Problems with Invasions

#1 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

Sorry for the billions of topics I keep creating, but I just wanted to address something that really bothers me when I'm being invaded.

This happened on my main character while going through NG+4. I was going through Anor Londo as usual and I got invaded; of course. Anyways.. I lost.. and I keep my souls, but loose my humanity.

How is that fair? Honestly. I love this game, and even if I lost 99 humanity, I would still love this game.. but honestly, how is this fair? If someone invades me, and they die.. they loose NOTHING. But If the victim dies, they loose essentially EVERYTHING. Honestly... If you're being invaded by someone, they should have all the penalties for dying instead of you.. since you weren't doing anything wrong. Sometimes people just go human to get a meat-shield for a boss fight.. and 'poof' 'I_AM_1337' has invaded!' appears. I just don't understand what From Soft was thinking.. giving the victim more penalty than the actual invader (who is sinning by the way).

I don't know if anyone agrees.. and I'm sure there will be replies saying 'This whole game is unfair, not just pvp', but I don't want a debate, I just wanted to share an ongoing problem I have when playing this game. It's no better on consoles either.. especially PS3 users.. =/

#2 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

Thats the risk of being alive. Never keep huge amounts of humanity on yourself. And no..its not fair. Thats the entire point of the game. 

#3 Posted by Dprotp (47 posts) -

why would you lose humanity? isn't it all in your bloodstain...? ...or is losing it an effect of being invaded by a darkwraith?

#4 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

You don't have a bloodstain if you die, you just respawn and keep your souls. Your humanity disappears on the other hand..

#5 Posted by Atta (135 posts) -

wait...how can you still have any questions about this game after 4 playthroughs? O_O

anyway...after the invader kills you, you DO leave a bloodstain. or at least, I left one recently. also if you kill the invader you get his humanities. if he kills you he gets yours.

again, that was how it was for me.

am I wrong?

#6 Edited by Giantstalker (1510 posts) -

I think they should give more options for players to run away/escape, I mean if you're not built for PvP (which covers many builds) it basically means you get to die. No control whatsoever, you're going to get smashed.

I believe quitting the game ends the invasion and reverts you to your latest save to that point (the game autosaves very frequently). This is essentially a fast way to disconnect from the invader. You'll have to do it through the console however as the option is greyed out if you try the in-game menu. Alternatively, on the PC, killing the process would instantly quit the game.

I haven't personally tried it, as I never go human anymore because of this issue, but I think it's worked for others.

#7 Posted by Jazzycola (662 posts) -

Humanity is kinda worthless in grand-scheme. I mean all you need is 3 humanity to really be lucky at getting good shit. Also, invasions or summoning is some of the most inconsistent stuff in Dark Souls. Sometimes it works sometimes you'll be stuck outside the bonfire waiting for the invasion to fail.

#8 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

@Atta said:

wait...how can you still have any questions about this game after 4 playthroughs? O_O

anyway...after the invader kills you, you DO leave a bloodstain. or at least, I left one recently. also if you kill the invader you get his humanities. if he kills you he gets yours.

again, that was how it was for me.

am I wrong?

You probably aren't wrong, maybe I wasn't paying attention. Anyways.. if From Software wants to say it's fair by doing a 1v1 matchup against an invader, and you loose humanity, then they're not looking at it the right way.

A lot of people will say 'Just don't go human'. Well... what If I want to kindle the bonfire? What If I want to summon someone to help me? I can't do that without being human, so honestly; what's the point of giving the invader the opportunity to take your humanity if all you wanted to do was kindle the flame. It's not unfair, so much as a borderline ridiculous game element.

Either or, I don't hate the game, and I'm not invaded 100% of the time I go human, I just wanted to address this issue and see what other people think of it. I'm actually pushing for NG+5 now. ^ ^

#9 Posted by JackOhara (227 posts) -

@Pieman51 said:

You don't have a bloodstain if you die, you just respawn and keep your souls. Your humanity disappears on the other hand..

You always leave a bloodstain, regardless of what you die by (UNLESS you are using sacrifice rings). It will always contain the souls and humanity from your most recent death. If I invade you as a Darkwraith and you kill me I get sent back to the bonfire and I have to go collect my bloodstain from where I initiated the invasion. If I die before I make it there I lose the souls and humanity, just like you. Not to mention the fact that when you are human it is usually to summon someone in, so the balance is really tipped in favor of the person being invaded.

#10 Posted by handlas (2634 posts) -

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you guys are saying.

If you are invaded and get killed you DO have a bloodstain. This includes all your souls and all of your humanity that you had on you at the time of being alive. You only lose that one humanity you used to reverse your hollowing.

And I'm pretty sure there is some benefit to having a ton of humanity on you. Isn't it better drops or something? I started a new playthrough recently (only my 2nd character) and have been trying to keep myself alive as much as possible. I'm running around with 10 humanity in human form so far and even at the beginning of the game I'm getting invaded by guys that have absurdly strong weapons.

#11 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

The instant you get invaded, it's best to head back to the nearest bonfire so that if you lose the subsequent fight, you just have to walk like 30 seconds.

#12 Edited by Dark (360 posts) -

@Terramagi: Or if the boss is up, try and scoot past the invader to the boss door, once you enter the boss fight the invader is sent home with nothing. Thats if you are on the way to fight the boss anyway that is.

#13 Posted by Dprotp (47 posts) -

i love summoning 2 other dudes as soon as i get invaded

and then i just sorta chill and watch him die

#14 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

@Dark said:

@Terramagi: Or if the boss is up, try and scoot past the invader to the boss door, once you enter the boss fight the invader is sent home with nothing. Thats if you are on the way to fight the boss anyway that is.

This is a good idea, but once again, what if I wanted to kindle the flame or just summon someone to help me? From Soft is literally restricting me from being able to help myself by going human. I don't even understand why I need to be human to kindle.. but it's annoying nontheless.

#15 Edited by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

@Pieman51 said:

@Dark said:

@Terramagi: Or if the boss is up, try and scoot past the invader to the boss door, once you enter the boss fight the invader is sent home with nothing. Thats if you are on the way to fight the boss anyway that is.

This is a good idea, but once again, what if I wanted to kindle the flame or just summon someone to help me? From Soft is literally restricting me from being able to help myself by going human. I don't even understand why I need to be human to kindle.. but it's annoying nontheless.

"Oh, the bonfire went out? System -> Exit Game -> Load Game -> Kindle in the 30 seconds before the online kicks in again."

#16 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

@Terramagi said:

@Pieman51 said:

@Dark said:

@Terramagi: Or if the boss is up, try and scoot past the invader to the boss door, once you enter the boss fight the invader is sent home with nothing. Thats if you are on the way to fight the boss anyway that is.

This is a good idea, but once again, what if I wanted to kindle the flame or just summon someone to help me? From Soft is literally restricting me from being able to help myself by going human. I don't even understand why I need to be human to kindle.. but it's annoying nontheless.

"Oh, the bonfire went out? System -> Exit Game -> Load Game -> Kindle in the 30 seconds before the online kicks in again."

I shouldn't be forced to restart the game because of some random ass invader. All I wanted to do was kindle, and the game won't let me kindle. Even IF I restarted, it wouldn't matter, because within 10 seconds I'd be invaded, and the animation for kindling would be cancelled out.

#17 Posted by mscupcakes (612 posts) -

Can't you just use the Black Soapstone to banish phantoms?

#18 Posted by eroticfishcake (7782 posts) -

@mscupcakes said:

Can't you just use the Black Soapstone to banish phantoms?

That only gets rid of co-op phantoms or returns you to your world if you're a phantom yourself. Otherwise PvP would be a little broken if you simply banished invaders with a tap of a button.

Anyway, what exactly do you mean that there's no bloodstain when you die? As far as I've seen and played, you always leave a bloodstain regardless of who (or what) kills you. I've cases where I've been murdered by invaders who've nicked a humanity or two but when I respawn I simply touch my bloodstain to get all my souls and humanity back. By going human you're opening yourself for invasions but you're also allowing yourself to summon co-op partners. That's the risk. As for invaders, there's no risk for them but also no reward as well, whereas you get humanity and souls if you defeat them. Risk/Reward.

#19 Posted by CptBedlam (4449 posts) -

That one piece of humanity you lose is not worth crying about really. Exactly the same happens when a normal enemy kills you.

#20 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

@CptBedlam said:

That one piece of humanity you lose is not worth crying about really. Exactly the same happens when a normal enemy kills you.

I never implied that I hate this game for making me loose out, I wanted to address the issue.

Plus, it's really bad loosing your last humanity to an invasion especially when you don't have the warp ability OR any enemies to farm humanity from. Other than Lautrec, but that isn't permanent, AND it's optional.

#21 Posted by CptBedlam (4449 posts) -

@Pieman51: I don't see the problem. This is not really an issue with invasions. You just die normally as you would against a common enemy.

And as I said already, it's just one humanity. These things are ridiculously easy to farm with the latest patches.

#22 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

@CptBedlam said:

@Pieman51: I don't see the problem. This is not really an issue with invasions. You just die normally as you would against a common enemy.

And as I said already, it's just one humanity. These things are ridiculously easy to farm with the latest patches.

I know, but you're missing the point. When I first run through Anor Londo, I don't have the warp ability to go to the Depths and farm more humanity. I don't have the warp to go to Andre. On top of this, there are no enemies around Anor Londo that drop humanity besides Lautrec or the boss and they're one-time deals.

So my point is.. if I use my LAST humanity to try to kindle the flame, because I want to make my life easier, but I can't; and I'm invaded.. then I'm essentially screwed. That's not fair, and someone shouldn't use an excuse as farfetch'ed as "This game is unfair" to show how absolutely retarded the invasion system is. If they die, they loose nothing. Fair enough right? Just invading some random guy trying to beat the game, be a douchebag, die, loose nothing. Fair right? Victim looses everything but his souls. Yeah? Fair? Whatever.

I'm still not mad at the game, I'm just irritated by this ongoing issue I have...

#23 Posted by CptBedlam (4449 posts) -

@Pieman51: This part of the game was intentionally designed for griefing others. Man up, run back to the Depths and farm some Humanity. It takes approximately two minutes to go there from Anor Londo (open the huge front gate, run across to Sen's, take the cage elevator, run past the three lizard enemies and you're at Andre's location already. From there take the elevator to Firelink, take the sewer route and and you're at the Depths).

#24 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

@CptBedlam said:

@Pieman51: This part of the game was intentionally designed for griefing others. Man up, run back to the Depths and farm some Humanity. It takes approximately two minutes to go there from Anor Londo (open the huge front gate, run across to Sen's, take the cage elevator, run past the three lizard enemies and you're at Andre's location already. From there take the elevator to Firelink, take the sewer route and and you're at the Depths).

two minutes to run from the inside bonfire to across the bridge, past the 3 sentinels, and up to the Sens Fortress 'warp'? I don't think it's that short. I wish it was.

I didn't get the cage key, because I keep forgetting where to find it, so that makes my life even worse. I do know of a few jump-down shortcuts though. Make that an extra 5 or 6 minutes.

Run from the Parish to the elevator, down to firelink, up to the sewer area, past the gate, past the door, through more sewers, around the corner, to the bonfire. An additional 5 minutes or so.

I don't want to be wasting all that time to get humanity. Granted I can farm as much as I want, it was never my intent to loose my last humanity, and farm for hours before I can actually play the damn game again. Preferably with a friend. It's still not worth it.

#25 Edited by CptBedlam (4449 posts) -

@Pieman51: The cage key is at the bottom of the Tower where the merchant guy is located.

I'm starting up Dark Souls now just to stop the time it takes to run from the Bonfire next to S&O to the bonfire in the Depths. I'll be right back....

edit: okay, I underestimated the time a bit but I also made the run with an unleveled Deprived (low stamina). It took me almost 7 minutes... which still isn't that bad.

#26 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

@CptBedlam said:

@Pieman51: The cage key is at the bottom of the Tower where the merchant guy is located.

I'm starting up Dark Souls now just to stop the time it takes to run from the Bonfire next to S&O to the bonfire in the Depths. I'll be right back....

Minus the cage key shortcut because I'm not playing right now. Everytime I alt-tab out and alt-tab back in, my computer shuts down for no particular reason. I assume it's my NVIDIA GTX 560 video card. Some feedback on the site said it was a faulty card so... scam-happy for me. It works most of the time though.

If you ARE counting the cage shortcut, then I guess I'll have to make due with that.

#27 Edited by CptBedlam (4449 posts) -

@Pieman51: Okay, I underestimated the time a bit but I also made the run with an unleveled Deprived (low stamina). It took me almost 7 minutes... which still isn't that bad.

And of course I used the cage shortcut. Just get the key, it's not far from the elevator: jump over to the Crestfallen Merchant and kill the lizard at the bottom of the tower.

#28 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

@CptBedlam said:

@Pieman51: Okay, I underestimated the time a bit but I also made the run with an unleveled Deprived (low stamina). It took me almost 7 minutes... which still isn't that bad.

And of course I used the cage shortcut. Just get the key, it's not far from the elevator: jump over to the Crestfallen Merchant and kill the lizard at the bottom of the tower.

Alright, I'll work on getting that shortcut.. but just refer to one of my previous posts. I don't want to go all the way there (granted I can farm as much humanity as I want) just to be able to enjoy the damn game. I'm not gonna say 'play' because I can defeat O&S as is.. but it's just difficult to be able to even make it better on you.

It's BS to say that being invaded is a difficult game mechanic. In any other situation, it would be, but in THIS situation, it more or less hinders the players progress by being able to defeat a boss or have a friend summoned.

#29 Posted by mason (258 posts) -

@Jazzycola said:

Humanity is kinda worthless in grand-scheme. I mean all you need is 3 humanity to really be lucky at getting good shit.

I disagree. Humanity also boosts your defense. A player with 99 humanity has over 70 extra points to their resistances. Maxed out, it's like wearing a 2nd chest armor. Makes you harder to kill.

Also farming seems to be exponentially more profitable with item find maxed out to 210 (or 410 with serpent ring). My first 2 playthroughs, I'd only have a few humanity at a time with the serpent ring, and yet could never get titanite slabs to drop. Not once, even after hours and hours of farming. Once I actually made efforts to keep my item find maxed out, I'd suddenly get 3 or 4 slabs with one play session.

With my current playstyle, I try my best to never lose my humanity for the entire game (and use a sacrifice ring when I'm not 100% sure I can retrieve my bloodstain). So I honestly prefer to lose souls than humanity. Souls are generally easier to restock.

#30 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

@mason said:

@Jazzycola said:

Humanity is kinda worthless in grand-scheme. I mean all you need is 3 humanity to really be lucky at getting good shit.

I disagree. Humanity also boosts your defense. A player with 99 humanity has over 70 extra points to their resistances. Maxed out, it's like wearing a 2nd chest armor. Makes you harder to kill.

Also farming seems to be exponentially more profitable with item find maxed out to 210 (or 410 with serpent ring). My first 2 playthroughs, I'd only have a few humanity at a time with the serpent ring, and yet could never get titanite slabs to drop. Not once, even after hours and hours of farming. Once I actually made efforts to keep my item find maxed out, I'd suddenly get 3 or 4 slabs with one play session.

With my current playstyle, I try my best to never lose my humanity for the entire game (and use a sacrifice ring when I'm not 100% sure I can retrieve my bloodstain). So I honestly prefer to lose souls than humanity. Souls are generally easier to restock.

I agree with this as well. I had ONE active humanity, and I wasn't wearing the serpent ring, and I got a Red Titanite Slab drop from that Octopus creature in the Demon Ruins. First drop too. Humanity can always make the difference, but I think I just got the luck of the draw.

#31 Posted by Inquisitor_Sif (58 posts) -

The answer is quite easy and simple: either you practice PvP to deal with the invader or don't connect to the Internet. This game is not a game that requires constant connection to play anyway. The other way I see is that just stay hollow.

#32 Posted by golguin (3830 posts) -

First thing is you always leave a bloodstain with souls and humanity when u die in your world. Second thing is how did u run out of item humanity? I played the game before humanity was patched to be common and I was swimming in it by anor londo.

#33 Posted by chan05 (318 posts) -

@Pieman51: If you really need to stay in Human form most of the time than one thing I would suggest is to join the Way of White Covenant as it dramatically reduces the probability of being invaded. Basically you will only get invaded if you are the only player in Human form in that area. You can read up on it hear: http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Way+of+White

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