I don't know if I'm the only one experiencing this problem, but it seems like it's really rare to find others to summon/be summoned. I drop signs fairly regularly and I've only joined one game, and I've only found one person to summon in the 8 hours I've played so far. This doesn't seem to be a problem with Demons Souls, where I'm usually summoned 5 minutes tops after putting down a sign.

Am I doing something wrong?

I tried to invade a world 3 times and they all failed. So yeah, maybe there are some issues with that.

Noticed the same thing actually I player for 2 hrs today and never even saw another ghost

It has something to do with the way that they set up the online system in this game. Lot of people are complaining about not being able to connect to or find most people. It's p2p apparently, and there's a lot of people bitching about it on the prepare to die forums. I don't have a full understanding of it, so someone else will have to explain it or you could go check their official forums for more info.

@benjaebe: It seems the MP is broken as fuck. This will explain is. http://www.preparetodie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2814

and this an online petition for Namco to change it http://www.preparetodie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2801

If they don't change that the the game is going back. I'll just do 1 playthrough and will return because there's no reason for me to do a 2nd one if I can't play with my friends, which was promised to us.

Yeah, I hardly ever even see ghosts and I've never seen a soul sign

If they don't change that the the game is going back. I'll just do 1 playthrough and will return because there's no reason for me to do a 2nd one if I can't play with my friends, which was promised to us.

@FluxWaveZ said:

@Mordukai said:

If they don't change that the the game is going back. I'll just do 1 playthrough and will return because there's no reason for me to do a 2nd one if I can't play with my friends, which was promised to us.

Like Demon's Souls, I don't think the game's multiplayer is meant to be played with your friends. They never promised that. Though, I do think there would have been less problems out of the gate with Dark Souls if Atlus was behind this again instead of Namco, but that's just a baseless thought.

Demon's Souls Coop wasn't the most idle one but it was workable. This is just crap because if one of my friends has a less then ideal internet connection then we would never be able to play with one another. From Software promised that MP will be more robust and improved on Demon Souls. As it stands Demon's Souls has a better MP. This MP is broken, plain and simple and I am not the only who thinks that.

I've only seen 2 ghosts so far.

A petition already? Jesus, the games been out for, like, 2 days? I'd wait a bit for a response from Namco or From or whoever before freaking out.

Also, what consoles are you guys with online problems playing on? The link that was provided above mentioned PS3. Is it just as bad on both?

Maybe it's just that not many people are playing it yet. Demon's Souls has been out for a couple years now, Dark Souls just came out. Give it some time.

Hmm, I have already summoned 3 people, and I just only beat the 2nd boss. You do realize you have to be in human form to see the summon signs right? I also see a lot of ghosts/messages around, are you guys on xbox? Maybe it is unpopulated.

The problem is there is no server it is all one "world" so the reality is your connection to other players is what determines who you get to play with. I know lots of dudes from europe through Demon's Souls, I will never get to play with them.... period. Why? Because our connection will not meet the standard that is set for Dark Souls. Dark Souls when the connection works is seemless, smooth, no lag, no disconnects. But that is only when it works. If you don't meet the connection strength gate your summons with either always fail or simply no one will ever see your sign to begin with and vice-verse.

@SirPsychoSexy said:

Hmm, I have already summoned 3 people, and I just only beat the 2nd boss. You do realize you have to be in human form to see the summon signs right? I also see a lot of ghosts/messages around, are you guys on xbox? Maybe it is unpopulated.

I'm playing on PS3. I was just curious if other people were seeing as few soul signs as I was. I mean, the item you use to make yourself summonable isn't plainly obvious so maybe people are missing it or something.

@SuperWristBands said:

Also, what consoles are you guys with online problems playing on? The link that was provided above mentioned PS3. Is it just as bad on both?

I'm curious to know this as well. I have my 360 copy preordered, and as far as I can tell there are no issues for that version (judging by talking to people on my friends list and reading reviews).

Also, to the dude already starting/linking to petitions...a tad early, don't you think? I mean, the thread you linked had the guy blaming the game being multiplatform for its shortcomings. That's one step away from the hideous nerd who raged on Youtube over FFXIII being released to X360.

Does this mean I can be human and not worry about some dick trying to kill me.

@SuperWristBands said:

A petition already? Jesus, the games been out for, like, 2 days? I'd wait a bit for a response from Namco or From or whoever before freaking out.

Also, what consoles are you guys with online problems playing on? The link that was provided above mentioned PS3. Is it just as bad on both?

Yes it's that bad. As a SP game Dark Souls is amazing but it's MP can't hold a candle to DS.

I'm not running into any of these problems, I see ghosts, fireplace ghosts, get black phantoms and can summon people. Sucks though and hope they fix it for all of you.

I had a problem summoning this one guy, but I tried another person and it worked fine. They probably don't have an Open NAT.

I see a lot of phantoms very frequently. You guys must not be spending much time in human form. The real issue for me is actually getting people into my game or joining someone's game. I see souls and i throw down my soapsign, but to no end. I am on steam chat with a friend so i know that he clicked on my sign when i'm phantom and vice versa. The game keeps saying "summon failed" over and over. This is the issue for me, not finding phantoms.

I don't spend much time in human mode as I dont want to be invaded and unlike Demons Souls theres no real advantages other than summoning people.

It's also a problem that humanity is so rare that people are stingy with it so nobody is ever in body form = no invasions and nobody summoning people. They need to have you automatically get an effing body when you beat a boss, it's lame that this isn't the case. I think what is happening is that people aren't spending their ultra rare humanity on bodies. This is the only design decision that seems like it was a really stupid change, the rest of the game is so tight.

I've seen plenty of ghosts and messages, but not a single soul sign in the 20 hours I've played. I also haven't dropped a single summon because I haven't been in body form once in that entire 20 hours. I'm sure the same is going on with others. I've been a zombie with +5 humanity, but I haven't been in human form even once.

I understand that people are ticked that they can't match up like they could in Dark Souls, but this ultra rare humanity and no auto-human form crap is breaking even the random PVP/Co-Op.

People are exaggerating. You can play through the entirety of Demons Souls offline and you will still get a FULLY rewarding, long, gaming experience. In DS about 50% of soul signs would fail for me.

I honestly hope they "fix" the online and then that guy gets repeatedly invaded by dark phantoms when he's just trying to get something easy done, or farming. I hate nerd rage.

I see phantoms EVERYWHERE! I dont see to many soul signs for me to summon but I have found a few, and they did help for when i needed them. Also i just spent an hour sitting by the first bell ( Boss area) and kept putting down a summon. I think in an hours time i got summoned at least 9 times and 7 of those i got some coin because the person was smart enough to bring the npc. I dont see how you guys are having such problems but I am doing just fine. I do know that invading someone is having problems. I was watching a stream earlier and the guy had to use 4-5 signs before it finally found a world for him to invade, but him getting summoned as blue phantom and vice versa was working for him also. The fact that its region now does suck, but for me and a few others that i know, it seems to be working at least. FYI, i am in human form 90% of the time, so that might be why.

@plaintomato said:

It's also a problem that humanity is so rare that people are stingy with it so nobody is ever in body form = no invasions and nobody summoning people. They need to have you automatically get an effing body when you beat a boss, it's lame that this isn't the case. I think what is happening is that people aren't spending their ultra rare humanity on bodies. This is the only design decision that seems like it was a really stupid change, the rest of the game is so tight.

I've seen plenty of ghosts and messages, but not a single soul sign in the 20 hours I've played. I also haven't dropped a single summon because I haven't been in body form once in that entire 20 hours. I'm sure the same is going on with others. I've been a zombie with +5 humanity, but I haven't been in human form even once.

I understand that people are ticked that they can't match up like they could in Dark Souls, but this ultra rare humanity and no auto-human form crap is breaking even the random PVP/Co-Op.

That actually makes the most sense. Hell, I rarely if ever have humanity. Perhaps once people play through once they'll feel more comfortable being in human form. It's just a shame since getting summoned is actually one of the easiest ways to get humanity and souls.

@plaintomato said:

I've seen plenty of ghosts and messages, but not a single soul sign in the 20 hours I've played. I also haven't dropped a single summon because I haven't been in body form once in that entire 20 hours. I'm sure the same is going on with others. I've been a zombie with +5 humanity, but I haven't been in human form even once.

I understand that people are ticked that they can't match up like they could in Dark Souls, but this ultra rare humanity and no auto-human form crap is breaking even the random PVP/Co-Op.

Wait a minute. I do agree that the Multiplayer is restricting.. way more so than Demon's Souls. But I think 90% of the problem is:

1) To summon someone, they need to be within 10% of your level. That's FAR more restricting than Demon's Souls was, particularly early on.

2) People like this guy. Why are you a zombie with +5 humanity? Spend just 1 point of Humanity at a bonfire and you're now Human and can summon people. Beating a boss gives humanity, so run over to a bonfire and spend it if you want to be Human again. It's no harder to become Human in Dark Souls, it's just a conscious decision now that you have to make and be aware of.

I've been summoned like 8 or 9 times today at Gargoyles.  A few of those times I wasn't the only person summoned.   I like the Gargoyles fight and it is pretty fun with with someone else.

@KarlHungus01 said:

@plaintomato said:

I've seen plenty of ghosts and messages, but not a single soul sign in the 20 hours I've played. I also haven't dropped a single summon because I haven't been in body form once in that entire 20 hours. I'm sure the same is going on with others. I've been a zombie with +5 humanity, but I haven't been in human form even once.

I understand that people are ticked that they can't match up like they could in Dark Souls, but this ultra rare humanity and no auto-human form crap is breaking even the random PVP/Co-Op.

Wait a minute. I do agree that the Multiplayer is restricting.. way more so than Demon's Souls. But I think 90% of the problem is:

2) People like this guy. Why are you a zombie with +5 humanity? Spend just 1 point of Humanity at a bonfire and you're now Human and can summon people. Beating a boss gives humanity, so run over to a bonfire and spend it if you want to be Human again. It's no harder to become Human in Dark Souls, it's just a conscious decision now that you have to make and be aware of.

I was a zombie with +5 Humanity because, obviously if I earned a +5 Humanity stat and don't even have a body, I'm getting along pretty well at that moment on my own. That's a plus +5 Humanity stat that didn't cost me any consumables. I'm not going to go spend my consumable humanity to revive when I'm doing fine without it because when the demon shit hits the fan later I'd end up wishing I had all that humanity I used up at a time when I didn't need it.

That's my point about the problem - make it so rare and people will horde it. It was the same with the revival stones in Demon's Souls, BUT in that case you automatically regained your body every so often by defeating demons. Everybody horded their Stones of Ephemeral Eyes in that game and got their bodies back by A) killing demons or B) invading and killing hosts.

Now, killing demons doesn't revive you and you have to be in human form to invade - meaning invading doesn't revive you anymore, but instead failed invasions offer the chance to die, not to revive, costing you wasted humanity. If the ONLY way to revive is spending an ultra rare resource, you are simply going to see less body form players (i.e. summoners) and with the invasion change, only those who feel they are reasonably assured of victory are going to bother invading.

Also, invading also costs a consumable orb that is used even if the network can't successfully connect you to someone - so you can blow all your invasion orbs on jack shit and not even get a chance for the investment to reward you.

Bottom line is that turning these core mechanics into consumables at all was stupid. I'm still going to play and summon/invade when I can, I'm just telling you that this design decision cripples the online play by making body form a costly rarity, and by requiring body form to invade another player.

@Humanity said:

People are exaggerating. You can play through the entirety of Demons Souls offline and you will still get a FULLY rewarding, long, gaming experience. In DS about 50% of soul signs would fail for me.

I honestly hope they "fix" the online and then that guy gets repeatedly invaded by dark phantoms when he's just trying to get something easy done, or farming. I hate nerd rage.

That's true, Dark Souls would be fun even offline. But so would fucking Call of Duty...for like six hours. Yeah, this is way longer than 6 hours, but it was the online in Demon's Souls that turned it from a "rewarding" experience to an incredibly addicting GOTY candidate that drove you endlessly to play more and more.

It's a key feature and it's gimped in my opinion, that's all. Anyway, I hate nerd rage too. I also hate soap box assholes who for some reason think a gaming forum is not a place to talk about games, and opinions related to said games. I think if I hated nerd rage a whole real serious lot, I might find other things to do with my time than read a video gaming forum.

@plaintomato said:

@KarlHungus01 said:

@plaintomato said:

I've seen plenty of ghosts and messages, but not a single soul sign in the 20 hours I've played. I also haven't dropped a single summon because I haven't been in body form once in that entire 20 hours. I'm sure the same is going on with others. I've been a zombie with +5 humanity, but I haven't been in human form even once.

I understand that people are ticked that they can't match up like they could in Dark Souls, but this ultra rare humanity and no auto-human form crap is breaking even the random PVP/Co-Op.

Wait a minute. I do agree that the Multiplayer is restricting.. way more so than Demon's Souls. But I think 90% of the problem is:

2) People like this guy. Why are you a zombie with +5 humanity? Spend just 1 point of Humanity at a bonfire and you're now Human and can summon people. Beating a boss gives humanity, so run over to a bonfire and spend it if you want to be Human again. It's no harder to become Human in Dark Souls, it's just a conscious decision now that you have to make and be aware of.

I was a zombie with +5 Humanity because, obviously if I earned a +5 Humanity stat and don't even have a body, I'm getting along pretty well at that moment on my own. That's a plus +5 Humanity stat that didn't cost me any consumables. I'm not going to go spend my consumable humanity to revive when I'm doing fine without it because when the demon shit hits the fan later I'd end up wishing I had all that humanity I used up at a time when I didn't need it.

That's my point about the problem - make it so rare and people will horde it.

My point is this though. If Humanity isn't a big deal to where you hardly need it so far, then what are you hording it for? Thus far, I look at Humanity similar to how I look at Souls. I'm looking for any excuse at all to spend it because I know if I die, I could lose it all anyway. Besides, it's almost always worth it to Revive to Human so you can Kindle at a bonfire. If you simply did this every chance you could, you'd already be Human about as often as you were in Demon's Souls.

Use your consumable Humanity when "the demon shit hits the fan" and spend what you earn.

Again, it's definitely a step back from Demon's Souls. No argument there. But if everyone stopped hording their Humanity so much, they'd find it a little easier to co-op. It's not as easy to pick and choose where you summon. You just have to play a little more in Human form and come across soul signs randomly.

@plaintomato said:

@Humanity said:

People are exaggerating. You can play through the entirety of Demons Souls offline and you will still get a FULLY rewarding, long, gaming experience. In DS about 50% of soul signs would fail for me.

I honestly hope they "fix" the online and then that guy gets repeatedly invaded by dark phantoms when he's just trying to get something easy done, or farming. I hate nerd rage.

That's true, Dark Souls would be fun even offline. But so would fucking Call of Duty...for like six hours. Yeah, this is way longer than 6 hours, but it was the online in Demon's Souls that turned it from a "rewarding" experience to an incredibly addicting GOTY candidate that drove you endlessly to play more and more.

It's a key feature and it's gimped in my opinion, that's all. Anyway, I hate nerd rage too. I also hate soap box assholes who for some reason think a gaming forum is not a place to talk about games, and opinions related to said games. I think if I hated nerd rage a whole real serious lot, I might find other things to do with my time than read a video gaming forum.

The online stuff always felt half broken to me. Summoning and getting summoned isn't as streamlined as it could be. Not made easier, god forbid real Demons Souls enthusiasts hear that phrase, just more streamlined.

Also it's completely crazy to compare playing these games offline to Call of Duty. Shooters are straight forward narratives that offer one path through the game and thats it. I can't restart CoD as a sniper and play the entire game like that and then do a third playthrough as a heavy or pilot or whatnot. RPG's, which this game is, offer the ability to replay them multiple times choosing different paths. You can be a melee character, a magic user, blunt, sharp, piercing, pike player. Thats all completely separate playthroughs that give you hours upon hours of unique fun. I honestly don't see how invading, or getting invaded can change those playthrough as dramatically as you say.

I'm not saying you're wrong - just that the online stuff for these games isn't a crucial element - because we've been playing RPG's offline for years.

@Humanity said:

I honestly don't see how invading, or getting invaded can change those playthrough as dramatically as you say.

I'm not saying you're wrong - just that the online stuff for these games isn't a crucial element - because we've been playing RPG's offline for years.

I get what you're saying. The best way I can explain how the difference is so important is that with the game itself you could be very successful with any build and essentially just over-level yourself and learn the patterns to beat the game. You could be the melee/magic/blunt/sharp/everything in one package player and have it all, or at least a mix of it, at one time. A lot of people can and will play it that way.

If you have frequent invasions and enjoy invading, these are "bosses" that you can not learn a pattern for. And since who you come in contact with during invasions is going to be roughly the same level as you, if you have your stat points spread all over the place and are a jack of all trades guy, or even just burned an extra few stat points getting that healing miracle for your non-faith build, you are going to get your ass kicked by a guy that is at the same level but has every stat point planned and honed to a deadly-for-that-level murderous mothereffer. So it drives a lot of character planning and appeals very strongly to a special kind of OCD that I'm not alone in exhibiting. It makes the game less about an all around leveled character, and more about a precisely honed character. And that can even make the single player part of the game more challenging because you aren't spreading points out to grab convenient things outside of your build (like that healing miracle).

This made the old Demon's Souls system of being able to invade to get a body (not having to have a body in order to invade), and periodically automatically earning a body so you could be invaded regularly, a really compelling system that generated a lot of love for the game and propelled it from a really awesome game to favorite game ever for a lot of people. It created passion, and now it's created passionately disappointed people. I'm still loving this game, but that alone may be enough to prevent Dark Souls from replacing Demon's Souls as favorite game ever. That's why I'm willing to get so wordy about this whole thing. Most games wouldn't generate comments from me more than a paragraph long.

@KarlHungus01 said:

If Humanity isn't a big deal to where you hardly need it so far, then what are you hording it for?

• Because it will be a big deal later. This is what I'm going to have to get over to enjoy the game - somebody said you can farm humanity, which would make it not so limited. When/if I find a good farming spot, I'll be in body form at least once a level because I want to invade and be invaded more often so badly. I can do that, it's just sad to think of how many invaders are being lost because you have to have a body and a consumable orb to invade, which just seems like a really bad change in the game design.

Thus far, I look at Humanity similar to how I look at Souls. I'm looking for any excuse at all to spend it because I know if I die, I could lose it all anyway. Besides, it's almost always worth it to Revive to Human so you can Kindle at a bonfire. If you simply did this every chance you could, you'd already be Human about as often as you were in Demon's Souls.

• You don't have to be human to kindle a bonfire - each consumes a humanity consumable separately.
• If you die you lose your humanity stat and body, not your consumable humanities. And you can earn humanity stat points while playing as a zombie, but you can't use them to revive, only the consumables.
• Somebody in another forum is telling me I'm wrong about this - that you can use a humanity stat to revive even if you don't have any humanity consumables - I have yet to try it to confirm but if that's true (how would I know, I've been protecting my humanity consumables), I'm an idiot, you are right, and I've been hording humanity and playing as a zombie for no frickin reason and I'm stupid and totally love this game again. If this isn't true I'm still pissed.

Use your consumable Humanity when "the demon shit hits the fan" and spend what you earn.

Again, it's definitely a step back from Demon's Souls. No argument there. But if everyone stopped hording their Humanity so much, they'd find it a little easier to co-op. It's not as easy to pick and choose where you summon. You just have to play a little more in Human form and come across soul signs randomly.

• Best advice ever. You have single handedly convinced me to spend humanity as I get it. Seriously, thank you, I've been needing somebody to set my head on straight about this so I can see it in a fun light and quit the nerd rage and enjoy the game. I will now try to invade your ass and punish you for convincing me to go human. Too bad invading uses yet another consumable...

@Mordukai: This the game they designed, I think people will need to work with its limitations or wait until they patch the p2p issues.

I can put all that aside though if I could simply play the way I want to play and the fact is I can't....The game is amazing but don't let your pretentiousness get in the way of allowing people to play the way they want to.

This is the internet so entitlement is genetically implanted into everyone the moment they go online for the first time, but this is sad. The game wont let me play the way I want to play it so I will call it bad names and expect the people who made the game to make it work the way I say it should. If Namco and From Software feel the response warrants a change (fixing the p2p issues should be expected though) in the way it functions gameplay wise than thats fine. But dont expect a change to the fundamentals of a game, no matter how "broken" you think it is. I thought they should have patched a sprint into Halo 3 along with ironsights, too bad Halo plays like Halo. I wanted a trade system patched into Borderlands since trading in that game was "broken" imo. If a game sucks are we justified to demand the devs go back and work on it and do it again until its to our fitting. If it is broken, without quotes, like the p2p issues, paying customers should expect a fix.

I have joined numerous games helping others, and only a few where I have summoned others. But I have to agree, sometimes I can wait a long time before someone else summons me.

A lot of the things about Dark Souls that seem broken are deliberate. That doesn't mean shit ain't fucking broken. Framerate drops, hiccups, and some bad connections for the online are part of it. I must have tried summoning literally a total of 50 people over the course of the game that all failed. I spent about 15 minutes in front of the Capra demon chamber trying to summon people and they all failed save for one guy. Of course this was a day or two after the game came out. But today I've had a slightly easier time summoning people. I summoned maybe 8 people. But I still had trouble summoning other people later on in Anor Londo. I think reloading your game helps you out when you try to summon people. Cause if I summon someone and die and try to summon someone again, it just fails consistently. I know the summon system is part of the game and that's how it is supposed to be, but waiting around for 15 minutes only to see the message "summoning failed" all the time for is frustrating and not "fun Dark Souls"-frustrating. I only tried putting down a soul sign once and managed to get summoned fairly quickly though.

Just an update on my rant and then I'm done with it. I was straight up wrong before about how the humanity consumable works, the consumable is used to increase the humanity stat, the humanity stat is what is spent at bonfires. So if you have a humanity stat, use it. I'm still hoarding my consumable "solid form" humanities for when I really need them, at least once I'm down to only a couple.

I've also been crying about how you can't invade in zombie form, and how defeating bosses does not grant you a humanity, therefore making it more difficult to get a humanity stat point and revive on a regular basis - but you can be summoned in zombie form, so if you help someone defeat a boss, you can get it that way. Only downside is that with the rarity of humanity, so few players are in human form to actually summon you so it can take awhile to get summoned.

I finally understand this, so I'm over myself and just enjoying the game, and being in human form a little more often. Now I finally feel the way I wanted to feel - like Dark Souls can now replace Demon's Souls as best game ever made ever. Better than Tetris even lol.

@plaintomato said:

Just an update on my rant and then I'm done with it. I was straight up wrong before about how the humanity consumable works, the consumable is used to increase the humanity stat, the humanity stat is what is spent at bonfires. So if you have a humanity stat, use it. I'm still hoarding my consumable "solid form" humanities for when I really need them, at least once I'm down to only a couple.

I've also been crying about how you can't invade in zombie form, and how defeating bosses does not grant you a humanity, therefore making it more difficult to get a humanity stat point and revive on a regular basis - but you can be summoned in zombie form, so if you help someone defeat a boss, you can get it that way. Only downside is that with the rarity of humanity, so few players are in human form to actually summon you so it can take awhile to get summoned.

I finally understand this, so I'm over myself and just enjoying the game, and being in human form a little more often. Now I finally feel the way I wanted to feel - like Dark Souls can now replace Demon's Souls as best game ever made ever. Better than Tetris even lol.

Glad you got there. It took me a LONG time to figure out how Humanity works and how it relates to the game. It's easily the most confusing new element of Dark Souls.

ive read that its nearly impossible to summon/ be summoned if ur above lvl 150 rlly hope dark souls fixes this

ohwow, old forumlol, nvm