Ornstein and Smough advice please?

  • 89 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by killacam (1284 posts) -

EDIT: I DEFEATED (see bottom)

So I've been trying to summon others to help me with these guys, but after a few poor summon choices and invaders I'm now out of humanity! I don't think I can take the two of them on by myself... Where does one even find humanity? Is there somewhere else I could/should go in the meantime to gain some levels? Thanks for the help!

#2 Posted by Korwin (2864 posts) -

At that point in the game your can't warp to another bonfire, so I'm not sure there is any way for you to gain immediate access to any more in Anor Londo. Grinding at that point is a little rough as well as you won't be able to get to the Princess' bonfire without beating those guys.

#3 Edited by killacam (1284 posts) -

@korwin: I would just leave through sen's fortress. I think those demon bird things will take me back if I ask nicely... So where can I get some humanity?

#4 Posted by Hayt (283 posts) -

Rats drop humanity so farm the sewers. That said you shouldn't need to. Kill the skinny guy first then keep a pillar between you and fatty and slowly poke him to death when he's recovering from the big swings

#5 Edited by Aerobie (104 posts) -

I was stuck on those guys for way too long. I was using heavy armor with a shield and a +5 Black Knight Sword. I spent a long time grinding souls to upgrade my gear and skills by killing the knights and the two royal sentinels, then stopping at the blacksmith to buy any upgrade items I needed, then looping back to the bonfire, getting over 10k souls each time if I went the shortest way, ignoring most of the knights.

#6 Posted by killacam (1284 posts) -

@hayt: Hmm okay... I would like to kill little dude last so I can get his armour, but good to know. May head back to the sewers. Thanks!

#7 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

I kept the big one between me and the little one like a wall, always running away and around, hitting the big one with fireballs as I did.

It worked. . . eventually.

#8 Posted by Turambar (6780 posts) -

Simply killing enough of the enemies in the area will eventually net you a humanity. Solaire has a summon sign in the big hall before the boss door, and he's a fairly sturdy summon for the fight.

#9 Posted by CitizenCoffeeCake (530 posts) -

I beat them on my second try (not bragging, maybe I just got lucky) by using homing soul mass and soul spears. Sorcery is so good, I don't know what your build is though. I'm sure you know this already but only focus on one of them as the other will just get healed when one dies. Also if you're carrying around any boss souls I would just pop em and level up some more, I never used a boss soul to craft anything. Good luck duder.

#10 Edited by killacam (1284 posts) -

@turambar: Ok yeah I thought that may be where those soft humanities come from.. I summoned Solaire once and then his summon sign never reappeared. Maybe next time I load the game it will be there...

@mcghee:Sounds like a solid strategy to me!

#11 Posted by Marz (5651 posts) -

you can farm humanity from rats(depths are a good place) or go invade people... but yeah having solaire for that fight makes it a hell of alot easier

#12 Posted by afabs515 (1054 posts) -

The first (and only) time I beat those dudes, it took me about 25 - 30 minutes on just that run. I just moonwalked around the room and would hit Ornstein after he charged me. Smough was real easy to kill once Ornstein was gone. I saw you want to kill smough first. No fucking idea how to do that without a summon. Youtube may help with that, but honestly, it isn't really worth it to do that IMO. Best of luck.

#13 Posted by killacam (1284 posts) -

@afabs515: Is Ornstein's armour not that great? It looks so cool..

#14 Posted by StrainedEyes (1324 posts) -

@killacam said:

@afabs515: Is Ornstein's armour not that great? It looks so cool..

It is good, and looks cool.

#15 Edited by Hayt (283 posts) -

What of build do you use OP? I've beaten Super Ornstein but my build is high end high str/dex so I was able to block him and chip him down

Edit: and that was on ng+ so it was easier

#16 Posted by Hunkulese (2721 posts) -

Fuck those two.

#17 Posted by blueneurosis (98 posts) -

@killacam: I think the real key to this fight is to have complete awareness of what they're up to, in terms of location and animation. That means keeping both of them on the screen whenever possible. Stay out of the center of the room, as that's best area for them to flank you.

For my brutally painful solo win, I played with an emphasis on agility/mobility. Lotta dodging. Kiting, where you just continually keep them moving after you helps, as you can go in a lap around the room. Just know when you should turn before you hit a wall. A moving target is a happy target. I'd also suggest using the pillars, even after they're destroyed as roadblocks. They'll buy you a few moments where you can heal and decide which one is the immediate threat. Let them make their move, then attack. Never be the one to swing first.

Fuck those two.

What he said. This is a real bastard of a fight. Good luck.

#18 Edited by afabs515 (1054 posts) -

@killacam said:

@afabs515: Is Ornstein's armour not that great? It looks so cool..

It is good, and looks cool.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying that to me, it wasn't worth the frustration. If you wanna do it, go for it. Just wasn't for me.

#19 Posted by dudeglove (7825 posts) -

"Soft" humanity can be farmed from enemies within a zone if the boss is still alive (e.g. in Undeadburg before killing Taurus Demon). After killing x amount of enemies you will be given 1 point of humanity as if you had collected souls. You can farm a maximum of 10 before the "soft" counter maxes out, although the number of enemies you need to kill each time increases with each humanity point. In Anor Londo where you are right now, the best/least difficult enemies to kill are the painting guardians (white pyjama throwing-knife guys in the cathedral with the big painting near the spirally lift thingy) who can be reached easily from the bonfire nearby when you move it down to the lowest level. Usually if you're at 0 humanity, clearing out the lower level of the cathedral will give at least 1 point of soft humanity.

"Hard" humanity (that you can burn whenever you want) will drop from rats in either the Depths or beneath the Sunlight Altar (i.e. the three rats before undead parish when you dip down underneath the bridge drake).

#20 Edited by Asurastrike (2166 posts) -

Stick and move. Just don't get yourself cornered by those two.

#21 Posted by probablytuna (3654 posts) -

Killing Ornstein makes the fight much easier later on. I can't offer much advice except learn their attack patterns. I killed Ornstein first so I focused the first fight on him. Spoilers for the fight: Whenever he charges, I block the first hit, that leaves him open for one attack then I back away and wait until he does it again. Rinse and repeat until dead. On the second half, Smough was tougher only because he does the AOE lightning attack which I sometime could roll out of, but for his other moves you can basically side step away then stay close to chip away his health until he does the AOE attack again (just watch out for that one attack where he runs with his hammer forward and doing a tonne of damage with hammer uppercut after).

And someone mentioned having Smough in front of Ornstein is a good strategy if you want to kill Ornstein last (it prevents him from using the charge attack on you because Smough's in the way) but I never got past the second stage of the fight so I never knew the full moveset for Ornstein.

If you want to farm humanity but don't want to go through Sen's Fortress it's best if you just kill everything in Anor Londo so you can get "soft" humanity like people have mentioned. You can get up to 10 humanities this way and it takes a long time to get one, but I think there's a formula for it (yep there is).

Good luck with the fight. It's probably one of the tougher fights I've had, though I feel like I was a bit overlevelled by the time I fought them so they weren't as difficult as I first though.

Online
#22 Edited by Fire_Of_The_Wind (170 posts) -

#23 Posted by supamon (1333 posts) -

Just follow these simple steps and you'll win for sure:

Step 1: don't die.

#24 Posted by Gatehouse (621 posts) -

Killing Ornstein first is easier, but killing him second gives better loot. So, my biggest tip is to move as much as possible and never approach Ornstein from the front. This counts double especially when he gets big, as that lightning spear move of his is deadly. You've got a nice big room, so make the most of it. When you get close, try to come from the side or behind hit him in the shins as much as you can. He’s also really not a fan of pyromancy, so set him on fire whenever you can.

#25 Posted by gerrid (322 posts) -

pyromancy and pillars are your best friends. Run run run and be patient, only attack when you KNOW it is safe, and not at any other time.

And always put a pillar in between you and them before you heal too

#26 Posted by SomeguyJohnson (50 posts) -

Both Super Smough and Super Ornstein will try and attack you through the pillars so use that to your advantage. You can learn their attack patterns that way and slowly bring them down with arrows over the top of the pillar or pyromancy around the side. Their attacks have a long enough reach to get through the pillar though and they will butt smash and shoot lightning pretty frequently when they are low on health so if you're slow you have to be ready to book it.

#27 Posted by groin (846 posts) -

I beat him at soul level 1 with a crown of dusk, bellowing dragoncrest ring, heater shield, +5 fire reinforced club, and great combustion. Circle strafe around the room while blocking until you can perform a safe attack and slowly take them down. Never stay in the corners and try to keep both of them in your view at all times. If you're fighting super Ornstein then it's best to stay under his feet until he performs the jumping attack. Super Smough is much easier because you can punish his big leap slam attack.

#28 Posted by killacam (1284 posts) -

I did it! Praise the sun! My stubbornness to defeat Ornstein last almost destroyed me, but our parents were right: Anything can be done if you put your mind to it. I'd just like to thank everyone in this forum for their advice, God, and of course, Solaire. Couldn't have done it without ya bud.

#29 Posted by Popogeejo (615 posts) -

@killacam: Unless you're going to get into PVP it's a solid set. it doesn't upgrade all that well but for general game play I've found it great so far. Not sure how it'd fair in NG+ but doubt it'd become worthless for a long while. And it does look rad as hell.

To buy it just grind out some of the Sentinels by the Anor Londo warp.

#30 Posted by BBAlpert (1468 posts) -

Every single guide I've seen says "you should probably equip a fire-enchanted weapon." But as far as I can tell, I have absolutely no way to get one. If I don't have a curved sword to make Quelaag's whatever and I haven't done whatever stuff is needed to forge/ascend fire weapons, am I just fucked?

Up until this point, the game has been fun. Tough but fair, and fun. But this sort of frustrating bullshit is precisely why I avoided playing Dark Souls until just a few weeks ago. I don't want to quit, especially not this far into the game, but this simply isn't fun any more.

#31 Posted by killacam (1284 posts) -

@bbalpert: you don't have any curved sword? scimitar? falchion?

I didn't make the furysword until right after that battle actually, haha. I think the most important part is having some summoned backup. don't give up.. So much happens right after this point. It's very worth the struggle.

good luck out there.

#32 Posted by BBAlpert (1468 posts) -

@killacam said:

@bbalpert: you don't have any curved sword? scimitar? falchion?

I didn't make the furysword until right after that battle actually, haha. I think the most important part is having some summoned backup. don't give up.. So much happens right after this point. It's very worth the struggle.

good luck out there.

No scimitars, falchions, shotels, nothing. I could get a painting guardian sword by killing enough of those guys by the giant painting, but I realized that it wouldn't even matter because I didn't have the foresight apparently to give Andrei the large ember I picked up earlier, so I can't upgrade any weapons past +5 (and I'd need a +10 curved sword).

It's just so fucking frustrating because I've already burned through most of my humanities trying to summon help only to get immediately invaded or have the summons fail (playing on the PC). I finally managed to get someone summoned with my second-to-last humanity and was able to destroy Ornstein with the Caravella method (Havel's armor, iron flesh, and double fisting the biggest, heaviest, hardest hitting weapon I have). Then super-Smough killed me with one hit when I tried to heal right as iron flesh wore off.

The thing is that the boss wouldn't even be all that bad if it weren't for the 3 minute jog from the bonfire to the boss room. And the fact that 1 out of every 4 or 5 of those 3 minute jogs needs to be done all over again because I got stun-locked and killed trying to run past those last 2 super sentinels.

I know I should stick with it, and I will for a little while longer, but the fact that I've held on this long is a testament to how much potential I see in this game. I've definitely quit playing games over much less than anything like the Capra Demon or the Gaping Dragon. And that makes the prospect of giving up that much more disappointing, that I'd be missing out on the rest of this neat stuff. It's just that it's getting closer and closer to the point where the prospect of maybe someday seeing some awesome late-game content simply isn't worth spending any more hours making myself genuinely unhappy.

#33 Edited by Savage (325 posts) -

@bbalpert: Fire damage is nice, since neither of S&O are resistant to it, but it isn't required by any means. Pure physical damage works well too, as does magic damage. You could try using the Crystal Halberd, which has high pure physical damage, and is found early in Anor Londo (before the circular platform elevator).

Edit: somehow the rest of my post got deleted.

I wanted to also point out that you can leave Anor Londo if you want to (just in case you're not aware of this). Simply go back to the start of the level where the gargoyles dropped you off and you'll see a prompt to ride the gargoyles back to Sen's Fortress. At Sen's, there's a great shortcut that let's you skip nearly the entire interior and all the traps by using the cages as elevators. You'll need to find a key to unlock them up. Spoiler on where to find the key: jump across the broken gap in the walkway, near where the giant's huge firebombs where landing, then follow that path to its end to find the key.

#34 Edited by BBAlpert (1468 posts) -

@savage said:

@bbalpert: Fire damage is nice, since neither of S&O are resistant to it, but it isn't required by any means. Pure physical damage works well too, as does magic damage. You could try using the Crystal Halberd, which has high pure physical damage, and is found early in Anor Londo (before the circular platform elevator).

Edit: somehow the rest of my post got deleted.

I wanted to also point out that you can leave Anor Londo if you want to (just in case you're not aware of this). Simply go back to the start of the level where the gargoyles dropped you off and you'll see a prompt to ride the gargoyles back to Sen's Fortress. At Sen's, there's a great shortcut that let's you skip nearly the entire interior and all the traps by using the cages as elevators. You'll need to find a key to unlock them up. Spoiler on where to find the key: jump across the broken gap in the walkway, near where the giant's huge firebombs where landing, then follow that path to its end to find the key.

I feel really stupid right now. I must have gotten mixed up reading about another section that you apparently can't leave until you beat. I'm still kind of frustrated, but learning that the game didn't just strand me in Anor Londo without the means to beat it does deflate a lot of that. Thanks for the tips!

Edit: I am feeling better today. I think I just really needed to vent a bit.

#35 Posted by BBAlpert (1468 posts) -

I finally did it! By (almost) the smallest margin possible, I got through that fight alive. On a side note, I was quite amused by the immature messages left by players in and around Gwynevere's chambers. I thought I got a screenshot of all of them, but apparently I missed getting a shot of the "Imminent gorgeous view" message somebody left.

I say "almost" because I could have finished with 1 HP instead of 2 HP.

#36 Posted by MB (12382 posts) -

YOU DEFEATED is way better.

Moderator
#37 Posted by MormonWarrior (2590 posts) -

You defeated! A winner is you!

#38 Edited by BBAlpert (1468 posts) -

By the way, if this would be of any help to people stuck on S&O and use a strength/tank build, this is what worked (and what didn't) for me.

Killing either of them while trying to dodge both wasn't working for me, as neither me nor my character were quick enough. Tanking with iron flesh worked decently enough for taking down one guy, but both of the powered up second guys had attacks that hit really hard, even through iron flesh. So the obvious in hindsight strategy that finally worked for me was to pop iron flesh right before/after entering the fog gate and 2 hand smashing one guy as quickly as possible. If timed right, you can kill the first one just as iron flesh wears off. At that point, you go back to dodging and blocking to deal with the second guy. I kept trying to tank both or evade both, but it wasn't until I mixed it up that I finally got it.

#39 Posted by MB (12382 posts) -

The encounter seems to be balanced on splitting O&S up and not trying to have the player deal with them both at the same time. It becomes much more manageable with Solaire helping out and then is made almost trivial if you have both sunbro and another player to assist. On NG+ I had to have both to get through the fight, probably because I'm still terrible at roll dodging.

Moderator
#40 Edited by Heltom92 (710 posts) -

I would just like to say that I got to Ornstein and Smough the other day and beat them on my first attempt.

Am I the darkest soul?

#41 Posted by ajamafalous (11990 posts) -

@heltom92 said:

I would just like to say that I got to Ornstein and Smough the other day and beat them on my first attempt.

Am I the darkest soul?

Apparently I'm the darkest soul right along with you. I had seen a lot of threads titled around "help with smough+ornstein" or what have you, so I got pretty nervous and expected inevitable death when I walked through the fog gate and saw the cutscene and their names. I ended up killing Smough first (which apparently makes phase 2 harder?) and I only used 3 flasks for the whole thing. xXxMLG_DarK_SoulS_2013xXx, I guess.

I ended up sticking around Anor Londo afterward and co-op killing the boss another 10-15 times, and man, some people are so bad. I don't know whether it's a lack of gear or situational awareness, but I can't tell you how many runs ended in phase 2 with the host getting oneshot by a buttstomp.

#42 Edited by MB (12382 posts) -

@ajamafalous: that sounded like me, sort of! I went through most of the game with high poise and a shield/strike strategy. O&S was the first encounter where that didn't really work anymore and I had to be more mobile, and I sort of had to re-learn how to fight. It still took help to beat them though, and on NG+ I had an even more difficult time and definitely needed Sunbro.

As an aside, I like how the gated encounters in the game are also skill checks, Not necessarily gear checks since people can get through the entire game naked and with only a sharp stick to poke dudes in the eye with. It's like the game is saying to you, "Dude, if you can't make it past this boss, go back and learn how to play because this is it for you."

Moderator
#43 Edited by ajamafalous (11990 posts) -

@mb said:

@ajamafalous: that sounded like me, sort of! I went through most of the game with high poise and a shield/strike strategy. O&S was the first encounter where that didn't really work anymore and I had to be more mobile, and I sort of had to re-learn how to fight. It still took help to beat them though, and on NG+ I had an even more difficult time and definitely needed Sunbro.

As an aside, I like how the gated encounters in the game are also skill checks, Not necessarily gear checks since people can get through the entire game naked and with only a sharp stick to poke dudes in the eye with. It's like the game is saying to you, "Dude, if you can't make it past this boss, go back and learn how to play because this is it for you."

The game's design is so fascinating to me. Better gear or more skill levels are by no means a requirement; they're simply there to help players bridge the skill gap. There's very clearly one or two "intended" paths of progression from area to area, but between the master key, other shortcuts, and player knowledge/skill, you can do many of the areas and boss encounters in whatever order you want.

99% of games just simply aren't made like Dark Souls anymore, and that's why it's pretty easily my game of the year.

#44 Edited by dudeglove (7825 posts) -

@heltom92: beat them on my first ever go on the ps3 too. I had summoned solaire and didn't understand what all the fuss was, although I might've been slightly over leveled for them at the time, mostly because I got stuck in the painted world for several hours beforehand not knowing wtf was going on.

#45 Posted by crithon (3186 posts) -

I felt I had more problems with the knights BEFORE them. The hype behind Ornstein and Smough was just so ridiculous I expected the worst.

#46 Posted by hippocrit (239 posts) -

O&S are at least a difficult but fair test of skill. That Anor Londo archer can go eff himself.

#47 Posted by Deathpooky (1399 posts) -

Agreed, O&S are a bitch and can punish mistakes, but that archer is the real boss of Anor Londo.

#48 Posted by HistoryInRust (6305 posts) -

@crithon said:

I felt I had more problems with the knights BEFORE them. The hype behind Ornstein and Smough was just so ridiculous I expected the worst.

You're absolutely right.

Anor Londo is a mess for first-timers. The archers, obviously, will punish you relentlessly until you either bulldoze your way through them or seek help to strategize from afar. Tough customers in their own right, the Silver Knights inside have backstab windows much narrower than most enemies, and who can punish the player even for non-mistakes (e.g. -- landing a clean hit from behind instead of successfully performing a backstab).

Ornstein and Smough try to overwhelm the player with shock and awe. They want you to panic, to feel dread and despair. The moment you're overcome by that is the moment you lose, but not a second before. Staying calm and keeping to a gameplan is key.

#49 Edited by Legion_ (1278 posts) -

My best advice would be to win.

#50 Edited by bybeach (4817 posts) -

I know everyone has answered your questions by now. Hunt for humanity by farming rats in the sewers. Having the covetous serpent ring rocks, but you will get humanity that way regardless.

Now I just fought those 2 assholes two days ago. Sadly as a reflection on me, it took me three days of trying, yet it was so simple in the end.

My advice is simple. I leveled up, leveled up, leveled up stats pertinent to me(strength, endurance, vitality) and best weapon, silver knight armour(lighter weight than Havel's). I used the halberd(Raw-well long by this point) because it's normal attack is quick a bit like a spears, and powerful.

Then it went like this. I slowly developed the winning strategy of taking out the Dragon-slayer first quickly, and then I aggroed and faced the enhanced Executioner, staying a distance from ...Her(?), and rolling in for normal sticks past the hammer drop. I would not stay, lest that incur the lightning Plop of instant death (lol). And when I finally mentally understood and incorporated that strategy, it was almost easy!! I was a nearly beaten Lady Warrior from the far east, before.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.