Is Dark Souls going to be delisted from Steam soon?

#1 Posted by ShadowSkill11 (1783 posts) -

GFWL is about to die and From Software has publicly stated and shown their ineptitude with PC games. They haven't announced any plans to covert Dark Souls over to Steamworks like other GFWL games like Batman or BioShock 2. Valve has no problems with desisting games that no longer work as advertised. Basically the multiplayer and achievements would be removed and the game might not start at all when GFWL stops working. Wouldn't this cause Valve to remove Dark Souls from their store?

#2 Posted by Demoskinos (14561 posts) -
#3 Posted by Three0neFive (2286 posts) -

Dark Souls is pretty much From/Namco Bandai's most successful property here in the west, I doubt they'd let it die so easily.

#4 Posted by AMyggen (2532 posts) -

I don't think we've heard anything for certain yet. But yeah, if they don't do anything, Valve will probably delist it.

#5 Posted by TrafalgarLaw (1036 posts) -

I guess this is a lesson for PC port petitioners.

Always specify to want a good PC version, not a simple port. Throw some boycot threats in it too.

#6 Posted by TournamentOfHate (386 posts) -

Not to derail from Dark Souls but does anybody know what's going to happen with Iron Brigade? I just bought it a little while ago and not sure if it'll be around after GFWL goes away.

#7 Edited by ThunderSlash (1545 posts) -

Not to derail from Dark Souls but does anybody know what's going to happen with Iron Brigade? I just bought it a little while ago and not sure if it'll be around after GFWL goes away.

Should probably ask @mrmooear about that. Hey Brad Muir! You listening?!

#8 Posted by Sterling (2067 posts) -

I am sure From/namco will find a way to keep it online. I mean Demons's Souls servers are still online because people still play. They said they were going to take that down two years ago. But then said they would keep it up as long as the numbers were there. And you know more people are playing Dark Souls than Demon's Souls.

#9 Posted by RonGalaxy (2868 posts) -

And this is why I am not looking forward to an all digital future.

#10 Posted by Ezekiel (370 posts) -

I guess this is a lesson for PC port petitioners.

Always specify to want a good PC version, not a simple port. Throw some boycot threats in it too.

The petition reads: "Steamworks could provide a strong and easy to use online infrastructure."

http://petitionbureau.org/DarkSoulsForPC

#11 Posted by Quid_Pro_Bono (235 posts) -

@naru_joe93: I think even a disc game that had this sort of online infrastructure wouldn't run properly without the infrastructure. The only people to blame here are really Microsoft for putting this service out to pasture.

#12 Posted by Lego_My_Eggo (981 posts) -

@sterling: Demon's Souls servers are run and paid for by ATLUS since they published it in the US, so they are paying the bills to keep the servers up not From or Namco. Dark Souls is in a different situation because From Software would actually have to put some dev time into updating the game to run without GFWL and maybe add another form of DRM, which they might not be willing to do.

#13 Posted by RonGalaxy (2868 posts) -

@naru_joe93: I think even a disc game that had this sort of online infrastructure wouldn't run properly without the infrastructure. The only people to blame here are really Microsoft for putting this service out to pasture.

Yeah, but this goes even further and makes it so you cant even play single player games that used the service and aren't getting an update. Things that require servers/internet all have an expiration date (unless someone with the right kind of skills can crack it); this is obvious. But what about single player games that don't require servers/internet? What happens when these restrictions are, inevitably, placed on those types of games? Imagine what would happen if Valve were to ever go under. All of those games would be gone, and it wouldn't be illegal under any circumstances since no one, technically, 'owned' them.

Also, I'm not against digital games, I own a decently sized steam library and purchase games on psn all of the time. It's just a way riskier endeavor if you think long term about your purchases. Once physical media is dead, someone needs to be put in charge of rights management on a governmental level to make sure people aren't screwed out of products they paid money for. People may find this ridiculous, but when billions of dollars are involved, it isn't a joke.

#14 Posted by crithon (3075 posts) -

Hmmmm depends, Batman Arkham City and Bioshock 2 were the biggest examples of how to remove GFW. Bioshock 2 was a simple update where it didn't load up the GFW UI and went in as normal. Batman Arkham City was a delisting but had a message to everyone "Hey Game of the Year Arkham City has steam works. If you bought it before you should see it in your games collection."

But like things like this almost happen around the last minute. I do wonder about EA and Bulletstorm, or even THQ games like Warhammer which went off to Sega.

#15 Posted by Sterling (2067 posts) -

@lego_my_eggo: I guess I was more thinking of the console versions. I can see them shutting the PC version down due to this however. Which is too bad. I just bought the PC version myself.

#16 Posted by TrafalgarLaw (1036 posts) -

@ezekiel said:

@trafalgarlaw said:

I guess this is a lesson for PC port petitioners.

Always specify to want a good PC version, not a simple port. Throw some boycot threats in it too.

The petition reads: "Steamworks could provide a strong and easy to use online infrastructure."

http://petitionbureau.org/DarkSoulsForPC

They should have said: avoid gfwl. But ultimately, this is Microsoft's dumb way of abandoning gfw without mandating games to be patched out of gfw.

#17 Edited by Demoskinos (14561 posts) -

I guess Dark Souls better.... Prepare to Die.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

#18 Posted by Sterling (2067 posts) -

I guess Dark Souls better.... Prepare to Die.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

#19 Posted by probablytuna (3533 posts) -
@sterling said:

@demoskinos said:

I guess Dark Souls better.... Prepare to Die.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

'YOU DEFEATED' won't be in Dark Souls II, I'm actually quite sad about this. It's way better than 'VICTORY ACHIEVED'.

#20 Posted by ShadowSkill11 (1783 posts) -

@naru_joe93: all digital future? What does this have to do with a digital versus a disc version of the game?

#21 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5218 posts) -

I guess Dark Souls better.... Prepare to Die.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

#22 Posted by TruthTellah (8519 posts) -

@sterling said:

@demoskinos said:

I guess Dark Souls better.... Prepare to Die.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

'YOU DEFEATED' won't be in Dark Souls II, I'm actually quite sad about this. It's way better than 'VICTORY ACHIEVED'.

On PC, there will probably be a "You Defeated" mod within a week. ;)

Online
#23 Posted by Capum15 (4808 posts) -

@probablytuna said:
@sterling said:

@demoskinos said:

I guess Dark Souls better.... Prepare to Die.

'YOU DEFEATED' won't be in Dark Souls II, I'm actually quite sad about this. It's way better than 'VICTORY ACHIEVED'.

On PC, there will probably be a "You Defeated" mod within a week. ;)

There damn well better be. Was the first mod I got after DSFix.

#24 Posted by Viking_Funeral (1731 posts) -

@tournamentofhate: From what I understand, Iron Brigade is a Microsoft game,and they have no plans to rescue any of their games from the GFWL graveyard. Sorry.

#25 Edited by Sammo21 (3211 posts) -

Honestly, even if Dark Souls online functionality is busted it is still perfectly fine offline so I don't see why they couldn't sell the game with a notification as long as the patching process removes any GFWL requirements.

#26 Posted by mosespippy (4031 posts) -

I thought they said they were patching out GFWL support sometime this summer and that it would break your old saves when it happens.

#27 Posted by noizy (654 posts) -

@mosespippy said:

I thought they said they were patching out GFWL support sometime this summer and that it would break your old saves when it happens.

There's gonna be ways to fix them I bet. My Batman Arkham City saves got broken, and managed to fix them with a hex editor.

#28 Posted by Cybertification (197 posts) -

I play the game offline, I don't see why it would be delisted.

#29 Posted by dudeglove (7684 posts) -

THANKS OBAMA

(I thought I heard steamworks was getting patched in?)

#30 Posted by Superfriend (1526 posts) -

@tournamentofhate: From what I understand, Iron Brigade is a Microsoft game,and they have no plans to rescue any of their games from the GFWL graveyard. Sorry.

Well, fuck Microsoft then.

Seriously, I bought a LOT of games on Steam that could no longer work because of this crap. Greedy bastards.

#31 Posted by ottoman673 (480 posts) -

This is one of those fine lines where I question the merit of things like third-party No-CD mods.. [I am NOT advocating piracy, but] there are fixes out there that remove the GFWL check from Dark Souls. These same things also exist in other games [I remember it being a huge issue with GTA IV where GFWL and Social Club never really got along] but are typically reserved for and used by pirates.

But suppose you purchased the game and then all of a sudden GFWL quits, and there's no support added. Is cracking okay in this instance, or am I supposed to just let my purchased game die due to a DRM service shutting down?

#32 Posted by RonGalaxy (2868 posts) -

@naru_joe93: all digital future? What does this have to do with a digital versus a disc version of the game?

Look at the second post on this thread. Click on the link. Look at all of the games in red that are also on consoles, on a disc. Those games aren't going to work anymore unless someone illegally cracks them. The disc versions on console will still work.

When physical media is dead and all we have is digital distribution, this is what we have to look forward to if someone doesn't straighten out digital rights management. As of now, when you buying something digital that's under some sort of DRM you do not own that piece of media, you are paying for temporary rights. If valve/steam were ever to go under, all of those games would be lost, and it wouldn't be illegal. I am not against digital distribution, but I think some things need to change if that will become the de facto delivery mechanism for media.

#33 Posted by TournamentOfHate (386 posts) -

@tournamentofhate: From what I understand, Iron Brigade is a Microsoft game,and they have no plans to rescue any of their games from the GFWL graveyard. Sorry.

Well that sucks. :( Guess I better play it before it's gone. Cheers.

#34 Edited by noizy (654 posts) -

@ottoman673 said:

This is one of those fine lines where I question the merit of things like third-party No-CD mods.. [I am NOT advocating piracy, but] there are fixes out there that remove the GFWL check from Dark Souls. These same things also exist in other games [I remember it being a huge issue with GTA IV where GFWL and Social Club never really got along] but are typically reserved for and used by pirates.

But suppose you purchased the game and then all of a sudden GFWL quits, and there's no support added. Is cracking okay in this instance, or am I supposed to just let my purchased game die due to a DRM service shutting down?

I'm in favour of saying that abandoned games become free game (no pun intended?). In a way, when a publisher is dropping support for their game, they are effectively admitting that there is no more profit to made. Even though the publisher is still legally the copyright owner of the software, their abandonment of the support means there seem little chance they would ever engage in legal action against people breaching those copyright. Look at abandonware sites. Although those are normally really old titles. It is worrying that games are getting abandoned with such speed these days.

I very much doubt they will abandon Dark Souls for PC as it is still active and valuable, even if it's only to sale it for cheap to rope people into Dark Souls II. But I guess that's me being hopeful.

#35 Edited by benspyda (2030 posts) -

I just got a GFWL achievement the other day in DS, Wisdom of a Sage, as like a swan song to the service.

I can just jump back to my PS3 characters I guess.

Wait! Has anyone told Jeff Green!

#36 Posted by CornBREDX (4790 posts) -

Even if Steam delists it (I feel sometimes like I'm talking about the stock exchange when it comes to Valve haha) you will still own and be able to play the game.

What is more concerning is what will happen to your character when they remove GFWL (I believe they confirmed it would be removed from Dark Souls but I don't know if that was true)?

The game will still be playable- it's completely playable offline- but you may lose that character you played through the game 5 times with. From Software would be fine with this as they want you to play the new one anyway =P

#37 Edited by noizy (654 posts) -

@cornbredx said:

What is more concerning is what will happen to your character when they remove GFWL (I believe they confirmed it would be removed from Dark Souls but I don't know if that was true)?

Here's my advice.

  1. Disable Steam auto-patching on Dark Souls.
  2. When Dark Souls asks you to patch, back up your saves.
  3. Update Dark Souls. If your saves are broken, look on the net for someone to tell you how to fix your saves.

My Batman saves were broken after it moved to Steamwork, and here is what I did to fix them. Hopefully, something similar will work. I presume removing whatever GFWL header on the save will suffice.

#38 Posted by CornBREDX (4790 posts) -

@noizy: good to know people have been finding ways to fix GFWL patching out.

I dont know if that will be the same as Batman, though, considering how Dark Souls online saves are attached to its online component so, presumably, if the GFWL servers are where the game is being handled I don't know if it would be able to use the saves still or not.

Like, right now, if I unplug my ethernet cable and boot up the game my saves don't even show up- for example. Probably still fixable but just feels different.

I do know the saves are stored locally so there's probably a switch somewhere that does it. I have save back ups as well- which is why I know the saves are local =P

#39 Edited by noizy (654 posts) -

@cornbredx: Hmmmm. We'll have to wait and see I guess. But you do have local saves. I tried disabling my internet, and booted up Dark Souls and I could play on my saves without being connected to the internet and thus GFWL.

I'm not sure why they don't ensure the saves don't work in the process, but I have a feeling they might want to avoid being dragged into promising they can and have people blame them if something goes wrong for some people.

#40 Posted by Belegorm (347 posts) -

Everyone I've heard talking about it have been pretty certain it's getting steamworks; also namco did say they're exploring options.

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