On the fence

#1 Posted by daggon55 (114 posts) -

Ok so I still can't decide if I want to try this game or not.

I tried Demon's Souls and the experience was pretty negative for me. At first it seemed like I could kind of figure out what to do, it was slow paced and a little grueling but workable. Then I got past the first area, got my body back and things went south from there. I tried exploring a different area, I can't recall what it was called but it was basically a big pit with some walkways and planks and you climbed down it. There were a lot of falling deaths, some I can say were me, but I blame few on the camera, which kept getting tied up on other objects when I was trying to traverse a tricky bit. Also there was one point where some enemy was stuck in a wall, and then suddenly warped out of it and knocked me off, that one wasn't very nice. I could kind of understand the game as a difficult combat and exploration game, but "try not to fall in this hole while we make that hard for you" was the opposite of fun, also it seemed really unfair given the games controls and camera. I couldn't find my way out of there and basically gave up as it seemed too aggravating.

Now that said, there are some things about Dark Souls that look like I could give this another try. I like the checkpoint idea, looks like that would make exploring and going back for your souls a bit less time consuming. The humanity thing seems better than the whole you lose 30% health as a ghost thing. I'm sure humanity plays some larger role later in the game but it at least looks like it doesn't hamstring new players who are trying to figure things out.

So for people playing it, are the ledges and pits still a big feature of the game? Are the controls and camera any better? Does the removal of the hub world make it easier to figure out where to go or do you still get lost in places you "shouldn't" be? Is it more technically sound than Demon's Souls was?

#2 Posted by onarum (2012 posts) -

If you didn't liked Demons Souls don't even bother. 
 
The bonfires are not that much different then the arch stones you could use to go back to the nexus, and also served as a checkpoint, because the area between the arch stones was not that big to beggin with, also in your first playthrough of an area you would get check pointed on every time you went through those glowing veil things, so I don't think that would be much of a big difference for you.
 
Also I never had any real problems with the camera in DS.

#3 Posted by Joeyoe31 (820 posts) -

Dying is still a very big feature. Pits not so much but ledges? Yeah. Plenty of those.

Unfortunately for you the game doesn't have any better controls and the camera isn't any better either. In fact they nerfed things like rolling because of the invisibility frames.

Here's the opinion part, I think the games removal of the hub makes the game way harder. I mean with Demon's Souls, you go through, you beat a boss, and you go back to hub to spend your souls. With Dark Souls it's like, I beat a boss now keep going and there might not be a bonfire anytime soon. So either backtrack or keep going and risk the souls you have. As for knowing where to go, because the game is open world it also makes the game confusing to navigate even for series vets. Once I beat the Gargoyles and run the first bell, the guy just tells you to ring the other. Where is that? I honestly still don't know.

And as for the technical problems, I can't say that I've run into any but whatever. As for wall glitches and stuff like that, yes it is better. As for framerate? Sometimes the game likes to slow down. Even when your just walking, I haven't died because of it but I can see it happening to people.

Hope that helps you bro.

#4 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

It's a game with a difficulty from a lost age, before games held your hand. You shouldn't play this if you didn't like Demon's Souls.

#5 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10466 posts) -

@Joeyoe31 said:

Dying is still a very big feature.

For some reason I think that sentence is hilarious.

#6 Posted by probablytuna (3533 posts) -

I suggest you watch a livestream of the game or something to see if you truly want to play something like that. If you don't, move and to other games. If you do, good luck and enjoy the experience.

#7 Posted by imsh_pl (3295 posts) -

@MooseyMcMan said:

@Joeyoe31 said:

Dying is still a very big feature.

For some reason I think that sentence is hilarious.

"Demon' Souls' spiritual successor, now with even more emphasis on the Dying feature."

#8 Edited by daggon55 (114 posts) -

@Joeyoe31 said:

Dying is still a very big feature. Pits not so much but ledges? Yeah. Plenty of those.

Unfortunately for you the game doesn't have any better controls and the camera isn't any better either. In fact they nerfed things like rolling because of the invisibility frames.

Here's the opinion part, I think the games removal of the hub makes the game way harder. I mean with Demon's Souls, you go through, you beat a boss, and you go back to hub to spend your souls. With Dark Souls it's like, I beat a boss now keep going and there might not be a bonfire anytime soon. So either backtrack or keep going and risk the souls you have. As for knowing where to go, because the game is open world it also makes the game confusing to navigate even for series vets. Once I beat the Gargoyles and run the first bell, the guy just tells you to ring the other. Where is that? I honestly still don't know.

And as for the technical problems, I can't say that I've run into any but whatever. As for wall glitches and stuff like that, yes it is better. As for framerate? Sometimes the game likes to slow down. Even when your just walking, I haven't died because of it but I can see it happening to people.

Hope that helps you bro.

Damn, I was hoping maybe it controlled better. I guess I was looking for it to be more "fair" not necessarily less difficult. But it just sounds like something I don't have the patience for anymore.

@ahaisthisourchance said:

It's a game with a difficulty from a lost age, before games held your hand. You shouldn't play this if you didn't like Demon's Souls.

I'm 30 duder, I come from that age, I used to be able to no-continue bionic commando. Then I got old...

#9 Posted by Vegetable_Side_Dish (1724 posts) -

That pit part you talk about was one of two paths you could have taken, by the way. The part where you turned right after the archstone into that world? You could also turn left.  
Haven't played Dark Souls yet so I can't help with that, sorry!

#10 Posted by Chop (1994 posts) -

Don't bother. All your issues are still very much present and the promise of check points doesn't change things as much as you'd think.

#11 Posted by alternate (2682 posts) -

@daggon55 said:

I tried Demon's Souls and the experience was pretty negative for me.

This is your answer. DS is evolutionary not revolutionary.

A friend of mine was telling me how he didn't like Gears 3. I asked if he liked Gears 1 and he said no - but people were saying Gears 3 was a better game so he decided to buy it.. I questioned whether I still wanted to be friends with him, but he sold me his copy of gears 3 on the cheap. :D

#12 Posted by Syndrom (351 posts) -

calling the game unfair is a bit harsh to be honest, when you die in these games it's probably your own damn fault.

When i was playing earlier, i came to a path were i could go down where there was this big ass knight, i knew for a fact going down there was a very bad idea, still i tried it and failed hard. I rushed back to that location but died again due to not playing safely. Lost 2300 souls right there (still early in the game) and it's all my fault.

Sure the controls are a little sluggish but hey don't rush in to things and play on the safe side, never rush stuff.

#13 Posted by Ares42 (2573 posts) -

Pretty much in the same boat. What really bugs me is that I watch streams etc and some of them really makes me wanna check it out, while others just reminds me why I didn't like Demon's Souls. Think the most revealing moment so far for me though was hearing Vinny talking about group combat, it just really describes why the game is bad and not hard (as people love to call it). Although on the other hand I think I'll still buy it just to be 100% sure. I think it might be one of those games that you need the right mindset on how to approach it. So I'm gonna have it on my shelf until I reach a period of time where I have that "I just really wanna dig into a game" thing going. I've had other amazing titles that worked like that before, hated them like the plague but then when the time was right it all just clicked.

#14 Posted by Syndrom (351 posts) -

i think the group combat isn't that bad tbh, you just have to watch your back and don't rush into it. Let's take a game like assasin's creed, a game where you can be surrounded by 10 enemies and they just stand there waiting for their turn to attack, that's just fucking retarded.

In DS group combat can be very dangerous cause you have to keep your guard up and wait for chances to attack, if you rush into and let your guard down to finish the job quickly you WILL get punished for it. I don't find that's because the game has bad controls/gameplay.

#15 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -

I'm still not completely sold. I only played Demon's Souls for about a half hour, and frankly the dying bugged me. It still strikes me as lazy in terms of game design. People keep saying that the game is 60-100 hours long, and I'm wondering how much of that time is spent traversing areas over and over again after dozens upon dozens of deaths. The rest of the game actually looks pretty cool.

Some people like to call modern checkpoint systems "hand-holding," but what it really is is a means to keep us from getting frustrated and not finishing the game. Yes, that's how games were back in the good old days. Those days when most of us never saw half of the content in our games because we were too frustrated with them to finish. There's a place for this sort of thing, but it limits the game's true appeal. I'm a big RPG fan, and I'd love to pick up this game ... but not if I'm going to be frustrated most of the time. Dying over and over again and traversing areas over and over again isn't what I consider entertainment.

So, yeah, I'm a bit on the fence. It really depends on how difficult the game is. I keep hearing conflicting reports on that. Some say that the difficulty is killer, others say it's not really so bad.

#16 Posted by Syndrom (351 posts) -

you just have to learn how the game works to be honest, then the difficulty is managable

#17 Posted by pornstorestiffi (4909 posts) -

If you didn't like Demon's Souls don't buy Dark Souls. You don't need to buy it just because there is a lot of talk about the game. If you don't like dying or can't handle being frustrated, it's really not for you.

#18 Posted by MachoFantastico (4484 posts) -

On the fence myself, haven't played any of the games those but can see why they are so beloved. Just not sure I could handle the frustration. Use to think a demo would do this game a great favour but so many Demon Souls/Dark Souls players have said that a demo wouldn't be a very good showing of what the game is really about. But I still can't help think I'd prefer a demo to try, just not sure I want to throw down £39.99 for a game I might end up hating.

#19 Edited by C0V3RT (1350 posts) -

I was recently in the same boat as you. We're about the same age and had gotten into the hype, despite not having a great experience with Demon's Souls. I can appreciate a challenging game and would love to give it a go at some point, I just don't have the time to sink into it that it sounds like it requires to get the most takeaway from it... especially given what's on the horizon.

I'm holding off and will wait on a price drop. Less of a risk financially and by the time it drops, there should be some great wiki's out there for when I get pissed off and frustrated.

You could also nab the game from Red Box over a weekend and give it a spin to see if it's for you.

#20 Posted by Karkarov (2980 posts) -

Straight up listen to the guys who said "if you don't like Demon's Souls you won't like this". The game is if anything even more fair than demon's souls but at the same time less forgiving. I had alot of early deaths simply because I relied on the roll being better than it was going to be, if anything, the shield is even more important in this game.

#21 Posted by daggon55 (114 posts) -

@C0V3RT said:

I was recently in the same boat as you. We're about the same age and had gotten into the hype, despite not having a great experience with Demon's Souls. I can appreciate a challenging game and would love to give it a go at some point, I just don't have the time to sink into it that it sounds like it requires to get the most takeaway from it... especially given what's on the horizon.

I'm holding off and will wait on a price drop. Less of a risk financially and by the time it drops, there should be some great wiki's out there for when I get pissed off and frustrated.

You could also nab the game from Red Box over a weekend and give it a spin to see if it's for you.

I'm thinking the same thing, I'd really like to try this game some time because it really seems unique, but probably better to wait and not spend as much so I don't feel like the purchase was a waste if I can't stomach it.

The time investment is a big concern. I can definitely see this being a more palatable game for people that have more time to spend on it, even out the highs and lows. Kind of like old days where I could spend after-school time playing the 2 or 3 NES games I had that year.

It's starting to feel like a more esoteric question...

"Am I too old for this shit?"

(saxophone)

#22 Posted by Largo6661 (332 posts) -

@daggon55: to be honest dude dark souls was made for people who loved demon souls, all that stuff you said you didnt like is still there. Yes there are checkpoints but the game is pretty much identical. My advise would be to give it a miss or pic up a used copy when the price has gone down. Personaly i loved demon souls so dark souls is great for me becouse it literally is the same game exept with a different look. :) hope that helps

#23 Posted by ninjakiller (3405 posts) -
@Karkarov said:

Straight up listen to the guys who said "if you don't like Demon's Souls you won't like this". The game is if anything even more fair than demon's souls but at the same time less forgiving. I had alot of early deaths simply because I relied on the roll being better than it was going to be, if anything, the shield is even more important in this game.

#24 Posted by Joeyoe31 (820 posts) -

@MooseyMcMan: I thought it was pretty funny writing it too.

#25 Posted by Godak (166 posts) -

TC, I'm sorry, but...I think you need to get off the fence.

#26 Posted by Ares42 (2573 posts) -
@pornstorestiffi said:
If you don't like dying or can't handle being frustrated, it's really not for you.
But that's not what made me not like Demon's Souls. I never really found the game to be that hard or frustrating, it was just awkward and clunky. I'm fully aware that they've kept the same gameplay etc, but after watching others playing it in different ways I'm thinking maybe I just need to find the right style to enjoy it.

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