So about the main character (Spoilers).

#1 Posted by AdequatelyPrepared (150 posts) -

If there is one thing I still don't quite understand about the story in Dark Souls, it is the position of the player character, the Chosen Undead. It seems to be as though he or she is a bit of wildcard, with both sides (Lords and Dragons), out to get him and kill him/her. Dragons I understand, because Dragons are dicks in the Dark Souls universe. I can't understand the Lords though, isn't a continuation of the flame in their best interests anyway? Also, how exactly is Lord Gwyn still alive seeing as he was the fuel for the First Flame?

#2 Posted by golguin (3672 posts) -

The player character as the "Chosen Undead" is following the path laid out by either Frampt or Kaathe. Frampt wants to continue the Age of Fire and Frampt wants to user in a new Age of Dark. No one knows for sure why they want what they want, but the Lords definitely don't want to die by giving up their soul. Gwyn has gone mad and doesn't know anything anymore.

#3 Edited by probablytuna (3446 posts) -

@golguin: I thought it was Gwyn's plan for you to succeed him (by killing him) and link the fire to extend the Age of Fire and Frampt is there to guide you? I obviously haven't read into much of the lore so when Gwyn fights you I interpreted it as he's ready to see if you are a worthy successor.

#4 Posted by Shirogane (3561 posts) -

It's kinda like a test is how i understand it. They want a strong person to light the flame, as they would then be better fuel and the flame would last longer. Also, they need someone strong enough to defeat Gwyn, since he's gone mad and will attack anybody who enters the kiln. Gwyn at this point is basically equivalent to a hollow. He's just a mindless husk.

#5 Posted by golguin (3672 posts) -

@golguin: I thought it was Gwyn's plan for you to succeed him (by killing him) and link the fire to extend the Age of Fire and Frampt is there to guide you? I obviously haven't read into much of the lore so when Gwyn fights you I interpreted it as he's ready to see if you are a worthy successor.

Linking the fire is something that Gwyndolin and Frampt want. It's unknown if Gwyn set that plan into motion himself when he went to link the fire or if they're doing that on their own. The Gwyn that you fight in the end is definitely just a husk. At least that's what Kaathe says.

#6 Posted by ShotgunLincoln (117 posts) -

It's open for interpretation but it seems that a lot of people agree that Frampt wants a new Age of Fire so that the Lords can regain their power and continue to rule, which ends with Gwyn fighting you in the hope that you'll see him as evil and restart the fire. Kaathe, however, wants to bring about an end to the Lords and start an Age of Dark which is essentially the Age of Man.

#7 Posted by Apsup (38 posts) -

Actually how I see it nether Lords nor Dragons are actually out to get the Chosen Undead. They just protect ether themselves or something important to them from the Chosen Undead. Also some of the Lords are kinda gone mad, which makes them even more aggressive.

Also Gwyn is alive because the fire in Dark Souls is connected to the souls, as a fuel he burned his souls much more than his body and begin the Zeus of the world, he had a lot of souls to burn. And even still it clearly drained him a lot. If you killed the optional boss Gwyndolin and saw the tomb he was protecting, you might have noticed that it was for a big, big man, not for something human sized like Gwyn was at the end.

#8 Posted by Popogeejo (573 posts) -

Long and short; the serpents are back stabbing everyone, just for different reasons.

Frampt wants to maintain the status quo and I doubt Gwyn is fully aware of what this involves. Gwyndolin might have a better idea but doesn't give a fuck about anyone beyond his family and is likely unaware of his fathers true fate which is why he lets you have the Lord Vessel and kill the other Lords. Gwyndolin only tries to kill you outright when you trespass. The rest is most likely filtering out the week. No point tasking a chump who can't get past two archers with killing an immortal Dragon for example. The rest of the things trying to kill you don't know what you're up to or know it means them dying which tends to be unpleasant.

The Lords want to maintain the power but have no real idea what the flame really is or that it involves them getting killed. None of them know that Gwyn is still alive, hence Gwyndolin protecting the Tomb.

Kaathe wants mankind to ascend which makes sense since he likes to be given humanity. The more powerful humans (and thus the Dark Soul) the better for him. To what end is unknown. He ain't trying to kill you.

Why is Gwyn still kicking about though? Dude is on fire!

He has a Lord Soul and a powerful one at that. The fire might be hurting him but it's not burning his body. This is magical fire that spews out souls, remember. It's burning up his Lord Soul. It's probably like throwing a dozen Redwoods onto a decent sized campfire. They'll burn up eventually but there's a vast amount of fuel to go through first.

Also, "Chosen Undead" doesn't seem to be anything actually special. It's just the random Undead whoo gets lucky enough to ring the bells. I think that the fact you hear other people ring the Gargoyle's Bell is meant to hint to you that you aren't the only one actually doing this. There are Chosen Undead all over the place.

At least that's my vague understanding. Lots of backstabbing and misinformation put about by the serpents. Don't trust mustache snakes.

#9 Edited by SunBroZak (851 posts) -

Also, "Chosen Undead" doesn't seem to be anything actually special. It's just the random Undead whoo gets lucky enough to ring the bells. I think that the fact you hear other people ring the Gargoyle's Bell is meant to hint to you that you aren't the only one actually doing this. There are Chosen Undead all over the place.

At least that's my vague understanding. Lots of backstabbing and misinformation put about by the serpents. Don't trust mustache snakes.

I subscribe to the theory that "Chosen Undead" is just something fabricated by the serpents to manipulate you into doing their bidding. There is no prophecy, they're just pulling a fast one over you.

#10 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (4445 posts) -

I see the fight against the lords as a journey for the chosen undead to prove his worthiness of succeeding Gwyn. They can't just let some random joe come in if his soul isn't powerful enough to fuel the flame.

#11 Posted by Popogeejo (573 posts) -

@themanwithnoplan:

If not testing worthiness it's probably a good way to build up a large amount of souls in one place/being so they have a good, long lasting man-log for the fire.

#12 Posted by Omega (819 posts) -

I always thought it would be interesting if Frampt and Kaathe were two heads of a larger creature like a Hydra. Effectively making them and the rest of the serpents seen in the dark ending the same creature. I don't know how it would affect the story but I just thought it was fun imagining if it was a giant creature in the depths of the planet with its infinite heads weaving throughout the world sowing misinformation and half truths to people creating chaos for its own motives.

#13 Posted by JackSukeru (5819 posts) -

I feel that Dark Souls 2 will probably have a story largely disconnected from the original, but if there was one thread between the two games I wish they kept it would be the Primordial Serpents. They could be different serpents with different motives for all I care, I just love the idea of having these self serving, mysterious and manipulative ancient creatures coming from deep beneath the surface world.

@omega said:

I always thought it would be interesting if Frampt and Kaathe were two heads of a larger creature like a Hydra. Effectively making them and the rest of the serpents seen in the dark ending the same creature. I don't know how it would affect the story but I just thought it was fun imagining if it was a giant creature in the depths of the planet with its infinite heads weaving throughout the world sowing misinformation and half truths to people creating chaos for its own motives.

That sounds really awesome too. Kinda reminds me of the Elder God in Legacy of Kain, manipulating events throughout the history of the world for its own purposes.

#14 Posted by Aetheldod (3344 posts) -

@golguin: I thought it was Gwyn's plan for you to succeed him (by killing him) and link the fire to extend the Age of Fire and Frampt is there to guide you? I obviously haven't read into much of the lore so when Gwyn fights you I interpreted it as he's ready to see if you are a worthy successor.

No it was Gwendolin´s plan to make you succedd his father

#15 Posted by Clonedzero (3742 posts) -

I'm not even convinced the chosen undead dies when he/she links the flame. I mean sure you catch on fire, but he's just standing there. Not falling over, not being burned and disintegrated away. Just sorta chilling in the middle of the fire like it aint no thang.

I mean Gwyn and his knights linked the flame a long time ago and they didnt die. Sure Gwyn hollowed (or not? i dont really know what his deal is) but he's certainly not dead. Why would the chosen undead die?

I didn't see the chosen undead die in that ending, thus he didn't. New lord of flame imo.

#16 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (537 posts) -

I'm pretty sure it was a test. A "You must be this badass to succeed Gwyn" type of thing.

As for Gwyn being alive but also the fuel for the flame, giving his soul to the flame to extend his age of fire left him as a husk. Basically a hollow.

#17 Posted by AdequatelyPrepared (150 posts) -

Also, "Chosen Undead" doesn't seem to be anything actually special. It's just the random Undead whoo gets lucky enough to ring the bells. I think that the fact you hear other people ring the Gargoyle's Bell is meant to hint to you that you aren't the only one actually doing this. There are Chosen Undead all over the place.

At least that's my vague understanding. Lots of backstabbing and misinformation put about by the serpents. Don't trust mustache snakes.

They look more like sock puppets to me. I actually heard that hearing the bells means that someone else playing the game has just slain the gargoyles and rung the bell themselves, yet another super neat online mp feature in Dark Souls.

Thanks a lot for the responses all, I'm actually beginning to make sense out of the plot now, and am further excited for Dark Souls II, actually curious to see how the world will continue (I'm assuming it's set in Lordran again).

#18 Posted by cmblasko (1008 posts) -

@omega said:

I always thought it would be interesting if Frampt and Kaathe were two heads of a larger creature like a Hydra. Effectively making them and the rest of the serpents seen in the dark ending the same creature. I don't know how it would affect the story but I just thought it was fun imagining if it was a giant creature in the depths of the planet with its infinite heads weaving throughout the world sowing misinformation and half truths to people creating chaos for its own motives.

I like this.

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