Patrick,

I recently sent you a request on Tumblr to talk about your time with Spelunky -- a sort of retrospective from your first impression, followed by dismissal, to coming back in to learn that the game is really about mastery, not just progression. This article definitely hits many of the points I was hoping to hear about in response to my inquiry, though I still think it would be a great opportunity to have perhaps a short podcast with the rest of the GB crew to discuss, not only the Souls games (as the majority of you have now partaken), but to help convey that same sense of mastery and accomplishment in the context of Spelunky as well. It seems like your understanding of Spelunky has not landed on the other GB guys in the same way, and it would be a shame to let the epiphany of your journey fade quietly away once the feature is finished.

Thanks again for a great article!

I agree completely. The game really opened up for me once I realized that leveling your character and weapons is almost entirely an exercise in increasing efficiency, not capability. It lets you become quicker at taking down enemies, but doesn't give you a significant advantage over them.

With the exception of equipment that lets you manage toxicity, nothing else really feels required to comfortably advance. Just, as @wikmalm says, learning from mistakes and balancing the dodge, the block, and the parry. Every enemy can still kill me in a handful of hits 30 hours in.

Actually, I will argue that post-patch it's a pretty easy game. That tree boss in particular is laughable.

I didn't play Dark Souls until mid-2012, but I didn't play using FAQs or walkthroughs, necessarily. I did indeed however, have one of my best friends there most of the time, who was very experienced with the game.

I have super fond memories of playing it back then with him being somewhat of a safety net. He let me figure stuff out on my own, but was there when I needed a push through some of the bullshit. Great times.

Great write up Patrick. There's a lot more you could say about the game from the story, game play mechanics or analysing and breaking down each level piece by piece. It really has a tonne of depth to it which is rather impressive given how so few games give us this much content within a small "footprint." I believe Jason Killingsworth of is also writing a fair bit on the game with Press Select actually.

But the point of the write up is that you "get it." Which, whether one likes the game or not, is the key to understanding what makes this game so special. The rainbow of emotions it provides is unparalleled and it really does remind one of why video games are great when they fully embrace the medium rather than trying to be something else.

Patrick one thing you should think about and potentially comment on is whether your perception of the game was affected by playing it for an audience.

On a certain level, I believe that knowing that you have people watching you and following your adventure and being invested in your accomplishments and defeats enhances the experience. You're not just playing a game, you're performing; and on some subconscious level I think a person's ego gets wrapped up in that and can cause you to have a more positive opinion of the game than if you were playing alone it like a typical user.

I suggest this based on personal experience. I mean even if I'm just hanging out with friends or at party playing Rock Band, having people watch me play (and with cheering me on and trash talk being equally effective) made the experience more enjoyable, and the game seem better as result.

This isn't to say I think Dark Souls doesn't deserve your praise, but just as a game reviewer must "check their privilege" with regard to getting games for free, I'd like to see some consideration of whether being famous (and I know you may not like that term, but it's apt, you have thousands of people following what you do) and playing for an audience altered the game experience.

Great Op-Ed piece Patrick!

I'd disagree that Dark Souls rewards you with mastery though. I'm a terrible Dark Souls player although I just went through the DLC for the first time on NG+++ last month. My friend was sitting watching asking why I wasn't equipping certain weapons, where my havel ring was (I never got one in the 3 playthroughs I've done), or why I wasn't doing backstabs nor doing the jump attacks. I didn't know there was a jump attack... I never really got the hang of backstabs, and I used a +5 BKGS for all of my playthroughs. I don't know the nuances enough to say I have mastery over the game, but I still say its my favorite game of the generation and that I had a rather easy time going through it, bar O&S and the DLC bosses.

ENOUGH WITH THE DARK SOULS, JESUS CHRIST.

[Although I've been lurking giantbomb for a while, Patrick's Dark Souls playthrough on twitch and the subsequent writeup became the reason for me to formally create an account … and post this meta comment.]

Watching miserable new players become ensorcelled with Dark Souls is far more fascinating than watching naked slim jim speed runners jam through Lordran. You can witness the learning process that you mention, as new players dynamically adapt and overcome the increasing challenges. It comes out as fumbling. You died, yes. Did you learn or earn something for it?

This same "learning" interest has pushed me to play the game through with radically different character build approaches: one heavy weapon/fat roll strength build, one magic build, one holy cleric/temple knight build, one dex dodge/fast roll build. The game was quite different each playthrough, different sections became easier or more difficult but still a flavorful challenge sandwich and a testament to great game design.

Regarding the evenness of the challenge, of the OP comments, there were times at the end of your Odessa run where you said after an initial boss challenge, "okay, this looks doable." But repeated attempts with these bosses still ended in quick defeat: Manus, Artorius, and Gwynn come to mind. But by that point you were obstinate in your course of action, and flexible enough that you were willing to try different tactics, which is the magic that fueled the win, all the way to the incandescent estus high of the credit roll.

---------

One last postnote (sorry for the long first post). Along with excellent lore, setting, style, gameplay, and along with the accomplishments, I also relish the abject failures of Dark Souls. Everyone has a different moment with this. Odessa was experiencing existential hell in the trap of the Painted World of Ariamus. My own underpowered Hagulphascom fell into deep malaise for long hours spent accidentally falling deeper and deeper into the Tomb of the Giants without lordvessel, unable to find the ladder back up. These failures actually have meaning in the game, they are the ongoing experience of a damned-to-resurrect soul, not an out-of-game dissonant jump back to save point. I look back fondly at these miseries, now blissfully avoidable on subsequent plays.

Maybe now @patrickklepek will also give Demon's Souls a chance. Seems to be that the crew finally decided to give that game a second chance. Good on @brad for not being closed minded about it.

Honestly all this Dark Souls talk makes me want to go back and play it again as I really did enjoy my first few times through..

Then I remember that I need Game for Windows Live and I seriously can't be arsed to deal with them again. Here's to hoping when it dies a flaming death that From Software gives Dark Souls steamworks or something usable.

I wasn't trying to downplay you when i was calling you OP because you deserve those extra levels by not dying as much and losing those souls. But holy crap, you have to admit that you have a lot of lucky runs! The stream was really fun though and this is a fun read!

Great article, Patrick.

Here are my thoughts:

First of all, it does feel good to beat a difficult game, especially when everyone else is running from it. When I beaten the original version of Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, I felt a sense of pride, especially since gamers were complaining so much about the difficulty, they had to release a watered down special edition with difficulty sliders. I remember when I faced Cerberus (the first level boss) for the first time and got my ass handed to me so badly, I almost gave up after the fourth try. But I didn't give up. It was then I learned about how I couldn't mash on the buttons like the previous games in the series, and actually had to use defense and tactics to win, and no only the boss battles, but the random encounters in later levels. Soon I required enough upgrade points to make myself a powerful enough Dante to make it through the game, even though it was still challenging.

Dark Souls is the same type of game. If you rush in button mashing, you'll get destroyed by random encounters, forget about the bosses. It takes patience, timing, and defense to win. The game punishes you for being too impatience. And little luck doesn't hurt as well.

But seriously, Patrick. You've beaten the latest version of the game. Each upgrade made things a little easier, unlike the original build. Still a great accomplishment, since Dark Souls is harder than the average modern game, but I'm saying this for the record.

Good article Patrick, but comparing the difficulty/mastery of games like Spelunky to the Souls games is just not valid. Spelunky is a game that you game that you can play for 15-30 minutes everyday, getting better and better with time, until you become a master of it. Dark Souls requires much more than just daily dedication. It is MUCH more complex in terms of mechanics and progression, and will probably require (as you stated) the use of FAQs or streams to help you along. This is much more extra time/work than the average person has/wants to spend on a game. Especially one who's big pay off is "hey, you're one of the few who did it!".

Meatboy and Spelunky are difficult games that you can pick up, play for a half hour, and have fun for that half hour while steadily improving at the game. The end game is not important or essential to the experience; you can have hours and hours of fun with these games without ever doing a Hell Run or making it to the final stages. Just playing and getting better is a good experience.

Dark Souls is fundamentally different. It requires much greater dedication and extra curricular work. You can pigeonhole yourself into a corner stats-wise, get lost for long periods, or miss whole sections if your just playing and aren't completely devoted. I'm a fan of the Souls games, but don't try to paint them as "overstated" or compare them to other games based on difficulty/learning curve. Dark Souls is a completely different animal to the average gamer. Don't forget that you are a serious hobbyist and someone who plays games for a living, and your experience will always reflect this.

Nice write up. I really enjoyed reading it. It comes off very passionate which is certainly surprising after you (and Jeff's) off handed comments about Dark Souls before.

Ya, Dark Souls is pretty great. Still my favorite game of "last gen" or the PS3 and 360 era.

If anyone hasn't, and wants to, Patricks youtube has his play through of it and it's a pretty fun watch.

After some inspiration from Vinny's LOLS and Brad playing Demon's Souls, I started playing Dark Souls last Friday. I've played about 20 hours so far, and within the first couple of hours I realized that it's not at all as difficult as I was lead to believe. It can be a little unfair and unforgiving at times, yes, but just suck it up. Forget the souls and learn from your mistakes. The trick is to master the game mechanics and be patient. When you get impatient, as you tend to do when you just want to retrieve your souls after dying, you will die to even the simplest enemies. Like with the Balder Knights early in the game. They're just a tiny bit stronger than the other enemies, but if you stress out, they'll riposte and one hit kill you.

As most people, I got my ass handed to me by the Taurus Demon a couple of times. But then I learned from my mistakes and beat him without losing any health on the next try. It was in fact incredibly easy when I knew what to do. I trained parrying and ripostes for a while and when I felt I had the hang of it, I beat that asshole Black Knight to a pulp, and all of his friends as well when I encountered them.

The game encourages you to change it up every now and then. Your sick and seemingly overpowered armor may be completely useless in an area because the enemies might inflict damage that it doesn't protect against, or it might be too heavy to give you the agility you need for the encounter.

I have a ways to go before I'm finished, but I don't just want to finish the game, I want to see everything, beat every boss, and get every item. Few games have that effect on me.

Dark Souls: probably the best €5.99 I've ever spent.

Dark Souls is such a fascinating game.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time or patience for it. In the time it'd take me to get good at Dark Souls and beat it, I could play through four other games that I enjoy right from the beginning. I guess I miss out on a level of satisfaction that I don't get from other games, but the frustration just isn't worth it for me. It's entirely a personal problem.

I'm glad it's getting the attention it deserves, and I hope I get to watch at least one of the bomb squad stream their adventures in Dark Souls 2.

@eternalgamer2: Spot on observations! The exploration, cloaked lore, and demanding engagement are what make Dark Souls so endearing, not the challenge for challenge's's's sake.

I don't want to start a pyromancy war here in the comments, but compare exposition (and voice acting diversity!) in Dark Souls with Skyrim. In Dark Souls you ache for more hints or insight and seek out lore in cryptic item descriptions or terse quips from NPCs. Skyrim dumps a heap of endlessly banal conversations on you which have the side effect of pinning quests to your UI, and you read through multiple tomes of almost pointless tales seeking knowledge. I don't want to harsh on Skyrim, it's great. Tom Bissell has a great Skyrim article on this very subject.

That first gif is just straight up video-game-orgasm right there.

@patrickklepek:

I don't suppose you remember that bombcast back from when you were trying out a bunch of different games such as Monster Hunter, and Jeff said something along the lines of "You know where this is going right? You're going to end up playing Dark Souls"

Anyway I'm really glad to see that you were able to play the game and enjoy it, I've started watching the youtube vids of your stream. It also spurred me on to finally go and beat the game, and start working towards playing the DLC (I'd left off playing the game right after Anor Londo since like 2 years ago). I can't get the internet on my console so I also enjoyed playing through the game without summons (didn't know about the AI summons).

Great to see you like Dark Souls!

Give Demon's a try! They made enough changes between the two that it would feel like a new experience and I actually enjoyed the stage aspect of that game. World Tendency was a cool idea.

I'm playing through Dark Souls for the first time right now as well, coming back to it after buying it sometime back on Steam and then hitting the usual couple hour in wall. I died a couple times to the Taurus Demon, lost what felt at the time like a crushing number of souls because I didn't realize I couldn't run back into the boss room to grab my souls and then run away, then said, "screw this, I don't have time." But like you, I think, and like many people, I eventually picked it back up because I had always intended to play more, and I kept hearing about more and more people getting over that hump.

So I came back on a whim, not really intending to dive fully into it, killed the Taurus Demon with less trouble than I anticipated, and from that point I was locked in. For me, seeing how the pieces of the world all fit together was what really did it. It reminds me in many ways of Ico, of all things. The story told through atmosphere and exploring the world more than cutscenes or even the item descriptions. And because you need to move through it with such a deliberate pace, it seems huge, a much denser and more intricate open world than something like a GTA city or Skyrim.

One thing I'm loving about this seemingly internet-wide re-discovery of Dark Souls is that I rarely get to play a game when it's current in the zeitgeist. I'm just too slow and too often wait to pick something up on a Steam sale.

But with Dark Souls, it seems like everyone who didn't play it the first time around is simultaneously having the realization that, hey, this game is not only playable, once you actually start to crack into it, it's incredible. So while I'm hardly in the first wave to play the game, playing it now feels somehow current. I'm not discovering it with the world for the first time, but I'm participating in this slow building wave of the world rediscovering it.

Dark and Demon's Souls isn't hard but punishing, there is no place for mistakes and the margin of error is so small it leaves almost no window for experimenting and learning. Once you learn an encounter though you find out that nothing requires incredible timing, reaction speed or patience, everything can be a walk in the park as a pyromancer, a sorcerer, a dexterity build or strenght build. New Games + will require more patience and avoidance to deal with the extra health, but nothing so difficult that it can only be done by muscle memory. I've died less playing Dark and Demon's Souls than in a single dark world level of Super Meat Boy.

Very interesting retrospective on your time with Dark Souls, Patrick. I'm glad you stuck through with it.

Yep I agree. I'm not super-great at games either and I muddled my way through Dark Souls when it came out. It's just a lot of spending time looking around and not being afraid to experiment. I made progress every time I played - more souls, buy a few shards, maybe a level, wander around and figure out the bird nest thing, die in a few areas to figure out I shouldn't be there yet, etc etc.

I missed some things. I did some things "The Wrong Way". My stats and equipment were far from optimized. I cheesed where I could and brute-forced some other areas. Still beat the game, saw most of it, got decent at backstabbing invaders. Good times.

I don't think that kind of playthrough would make for a great game live stream though. I'll check out the Kays Plays though and see.

Excellent read that definitely reflects my time with Dark Souls. I cannot wait for DS2.

Yup. It's a pretty good game. I don't think "those jerks" had a point though, at least not the point you brought up. You may not be able to reverse patch updates, but you can certainly go in without outside assistance similar to when the game first game out.

That someone might choose not to is nothing to get seriously peeved over. People play games differently, which is a fact that has no bearing on the individual's experience in a single player game. What bother is it if someone half-way around the world uses a FAQ for a video game that you didn't use a FAQ for, or approaches a boss fight with one weapon over another, or whatever other difference there could possibly be between your experiences? I'd call it childish, but then that wouldn't be giving kids enough credit.

That said, I'm sure the nature of those comments ranged from genuine fury to teasing. It sucks that the two are often indistinguishable through text alone, especially when coming from a stranger (or 500). Maybe it'd be better to just take everything that isn't obvious rage as ribbing, and then bask in the sheer ridiculousness of the rest.

@likeassur: ...it's not like much else is going on right now, is there? Nothing exciting is hitting the new consoles for months, and the Souls games have proved to be an enduring success, with a highly anticipated sequel releasing next month. Maybe try chilling the fuck out?

Thoughts about the ending

The only time I strenuously followed a guide was to save Solaire, and I'm glad I did; gloriously incandescent bastard made the fight with Gwyn damn near poetic. I spent most of the fight messing up parries and getting grabbed and thrown, to the point that Gwyn lost interest in me and starts going at it with Solaire. I catch up to them in time to see Gwyn toss aside Solaire's lifeless body before bearing down on me. He swings, I parry, riposte, YOU DEFEATED.

Thank you so much for putting words on feelings I've had for the game for the last 2 years!!!

Thank you

As frustrating as it is when GB let games like this slip through the net, its a relief to see them finally get their due. Games like Valkyria Chronicles, Dark (and Demon's) Souls, Vanquish, Space Marine etc etc, had to wait years to get any kind of recognition from the guys, and whilst the old saying is 'Better late than never' ,that isn't always enough in this risk averse times. You can't catch everything in the net I know, but it doesn't make the pain any easier when great games are allowed to fall through the cracks until its too late. Fortunately though In the case of Dark Souls, it wasn't so bad because the game managed to capture enough attention to make a splash. (And neither am I saying that recognition from GB is all that would have been required for those other games - just that such games need all the help they can get, and certainly don't need to fobbed off when the people in question haven't even played them etc).

This is no lecture - the idea that you should be on the lookout for good games and tell people about them is second nature to everyone. It isn't like GB (or anyone else) decides to purposefully ignore good games. There is no 'Can do Better!' mark to be stamped on their report card over this. Just a simple lamentation that the hype and marketing and general razzamatazz that accompanies the annual or twice annual release of AAA franchises, continues to do its poisonous job, swallowing up all the attention and time of the critics and public alike.

Seriously - its great that GB now has an article confirming what Dark Souls and Demon's Souls fans had been screaming in the comments sections for years. That the games were nowhere close to being as arcane or murderously impossible as was being made out. Its great that the article and playthrough give the game attention. But I worry that it might be a little backwards. If Dark Souls had sunk without trace because of all this misinformation and dismissive attitudes (from many places - not just GB), would this article even exist? If there wasn't a sequel due out soon, with high expectation surrounding it?

What I'm getting at is that word of mouth is all well and good, and has served this game well. But there are many other worthy games that also have that, but don't break through that glass ceiling. Again, there are so many games out there, so much marketing flim flam wasting the time of journalists and public alike. Hindsight is 20/20, and its too easy to just say 'They should have been on top of this and supported those games before they failed'. That's an unrealistic demand.

But it doesn't make things any easier. I'm genuinely thrilled that Dark Souls made it, and that it is receiving its props now. This is a great article, but I hope you'll understand if I can't help but regret that it wasn't written 2 or so years ago. Because this is the exact opposite order of when games like Dark Souls need such articles. Just as I regret the grim fate of games like Valkyria Chronicles and Vanquish etc etc etc. I know its not GB's or any serious critics' fault about these things - its just how things are. But its still heartbreaking when great games get no support when they need it most, and it sends out the wrong messages to developers and publishers when those game then fail.

Patrick shouldn't have to apologize - it isn't his fault that the industry works (and I use that term loosely) the way it does. Blame isn't helpful - let's just all continue to do what we can to make sure games like this succeed and are recognized, and in a timely enough fashion to be of use to them. And when that doesn't happen - articles like this are appreciated at least. I just wish we didn't need them.

Great article. I'm glad I gave the game a chance last summer, and happy to see Giant Bomb in on the action.

Great write-up of your experiences. I've enjoyed watching the videos.

For the longest time, I didn't think I would finish Dark Souls. I've watched more let's plays of this game than any other, especially recently with both Vinny, you and Jeff Green playing through it. Had a great time advicing and DJing for a friend who played through it, but when I was playing it myself I got frustrated whenever I was killed a few times. PvP and PvE got me through to the end, and I'm sad that none of these streams really deal much with it. Getting invaded by a much better player or getting help from a really good guy beating a boss for you is not very fun, but whenever I was invaded by a person around my skill level or helped someone beat a section, it was the kind of multiplayer fun I wished would have been in Dragon's Dogma instead of bots for pawns.

Just beat the game earlier tonight, and before I did I tried helping three other guys beat Gwyn(two of the attempts succeeded). While there are feelings of accomplishment and bragging rights unique to doing it all on your own, I hope you try out the multiplayer more in Dark Souls 2 when Flake83 isn't stalking you anymore, Patrick! And I'll recommend anyone having a hard time to help someone else out, get a humanity and summon a partner themselves. Maybe sometimes the guy you summon will be wearing Smough's outfit, hit you with his hammer, drop a "I'm sorry" carving and promptly leave your game, but that's an interesting experience too.

@ashler said:

I've thought about this as well. Not just 2011, but during the discussions of Giant Bomb's old game last year. Things would probably have been different if more people than Vinny had played it by then. They probably will be different this year, if everyone picks up Witcher 3 and Dark Souls 2 because their earlier installments have increased in popularity from their release date. And on the other hand: If most of the staff hadn't ignored those games, we would never get the current let's plays. I'm much more happy about getting those than an award, though I'm sure From Soft doesn't share the same viewpoint.

Wow. Bravo Patrick. You are the best staffer. Here's why:

A couple months ago, I wrote a forum post "GB owes an apology" that the mods unceremoniously deleted. In it, I explained that due to Jeff's short-sighted conclusion to Dark Souls, it was denied a spot on the 2011 GOTY list. There had, for a long while, an anti-Souls attitude that permeated throughout the staff that caused them to (wrongly) dismiss the game. Now that they've seen the light, I implored GB to apologize for this attitude and give them something in the 2013 GOTY categories (which, to my surprise, they did)

And now we have an actual apology.

WHAT SAY YOU NOW, MODS?

Another well written article. It really does seem like giving this time to simmer has allowed you to explain the core experience of these games to the general audience without having to stop at something as simple as "You either like it or you don't."

Well, it's pretty clear what needs to be done now. Jeff. Must. Die.

This website is becoming SpelunkySouls.EVE and I think I love it.

The first of many apologies on your road to becoming human.

@spraynardtatum: Funny you mention this because DSII seems to be more centered towards more or less needing illumination because of it's focus more on dark areas.

Also a big problem with these games is that the interface is just clunky as hell - it would be much more fun to go through and dig into item descriptions if using the menus wasn't so disorienting at first, and even once you "get" the layout it certainly still isn't good. Like the Bottomless Box UI? atrocious.

That being said, getting past the rough technical side, and some other crummy aspects the game has something to offer, a huge sense of discovery and a sort of self discover that few games do. It's a big mountain to climb with so much littered along the way.

I played Demon's Souls a long time ago and I don't remember liking it. But all the 'Souls' content on the site lately has me kind of interested in Dark Souls 2.

Good write up. Seems Jeff is the last holdout.

Man, big props to Patrick. He's been on a roll for quite a long time now doing/writing some super cool shit.

Apology accepted!

On Earth.

Patrick,

When I discovered Demon's Souls in 2009 I didn't quite know what to think but it eventually became my game of the year. Dug up my goty blog and here's what I wrote about it at the time: "We all play games to win, with the mindset that dying/losing a life should be avoided at all costs. Demon's Souls forced me to realize that the opposite is true; that losing is not only unavoidable, it's an intrinsic part of any game."

Enjoyed what I saw of your Dark Souls stream, especially that epic moment of you being scooped by the Bed of Chaos, so awesome. That gif should just be playing somewhere in your office, all the time.

I've been playing Dark Souls and watching some of your Dark Souls videos. While some may scoff at this, I see it as the push I need to complete it. Those two bosses nearly broke me, but I kept on going. When I finally did beat duo it felt like a great weight has lifted of me. Seath was the last boss I've beaten so far. I feel like I'm close to the end.

Great article Patrick!

What an awesome write up.

I haven't watched all of Patrick's streams as I don't want the spoilers (I am playing through it at the moment). DS is not the kind of game I typically play but since I forced myself to start playing it after watching Vinny's early episodes, I cannot stop thinking about this game when I am not playing. I don't think any game has had that kind of effect on me.

I am so happy that everyone at GiantBomb save Jeff (no one can change his mind) has come around on the souls series. They represent an era gone by of games not spoon feeding content to players and I'm just glad to see people who's views on games I respect seeing the awesomeness that From Software has been making.

I came kind of late to the party Patrick, and I feel just like you do. Beating Dark Souls STILL feels like a huge accomplishment, and it's one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had.

Welcome to the club!

@shadowskill11: Vinny was always a fan as was Matt. They're both pumped for 2 and wanted to run through it before it came out, and Patrick probably feels really bad about shutting it out of GotY talks the year it came out