Countdown to Dead or Alive 5 - Day 1: Dead or Alive Ultimate

Posted by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

it's no secret that i love the Dead or Alive fighting game series. its super fast, fun fighting system, colorful cast of characters and sheer personality makes it a series that i've come to adore over the years that i've started to play it. while its reputation has become pretty embarrassing (rightfully so, in some cases), it's something that some like to look past to dig into the fun that the fighting games have to offer. the next instalment is in sight, and i still can't believe it.

Dead or Alive 5 comes out in North America in eight days.

that's kind of crazy, now that i think about it. in a sense, i'm grateful that we're getting a Dead or Alive 5 at all, or at least a fifth instalment that looks good. when Tomonobu Itagaki left Team NINJA in 2008, he said that the Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden games would no longer continue, but since then we've seen tons of games by Team NINJA from great games like Dead or Alive: Dimensions all the way to disasters like Ninja Gaiden 3. although, given Ninja Gaiden 3's outcome, i'm glad that Dead or Alive 5 actually looks well made. the way i put it, i make it sound like we've been waiting over ten years for this.

i haven't really been too vocal about my excitement for Dead or Alive 5. apart from dominating the game's wiki page and the occasional forum post, has been the one who's been showing the most excitement for this game as far as i'm concerned on Giant Bomb. he's been getting the forums hyped up. i think it goes without saying that i'm super excited for Dead or Alive 5's release, and i always was, from that time that tweeted me the announcement when i was in math class, trying not to lose my shit all the way to this very moment where i find it hard to believe that i'll be playing it a bit more than a week from now.

since we're getting a fifth Dead or Alive instalment, i've been playing through the main series, and i figured i may as well write some stuff up while i'm at it. i've never really written much about Dead or Alive apart from a Dimensions review and what could be thousands of words on wall posts, PMs and instant messaging conversations with other GB users.

so, without further delay. allow me to present what could be my least favorite game in the fighting game franchise, the first Dead or Alive!

Dead or Alive (1996) - Arcade, Saturn, PS1, Xbox*

A Little History

i gotta admit, this box art is pretty alright

Dead or Alive saved Tecmo's ass. Tomonobu Itagaki was tasked with designing a fighting game that could rival Sega's Virtua Fighter games, which was good for him because apparently he was pissed off at how fighting games at the time were designed. he wanted to kick all of their asses and deliver the 'old school' fighting game style that those games 'used' to deliver. so, he created Dead or Alive. the name came from Tecmo's financial situation at the time, which was apparently totally messed up because Itagaki's fighting game was the only thing that stood between Tecmo and bankruptcy.

no pressure, right?

well, luckily, Dead or Alive kicked ass in Japanese arcades. so much, they brought it to the West where it totally got its ass handed to it by Tekken! i guess that's why Itagaki hates Tekken so much. Dead or Alive was so kickass that it even got its own Playstation version, which was a vastly improved version of Dead or Alive in the arcades and on the Saturn. it got a few new playable characters, improved graphics to take advantage of the Playstation's hardware and loads of new costumes. this was called Dead or Alive ++ when it was released in the arcades. the last Dead or Alive 1 release was when it was bundled with a remake of Dead or Alive 2 in Dead or Alive: Ultimate. DOA1 was remastered with smoother graphics, surround sound and online play.

Everything's Gotta Start Somewhere, I Guess

i never played Dead or Alive when it came out. i had a Playstation and all that, but i never played DOA until Dead or Alive 3 on the Xbox. so.. going back to the first Dead or Alive game is weird. it's neat to see where the series came from, but i don't think this game aged especially well, considering how refined the fighting got in Dead or Alive 2, and in later games.

Ryu's about to get messed the eff up with that explosive floor

Dead or Alive has a pretty small cast of characters, but they're friendly faces nonetheless. we've got Kasumi, Tina, Lei Fang, Zack, Jann Lee, Bayman, Ryu Hayabusa and Gen-Fu. this was Ryu's first appearance since the old-school Ninja Gaiden games, and it was here where he was injected into the Dead or Alive universe. Dead or Alive ++ added characters like Bass and Ayane, but we're gonna focus on the Xbox version of Dead or Alive, called Dead or Alive 1 Ultimate. it was essentially a port of the Saturn version because.. i don't know, something about the Playstation build of DOA belonging to Sony or something like that.

anyway, Dead or Alive is a fighter where players have to knock their opponents out, or ring them out. they can use the punch and kick buttons, which is standard fare but what really set Dead or Alive apart was its counter system. with the right timing, you could stop an opponent's attack, losing no health and punishing them with a deadly counter attack. while in the first Dead or Alive, it wasn't really much more than a shove, it was a mechanic that set the series apart from other fighters as the games progressed, and became a staple of the series.

jesus christ. Raidou looks terrifying as hell here.

now, and especially in Dead or Alive 5, the stages play a big part in the overall gameplay. that's not too different in DOA1, except they're not really stages. every stage consists of a few squares of land where the fighters beat each other to a pulp, but surrounding that land is what's called the Danger Zone. when knocked down onto the Danger Zone, the floor explodes and you launch into the air. it's pretty cool, and it can lead to some pretty alright combos. the extent of changes in stages usually involves the background, which could change from a city street, to an airplane hanger or a thunder storm. it's nothing too exciting, but it keeps things kinda interesting for what it is. the arcade version had wicked 3D rendered backgrounds, but the Saturn was apparently too weak to handle that, so it was changed to lame 2D backgrounds. nice one.

there's.. not really that much else to say about it, really. while i can appreciate what it started, it's not that exciting of a fighting game. from the time i've spent with it, combos aren't particularly easy to pull off, or even very interesting. the opponent AI is pretty punishing in standard DOA fashion, and there's not that much to do in this game apart from some standard modes (time attack, survival, training) and some unlockable costumes.

What.. What is wrong with your chest?!

of course, one big draw to Dead or Alive was its cast of busty, beautiful polygonal ladies. there's a scene in the intro where Kasumi is nude in some steamy bath, and the breasts.. oh dear lord..

if you thought Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 had horribly scary boobs (which it still does), you should check out what's going on in this game. it looks like two forces are playing a game of tug-o-war with Kasumi's breasts. it's kind of funny, but it's kind of embarrassing that it's become a staple of the series today: exaggerated breast bounce. no doubt it played a big factor in the game's success, if not for it's 'sexiness', then for it's sheer absurdity. the game even has an option in the main menu to toggle it on and off in case it becomes too horrifying to watch.

Oh, there's a story, isn't there?

long story short:

  • some dude named Raidou is a dick, beats the hell out of everybody in the Mugen Tenshin village and steals some hidden ninja power from them.
  • some ninja dude named Hayate isn't gonna take any of that, so he tries to attack Raidou. Raidou totally fucks Hayate up with that hidden ninja power.
  • Hayate goes missing, everybody thinks he's dead. Kasumi, Hayate's brother thinks that he's alive so she sets out to find him. she leaves the clan, is considered a traitor and Ayane is assigned to assassinate her. Ayane was treated like shit as a kid because she was the result of a rape by Raidou, and due to that, she's always been jealous of how Kasumi was treated. she developed a hatred for Kasumi.
  • Kasumi enters something called the Dead or Alive tournament because Raidou is supposed to be there. Kasumi wins the tourney and kills Raidou by crushing him with falling debris. still no sign of Hayate.

That's About It

there's not much else that i can say about this game. it's a pretty standard fighting game with crazy breast bounce and a cool counter system. ultimately, it leads to not really writing anything interesting, but i figured that i should cover this game at least considering that it's an important game, regardless of its quality today. i'm sure those with nostalgia for the first Dead or Alive think a lot more highly than i do, but i can only say so much from the perspective of somebody who didn't play this game when it was around.

tomorrow, i'll go over Dead or Alive 2 Hardcore which is a game that i absolutely adore. you can find that here

thanks for reading.

~Ajay

#1 Edited by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

it's no secret that i love the Dead or Alive fighting game series. its super fast, fun fighting system, colorful cast of characters and sheer personality makes it a series that i've come to adore over the years that i've started to play it. while its reputation has become pretty embarrassing (rightfully so, in some cases), it's something that some like to look past to dig into the fun that the fighting games have to offer. the next instalment is in sight, and i still can't believe it.

Dead or Alive 5 comes out in North America in eight days.

that's kind of crazy, now that i think about it. in a sense, i'm grateful that we're getting a Dead or Alive 5 at all, or at least a fifth instalment that looks good. when Tomonobu Itagaki left Team NINJA in 2008, he said that the Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden games would no longer continue, but since then we've seen tons of games by Team NINJA from great games like Dead or Alive: Dimensions all the way to disasters like Ninja Gaiden 3. although, given Ninja Gaiden 3's outcome, i'm glad that Dead or Alive 5 actually looks well made. the way i put it, i make it sound like we've been waiting over ten years for this.

i haven't really been too vocal about my excitement for Dead or Alive 5. apart from dominating the game's wiki page and the occasional forum post, has been the one who's been showing the most excitement for this game as far as i'm concerned on Giant Bomb. he's been getting the forums hyped up. i think it goes without saying that i'm super excited for Dead or Alive 5's release, and i always was, from that time that tweeted me the announcement when i was in math class, trying not to lose my shit all the way to this very moment where i find it hard to believe that i'll be playing it a bit more than a week from now.

since we're getting a fifth Dead or Alive instalment, i've been playing through the main series, and i figured i may as well write some stuff up while i'm at it. i've never really written much about Dead or Alive apart from a Dimensions review and what could be thousands of words on wall posts, PMs and instant messaging conversations with other GB users.

so, without further delay. allow me to present what could be my least favorite game in the fighting game franchise, the first Dead or Alive!

Dead or Alive (1996) - Arcade, Saturn, PS1, Xbox*

A Little History

i gotta admit, this box art is pretty alright

Dead or Alive saved Tecmo's ass. Tomonobu Itagaki was tasked with designing a fighting game that could rival Sega's Virtua Fighter games, which was good for him because apparently he was pissed off at how fighting games at the time were designed. he wanted to kick all of their asses and deliver the 'old school' fighting game style that those games 'used' to deliver. so, he created Dead or Alive. the name came from Tecmo's financial situation at the time, which was apparently totally messed up because Itagaki's fighting game was the only thing that stood between Tecmo and bankruptcy.

no pressure, right?

well, luckily, Dead or Alive kicked ass in Japanese arcades. so much, they brought it to the West where it totally got its ass handed to it by Tekken! i guess that's why Itagaki hates Tekken so much. Dead or Alive was so kickass that it even got its own Playstation version, which was a vastly improved version of Dead or Alive in the arcades and on the Saturn. it got a few new playable characters, improved graphics to take advantage of the Playstation's hardware and loads of new costumes. this was called Dead or Alive ++ when it was released in the arcades. the last Dead or Alive 1 release was when it was bundled with a remake of Dead or Alive 2 in Dead or Alive: Ultimate. DOA1 was remastered with smoother graphics, surround sound and online play.

Everything's Gotta Start Somewhere, I Guess

i never played Dead or Alive when it came out. i had a Playstation and all that, but i never played DOA until Dead or Alive 3 on the Xbox. so.. going back to the first Dead or Alive game is weird. it's neat to see where the series came from, but i don't think this game aged especially well, considering how refined the fighting got in Dead or Alive 2, and in later games.

Ryu's about to get messed the eff up with that explosive floor

Dead or Alive has a pretty small cast of characters, but they're friendly faces nonetheless. we've got Kasumi, Tina, Lei Fang, Zack, Jann Lee, Bayman, Ryu Hayabusa and Gen-Fu. this was Ryu's first appearance since the old-school Ninja Gaiden games, and it was here where he was injected into the Dead or Alive universe. Dead or Alive ++ added characters like Bass and Ayane, but we're gonna focus on the Xbox version of Dead or Alive, called Dead or Alive 1 Ultimate. it was essentially a port of the Saturn version because.. i don't know, something about the Playstation build of DOA belonging to Sony or something like that.

anyway, Dead or Alive is a fighter where players have to knock their opponents out, or ring them out. they can use the punch and kick buttons, which is standard fare but what really set Dead or Alive apart was its counter system. with the right timing, you could stop an opponent's attack, losing no health and punishing them with a deadly counter attack. while in the first Dead or Alive, it wasn't really much more than a shove, it was a mechanic that set the series apart from other fighters as the games progressed, and became a staple of the series.

jesus christ. Raidou looks terrifying as hell here.

now, and especially in Dead or Alive 5, the stages play a big part in the overall gameplay. that's not too different in DOA1, except they're not really stages. every stage consists of a few squares of land where the fighters beat each other to a pulp, but surrounding that land is what's called the Danger Zone. when knocked down onto the Danger Zone, the floor explodes and you launch into the air. it's pretty cool, and it can lead to some pretty alright combos. the extent of changes in stages usually involves the background, which could change from a city street, to an airplane hanger or a thunder storm. it's nothing too exciting, but it keeps things kinda interesting for what it is. the arcade version had wicked 3D rendered backgrounds, but the Saturn was apparently too weak to handle that, so it was changed to lame 2D backgrounds. nice one.

there's.. not really that much else to say about it, really. while i can appreciate what it started, it's not that exciting of a fighting game. from the time i've spent with it, combos aren't particularly easy to pull off, or even very interesting. the opponent AI is pretty punishing in standard DOA fashion, and there's not that much to do in this game apart from some standard modes (time attack, survival, training) and some unlockable costumes.

What.. What is wrong with your chest?!

of course, one big draw to Dead or Alive was its cast of busty, beautiful polygonal ladies. there's a scene in the intro where Kasumi is nude in some steamy bath, and the breasts.. oh dear lord..

if you thought Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 had horribly scary boobs (which it still does), you should check out what's going on in this game. it looks like two forces are playing a game of tug-o-war with Kasumi's breasts. it's kind of funny, but it's kind of embarrassing that it's become a staple of the series today: exaggerated breast bounce. no doubt it played a big factor in the game's success, if not for it's 'sexiness', then for it's sheer absurdity. the game even has an option in the main menu to toggle it on and off in case it becomes too horrifying to watch.

Oh, there's a story, isn't there?

long story short:

  • some dude named Raidou is a dick, beats the hell out of everybody in the Mugen Tenshin village and steals some hidden ninja power from them.
  • some ninja dude named Hayate isn't gonna take any of that, so he tries to attack Raidou. Raidou totally fucks Hayate up with that hidden ninja power.
  • Hayate goes missing, everybody thinks he's dead. Kasumi, Hayate's brother thinks that he's alive so she sets out to find him. she leaves the clan, is considered a traitor and Ayane is assigned to assassinate her. Ayane was treated like shit as a kid because she was the result of a rape by Raidou, and due to that, she's always been jealous of how Kasumi was treated. she developed a hatred for Kasumi.
  • Kasumi enters something called the Dead or Alive tournament because Raidou is supposed to be there. Kasumi wins the tourney and kills Raidou by crushing him with falling debris. still no sign of Hayate.

That's About It

there's not much else that i can say about this game. it's a pretty standard fighting game with crazy breast bounce and a cool counter system. ultimately, it leads to not really writing anything interesting, but i figured that i should cover this game at least considering that it's an important game, regardless of its quality today. i'm sure those with nostalgia for the first Dead or Alive think a lot more highly than i do, but i can only say so much from the perspective of somebody who didn't play this game when it was around.

tomorrow, i'll go over Dead or Alive 2 Hardcore which is a game that i absolutely adore. you can find that here

thanks for reading.

~Ajay

#2 Posted by Demoskinos (14770 posts) -

Jesus Christ. I forgot how insane the breasts are in DOA 1. Good write up. I forgot Ayane wasn't even in DOA 1 as well. Its really crazy this is only 8 days away. So excited to finally get to play the real thing. The Alpha Demo was neat but so much has changed since that build.

#3 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

I totally love the origins of the series name , It would only make sense for japanese developers to use their situation and give the name to a game that either saves them or dooms them but in this day an age we probably won't get a game called Last Resort. I also came to know about Dead or Alive with 3 (even though I acutally play DOA 2 : Ultimate first) it was a pretty big contrast with the other 3D fighting game I played before wich was Tekken 3 but the pace and the way the fighting flows in DOA is probably my favorite of all 3D fighters and I didn't know Itagaki had a grudge with Tekken that's kinda funny, anyways good read.

#4 Posted by M_33 (527 posts) -

Wait, Bayman's been in there since the beginning? I don't even remember seeing him in the short time I played DOA2: Hardcore, much less DOA1. Nice write-up!

#5 Posted by Demoskinos (14770 posts) -
@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.
#6 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

I'm really looking forward to this, especially since I just discovered that Brad Wong is in the game.

#TEAMDRUNKENBRAD

#7 Posted by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

@M_33: bayman was an unlockable character in DOA2 Hardcore, so that's probably why you've never seen him. you never had a PS2 when i went over so i couldn't bring my memory card with him unlocked.

@AngelN7: the origin of the name is cool as hell.. well, bankruptcy isn't cool, but you know what i mean. i'm sure "dead or alive" sounded really edgy at the time, too.

@Demoskinos: yup. Ayane was a secret character, at that. i'm curious as to how she plays but from the looks of it, she just looks like how she plays in Dead or Alive 2.

also, thank you for the compliments!

#8 Posted by Bigandtasty (3202 posts) -

Invoking DNF sounds like a bad omen to me. But I still hope it's good for you. 
 
We need more franchises with a name representative of the developer's business hopes. Those always turn out good, or at least start out doing well.

#9 Posted by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

@McGhee: his portrait is amazing. he couldn't look any more terrifying.

@Bigandtasty:, i never thought that DNF looked good in its final years before release. Dead or Alive 5, on the other hand looks great. regardless of how it turns out, THERE'S NO TURNING BACK NOW

#10 Posted by Daveyo520 (6682 posts) -

I played that first DOA game for the 360 once.

#11 Posted by mpgeist (597 posts) -

I played a bunch of 4 today for this same reason. It didn't satisfy though. I just want 5 to get released already!

#12 Posted by Bigandtasty (3202 posts) -

That reminds me... I tried Wong in DOA3 and hated him. 
 
Of course, I also sucked at all fighters back then and only played DOA to try to Stone Cold Stunner people with Zack in the shiny alien suit, then kick people with Jann Lee while yelling like Liu Kang..

#13 Posted by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

@mpgeist: i've been playing a whole lotta 4 for a while now. i'm not far off from finally hitting 1000 wins~ but yea, while i love DOA4 despite it's issues, it's time for DOA5 to show up and spice up the series. writing about DOA4 should be a lot of fun when the time comes.

@Bigandtasty: Brad Wong plays.. weirdly in DOA3. he's a lot more fun to play as in Dead or Alive 4, along with the entire roster, now that i think about it. Kasumi was the go-to character if you sucked, though. just mash Y and you're all good.

#14 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

I somehow managed to play a poopton of dead or alive in my life. I think my brother and I were attracted to it, initially, because we were huge fans of vf1 in the arcade and couldn't ever play a decent home version of it. The game was alright but mostly forgettable. It came out during the era when the playstation was overrun with fighting games. I remember it holding my interest, but it was mostly noticeable for the inane breast jiggle. As the games progressed it went from third rate, to second rate, to pretty decent, to great. Where games like tekken have been getting worse and worse with every iteration, doa is the only series that has gotten better and better. That being said, there's a lot to dislike about doa, in my opinion. I've always hated that it's overly concerned with ninjas. Why make a hand to hand fighting game and cram it full of ninjas? Also, zack is incredibly offensive and almost refuses to get any better. Similarly, the game is lighthearted, but In a way that's far too Japanese, characters like bass are almost unplayable due to their unlimited obnoxiousness. The closer the date gets, the more excited for the game I get.

#15 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.

Oh of course he has (it took me a while to conect the dots but the man making Ninja Gaiden would definitely hate on DMC)... Devil's Thrid needs to come out now!

#16 Posted by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

@JazGalaxy: ah wow, thanks for the perspective!

there are only four ninjas on the Dead or Alive roster, which at this point, is.. what, 26? 28? somewhere around those numbers. regardless, the ninjas don't take up too much of the roster. it could be a lot worse. although that's a different story when it comes to the story and character development, where the ninjas are the star of the show. in that case, i understand because it's lame how characters like Lei Fang and Brad Wong don't get as much development as the other characters.

Zack and Bass are great characters, however. they're silly and obnoxious to an extent, but they're really powerful opponents with the right player behind the controller. Zack has a great set of tools at his disposal that can make him a really tricky opponent, and Bass's sheer aggression makes him kind of intimidating. it's real tough to shake a Bass player once you're right where he wants you.

#17 Posted by Demoskinos (14770 posts) -

@AngelN7 said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.

Oh of course he has (it took me a while to conect the dots but the man making Ninja Gaiden would definitely hate on DMC)... Devil's Thrid needs to come out now!

People give Itagaki shit for being an arrogant asshole but look at how Team Ninja fell apart after he left. He may be arrogant but you can't ever be the best in the world unless you think you're the best in the world. Itagaki brought that confidence with him wherever he went. I really hope Devil's Third manages to see the light of day. We haven't seen ANYTHING since the debut trailer. I'm...a bit worried honestly.

#18 Edited by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.

Oh of course he has (it took me a while to conect the dots but the man making Ninja Gaiden would definitely hate on DMC)... Devil's Thrid needs to come out now!

People give Itagaki shit for being an arrogant asshole but look at how Team Ninja fell apart after he left. He may be arrogant but you can't ever be the best in the world unless you think you're the best in the world. Itagaki brought that confidence with him wherever he went. I really hope Devil's Third manages to see the light of day. We haven't seen ANYTHING since the debut trailer. I'm...a bit worried honestly.

yea, i don't dig Itagaki's attitude all that much but i can't deny that he's made some great games. can't really blame him for being cocky but in regards to what he said about Tekken:

I no longer can figure out what the hell they're trying to do with the numbering, and I don't know which one is which. I don't know what they're trying to do with all of these spin-offs, so this includes Nina: Death by Degrees as well. I don't think it even needs saying, but people should stay away from Tekken. Nothing left to say. I just don't want them to disappoint me any more. It's so annoying. Please don't annoy me any more.

what the fuck does that even mean? "i can't figure out why they're numbering their games. also why the hell are they making spinoffs? i don't get it. it's not like i made Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball or anything."

it's funny to read, though. so strange.

#19 Posted by Hailinel (24413 posts) -

@AngelN7 said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.

Oh of course he has (it took me a while to conect the dots but the man making Ninja Gaiden would definitely hate on DMC)... Devil's Thrid needs to come out now!

Does Devil's Third even have a publisher at this point?

#20 Posted by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

@Hailinel: it was dropped by THQ so.. nothing yet. not much news at all on Devil's Third since its reveal.

#21 Posted by Demoskinos (14770 posts) -

@AjayRaz: Im going to guess that is most likely partially due to some bad translation work. Although itagaki is sort of weird in general. Although really concerning Tekken at least dude had a point Death by Degrees sucked as well as every other Tekken spin off they tried. And every game since Tekken 3 has just been getting worse and worse. Still flabbergasted that I'm actually enjoying TTT2 so much although it still suffers from having way way to many people that play alike.

#22 Posted by Demoskinos (14770 posts) -

@AjayRaz said:

@Hailinel: it was dropped by THQ so.. nothing yet. not much news at all on Devil's Third since its reveal.

Nothing yet BUT THQ did drop all the rights to Itagaki so they are free to shop it around at least.

#23 Posted by mpgeist (597 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.

Oh of course he has (it took me a while to conect the dots but the man making Ninja Gaiden would definitely hate on DMC)... Devil's Thrid needs to come out now!

People give Itagaki shit for being an arrogant asshole but look at how Team Ninja fell apart after he left. He may be arrogant but you can't ever be the best in the world unless you think you're the best in the world. Itagaki brought that confidence with him wherever he went. I really hope Devil's Third manages to see the light of day. We haven't seen ANYTHING since the debut trailer. I'm...a bit worried honestly.

TN does seem bit aimless, but from reading around the web, DoA5 is shaping up to be the best in the series (we'll see). I'm just glad the characters look more realistic now, it felt like their models hadn't been updated since DoA2.

#24 Posted by Hailinel (24413 posts) -

@mpgeist said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.

Oh of course he has (it took me a while to conect the dots but the man making Ninja Gaiden would definitely hate on DMC)... Devil's Thrid needs to come out now!

People give Itagaki shit for being an arrogant asshole but look at how Team Ninja fell apart after he left. He may be arrogant but you can't ever be the best in the world unless you think you're the best in the world. Itagaki brought that confidence with him wherever he went. I really hope Devil's Third manages to see the light of day. We haven't seen ANYTHING since the debut trailer. I'm...a bit worried honestly.

TN does seem bit aimless, but from reading around the web, DoA5 is shaping up to be the best in the series (we'll see). I'm just glad the characters look more realistic now, it felt like their models hadn't been updated since DoA2.

As someone that went back to DOA2: Hardcore not too long ago, I can definitely say that's not the case. The designs haven't changed all that much, but holy crap, the graphic detail has improved waaaaaay more than I thought.

Rose tints will do that to you.

#25 Posted by mpgeist (597 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@mpgeist said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.

Oh of course he has (it took me a while to conect the dots but the man making Ninja Gaiden would definitely hate on DMC)... Devil's Thrid needs to come out now!

People give Itagaki shit for being an arrogant asshole but look at how Team Ninja fell apart after he left. He may be arrogant but you can't ever be the best in the world unless you think you're the best in the world. Itagaki brought that confidence with him wherever he went. I really hope Devil's Third manages to see the light of day. We haven't seen ANYTHING since the debut trailer. I'm...a bit worried honestly.

TN does seem bit aimless, but from reading around the web, DoA5 is shaping up to be the best in the series (we'll see). I'm just glad the characters look more realistic now, it felt like their models hadn't been updated since DoA2.

As someone that went back to DOA2: Hardcore not too long ago, I can definitely say that's not the case. The designs haven't changed all that much, but holy crap, the graphic detail has improved waaaaaay more than I thought.

Rose tints will do that to you.

I know what you're saying and I was being a little hyperbolic. DoA games have always been graphical treats for their respective systems, so I think that's why it's held up a little better.

#26 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

@AjayRaz said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.

Oh of course he has (it took me a while to conect the dots but the man making Ninja Gaiden would definitely hate on DMC)... Devil's Thrid needs to come out now!

People give Itagaki shit for being an arrogant asshole but look at how Team Ninja fell apart after he left. He may be arrogant but you can't ever be the best in the world unless you think you're the best in the world. Itagaki brought that confidence with him wherever he went. I really hope Devil's Third manages to see the light of day. We haven't seen ANYTHING since the debut trailer. I'm...a bit worried honestly.

yea, i don't dig Itagaki's attitude all that much but i can't deny that he's made some great games. can't really blame him for being cocky but in regards to what he said about Tekken:

I no longer can figure out what the hell they're trying to do with the numbering, and I don't know which one is which. I don't know what they're trying to do with all of these spin-offs, so this includes Nina: Death by Degrees as well. I don't think it even needs saying, but people should stay away from Tekken. Nothing left to say. I just don't want them to disappoint me any more. It's so annoying. Please don't annoy me any more.

what the fuck does that even mean? "i can't figure out why they're numbering their games. also why the hell are they making spinoffs? i don't get it. it's not like i made Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball or anything."

it's funny to read, though. so strange.

I acutally like that sure he's arrogant but I don't know it's something (now even less) you don't see in the industry where everything about lead designers is very stilled and polite when Ninja Gaiden was at it's peak and he was Tecmo's face it kinda gave the company a personality his in particular , is something I notice more with japanese devs like Konami with Kojima and Miyamoto with Nintendo, sure they don't represent the whole company and they're part of a bigger team that makes a lot of those dudes ideas come true but having those faces makes you see those companies as something other than just a business trying to make money is almost like gaming's own "celebrities" but you know cooler because they make good stuff.

#27 Posted by Hailinel (24413 posts) -

@AngelN7 said:

@AjayRaz said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.

Oh of course he has (it took me a while to conect the dots but the man making Ninja Gaiden would definitely hate on DMC)... Devil's Thrid needs to come out now!

People give Itagaki shit for being an arrogant asshole but look at how Team Ninja fell apart after he left. He may be arrogant but you can't ever be the best in the world unless you think you're the best in the world. Itagaki brought that confidence with him wherever he went. I really hope Devil's Third manages to see the light of day. We haven't seen ANYTHING since the debut trailer. I'm...a bit worried honestly.

yea, i don't dig Itagaki's attitude all that much but i can't deny that he's made some great games. can't really blame him for being cocky but in regards to what he said about Tekken:

I no longer can figure out what the hell they're trying to do with the numbering, and I don't know which one is which. I don't know what they're trying to do with all of these spin-offs, so this includes Nina: Death by Degrees as well. I don't think it even needs saying, but people should stay away from Tekken. Nothing left to say. I just don't want them to disappoint me any more. It's so annoying. Please don't annoy me any more.

what the fuck does that even mean? "i can't figure out why they're numbering their games. also why the hell are they making spinoffs? i don't get it. it's not like i made Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball or anything."

it's funny to read, though. so strange.

I acutally like that sure he's arrogant but I don't know it's something (now even less) you don't see in the industry where everything about lead designers is very stilled and polite when Ninja Gaiden was at it's peak and he was Tecmo's face it kinda gave the company a personality his in particular , is something I notice more with japanese devs like Konami with Kojima and Miyamoto with Nintendo, sure they don't represent the whole company and they're part of a bigger team that makes a lot of those dudes ideas come true but having those faces makes you see those companies as something other than just a business trying to make money is almost like gaming's own "celebrities" but you know cooler because they make good stuff.

There's also something to be said for not being brash and arrogant in your job. Sure, when you're hot, your hot, but when you screw up or fail to perform as well, it just increases the size of the target on your back.

#28 Posted by ninjalegend (428 posts) -

Cool retrospective. I bought the first DOA on PS1 when I was a kid. I had played both Virtua Fighter 2 and Tekken 2. As much as I liked Tekken 2, VF2 was the game I preferred, and wanted more of that style of 3D fighter. DOA fit that bill, but i was so burnt out on fighting games by that time, it was only a side note to me.

The next gen of consoles wowed me with the Dreamcast Soul Calibur, but Tekken Tag while good left me a little flat. I was out of fighting games for a while. The Xbox Ninja Gaiden came out, and was one of my favorite games of all time. This prompted me to get DOA3 and the superior DOA2 ultimate when it came out on Xbox. I played 4 as well, but DOA2 on Xbox is my favorite 3D fighter with VF4 evolution in close second. I recall choosing Bayman and using a grapple system that took my opponent to the ground. I then could use more grapples while my opponent was still on the ground. Most 3D fighters kept it limited to a punch, kick, or fall attack ala VF. This really set apart the grappler Bayman from the strikers. The variations of fighting styles accompanying the disciplines of the characters then became more apparent to me. Not quite VF levels of differentiation, but close enough. Too bad it's hidden behind all the boob.

#29 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@AngelN7 said:

@AjayRaz said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 said:

@Demoskinos said:

@AngelN7 Yeah, Itagaki talked shit on Devil May Cry as well.

Oh of course he has (it took me a while to conect the dots but the man making Ninja Gaiden would definitely hate on DMC)... Devil's Thrid needs to come out now!

People give Itagaki shit for being an arrogant asshole but look at how Team Ninja fell apart after he left. He may be arrogant but you can't ever be the best in the world unless you think you're the best in the world. Itagaki brought that confidence with him wherever he went. I really hope Devil's Third manages to see the light of day. We haven't seen ANYTHING since the debut trailer. I'm...a bit worried honestly.

yea, i don't dig Itagaki's attitude all that much but i can't deny that he's made some great games. can't really blame him for being cocky but in regards to what he said about Tekken:

I no longer can figure out what the hell they're trying to do with the numbering, and I don't know which one is which. I don't know what they're trying to do with all of these spin-offs, so this includes Nina: Death by Degrees as well. I don't think it even needs saying, but people should stay away from Tekken. Nothing left to say. I just don't want them to disappoint me any more. It's so annoying. Please don't annoy me any more.

what the fuck does that even mean? "i can't figure out why they're numbering their games. also why the hell are they making spinoffs? i don't get it. it's not like i made Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball or anything."

it's funny to read, though. so strange.

I acutally like that sure he's arrogant but I don't know it's something (now even less) you don't see in the industry where everything about lead designers is very stilled and polite when Ninja Gaiden was at it's peak and he was Tecmo's face it kinda gave the company a personality his in particular , is something I notice more with japanese devs like Konami with Kojima and Miyamoto with Nintendo, sure they don't represent the whole company and they're part of a bigger team that makes a lot of those dudes ideas come true but having those faces makes you see those companies as something other than just a business trying to make money is almost like gaming's own "celebrities" but you know cooler because they make good stuff.

There's also something to be said for not being brash and arrogant in your job. Sure, when you're hot, your hot, but when you screw up or fail to perform as well, it just increases the size of the target on your back.

As it should , it not positive to portray yourself like that when you're in that position but for some reason I kinda respect it.

#30 Posted by Apathylad (3066 posts) -

Neat. So are you gonna re-watch the Dead or Alive movie while you're at it?

#31 Posted by envane (1162 posts) -

yeha i really enjoyed brads fightign style in ... uhh doa3 ? i cant even remeber what i played last .. but yeah .. drunken style ftw .. made me actuallty start to think they were taking the fighting game part more seriously now , then doa beach volleyball happened

#32 Posted by Hailinel (24413 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

@AjayRaz said:

@Hailinel: it was dropped by THQ so.. nothing yet. not much news at all on Devil's Third since its reveal.

Nothing yet BUT THQ did drop all the rights to Itagaki so they are free to shop it around at least.

Someone should call Nintendo and see about making it Wii U exclusive.

#33 Posted by zyn (2591 posts) -

Great write up! I, too, started on Dead or Alive 3 before thinking to myself, "how did I miss this series?!" and immediately purchased Dead or Alive: Ultimate when it was available. The thing that sets DoA apart from other fighting games are, as you have written, the "crazy breast bounce and a cool counter system".

Long live Dead or Alive!

#34 Edited by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Apathylad said:

Neat. So are you gonna re-watch the Dead or Alive movie while you're at it?

We all should! That movie is a masterpiece!

Except Ayane who is baaaaaaaaad.

#35 Edited by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

@ninjalegend: thanks for sharing. it's cool to read about people who played this when they were younger considering that i never see anybody talk about this much. Dead or Alive 2 Ultimate is one of the best games in the series, that's for sure.

@zyn: i bet Dead or Alive 3 is where a lot of people got on board with the series. people needed something to play on their Xbox alongside Halo.

@Apathylad said:

Neat. So are you gonna re-watch the Dead or Alive movie while you're at it?

NO

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

ANYTHING BUT THAT

#36 Posted by TopSteer (643 posts) -

I think DOA 2 Hardcore was my first DOA game. I'm pretty sure the next one in the series I played was DOA 4, which was the first game I played on the 360. I didn't play fighting games much at all back then, I've only really started getting into them the last couple of years. DOA is my favorite of the 3D fighters so I'm pretty excited for 5.

#37 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

@Apathylad said:

Neat. So are you gonna re-watch the Dead or Alive movie while you're at it?

I saw that movie for free when I was sick and, honestly, it was the perfect way to watch that movie. I enjoyed it thorougly. I think maybe because I was in and out of conciousness and still not missing anything...

#38 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

@AjayRaz said:

@JazGalaxy: ah wow, thanks for the perspective!

there are only four ninjas on the Dead or Alive roster, which at this point, is.. what, 26? 28? somewhere around those numbers. regardless, the ninjas don't take up too much of the roster. it could be a lot worse. although that's a different story when it comes to the story and character development, where the ninjas are the star of the show. in that case, i understand because it's lame how characters like Lei Fang and Brad Wong don't get as much development as the other characters.

Zack and Bass are great characters, however. they're silly and obnoxious to an extent, but they're really powerful opponents with the right player behind the controller. Zack has a great set of tools at his disposal that can make him a really tricky opponent, and Bass's sheer aggression makes him kind of intimidating. it's real tough to shake a Bass player once you're right where he wants you.

are there really only 4 ninjas? I mean, I guess I knew that, but it always seems like so many more becuase the focus is always on them. Plus I think Hayate is just a bad character. Also, and don't kill me for this, I have never liked Ayane's character design. With the purple hair and red eyes, It's like she's a film negative of a real person.

It's been a while, but I was always a huge fan of the kung fu characters. I always really loved how, in DOA, when you team characters who should be a team, you got special little animations or whatever. That was a great little touch. I haven't played DOA 4 since it launched on Xbox and my brohter and I played it nonstop for a good long while, but I also seem to recall really liking one of the new characters in that game.

#39 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

My intro to the series was DOA2 hardcore and I never player the first game until the ultimate version. I found it a interesting history lesson on the series more than a quality game. I honestly never played it much. It feels nothing like DOA2. That game is a massive inprovment.

#40 Posted by bearshamanbro (284 posts) -

Really looking forward to getting this game next week. Haven't played much DOA since 2 on the Dreamcast, but that was such a good game at the time. I've played the alpha demo of DOA5 quite a bit and think it's pretty good. Graphics are really good, and gameplay seems like a more casual VF. Really enjoying TTT2 right now, but I'll be supporting this game and rotating it in.

#41 Posted by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

My intro to the series was DOA2 hardcore and I never player the first game until the ultimate version. I found it a interesting history lesson on the series more than a quality game. I honestly never played it much. It feels nothing like DOA2. That game is a massive inprovment.

that's pretty much how i feel about it. it's nice to see the series roots, but if i was ever going to play a DOA game, i don't think i'd ever go for Dead or Alive 1 unless i'm interested in how a versus match plays out. who knows, maybe that's where the game shines.

@JazGalaxy: Ayane, Hayabusa, Hayate and Kasumi are the only ninjas. Hayate is probably the most boring, uninteresting character on the roster. he's just so... anime. the special tag team grabs and intro / win animations are super awesome, too. some of them, like the ones with Eliot + Brad Wong and Kasumi + Gen Fu are kickass

#42 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

@AjayRaz said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

My intro to the series was DOA2 hardcore and I never player the first game until the ultimate version. I found it a interesting history lesson on the series more than a quality game. I honestly never played it much. It feels nothing like DOA2. That game is a massive inprovment.

that's pretty much how i feel about it. it's nice to see the series roots, but if i was ever going to play a DOA game, i don't think i'd ever go for Dead or Alive 1 unless i'm interested in how a versus match plays out. who knows, maybe that's where the game shines.

@JazGalaxy: Ayane, Hayabusa, Hayate and Kasumi are the only ninjas. Hayate is probably the most boring, uninteresting character on the roster. he's just so... anime. the special tag team grabs and intro / win animations are super awesome, too. some of them, like the ones with Eliot + Brad Wong and Kasumi + Gen Fu are kickass

Kasumi and Gen Fu are a legit tag team? I need to check this out now. I see where you are going from in regards to Hayate. Although I do enjoy playing as him. In DOA5 the word on the street is that Hayate play style is real boring now. Relying on the stun system too much. When some characters such as Jann Lee are getting great new tools that is disappointing.

#43 Posted by AjayRaz (12424 posts) -

@ImmortalSaiyan: they don't have their own tag animation, but they have a great tag team move where Gen-Fu lifts kasumi up in the air, she kicks the opponent in the air and Gen-Fu catches her like he does with opponents in DOA3. at least, that's how i remember the move going but i don't see that tag too often.

#44 Posted by Sagalla (217 posts) -

Unlike you I did play the original Dead or Alive on Playstation first. It was fun for a little while but was clearly outclassed by Tekken 2 and 2d fighters like Street Fighter Alpha. But Dead or Alive 2 on the Dreamcast was a terrific game and I played the hell out of that. I passed on 3 and 4 but I have pre-ordered the Collector's edition of DOA 5 and hopefully it will the the definitive Dead or Alive game :)

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