Why did they make this into an RPG ?

#1 Posted by Ares42 (2662 posts) -

Back in 2010 Darksiders was easily one of my favorite games of the year, but what they've done with this one has more or less systematically removed most of the joy from the game for me. Finding a secret chest in the first game almost always meant you were either getting a piece of the epic armor set, some form of weapon enhancement that changed the properties of your weapon, or at worst a health or wrath upgrade. Now all you find is random loot. I just finished my first collection for the Book of the Dead. What did I get ? Random loot.

I'm almost 12 hours in and my toolbox so far consists of a key and a hookshot, and there's only been one boss that really used either as a mechanic. Instead most of the bosses are now gear checks. I've already run into three bosses (while exploring) that were close to impossible to kill because I was underlevelled. I'm really missing the pace and construct of an adventure game. It just seems to me like they've been replacing great adventure gameplay with mediocre rpg gameplay.

#2 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

Because RPGs are awesome?

#3 Edited by Yummylee (21622 posts) -

I can see where you're coming from. The RPG-ness, over the action/adventure format of the original, also means the pacing isn't as tight, either. I'm not particularly fond of Death and much prefer War (because Liam O'Brien, yo!) and so far, after reaching the Tree of Death, the lack of cosmetic variety for the loot is a let down. Oh, and too many collectibles ohmygeeeeeeeee!

Though the most unfortunate aspect about Darksiders II for me is the story, which so far barely has any relation to the first; it all mostly comes across as a side-story, here to help expand the universe and give you more exposure to all of the other goings on in this fiction, rather than actually pushing forward the plot from the original. I'm still enjoying my time with it and, besides the story, I like a lot of what they've got here. I think the combat, while significantly more hectic and button-mashy, is still riotously fun and a step-up in challenge from Darksiders. Though it's recently been completely overshadowed by Sleeping Dog which I simply can't stop playing. Man, fucking love that game. I haven't had so much gleeful fun in an open-world crime game since Saints Row 2.

EDIT: Also FYI, this is basically what they had originally planned Darksiders to be all along. So there's your answer.

#4 Posted by OneKillWonder_ (1744 posts) -

While I am enjoying the game, I mostly agree with you. The pacing for the main story is kind of terrible, and the exploration and loot system are somewhat uncompelling. Many of the dungeon designs I've seen so far are also bland and unimaginative. The main boss fights have been great, but you are spot on about the side bosses. There's no real way to tell that you are under-leveled for them until you get your ass handed to you a few times, i.e. The Deposed King. I love action-RPGs and loot-driven games when done right, and it can be occasionally satisfying here, but not often enough to feel like a truly rewarding experience. In addition, I don't find the story, characters, or level design to be nearly as good as in the original game. I haven't finished DSII yet, but the 12 hours I've put into at this point tells me that overall, Darksiders 1 is a superior game.

#5 Posted by natetodamax (19205 posts) -

They wanted to include loot, skills trees, etc. in the first game but weren't able to.

I'll admit that Darksiders 2 hasn't grabbed me as hard as the first game did. I got it on release day and I've only played an hour of it.

#6 Posted by MeatBoy (51 posts) -

@Ares42: I couldn't agree more. Seems like they thought that the flashy xp popups and loot would replace the sense of adventure the last game had without anyone noticing. Disappointing to say the least. Simply put, grinding is not fun.

#7 Posted by FourWude (2261 posts) -

On a sidenote. Can anyone tell me how Prince of Persia-ry is this game? Because I love me some PoP platforming.

#8 Edited by Yummylee (21622 posts) -

@FourWude said:

On a sidenote. Can anyone tell me how Prince of Persia-ry is this game? Because I love me some PoP platforming.

From a traversal standpoint: This is a PoP game... Just without the Time gimmick.

#9 Posted by ShaggE (6452 posts) -

@FourWude said:

On a sidenote. Can anyone tell me how Prince of Persia-ry is this game? Because I love me some PoP platforming.

I'm still early on, but although there's a lot of that kind of traversal, it's SUPER easy so far. I'm one of the worst platforming players ever, and I have no trouble with it, if that says anything.

#10 Posted by FourWude (2261 posts) -

@Yummylee said:

@FourWude said:

On a sidenote. Can anyone tell me how Prince of Persia-ry is this game? Because I love me some PoP platforming.

From a traversal standpoint: This is a PoP game... Just without the Time gimmick.

And pray tell Mr Yummy, how much traversal is there in this game?

#11 Posted by FourWude (2261 posts) -

@ShaggE said:

@FourWude said:

On a sidenote. Can anyone tell me how Prince of Persia-ry is this game? Because I love me some PoP platforming.

I'm still early on, but although there's a lot of that kind of traversal, it's SUPER easy so far. I'm one of the worst platforming players ever, and I have no trouble with it, if that says anything.

So it basically feels like PoP 2008... which I just happen to love btw.

#12 Posted by Marz (5651 posts) -

they originally wanted RPG mechanics in the first game but didn't have time to put them in.

#13 Posted by Yummylee (21622 posts) -

@FourWude said:

@Yummylee said:

@FourWude said:

On a sidenote. Can anyone tell me how Prince of Persia-ry is this game? Because I love me some PoP platforming.

From a traversal standpoint: This is a PoP game... Just without the Time gimmick.

And pray tell Mr Yummy, how much traversal is there in this game?

Quite a lot. Much more so than there was in the original Darksiders; loads of stuff like wall running through a tight passageway leaping between the two walls to keep up your momentum. Best of all is it controls really well and, like pointed out, isn't very difficult so it's very breezy and fun just to watch Death scramble all over walls like, well, The Prince.

The lack of a double jump is vexing, though, and more so outright weird considering even War, the beefed up Red Riding Hood that he is, could do a double jump.

#14 Posted by ShaggE (6452 posts) -

@FourWude said:

@ShaggE said:

@FourWude said:

On a sidenote. Can anyone tell me how Prince of Persia-ry is this game? Because I love me some PoP platforming.

I'm still early on, but although there's a lot of that kind of traversal, it's SUPER easy so far. I'm one of the worst platforming players ever, and I have no trouble with it, if that says anything.

So it basically feels like PoP 2008... which I just happen to love btw.

Yep, basically. And it feels really, really good. The only possible complaint I could make against it is that occasionally the game doesn't seem to recognize the stick being pushed to the left or right when going from ledge to ledge, and you'll find yourself scrambling up the wall a couple of times until you let off the stick and push again. Might just be me, but I can't imagine how.

#15 Edited by Tennmuerti (8099 posts) -

There is a shitton of unique loot, hidden collectibles that buff your stats, as well as all normal loot feeding into your posessed weapons as well as providing majority of the income for armor upgrades. Abyssal armor is likewise present and has to be really worked for. And the only real interesting shit in chests in Darksiders 1 were the enchants. Abyssal armor was only possible to collect at the end of the game when you were done with it anyways. Health/Wrath upgrades from 1 are now just part of gear which has a wealth of stats to upgrade rather then just 2.

I also am yet to see anyone make a decent argument as to what exactly is missing of the "adventure" part of the first game. You still explore, there is still tons of secrets to find. Much more to explore and find in fact. And anything can be killed with skill even if you are undergeared/leveled (even the Deposed King the toughest sideboss) Deposed king is level 20, i killed him at 15 without any issues, yet another player on GB did it at 13.

To me it looks like the game is just as much an adventure game as the last, only with an added RPG layer on top.

#16 Edited by Ares42 (2662 posts) -

@Marz: But they haven't just added RPG mechanics that they "missed out on" for Darksiders 1, they have actively removed a ton of the adventure stuff. While there are still some special items here and there they could've easily merged the 2 systems by for instance having random loot armor but kept the same system for weapons. And there's absolutely no reason to cut down on the amount and importance of adventuring tools. It almost seems like the opposite has happened this time. Last time they weren't able to put the RPG stuff in, this time they weren't able to get the adventure game stuff in.

@Tennmuerti: I might get some details wrong, but the best way I can describe it is this. In Darksiders 1 you beat the bat boss by igniting the bombs with your crossblade, you beat the spider by using your hookshot, you beat the underground boss (can't remember what it was) by using your glove force-punch thinige, you beat the golems by using your portal gun. In Darksiders 2 the only boss that have utilized my tools this way so far has been the arena champion. An adventure game is very deliberately paced and is throwing you the correct challenges according to the tools you've been given. This one lacks both of those aspects.

#17 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

The dungeoneering is just as good as Darksiders 1, and some of the RPG elements, namely the loot aspect, is good enough to rival the likes of Diablo 3. And I quite enjoyed beating Ghorn at lvl 11 (some mid-dungeon encounter was the actual challenge in the Scar though) and the Deposed King at 14. But yes, it does feel a little less tight overall because of it.

Shame I had a fever throughout playing Darksiders 2, and that I started a NG+ before exploring the gameworld completely - because all them keys and gadgets are gone now... oh well. No time to fret. GW2 is right around the corner.

#18 Posted by project343 (2823 posts) -

Separate it from the Zelda series and make it infinitely better than it's predecessor? This is easily my favourite Zelda title, like, ever--even if it is significantly less like Zelda than it was before.

#19 Edited by Tennmuerti (8099 posts) -

@Ares42:

There is a boss you need to use a gun to beat, boss that requires a horse to beat, several bosses you need to use grip to beat, a boss you need the portal gun to beat. (it's also a silly contrived mechanic in the first place, when for every single tool there is a 1 specifically designed boss)

The pacing is all there if you follow the main story thread. There are no inconsistent challanges on this path

Tougher side content is an additional RPG feature, not a removal of something. (even Darksiders 1 had Wicked K) And again even those are well within managable range with a bit of skill if you encounter them earlier.

#20 Posted by sins_of_mosin (1556 posts) -

I don't mind the RPG stuff but I don't recall having so many damn puzzles in the first game.  Its getting to the point of a grind and I fear it will make the game last a lot longer.

#21 Posted by CornBREDX (5262 posts) -

I don't know. I like it way more then the first game, and find the pacing way more interesting. The game play is more compelling as well. Them removing the forced arena challenge rooms helps a lot. I like this one a lot more then the first. 

#22 Posted by Dagbiker (6976 posts) -

Perhaps it was because Vigil dared to dream, they dared to expand on a game that was only slightly above mediocre, and try, if not succeed at making it grand. Perhaps they made the game they wanted, as opposed to the game they were told, by playtesters, PR, and CEO's, that they should be making. Perhaps, just, perhaps, this is not a game force feed through game development deadlines and workflows. Perhaps, this is a game from the heart.

Or it could be that Diablo came out this year too. Who knows.

#23 Posted by PillClinton (3291 posts) -

I totally know where you're coming from, but I personally like the RPG additions, even if they are a little bit shallow (although the constant random loot can be a bit of a tedious chore, but thank goodness there's no encumbrance!).

#24 Posted by TheMasterDS (2066 posts) -

I think there's merit to taking the Zelda model but taking out the assumption that puzzles in any given dungeon have to be driven by a new item and making it instead that they're driven by new puzzles, mechanics, and uses for existing items. I mean yeah you can get pretty fatigued going whole dungeons without new items, but so long as they're doing interesting things with existing items and are introducing new things in the world which put new spins on those existing items it should be fine.

#25 Posted by Irvandus (2878 posts) -

The first one was meant to be an RPG as well, ran out of time and budget so it wasn't. This time they got to make the game they want.

#26 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@Dagbiker said:

Or it could be that Diablo came out this year too. Who knows.

And Borderlands 2 is about the satiate the fuck out of my love of the loot.

#27 Posted by Yummylee (21622 posts) -

@Napalm said:

@Dagbiker said:

Or it could be that Diablo came out this year too. Who knows.

And Borderlands 2 is about the satiate the fuck out of my love of the loot.

And Kingdoms of Amalur was a loot-heavy game, too. So is that new Dust: An Elysian Tail thing. Furthermore, there's been three games released that are all called Dust! And the bird in Darksiders II is called Dust. Which is a loot game.

  • Year of the Loot Lust
  • Year of Dust
  • Year of the Bow

Speaking of which, there are three Resident Evil games being released this year as well as two movies; Year of the Bow is more like Year of the B.O.W.! Though what's unfortunate is how nearly all of the RE media released this year is kinda bad! I say nearly because it's too early to say for sure with RE6--though the live-action movie will suck, and the CGI one probably won't be great either if it's anything like Degeneration--and I haven't played Revelations, but that's actually supposed to be pretty alright?

So, yeah, where am I going with this? I don't know! Year of the Conspiracy!

#28 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@Yummylee said:

Speaking of which, there are three Resident Evil games being released this year as well as two movies; Year of the Bow is more like Year of the B.O.W.!

Die in a ditch.

#29 Posted by Yummylee (21622 posts) -

@Napalm said:

@Yummylee said:

Speaking of which, there are three Resident Evil games being released this year as well as two movies; Year of the Bow is more like Year of the B.O.W.!

Die in a ditch.

You can be so cruel sometimes. Don't expect a warm roast when you get home from work, and I'm taking the kids.

#30 Posted by Briggs713 (217 posts) -

I thought the RPG mechanics were OK. I went all left-side of the skill tree and I found developing the moves to be satisfying. The loot felt meh. There's such a balance between puzzle solving, traversal and fighting that I didn't really care that I was picking up new weapons and gear. I did like the idea of possessed weapons and am excited about how that will develop in future sequels.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.