Sweet Jesus I need some Help - Ornstein and Smough

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#1 Posted by STORMP00PER (71 posts) -

Duders I need some help please!

First a little context, I picked up Dark Souls when it first came out on the Xbox 360. I had never played Demon Souls but I heard all the hype and decided to give it a whirl. I loved it from the very beginning right up until Ornstein and Smough (the dicks). After repeated attempts and side tracks I eventually stopped trying to beat them and gave up on it.

Every few months since then I keep meaning to go back to it, but of course never did. Then I see it on the Steam sale for a fiver and say what the hell now's the time to get back in. Really been enjoying it and getting over that initial hump etc etc but then I come up against Ornstein and Smough again and I'm getting tore up all over again. I really really want to see the rest of the game so please if you have any advice - lay it on me!

Check out my current stats below if that helps

Cheers Duders

Here is my current equipment

here is my main weapon

#2 Edited by StrainedEyes (1334 posts) -

Do not use the Drake sword anymore. You're at the point of the game where it will have diminishing returns. Focus on upgrading a new weapon (whatever you prefer, spears are good).

Summon people to help you, too. There's an NPC summon for the sun-bro on of the staircases in the room leading to the boss fight, and I never had much trouble finding another player to summon. Check near the bonfire and near the steps to the boss fight.

Watch Rorie beat them solo: http://www.twitch.tv/frailgesture/c/2483568, you might see some techniques.

#3 Edited by SoldierG654342 (1822 posts) -

You're playing on PC right? I'm nearing at point and am at lvl 40 so I could help you. You may be able to summon someone from here. Also, you should have replaced the Drake Sword by now. The Dragon Swords are only useful in low stat builds.

#4 Posted by falserelic (5407 posts) -

Don't worry you'll survive, the holy spirit will guide you...

#5 Edited by gaminghooligan (1483 posts) -

Use the columns! Make sure you are constantly distancing yourself from Smough. Summon Solaire.

#6 Posted by TAFAE (153 posts) -

If you don't care about which set of items you get, you should go ahead and kill Ornstein first, since Smough's amped up form is much easier to deal with. The pillars are your friend in that fight, even if they get broken. I'm pretty sure that none of either dude's attacks can hit you through the full diameter of a pillar. I think that lightning works pretty well on Smough but isn't great for Ornstein, so if you have any gold pine resin, I'd break that out once you kill Ornstein. Also, do what @strainedeyes said.

#7 Posted by SirPsychoSexy (1331 posts) -

Looks like you need more damage. I would recommend picking either strength or dexterity and sticking with it, and then upgrade a decent weapon to normal +10 or as high as you can so the weapon will scale with your stats. However that might take a bit to get to a decent level of damage because of how you spec'd.

Alternatively the highest damage you can achieve without using stat scaling is with a lightning upgraded weapon. So if you don't want to wait until your strength or dex is higher just pick any weapon really and max it in lightning as high as you can.

#8 Posted by wemibelec90 (1839 posts) -

I would suggest killing Ornstein first; he is much harder as the second boss than Smough is. He is much more aggressive and chases you. Using the pillars to keep Smough away while smacking Ornstein will help. When you have to fight "super" Smough, staying close to him is probably safest, unless he jumps straight up; then you need to run away. Blocking won't help with most of his attacks, especially his charge move. Dodging the attacks would be preferable.

I also noticed you are wearing heavy armor and most likely focusing on blocking. Dark Souls is a MUCH easier game once you learn to dodge moves with rolls instead of blocking. It is more dangerous but prevents you from taking any damage whatsoever, if you take the time to learn the boss patterns. It might be too much to do now, but it is something to keep in mind if you'd like to get better at the game. Some later bosses are very hard to block effectively, as they attack so fast and so hard that your stamina will be gone in the blink of an eye. Note that you would have to wear under 25% of your equip burden to do this.

#9 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

Chose either Ornstein or Smaug. Stay close. Remember to drop your guard to recover stamina when you can. Beat the shit out of the guy chose, then the beat up second one. I naturally killed the small guy first I believe. Whatever gives me Ornstein's armor as reward anyways.

I remember it having been a rather easy fight. Took me like one or two tries. Kinda like beating the Tower Knight in Demon's Souls for the first time. All I was lacking was the balls to dance the dance up close and personal, but since the Tower Knight tought me that lesson the hard way, Smaug and Ornstein were a piece of cake.

My advice. Play with more balls. It almost always works, even in real life.

#10 Edited by Lyisa (393 posts) -

A good technique, although it draws the fight out a bit, is to strafe backwards counter-clockwise. This lets you look for openings to the person you want to kill first easier and lets you study their moves better.

Smough is much easier to kill in the second phase than ornstein, so as others have said kill ornstein first. Ornstein, weirdly enough, closes the gap on you and opens up more than smough during the duo fight.

#11 Posted by Demoskinos (15165 posts) -

Yeah, cut that Drake Sword loose. People give that thing way to much credit. Its good for the first area around the Gargoyles but soon after it becomes pretty useless since it doesn't scale.

#12 Edited by wjb (1697 posts) -

It was the only fight where I summoned a NPC. Having someone else to distract helped a lot.

#13 Edited by Deadlydog (168 posts) -

Drake Sword promotes bad habits so i suggest not using it, You need another weapon that is upgraded. Sen's Fortress is actually the point where you should have dropped it.

#14 Posted by Clonedzero (4196 posts) -

Yup, ditch that shitty drake sword.

#15 Posted by leftie68 (215 posts) -

Don't know what to tell you. You definitely need to upgrade your weapon, however your current spec build leave little to upgrade to. If you can get your hands on a black knight sword, and upgrade your dex and strength a bit more, that might be the way to go. I think you are too early in the game to attempt to get a jagged ghost sword, and that would require some farming.

#16 Posted by Shadowjester (93 posts) -
  • You could pick up a lightning spear in sen's fortress. It's a good damage dealer right after the drake sword.
  • Getting Solaire the NPC or a human helper would be best. Solaire can take a beating but really doesn't help do as much damage as another player will.
  • Soul Spears picked up from either of the 2 Mage NPCs work good for Smough and Ornstein
  • Fight them one at a time as which ever one you don't kill first gets all his health back after you kill the first.
  • Upgrade your armor but don't wear such heavy armor as you can't do at least a medium roll.
  • Get good at switching from one handing a weapon with your shield to two handing it to strike and then get out of range and back to single handing to use your shield for protection. You'll do more damage with each strike and as long as you are rolling medium you should be able to dodge their attacks.
  • I always had the grass crest shield because of it's stamina building affects. You could go down and get that. It will help you to attack more and of course recover faster. It's in dark root forest next to a cliff near the bon fire at the bottom.
  • At this point in the game you could also go into the catacombs with a divine weapon and take on pinwheel to be able to get the rite of kindling. Which will allow you to carry up to 15 estus flasks.
  • You should also at this point have at least +1 estus flasks but could also pick up the firekeepers spirit in blight town and in anor londo to get +3 estus flasks. To heal more with each flask.

After looking at that list I realize I have spent an embarrassingly large amount of time with this game. :) If you can't beat them yet go after some of these other pieces of equipment and then come back. You'll get them eventually.

#17 Posted by jimmyfenix (3753 posts) -

@strainedeyes: Did rorie have a reason not to summon solaire or some other dudes ? it would have been easier with help :D

#18 Posted by Legion_ (1556 posts) -

Soul level is a little low. At that point in the game, I was already 75 or so. Yeah, I tend to grind a lot.

#19 Edited by colorbrandon (166 posts) -

Ditch the drake sword like everyone here has said, but you dont even need to.

Equip a better ring, I recommend ring of favor and protection instead of blue tearstone ring. If you did not kill Lautrec, you can go into painted world and get the Xanthous head piece and trade it to snuggly. You have 4 attunment slots. Go 2x great combustion, 1 combustion, 1 great fireball. Summon solaire to begin the fight. Have him tank Smough. Use great combustion on on Ornstein while blocking to kill him fast. The rest is easy. If you have even +15 pyro flame (your flame is not ascended, which would be a good idea to go do), Ornstein should go down within 10 casts of great combusion.

#20 Posted by Nicked (258 posts) -

No shortage of good advice here, but after finding a new weapon, upgrading it, and leveling up the stat that scales with that weapon, you should be in a better position. If you need weapon suggestions, the Longsword (or Balder Side Sword if you're lucky with drops) is an excellent DEX weapon and the Reinforced Club is an excellent strength weapon.

Do not put any more points into endurance, just VIT and either STR or DEX depending on your weapon.

A quick way to get souls can be to pop back down to Sen's and put your summon sign outside the Iron Golem fight to help others (or you could help people with O&S). There is an elevator shortcut in Sen's (if you didn't unlock it) so you can also get back to Andre the Blacksmith pretty easily and go do other stuff if you want.

For the actual fight, take things very, very slowly. In the first phase you will often only be able to get one hit in before needing to block or roll away. There's no time limit so just be patient, strike when you can, and then run away to reset the situation.

#21 Posted by Rorie (2987 posts) -

@strainedeyes: Did rorie have a reason not to summon solaire or some other dudes ? it would have been easier with help :D

Mostly I was trying to do it solo before getting help. I got smashed the first time, but I got pretty lucky with the second run. I usually try to take on these bosses solo before going for support. It's more of an accomplishment that way, I think.

Staff
#22 Edited by pweidman (2364 posts) -

Grind some.

Aquire new Weapon. I liked the Zweihander, and you can get it pretty easy in the cemetery(near Firelink Shrine), iirc.

Summon if necessary...really helped me.

#23 Posted by mlarrabee (3064 posts) -

Get those fireballs onto Ornstein. Swap your Drake for something quicker. If you picked up the Lightning Spear in Sen's Fortress it's useful, plus Smough's weak to it.

Decide if you want the Leo Ring (boots counter damage by 40%); you'll have to kill Ornstein last to get it, which is harder.

Try to keep locked on to Ornstein, even while fighting Smough. He's too quick, and if you can manage to always keep a pillar or Smough between you two, he'll find it harder to do his awful dash move. If you want to kill Ornstein last, ensure he isn't preparing to charge; wait for Smough to plop on the ground and slip in with something fast and sharp. For most of the battle I maintained distance, keeping an eye on both opponents. Calling in Solaire helped a lot on NG (didn't bring him on NG+), but it is tricky avoiding invasion while running to the fog door.

#24 Posted by STORMP00PER (71 posts) -

Wow ok guys,

So it sounds like the main things are:

- Swap the drake sword out for something better

- grind for a bit to get my stats up

and obviously like @seppli says - 'play with more balls'

Sweet - cheers Duders, I knew you wouldn't let me down! Time to go hit the wiki to see what weapons look good...

@soldierg654342 yup on PC

#25 Edited by colorbrandon (166 posts) -

@stormp00per: Equipment > Soul Level, always. It's why a soul level 1 run is trivial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSxCmKMkpzg

This is all it takes.

Also, after watching that youtube clip, he plays pretty sloppy too. You with Giant's armor can do this ez peasy, mac & cheesy.

#26 Edited by gaminghooligan (1483 posts) -

@pweidman: here's a question. Would you recommend Zweihander over a Raw Bastard Sword +2. I saw on wiki that the damage upgrade is better and I have the titanite for it. First time through and I just beat O & S.

#27 Posted by kerse (2118 posts) -

@gaminghooligan: Well bastard sword is a regular greatsword and zweihander is an ultra greatsword, so it will hit a lot harder, but be a lot slower. I really like zweihander though once you get used to it. Also you shouldn't go raw except at the very beginning of the game, it gives higher damage at first, but once you can get higher stats it falls behind because raw lowers stat scaling by a ton.

#28 Posted by CornBREDX (6059 posts) -

Ya, you need a better weapon. Thats a little late in the game to still be using the drake sword still.

Also, I would recommend killing the skinny one first. The fat guy I found easier to deal with when he enrages.

Other than that its all about evasion. Its a pretty evasion heavy fight.

Worse comes to worse I recommend bringing in some help. If I recall I had one other person and that's when I beat them.

#29 Posted by gaminghooligan (1483 posts) -

@kerse: Alright cool, thanks for the advice, guess it's time to head back to Firelink and get it. I personally love the way the characters look when they hold great-swords, so I was planning on grabbing as many as possible to check out anyhow. Good to know about the raw, I'll most likely downgrade and try to make that bastard sword into something else.

#30 Edited by colorbrandon (166 posts) -

@gaminghooligan said:

@kerse: Alright cool, thanks for the advice, guess it's time to head back to Firelink and get it. I personally love the way the characters look when they hold great-swords, so I was planning on grabbing as many as possible to check out anyhow. Good to know about the raw, I'll most likely downgrade and try to make that bastard sword into something else.

Just as an FYI. The greatswords and ultra greatswords have all been nerfed since vanilla dark souls. They used to have faster swing speeds/higher damage (for elemental at least). If you want to try a greatsword, i recommend the "greatsword." You can buy it at sens fortress. It has the highest potential damage R2 attack in the game.

#31 Edited by gaminghooligan (1483 posts) -

@colorbrandon: huh, I actually bought that at one point I guess, because I totally have one. I feel like I'll be spending time tonight standing around Firelink swinging swords seeing which ones I like the best (and which one will be best to use smashing Lautrec's smug face in)

#32 Posted by colorbrandon (166 posts) -
#33 Edited by gaminghooligan (1483 posts) -

@colorbrandon: shit.

Edit: Wait at firelink or when I use the eye to invade him? Because he left firelink after I climbed out of blighttown

#34 Posted by Aetheldod (3736 posts) -

@gaminghooligan: At the room before O&S the eye vibrates (it tells you on a small pop up on the sccreen) then you simply use the eye and you will be transported to where Lutrec is ...... also you can fight him after O&S if I recall correctly. When fighting against Lautrec consentrate on killing him fast ... ignore the other npcs!!!

#35 Edited by gaminghooligan (1483 posts) -

@aetheldod: Yeah, I figured I might need to kill him quick since I can't heal but man that spear guy is ANNOYING. I was hoping for the Benny Hill glitch that @rorie had but no luck.

#36 Edited by OneKillWonder_ (1836 posts) -

I would heavily suggest using an upgraded spear against them. How I eventually beat them was by leading them around the room in a clockwise manner (or counter-clockwise, it doesn't really matter) and slowly dealing damage to them. This way they can't really flank you and it gives you plenty of time to recover from their attacks. It takes awhile to do but it's the safest way I found.

Or you can do what I did last time and try and get some guys to help you. Me and two others took them out in about 2 minutes last time I played. No one will blame you for using help. Those are some tough motherfuckers. I gave up on the game once I got to the Tomb of the Giants.

#37 Posted by supamon (1334 posts) -

If this is your first play through then kill ornstein last. You'll thank me for me when you have to do it again on your 2nd play though with killing Smough last.

#38 Edited by SoldierG654342 (1822 posts) -

@gaminghooligan said:

@pweidman: here's a question. Would you recommend Zweihander over a Raw Bastard Sword +2. I saw on wiki that the damage upgrade is better and I have the titanite for it. First time through and I just beat O & S.

Only use Raw if you are in dire need of damage early. The normal upgrade path always beats Raw in the end in both damadge and scaling. Zweihander vs Bastard Sword is all a mater of preference. Zweihander in slow but stagger most anything, while the Bastard Sword is faster with less stopping power. However, if you want to use a Bastard Sword-style weapon, there's no reason to choose the Bastard Sword over the Claymore (in the Undead Parish/Burg behind the Hellkite Wyvern by the Sunlight Alter). More damage and a better moveset.

#39 Posted by Toxin066 (3329 posts) -

If you defeat Smaugh first and have to fight Super Saiyan Ornstein, try getting in close - there's a certain distance where you can hit him, but he can't hit you. Right up on him. Attack until you're low on stamina, roll back away from him, recover, wait for him to attack, and then go in and abuse him some more.

#40 Posted by gaminghooligan (1483 posts) -

@soldierg654342: went for the Claymore. It is exactly what I was looking for, because the thing I liked about the Bastard Sword was the speed of the swing. Good call!

#41 Posted by FirePrince (1767 posts) -

I would personally do some other stuff, like visit some new areas, beat optional bosses, or something along the lines of that, and level up your Pyromancy glove - I finished over 50% of the game relying solely on that. It works wonders on all bosses other than Queelag, but you are past her.

#42 Posted by Tackchevy (266 posts) -

You've got the best advice all here. No more endurance please, ever. Level up your armor as best you can, same with shield. Ditch drake sword. I my two runs through the game I used lightning spear (Sen's Fortress) and a magic longsword. In your case, bastard sword + 10 or longsword + 10might be the appropriate goal, or really maybe just spear + 10, as you're probably really into blocking, like me.

For fighting these dudes, keep your guard up and constantly rotate around the room, locked onto Ornstein, backing away from them constantly and keeping the shattered columns between you and them. Peck away at Ornstein, especially when he jams on a column. He'll eventually die, then Smough will power up. Keep constantly backing away, careful not to back yourself into a corner or get disoriented. Peck at him when he does the butt bomb attack or gets jammed on a column.

Victory shall surely ensue.

#43 Posted by Snarkasaur (27 posts) -

Solaire pretty much won that fight for me. He keeps one distracted so you can focus on killing the other. The super forms are pretty easy if you know the pattern and aren't getting thwapped from behind.

#44 Posted by WarlordPayne (706 posts) -

You don't need to abandon your heavy armor and shield in favor of rolling as some people have recommended. Ornstein and Smough are actually really easy, if you kill Ornstein first, with a blocking character. You will want a greatshield though, regular shields aren't good enough if your main form of defense is blocking.

#45 Edited by MB (13139 posts) -

I've been stuck on this for a couple of hours. These guys either kill me within seconds of getting into the room, or I use all my estus flasks killing one of them and then the other one wrecks me. I even took a break from trying yesterday and went and got a Claymore up to Divine +5, have Lightning Spear, still can't do it. I'm not great at dodging yet and when I wear heavier armor I'm too slow, so it seems like I'ms screwed either way. I guess I have to go somewhere and farm humanity and then hope for some help or try to summon Astaire, I guess.

Having to leave the zone completely and travel a long way just to farm some humanity seems like a poor design choice.

Moderator
#46 Edited by Ravelle (1413 posts) -

Yeah the moment you enter the room you need to dodge right away/.

Focus on Smoug first, just keep whacking him and dodge his butt and hammer attacks. Play careful and patient, don't get greedy and rush. Ornstein isn't so bad since his attacks are pretty straight forward.

If you don't mind getting help, get Solaire or other players to help you.

#47 Posted by golguin (4054 posts) -

@mb said:

I've been stuck on this for a couple of hours. These guys either kill me within seconds of getting into the room, or I use all my estus flasks killing one of them and then the other one wrecks me. I even took a break from trying yesterday and went and got a Claymore up to Divine +5, have Lightning Spear, still can't do it. I'm not great at dodging yet and when I wear heavier armor I'm too slow, so it seems like I'ms screwed either way. I guess I have to go somewhere and farm humanity and then hope for some help or try to summon Astaire, I guess.

Having to leave the zone completely and travel a long way just to farm some humanity seems like a poor design choice.

You should probably post your soul level and stats so we know what kind of built you're working with. If you're using a divine claymore and heavy armor you probably dropped some points into faith and strength. How much damage do you deal per hit?

If you keep running out of Estus you can make your way back to Firelink and go into the Catacombs. You'll be able to permanently kill the skeletons with your divine claymore and pick up the rite of kindling (up to 20 Estus from bonfire) from the easiest boss in the game. You'll have pinwheel dead in less than 10 seconds.

Dodging Smough and Ornstein is essential for a light dex build, but if you don't know how to dodge their attacks you can always go full Havel and try tanking them.

#48 Posted by Gatehouse (711 posts) -

@mb: If you're not great a dodging yet, then I would suggest going for a more 'tanky' build for now. Equip a greatshield and block to your heart's content. What sort of level are you now? Just for context and all that. If you have any humanity left, Solaire is a fantastic summon (he's on the stairs in front of that pesky archer) he does a cracking job of pulling agro. Also, as @warlordpayne says above, killing Ornstein first makes the fight much, much easier. You can grind 'soft humanity' by killing the other dudes in the area before you kill the boss, it just takes a little bit of time.

BTW, in the unlikely even that you’re playing on 360, I would be very happy to assist you in some jolly cooperation.

#49 Edited by MB (13139 posts) -

@golguin: I'm currently at about SL 55 or so...I've got a few points into str/dex/end/att for the basics and then am concentrating on faith for the miracles. As far as miracles go, I am using Heal, Lightning Spear, and have pyromancy flame +5 and fire orb attuned. For a shield I am using the Caduceus Kite Shield +10.

Up until this point I have generally been using the Shadow armor, sometimes equipping heavier armor if I need to. I've been trying either the Silver Knight set or the Crimson set for the resists against these bosses but it seems like I'm either slow and get pummeled because I can't get out of the way fast enough, or I'm fast and take way more damage and just die faster. I have been using the poise ring and the phys def ring together.

I don't think the problem is my gear or my build, it's just that I'm not great at the game yet and am especially poor at dodging. Up until this point I've mostly been using block then strike techniques or sometimes parrying, but hardly ever dodging.

I'll try your suggestion about getting more Estus flasks, I didn't even know that was possible!

Moderator
#50 Posted by WesleyWyndam (163 posts) -

I just finished NG+ a few hours ago. I did this fight both ways in that the first time, I killed Smough last. Then in NG+, I killed Ornstein last. I think killing Smough last was much easier as he basically came to me and I was able to keep Smough at a distance and focus on Ornstein. Then, when it was just Smough, I kept a pillar between us and went in for a strike after he tried to attack me but couldn't reach me because of the pillar. In cases where I timed it bad, I was able to keep the pillar between us and healed.

Ornstein last was really time consuming for me. It took about 20 minutes to beat him. I used all 10 heals I had, 20 flasks+7, 2 great heals, and a humanity. This fight was all about blocking, dodging, and sneaking in a hit when I could. It was harder to keep him behind a pillar and attack because he was a little faster. I had to take more risks.

I don't remember what level I was during these fights, but I wore the heaviest armor and shield I could while not breaking the 50% encumbrance mark. I believe I used a halberd+10 the first time and a Black Knight Great Axe+5 the second time.

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