If you are on PS3, what level are you? I have a character at level 18 and I can walk you through it if you summon me.

Thanks dude but I figured it out. I just killed the gaping dragon which was retarded easy and am now on my way to blight town.
#28 Posted by amir90 (2154 posts) -

I think there are certain things that can be changed, without losing its appeal.

#29 Posted by jozzy (2042 posts) -

@idoublespy said:

@Commisar123: It's of course subjective, but I was referring to the elephant being Dark Souls because if you look at games like Monster Hunter; the reward comes from countless hours of grinding and out dating design decisions from Japanese developers.

I suppose I meant to ask if you think this game will make Japanese developers rethink their design approach.

Are you saying Dark Souls has countless hours of grinding or just Monster Hunter? There is no point in Dark Souls where you need to grind, it just makes some stuff a little easier.

#30 Posted by Icemael (6316 posts) -

The future of what genre? 3D action? (Because make no mistake: Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are above all action games.)

3D action is doing fine. We got Bayonetta back in 2010, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance is probably coming out this year, and Devil's Third is coming next year.

#31 Posted by OtherworldOdd (21 posts) -

Hell, I know the way to make a game like this popular. Put the Elder Scrolls name on it. Then you'll have fanboys from all over clamoring about it and explaining how Elder Scrolls is so revolutionary in it's gameplay.

#32 Posted by MysteriousFawx (382 posts) -

@idoublespy: @idoublespy: @Commisar123:

If you got the limited edition of the game and watched behind the scenes stuff, the developers talk about why they make the Souls games. It basically comes down to them wanting to make games they enjoy, by doing so, they stay invested in the project and dont stop until they are totally satisfied. I'd feel its pretty safe to say the series isnt going to disappear nor will it ever really shift its focus. It all comes down to how much the studio will invest into producing it before it slows or takes a break due to burnout.

Needless to say, Souls games are in the right hands and won't be fucked with, they've made too much of a name for themselves to do some dramatic overhaul or switch now.

#33 Posted by benspyda (2033 posts) -

The difficulty is definitely what the souls games are known for but I feel the combat in the game is innovative in the way it is deep but not overwhelming. It's deep but not overly daunting like a devil may cry style because it is a lot slower and methodical. I really enjoyed the fact you could get through an area without getting touched once you mastered the combat. But I could never master the combat of devil may cry or a fighting game because I just couldn't react fast enough.

Like Dave mentioned on one of the bombcasts, if they took Dark Souls combat and Skyrim's everything else, it would be an amazing game. Perhaps adding a hint of its Dark/ Horror Fantasy atmosphere to the mix.

#34 Posted by Commisar123 (1791 posts) -

@MysteriousFawx said:

@idoublespy: @idoublespy: @Commisar123:

If you got the limited edition of the game and watched behind the scenes stuff, the developers talk about why they make the Souls games. It basically comes down to them wanting to make games they enjoy, by doing so, they stay invested in the project and dont stop until they are totally satisfied. I'd feel its pretty safe to say the series isnt going to disappear nor will it ever really shift its focus. It all comes down to how much the studio will invest into producing it before it slows or takes a break due to burnout.

Needless to say, Souls games are in the right hands and won't be fucked with, they've made too much of a name for themselves to do some dramatic overhaul or switch now.

To clarify, I don't have anything against the games, I just think that is appeals to a small group of people that does not include me.

#35 Posted by Robot_Sneakers (418 posts) -

I dont't think they should change anything, keep to the craziness and addicting rewarding games, I didn't get bored of Dark souls at all and I don't believe they'll burnout but if they improve things sure that's great. Personally, I wish they would change the heavy weapons, I like axes and all but whether I could barely hold one or I was incredibly strong the swing was still so slow and I wish it would be affected by your strength.

But I don't think they need to do much in the way of innovation, it's difficult but usually not impossible. And it feels rewarding without patting you on the back, and that's awesome.

#37 Edited by YI_Orange (1142 posts) -

@idoublespy: I doubt it. The people who are way into the souls games(I'm one of them) are crazy people. They are the most frustrating games I have ever played but for some reason I still love them. I doubt that style of game will ever catch on in a mainstream way.

That said. I wish a new souls game would come out tomorrow. I want more!

#39 Posted by YI_Orange (1142 posts) -

@idoublespy: I wouldn't go that far. There have been a lot of fantastic games coming out. The souls series is certainly unique and among my favorites, but in no way do they make me look back negatively on other games. The challenge is nice, but a lot of the times I like for games to be just challenging enough to still be fun, but not too challenging where I'm prevented from moving the story forward or have to grind or something.

#40 Posted by Jeffsekai (7027 posts) -

@SpencerTucksen said:

@Dany said:

I feel like there is no real impetus for these games to change. They are different and unique and people like that. Being the elephant in the room is why so many people like it.

Exactly. And the combat is so damn smooth. You can almost never blame your deaths on something wrong with the game. it's always on you, and I love that.

Did myself and my friend play the same Dark Souls as everyone else? I can't count how many times I died because the game fucked up and the camera got stuck on something and instead of rolling back I rolled forward or off a cliff. The game is great and I enjoy the combat/feel of the world much more than Skyrim but you people need to stop acting like the game is perfect. Saying every single death is just Dark Souls being Dark Souls is stupid, and just because it's Dark Souls doesn't excuse shitty bugs and glitches.

#41 Posted by AndyD74 (169 posts) -

Yeah, there are times when it's not really your fault for dying. The walkway to the painted world building in Anor Londo scares me, because as you walk through the arches on that small ramp, the camera shifts and can make you walk off to your doom if you're not careful. I also hate it when you have an enemy targeted and as soon as you go to attack, it switches to a different enemy and you miss, then the previous enemy beats the crap out of you.

#42 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@laserbolts said:
@AndyD74

@laserbolts said:

@The_Laughing_Man Yeah i found the bonfire but I keep falling down the holes in the maze and it fucks me over. I end up with like four of em surrounding me and the gas the shut out of me. I though I had to go down the holes but I guess not.

If you are on PS3, what level are you? I have a character at level 18 and I can walk you through it if you summon me.

Thanks dude but I figured it out. I just killed the gaping dragon which was retarded easy and am now on my way to blight town.
There ya go. Told you hes super easy. What system ARE you on. If its 360 I can help ya when your higher soul leve

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