(SPOILERS!) Four Kings on New Game+?

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#1 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

So.. yeah. I have a bit of a complaint about this fight, and I also may need some feedback, because this [censored] is just ...awful.

First Run: Walk in with Quelaag's Furysword+5. Not too difficult at first, but by the time I have the first king at HALF health, boom. Another one spawns. By the time I have ONE dead, there are 2 more. This cycle repeats.

Second Run: Thinking it was just a run of bad luck or poor strategy on my part, I go in again with the same weapon, and I'm more akeen to my dodge rolling in order to avoid the blade. Regardless, I still die due to the same problem I had previously.

Third Run: So now I think it's the swords fault.. even though UNLESS Four Kings are resistant to Fire, then there is no reason that it should be a bad weapon. I switch to my Lightning Uchigatana+5, and run in. It does more damage per swing, but it's slower; therefore the DPS doesn't balance itself out. I die once again, due to the same problems mentioned above.

Fourth Run: Same thing as second run, just with my Lightning Uchigatana+5. I also make an attempt to equip my Crystal Halberd+5 (brand new; repaired) and cast Magic Weapon on it. Still nothing.

*So now the question is, what am I doing wrong? I've made numerous attempts with half-decent or REALLY good weapons, and yet they continously rock my [censored] up. If anyone could pass along some advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

#2 Posted by Bleeble (95 posts) -

If you're having trouble summon Beatrice outside the entrance she will help you.

#3 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

Say fuck it and get the crystal shield. 

#4 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

with the Four Kings? How do I summon Beatrice in that fight? I only ever helped her with the Moonlight Butterfly. Are there any other sequences I need?

#5 Edited by connerthekewlkid (1803 posts) -

i assume your know that the closer you get to them the less damage there attacks they do?

#6 Posted by wsninja (65 posts) -

Iron Flesh + Two Hander?

#7 Posted by YI_Orange (1128 posts) -

No clue. On my second playthrough I had on mostly(if not all) Havels with Quelaag's Furysword +5. I held it in two hands for more damage, and circle strafed and slashed, healed if I needed to. They couldn't really stagger me nothing was ever interrupted.

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#8 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

- I've tried Iron Flesh, but not with a two-handed weapon. Could you possibly suggest me one to use?

- Yeah, but do you also realize that I'm dodge rolling to avoid their attacks completely? If I dodge roll enough, I'll end up behind them, and that's where the second Four King will be. Then I get double-teamed and die.

#9 Edited by Bleeble (95 posts) -

@Pieman51: As long as you summoned her for the Moonlight Butterfly fight she will help you with the Four Kings. The summon is right behind the tower with the fog gate to the four kings, it is on the right side I believe .

#10 Posted by connerthekewlkid (1803 posts) -

@Pieman51: if i remember i just double handed my lightning uchigaitana +5 and used iron flesh and whacked away and never took enough damage to die

#11 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

- Wow really? I didn't think it'd be on the ground. Figured it'd be outside of the gate, or in the stairwell.

- Really? Hm.. It usually takes me around 8 - 11 swings with my two-handed Uchigatana to actually kill a single King on NG+. I suppose I could combine Iron Flesh with that, but i'm not TOO confident in my ability to actually keep the second king off of me.

#12 Posted by connerthekewlkid (1803 posts) -

@Pieman51: i also have a backup Divine mace +5 and occult mace +5 for Certain areas and they swing just as fast as a katana so maybe upgrade one of those to do whatever damage the four kings take

#13 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

- The best divine weapon I have is a +5 Divine Falchion.. which was a bad idea, but I couldn't think of another weapon to make divine.. other than the morning star.. but I've seen videos of just how awful that weapon is with a divine enchant.. ESPECIALLY on NG+

#14 Posted by mosespippy (4032 posts) -

Don't waste time dodging. Kings spawn on one minute intervals. All your time should be spent on doing damage so that you don't have to face two kings at once. Get armour with high poise or use the wolf ring, get close and wail on him. You can cast a magic defence (I forget the name of the spell) if needed but it'll run out during the second king so you'll need to cast it again. If your poise is high enough and you are close enough then you can eat attacks while healing.

#15 Posted by wariomona (56 posts) -

I haven't played Dark Souls since the massive pyro-nerfing, "You Defeated"-destroying patch. Does iron flesh still work against these guys like it used to?

#16 Posted by Bleeble (95 posts) -

@wariomona: Nope.

#17 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

- So.. Greater Magic Shield? I think that's the only spell I can use to protect myself apart from Iron Flesh.. but then I'm essentially just a tortoise. Also, I can never do enough DPS to kill a single king before a second one spawns regardless. I know there's a better weapon, but I don't have any other well-upgraded weapons.

#18 Posted by Bleeble (95 posts) -

@Pieman51: You could try to burn them as fast as you can with a strong 2-hander (Lightning Claymore +5 or something else, it will depend on your strength) and Power Within.

#19 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

- Wait, so Iron Flesh doesn't work on him anymore? :L

My strength is at 34 and wouldn't Power Within have an opposite effect than what I want? I know it SLOWLY drains my health in place of more strength and endurance.. but wouldn't they just kill me twice as fast?

#20 Posted by mosespippy (4032 posts) -

@Pieman51: I was using a 2 handed Black Knight Halberd +5 and could DPS enough that the first king would die after the second spawned but before it reached us. I doubt you have 32 strength though if you are using the uchi and quelag's. Neither of those weapons can be buffed either, unless maybe pine resin works.

#21 Posted by mason (258 posts) -

I'm not saying anything new, but know that this is a total race against the clock where your damage-per-second determines if you win or lose.The second, third, fourth, fifth (and possibly 6th) kings will only appear at specific timed intervals, so if you can kill each one quickly, you'll never have to deal with more than 2 kings.

Easier said than done, but that's the principle.

In my experience, heavy armor/weapon builds relying on shields and defense don't work well since the battle really saps your stamina, which means taking longer to kill each King. Iron skin can give you more staying power, but still slows you down. So you can still get overwhelmed.

Better to save your stamina for dodging and attacking. The best way is to strip down to below 25% encumbrance, learn to dodge their attacks, and focus on damaging as quickly as possible. The priority is to maximize damage. In that respect, a fast weapon, spells such as "Power Within", weapon buffs and 2-handing your weapon can be keys to victory.

#22 Posted by cyraxible (682 posts) -

You should try putting on some heavy ass armor, getting in close and wailing away at them, the closer you are the less damage they do. It works pretty well for me.

If I'm not mistaken they're weakest to fire damage.

#23 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

- I already tried pine resin on both, doesn't work. My strength is 34 though.. I wanted it to use the Greatshield of Artorias. :P

So.. you used a Black Knight Halberd +5? If I may ask, what item do you need to upgrade that, and can it be buffed? :L

#24 Edited by Bleeble (95 posts) -

@Pieman51: Iron Flesh works it just is nowhere near as good as it was before the patch.

You will be slowly using health, but you will be dealing 40% more damage and the lower your Pyromancy flame the less health you will lose from Power Within.

#25 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

- Already tried that strategy. I'm not bad at dodging their attacks, I just can't get enough DPS in before the second king spawns, and I end up getting double teamed. =/

- Like the other suggestions? Hmmm.. they're weak to fire as well? I don't know about that.. my lightning uchi did more damage than my furysword.

- Could you tell me what you mean by Iron Flesh not being AS useful? What made it so bad? Also, I heard that the PC edition fixed that glitch with Power Within where your higher pyromancy flame would make you take more damage. My PF is at +13 to be more specific.

#26 Posted by Karkarov (2981 posts) -

If you are really looking to just brutally own them.... get a chaos zewihander +5 with a 10 humanity stack or higher and two hand it. Trust me, they will fall down like a house of cards.

#27 Posted by cyraxible (682 posts) -

Yeah, this fight is all about constant damage output.

The furysword scales with humanity so if you don't have 10 soft humanity you're not maximizing the damage on it.

Also, don't follow the advice of summoning Beatrice. In NG+ the health increase on the boss from having a summon in there with you is too much a detriment.

#28 Posted by j0lter (225 posts) -

I just walked in there with my Queelag's Fury Sword and full Havel's and wrecked them. Just have to ignore the other kinds and focus on the one. I only got hit by the occasional swing from any other kings.

#29 Posted by Bleeble (95 posts) -

@Pieman51: I don't know the exact percentages, but before the patch Four Kings would deal around 50 damage with IF on (with heavy armor).

#30 Posted by mosespippy (4032 posts) -

@Pieman51: It takes 10 Twinkling Titanite and 10000 souls to fully upgrade it. I've read that Black Knight weapons can't be buffed but I also remember reading that the Halberd can. Usually anything that doesn't do elemental damage and isn't a dragon or boss weapon can be buffed. Maybe I'll load up my save and check if it can be buffed. I'm not sure I have the faith or intelligence to use any buffs though.

#31 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

- How do I scale a weapon to be chaotic? What item/NPC do I need to speak or interact with? >_<

- I know, it's probably best for me to farm more humanity from the rats in the depths.. but still, what is that? An extra 40 or so damage? I doubt seeing Beatrice as a detriment either.. considering that she literally took care of the whole Moonlight Butterfly for me. I guess I could take your word for it though.

#32 Posted by mosespippy (4032 posts) -

@Pieman51: The Chaos Ember sits in a pool of lava in the demon ruins down by all the Taurus Demons. I was able to grab it without the appropriate ring by wearing my best fire resistant gear, the fire resistant ring and casting flash sweat then sprinting for it and accepting that I'd die once I picked it up. It's not far into the lava. Then talk to the Blacksmith in the Catacombs.

#33 Posted by cyraxible (682 posts) -

@Pieman51: Four Kings NG+ is one of the hardest fights in the game. The health increase they get from having Beatrice there is so large that it's unlikely that you'll be able to do enough damage to keep them manageable. It's about 75 damage increased so it's worth going for. Even if it was 40 why scoff at more damage?

#34 Posted by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

- Aww, the blacksmith in the catacombs?! That blacksmith is such a pain to get to.. especially since the only bonfire I can warp to there is the one in Gravlord Nito's room. I think that's the only one anyways..

#35 Edited by mosespippy (4032 posts) -

@Pieman51: On the console version you can only teleport to Anor Londo, Firelink Shrine and the bonfires near covenants. Apparently there are more in the PC version. I didn't find getting to that blacksmith too difficult once you reach the bonfire behind the fake wall.

#36 Posted by mason (258 posts) -

@Pieman51: That Catacombs Blacksmith ain't that tricky to reach. There are shortcuts to get to him in under a 60 seconds...if you know where to fall. Once you nail the pattern, it's easy to repeat. Then just homeward bone out of there.

I'm sure Youtube has some runs that show you how to reach him without much fighting.

#37 Posted by MiniPato (2720 posts) -

I don't know about new game +, but on my first time I just tanked the damage with a full set of havel's armor and iron flesh and wacked away with a chaos claymore. Havel's armor will make you super slow, but its poise is good enough so you won't be stunned as much from his attacks.

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#38 Edited by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

I see. Thanks for all the tips guys. Next time I make a run through fighting the four kings, I will be trying:

Power Within, Iron Flesh, Chaos Claymore+5, Black Knight Halberd+5, Heavy Armor/Wolf Ring, and a Lightning Zweihander+5 (wasn't suggested, but thought it could do some decent damage).

I'll certainly also try a mix of the bunch and come back to this forum to inform you guys of how well it went. As for now, I need to be signing off, so thanks again for the help everyone. :)

#39 Posted by Karkarov (2981 posts) -

@Pieman51 said:

- Aww, the blacksmith in the catacombs?! That blacksmith is such a pain to get to.. especially since the only bonfire I can warp to there is the one in Gravlord Nito's room. I think that's the only one anyways..

Actually once you know the level and open up the route it doesn't take long to power your way to him from firelink. There are actually a few short cut drops you can take that save you alot of time and once the necromancers are dead the skeletons are far less annoying. Chaos weapons are the best in the game though not only because they have fire damage but they also scale in relation to how much humanity you have on you. So you have to maintain a large humanity stack but if you can do it they are downright brutal weapons.

#40 Posted by nitronomicon (52 posts) -

I'll say this: the advice so far is pretty right on the money. It is in fact a race against the clock. The latest patch on the consoles nerfed Iron Flesh so that is out. It makes you too slow anyway. Power within works well as it boosts your damage; just be sure to use an unupgraded pyro glove. Do not summon Beatrice!!! She is not helpful and like other people have stated her presence gives the 4 Kings an hp boost. I find the best weapons against them tend to be +14 or 15 with buffs. I used a +15 Balder Side Sword buffed with great magic weapon, power within, the crest shield (good magic resist), and the cloranthy ring (you will need all of stamina you can get). Run to them asap and get close. Heal when needed and always be sure to keep swinging your weapon when the King goes into his death animation. The game will still allow your hits to register even while the King is dissolving and this allows you to take off hp from the King's total bar at the bottom. In some cases, with practice, you can reduce the King's hp so quickly that the fight becomes the 3 Kings.

#41 Posted by Ashler (95 posts) -

Heavy Armor + Wolf Ring + a very hard hitting weapon. Kindle the Firelink shrine bonfire to +20.

When fighting don't try to dodge attacks, just keep hitting with your two handed weapon + Flask up when needed. You should be fine.

#42 Posted by Fallen189 (4940 posts) -

Get a 2h weapon, and rush them using the 2h mode of that, grass crest shield on your back, with the best armor you have. Dont be afraid to use a humanity to heal

#43 Edited by Pieman51 (98 posts) -

Thanks for all the advice guys, but it finally pulled through about 3 days ago (forgot to update; but I was busy pvping in between).

I went in with Witch Beatrice (regrettably) using a Black Knight Halberd+5 with Power Within (two-handed) and I kicked the living [censored] outta them. Around 180 damage per swing, which levelled out to 2 full combos killing a single king and the cycle repeated.

Regardless of the comments informing me that Witch Beatrice was more of a bad idea to the player in that fight, she was not as bad as she was made out to be. Maybe I got lucky, but she spammed her sorceries, and combined with my BKH+5 combo's, we won the fight.

Long story short... I don't think I'll be NG'ing again.. because I don't want an additional 9% difficulty the next time I go through. The Four Kings are my bane.. but if I do make a return, I will likely be using a strength-scaling weapon with Power Within and (hopefully) Magic Weapon/Great Magic Weapon.

Once again, thank you all for the advice. I look forward to helping other players with the Four Kings now ;D (If I can get summoned. XD)

#44 Posted by Z3RO180 (230 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man:I have a question i was going to frampt and feel in to the firelink alter and then i plaved the lord vessiel then frampt dissapeared i did not talk to him before i feel in. So is there any way i can get him back on this playthrough and can i join the dark wriaths because i did not speak to him before i placed the lord vessiel

#45 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@Z3RO180

@The_Laughing_Man:I have a question i was going to frampt and feel in to the firelink alter and then i plaved the lord vessiel then frampt dissapeared i did not talk to him before i feel in. So is there any way i can get him back on this playthrough and can i join the dark wriaths because i did not speak to him before i placed the lord vessiel

That I am not sure about. I never joined them.
#46 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

@Pieman51: Congrats! Four Kings can be a real bitch.

@Bleeble said:

@Pieman51: As long as you summoned her for the Moonlight Butterfly fight she will help you with the Four Kings. The summon is right behind the tower with the fog gate to the four kings, it is on the right side I believe .

Kinda off-topic, but sentences like this is what I love about Dark Souls. The naming conventions and such all sound so... poetic.

Considering going back to my NG+ I left a few months ago. After over 100 hours I needed a break, but now it's been so long I'm not sure if I'll survive there. And I probably should pull Demon's Souls outta my backlog and play through that.

#47 Edited by mason (258 posts) -

@Z3RO180: Nope, Both Kaathe and Frampt hate you now. Kind of pain if you wanted to try Darkwraiths, but missing out on Frampt is no big deal. There's better ways to get souls. Though I'll admit he's good for breaking down Titanite Chunks into Large shards (which are harder to come by until Oolacile).

There's 3 ways you can deal with the primordial serpents.

1. Talk to Frampt after getting the lordvessel, and he'll stay your buddy forever, but Kaathe will never appear in the Abyss.

2. Ignore Frampt, bring the lordvessel to the Abyss, defeat the 4 kings, and Kaathe will appear. Frampt will hate you as a traitor.

3. Just jump in the hole yourself. By doing so, you're telling the serpents that you have no need for their stinkin' prophecies. So they'll both hate you.

#48 Posted by Turambar (6675 posts) -

@Bleeble said:

If you're having trouble summon Beatrice outside the entrance she will help you.

I doubt this is going to be useful for the OP, but just so everyone knows, when you summon someone to help you for a boss fight, the boss also gains more hp. In other words, your ally either need to be a good source of damage or be a good distraction. I don't know just how much of a secondary target Beatrice ends up being, but I know that she does not pull her weight in dps.

#49 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

GET UP IN THEIR FUCKING GRILL

POWER WITHIN

TWO HAND THAT SHIT

SWING LIKE A LUMBERJACK

ROLL

ROLL

ROLL GOD DAMMIT

KEEP SWINGING AS THEY'RE DYING, IT STILL DOES DAMAGE

SWING HARDER MOTHERFUCKER

#50 Posted by Dark (360 posts) -

@Pieman51: I have a few simple words, 2 hand Black Knight Greataxe, high poise and armor = win.

Its a bastard of a fight, iron skin isn't as useful on it as it once was. I got to newgame ++ with the Black Knight Greataxe, it swings REALLY quick, scales nice and hits really hard.

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