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    Deadly Premonition

    Game » consists of 11 releases. Released Feb 23, 2010

    An open-world action-adventure game following an eccentric FBI agent as he investigates a series of bizarre murders in the small rural town of Greenvale.

    Questions and thoughts about VJ and DP in general (Spoilers)

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    h0lgr

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    #1  Edited By h0lgr

    -Why did they aim at Emily? What did they think was gonna happen, really? I mean, Vinny was kinda sorry she died.
    But that choice obviously was going to make her dead dead dead dead. Like for real. 

    -There's nobody left in the police station, at all. York (Zach?) cleared out the place of all the "zombies" and the major
    players in that place are dead. George, Emily, Thomas. Gone. Dude, also, they cleared out most of the other places...

    -How will people see Zach? Do they (for example doc Ushah) see Zach with the white hair and stuff, and does he
    notice the change? What do you think?
     
    -What the fuck happened to Nick?
     
    -How will the whole zombie thing be explained, you think? I mean, in the cutscenes, when the citizens are affected
    by the seeds or the smoke, they don't become zombies. They just become crazy. So what the fuck is going on?
     
    I guess we'll see tomorrow... Give me your thoughts!

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    Turambar

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    #2  Edited By Turambar

    People don't see Zach any differently.  They've always seen Zach.  Remember all the rumor around town about York's little scratches?  They were in fact talking about Zach's gigantic scar.  The player only thought they were playing as York because Zach was repressing all his own personality, and projecting an idealized self that only he and the player could see and hear.

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    mutha3

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    #3  Edited By mutha3
    @Turambar: The people York shot down in the Other World were Zombies, not living humans.
     
    You can kinda see, when you look at all their discomposed part;0
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    joeybagad0nutz

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    #4  Edited By joeybagad0nutz

    My question is that what would have happened if Zach (Was he York when this happened???) chosen to shoot himself or point the gun at Kaysen. Would Emily still have pulled the tree outta her??
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    Make_Me_Mad

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    #5  Edited By Make_Me_Mad

    Personal opinion on the Emily thing is that they probably guessed that it was the correct choice from Zach's father's speech to them in the flashback, and from seeing what happened to Zach's mother when his father didn't shoot her.  With the choice between getting mummified painfully by some freaky parasitic tree that tears out of her stomach, or just getting shot, they didn't have too much of a choice anyways.

    I'm still not convinced any of the zombies were actually real, considering that time seemed to have stopped whenever they were encountered.

    And as far as Zach goes, it seems like everyone else in the game has seen him from the start, and only the player was seeing York.  I'm only basing that off of how a lot of people mentioned the scar on York's face like it was huge and noticeable when they were practically just scrapes on his cheek.  It would make a lot more sense if they had been talking about Zach's massive facial scar instead, and the scars on York's cheek were just there to make you not think about it too much.

    No idea what happened to Nick, but he's probably going to be really confused when he gets out of jail and finds out half the town died while he was in the basement.

    I don't think the zombie thing will be explained at all, at least in the game.  I did see this chart thingy a while back, though, which... doesn't really clear anything up, but hey, it's interesting!

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    sixghost

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    #6  Edited By sixghost
    @h0lgr said:
    " -Why did they aim at Emily? What did they think was gonna happen, really? I mean, Vinny was kinda sorry she died.
    But that choice obviously was going to make her dead dead dead dead. Like for real.  -There's nobody left in the police station, at all. York (Zach?) cleared out the place of all the "zombies" and the major players in that place are dead. George, Emily, Thomas. Gone. Dude, also, they cleared out most of the other places... -How will people see Zach? Do they (for example doc Ushah) see Zach with the white hair and stuff, and does he notice the change? What do you think?  -What the fuck happened to Nick?  -How will the whole zombie thing be explained, you think? I mean, in the cutscenes, when the citizens are affected by the seeds or the smoke, they don't become zombies. They just become crazy. So what the fuck is going on?  I guess we'll see tomorrow... Give me your thoughts! "

    You have to aim at Emily, that's the only way you can progress. I don't know what you mean by the second point. They have only ever seen Zach. During the epilogue if you talk to one of the characters, they will say something like, "york? who's that?" I have no idea what the hell happened to Nick, good point. I'm sure he just stayed in the cell until the epilogue. Remember, York was in the other world police station, so none of that effected Nick.

    There's no further explanation for the Zombies, so you'll be disappointed if you need that justified. Harry mentioned something about the gas seeping into the soil of the town, and it partially being released when it rains. That's all I got, it doesn't really seem like a big deal to me.

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    MiniPato

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    #7  Edited By MiniPato

    I think they aimed  at Emily because they figured they had to do what Zach's father couldn't. And it might be better than becoming a withered corpse tree. Aiming at Kaysen seemed like the "give into the Dark Side!" move. And aiming at your own head is corny.
     
    Personally, I don't think everything will be wrapped up in a coherent way. Feels like there will just be a bunch of story threads left for the fans to speculate and tie up in their own way.

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    Turambar

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    #8  Edited By Turambar
    @mutha3: I didn't really mention anything about that.  Though yeah, just what they are is interesting.  My original theory was they were some psychological effect that Zach/York goes through because of something Kaysen perhaps infected them with.  But we know that they do in fact exist under the proper conditions for people other than York because Emily could see them, and that was well prior to any attacks that were made on her. 
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    emkeighcameron

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    #9  Edited By emkeighcameron

    Zombie thing is never explained.
     
    Gotta kill Emily because getting eaten from inside out by a tree is a sucky way to die, bullet to the brain = better   (plus the game gives you a GAME OVER if you try to shoot Kaysen)
     
    Nick disappears into the East, always, to the East.

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    h0lgr

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    #10  Edited By h0lgr

    Alright guys, thanks. I seem to have gotten some good answers here.

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    ChickenPants

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    #11  Edited By ChickenPants

    Emily was obviously going to die either way. Did you not see that the whole point of the flashback to what really happened at Zach's parent's death to show that the right thing to do was to kill his mother and spare her mummification.The game was telling you that it was the right thing to do despite the horror of you being the one to kill her; consider it euthanasia.
     
    No big deal, they'll have others to replace them.Still don't know if the zombies were actually people or something else.
     
    ........People always saw York as Zach. 'York' as we know it was just an idealised persona that the scared and vulnerable Zach had fabricated for himself.Sure the people saw York's strong personality traits but they were always looking at the blonde hair and scarred face of Zach. We just saw what Zach wanted us to see; the image he had constructed over a long period of time of himself.
     
    Released from station and back with his wife. He was bit part player, a minor distraction/tension builder.
     
    No idea if it will be explained, I personally don't think it will. I always saw it as Zach battling his inner demons; relating to his parent's death etc.

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    endaround

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    #12  Edited By endaround

    Look at 30:45, Nick is with everbody else at the clocktower.  So yeah...

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    mikemcn

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    #13  Edited By mikemcn

    WHY DIDN'T THEY SHOOT KAYSEN! EMILY WAS DEAD EITHER WAY!
     
    They were going on something Zach's dad said when they didnt even know he was a good guy until 10 seconds before making the choice. Im sure Kaysen would have survived the shot but that still seemed like the logical choice, before they knew he was a demon/alien/mutant plant.

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    EToaster

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    #14  Edited By EToaster

    50 years ago, a ton of people killed each other while insane from purple gas.  Now, when it rains, purple gas seeps out of the ground.  Everytime you're in Otherworld, there's purple gas around.   I'd say the enemies you fight are the spirits of those who died 50 years ago.
     
    If you look at the chart Swery recently posted as well, it seems to indicate that someone that dies full of malice and negative emotions becomes a Shadow, which is what the game calls its enemies when you find the card for them.   Although, I'm not sure what that means for Thomas and Carol who both seemed to be pretty pissed at Emily when they died, yet became "goddesses".

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    ChickenPants

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    #15  Edited By ChickenPants
    @EToaster said:
    " 50 years ago, a ton of people killed each other while insane from purple gas.  Now, when it rains, purple gas seeps out of the ground.  Everytime you're in Otherworld, there's purple gas around.   I'd say the enemies you fight are the spirits of those who died 50 years ago.
     

    I agree with this sentiment.
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    kevinski

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    #16  Edited By kevinski
    @Turambar said:
    "Remember all the rumor around town about York's little scratches?  They were in fact talking about Zach's gigantic scar."
    I never thought of that. It makes sense, though. Good catch.
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    MiniPato

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    #17  Edited By MiniPato
    I don't get why everyone's concerned about Nick. He's not that great a character.
     

    Why didn't George go after Gina? Is his little sex club for un-married women only? Quite noble for a murderer obsessed with beautiful women.
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    Niche

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    #18  Edited By Niche

     The thing I'm confused about is York and Zach's names in conversation. So every time Zach said "Call me York, that's what everyone calls me", he was actually saying "Call me Zach"? And every time someone says "Zach" to him he hears "York" in his mind until he has the flashback? 

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    kevinski

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    #19  Edited By kevinski
    @Niche said:
    "  The thing I'm confused about is York and Zach's names in conversation. So every time Zach said "Call me York, that's what everyone calls me", he was actually saying "Call me Zach"? And every time someone says "Zach" to him he hears "York" in his mind until he has the flashback?  "
    Nah, I think that he was actually saying York. I just wonder which one his badge displayed...if the middle name was even on it.
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    ChickenPants

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    #20  Edited By ChickenPants
    @Niche said:
    "  The thing I'm confused about is York and Zach's names in conversation. So every time Zach said "Call me York, that's what everyone calls me", he was actually saying "Call me Zach"? And every time someone says "Zach" to him he hears "York" in his mind until he has the flashback?  "
    Hmm, I think in the conversations he was actually saying that his name was York- just an extension of the persona he had created.
    Think the way Emily was like ''I finally know Zach now'' confirmed this.
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    Niche

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    #21  Edited By Niche
    @ChickenPants:  Does she say that near the end? The reason I'm confused is that Emily suddenly starts calling him Zach right after he's had the flashback.
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    ChickenPants

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    #22  Edited By ChickenPants
    @Niche: Hmm now that you mention it, I'm not sure. Think it would be a bit of a stretch for his mind to subconsciously switch Zach for York everytime.
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    h0lgr

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    #23  Edited By h0lgr
    @Mikemcn: Exactly, Emily had a huge tree in her stomach, so the one to shoot is Kaysen. Emily was gunna die anyway.
    Like really, just fucking shoot Kaysen, that's what Zach ended up doing anyways. Zach was too weak even still, he couldn't even
    shoot her.
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    KowalskiManDown

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    #24  Edited By KowalskiManDown
    @endaround said:
    " Look at 30:45, Nick is with everbody else at the clocktower.  So yeah... "
    Was literally just about to post that.
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    deactivated-58c3985c661d1

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    @ChickenPants said:
    " @Niche said:
    "  The thing I'm confused about is York and Zach's names in conversation. So every time Zach said "Call me York, that's what everyone calls me", he was actually saying "Call me Zach"? And every time someone says "Zach" to him he hears "York" in his mind until he has the flashback?  "
    Hmm, I think in the conversations he was actually saying that his name was York- just an extension of the persona he had created. Think the way Emily was like ''I finally know Zach now'' confirmed this. "
    did she say that? I don't remember. 
     
    But wasn't emily saying shoot me york, or something then he had his flashback then she was like shoot me zach? I thought that kind of showed that whenever york was mentioned, it was actually zach. and dude, zach is ugly, at least with a beard. shitt, thats the point tho :P so neways
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    Wipeout

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    #26  Edited By Wipeout

    I don't think the crazy-land zombies are real, I think they are the hallucinogenic effects of the seeds taking effect.  I think York does his best investigation work when under mild influence of the gas emitted by the seeds, which is why he always wants to go in alone.  At some point he had accepted the dangers of the seeds without really understanding what made them dangerous.  It makes sense that the zombies aren't real when you factor in that sometimes they infinitely respawn.  It's all in the person's mind.  Thats why the places all look so dilapidated and vined-over when you're exploring them in crazy mode.   The infinite guns you find in the spirit realm probably fire imaginary bullets, a placebo gun created by your mind that works because your mind thinks it should.
     
    Notice how York goes completely insane if you let the time bar deplete as the room fills with "gas".  This would mean that he has overdosed, and gone townfolk-crazy.  This first lead me to think that he was the killer, affected by the gas emitted by the seeds in the rain.  However, the story went a difference direction and it turns out that anyone can seem crazy when dosed with enough of the gas-seed.

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    mikemcn

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    #27  Edited By mikemcn
    @h0lgr said:
    " @Mikemcn: Exactly, Emily had a huge tree in her stomach, so the one to shoot is Kaysen. Emily was gunna die anyway.Like really, just fucking shoot Kaysen, that's what Zach ended up doing anyways. Zach was too weak even still, he couldn't even shoot her. "
    I also recently discovered Kaysen is an Instant game over if you choose that...... oh well. I still feel like that would have been the superior choice in the moment.
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    ChickenPants

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    #28  Edited By ChickenPants
    @h0lgr: What good would it of been to shoot Kaysen. Did you see how crazy George was because of his dealings with the red seeds.Zach knew that no good would of come from throwing one measly bullet at Kaysen in Emily's time of need.Kaysen wanted Zach to shoot him. It was one of the weak irrational decisions given to you.You shoot Kaysen , he brushes it off and laughs, Emily is turned into roots.Zach,horrified succumbs to Kaysen's true form.
     
    Did you not get the message of the beautiful and climatic cutscenes before it.The whole game we saw Xander portrayed as some terrible guy and the reason behind 'York's' torment.This is then all flipped on its head when we see Xander unable to offer his wife some last respite.Overcome by horror he shoots himself.This is a clear message of what you have to do.In order to break the like father-like-son generational cycle you have to do the courageous thing and kill the one you love.
     
    Brilliant stuff :)
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    ryanwho

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    #29  Edited By ryanwho

    From a narrative standpoint its clear the choice they're leaning on for you to make is to shoot Emily, and I don't see why that's so hard for people to understand. The scene was preceded by the father making the wrong choice and telling you to make the right one. "She's going to die anyway" completely misses the point. If you had to choose between getting shot in the head and being drained of life from a fucking tree, which one do you imagine would be less painful? This isn't rocket science children.

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    kevinski

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    #30  Edited By kevinski
    @Make_Me_Mad said:
    I don't think the zombie thing will be explained at all, at least in the game.  I did see this chart thingy a while back, though, which... doesn't really clear anything up, but hey, it's interesting! "
    As I mentioned in that topic, the chart does seem to insinuate that things that're outside of the real world (represented by the inner circle) can take physical forms (despite the things outside of the real world being nothing more than thoughts). Given the fact that the mysterious shadow enemies could be represented as "Shadow" on the chart, it'd make sense that the zombies are completely imaginary. The problem with that theory is that I seem to recall Swery saying somewhere that the other world events are truly happening. I suppose that it could've only "truly" happened in a psychological manner. 
     
    While some may argue the fact that Emily sees the mysterious shadows at one point, that IS a situation in which she's probably undergoing a considerable amount of emotional stress (primarily because she doesn't know whether or not York's okay). I originally felt that the zombies were 100% real, but the main thing that supports the theory that they're not to be taken literally is the fact that everything that takes place in those other world sequences appears in a figurative and symbolic fashion. 
     
    For example, take Becky's murder, for instance. Before things return to normal, doesn't the blood on Becky's bed appear as red satin? Once things return to normal, however, you see it for what it really is...blood. It's not so much that York (or Emily, in the one scene) is crazy; he's just under a lot of stress under those situations, whether he displays it or not. It's like you're playing through his mind, in a way.
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    s-a-n-JR

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    #31  Edited By s-a-n-JR

    I would have used Dia on her.
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    sixghost

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    #32  Edited By sixghost
    @kevinski said:
    " @Make_Me_Mad said:
    I don't think the zombie thing will be explained at all, at least in the game.  I did see this chart thingy a while back, though, which... doesn't really clear anything up, but hey, it's interesting! "
    As I mentioned in that topic, the chart does seem to insinuate that things that're outside of the real world (represented by the inner circle) can take physical forms (despite the things outside of the real world being nothing more than thoughts). Given the fact that the mysterious shadow enemies could be represented as "Shadow" on the chart, it'd make sense that the zombies are completely imaginary. The problem with that theory is that I seem to recall Swery saying somewhere that the other world events are truly happening. I suppose that it could've only "truly" happened in a psychological manner.  While some may argue the fact that Emily sees the mysterious shadows at one point, that IS a situation in which she's probably undergoing a considerable amount of emotional stress (primarily because she doesn't know whether or not York's okay). I originally felt that the zombies were 100% real, but the main thing that supports the theory that they're not to be taken literally is the fact that everything that takes place in those other world sequences appears in a figurative and symbolic fashion.  For example, take Becky's murder, for instance. Before things return to normal, doesn't the blood on Becky's bed appear as red satin? Once things return to normal, however, you see it for what it really is...blood. It's not so much that York (or Emily, in the one scene) is crazy; he's just under a lot of stress under those situations, whether he displays it or not. It's like you're playing through his mind, in a way. "
    That makes me wonder, (epilogue spoiler)  

    If that's true, then could that mean that York was the one dealing with the other-world dungeons? 

    Also, is there some meaning to York going to the Red Room earlier in the game, then the White and Forest rooms later in the game?

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    Urmean

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    #33  Edited By Urmean
    @Sanj said:
    " I would have used Dia on her. "
    Best use some Recarm, son.
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    kevinski

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    #34  Edited By kevinski
    @sixghost said: 

    "If that's true, then could that mean that York was the one dealing with the other-world dungeons? 

    Also, is there some meaning to York going to the Red Room earlier in the game, then the White and Forest rooms later in the game?"

    I believe that York IS handling the dungeons, but I believe that Zach is literally going through them to a certain extent. For example, let's say that York's going through the police station in pursuit of George and shooting up zombies along the way. What's Zach doing? I assume that he's probably just looking around the place, probably even with his gun holstered the entire time. Now, that theory falls apart when you consider the fact that George and Kaysen obviously had some crazy stuff going on. I don't know how to explain that part. 
     
    I do believe that Zach actually fights Thomas, George and Kaysen, but I believe that Thomas' battle is probably the closest one to being a literal battle. I suppose that it might be a tad far-fetched in terms of how it unfolds, but it's somewhat believable. As for George and Kaysen, perhaps they're both just two crazy guys who have very vivid imaginations, so they just kinda trickle into York's other world. 
     
    Problem is, if the whole crazy tree plot isn't to be taken literally, then what really happened to Zach's mother? The problem is that making sense of one thing generally makes another thing completely impossible. Perhaps the whole plot surround the red trees and the seeds is completely symbolic of something else? I mean, you could draw parallels to pregnancy and whatnot, but it still shoots holes into what happened between Kaysen and Xander (and Zach's mother - I can't remember her name).
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    kevinski

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    #35  Edited By kevinski
    @Mikemcn said:
    I also recently discovered Kaysen is an Instant game over if you choose that...... oh well. I still feel like that would have been the superior choice in the moment. "
    Actually, you don't get a game over screen. I believe that you're taken to the white room, which I'm pretty sure is supposed to represent a space in which any decision that seriously alters Zach's quest for identity and understanding for better or for worse. You just get taken back to the same scene again and make another choice. Shooting Emily IS the only option that allows you to proceed, but you're not penalized for making the wrong choice.
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    I_smell

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    #36  Edited By I_smell

    I wanna know what the millitary has to do with anything. 50 years ago, the purple haze was spread around by millitary guys, and Kaysen was in the army for some reason. And Mr Stewart said they wiped all public knowledge of the incident. What?
    @Mikemcn said:

    "I also recently discovered Kaysen is an Instant game over if you choose that...... oh well. I still feel like that would have been the superior choice in the moment. "
    Kaysen's invincible and Emily's begging for you to shoot her. How can you get that wrong?
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    mikemcn

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    #37  Edited By mikemcn
    @I_smell said:
    " I wanna know what the millitary has to do with anything. 50 years ago, the purple haze was spread around by millitary guys, and Kaysen was in the army for some reason. And Mr Stewart said they wiped all public knowledge of the incident. What?
    @Mikemcn said:
    "I also recently discovered Kaysen is an Instant game over if you choose that...... oh well. I still feel like that would have been the superior choice in the moment. "
    Kaysen's invincible and Emily's begging for you to shoot her. How can you get that wrong? "
    We didnt know he was invincible, all we knew is he had a freaky tongue (In comparison to much of what we've seen in that town, its not that weird.), and York's father didn't try and kill Kaysen which is why he was in Greenvale causing all sorts of ruckus. He was the best thing to shoot.
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    I_smell

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    #38  Edited By I_smell

    They showed him looking exactly the same in 1956 and in the scene with Zach's dad, so it's a pretty safe bet that he's immortal.
    Also you can kind of guess that he's on the seeds, bein that he grows em.

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    yakityyakblah

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    #39  Edited By yakityyakblah

    Many years of videogames have taught them that when I game repeats something a billion times you follow it's advice. All through the game it was saying, sometimes you got to shoot people you love. So given that situation they followed the advice. 
     
    It's a chekov's gun scenario, if you establish this situation and reference it repeatedly you know that the current choice is directly related. 

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    h0lgr

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    #40  Edited By h0lgr

    One more question: Why did the military spread the seeds/smoke in the 50's?
    Do we have any kind of motive from Kaysen or the other guys who were there? What would the military
    gain from doing that? I remember Kaysen was laughing in that scene...

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    Legend

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    #41  Edited By Legend
    @h0lgr: They were probably developing some sort of biological weapon and they were testing it in Greenvale.
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    h0lgr

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    #42  Edited By h0lgr

    Yeah, I guess you're right, but Kaysen still doesn't have a motive as far as the killings go.
    Unless of course the gas affected him in the long run.

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    #43  Edited By Legend
    @h0lgr: I think it's pretty clear that Kaysen isn't human. The story isn't over yet as hinted in the conclusion. I think Swery left that part unexplained on purpose because he intends to explore Kaysen's past and motives in the sequel. He stated on several occasions that he'd love to make a sequel if he can.
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    Dylabaloo

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    #44  Edited By Dylabaloo
    @h0lgr: I think what kaysen gets out of these recent murders (because he obviously killed ladies 50 years or more ago to become immortal) is fun, no true reason besides he's immortal he's bored so he plays along in this elaborate game just for kicks. Sometimes pure evil has no motives but just to fuel its own lust, boredom and insanity.
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    #45  Edited By jclane

    The only question I want answered as of now is what happened to Harry's father (original R.Killer)? We last saw him roaring in anger up at Kaysen who was standing on the clock tower.Did he succumb to madness or is there more to it?

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    #46  Edited By LordAndrew
    @Mikemcn said:
    " WHY DIDN'T THEY SHOOT KAYSEN! EMILY WAS DEAD EITHER WAY!

    They were going on something Zach's dad said when they didnt even know he was a good guy until 10 seconds before making the choice. Im sure Kaysen would have survived the shot but that still seemed like the logical choice, before they knew he was a demon/alien/mutant plant. "
    Kaysen hasn't aged at all since he killed Zach's father. Remembering that, the rumor about the seeds making people immortal, and the effect the red seeds had on George, suggests that Kaysen would probably be immortal. Shooting him would be ineffective. Based on prior evidence, he probably gets strength from the red tree sapling growing out of Emily, so killing her and the sapling would weaken him far more than any bullet probably could.
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    #47  Edited By mikemcn
    @LordAndrew: I didn't consider that possibility, and now the whole planting a tree inside her makes alot more sense, ok, I take back what I said.c I have seen the light =)
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    #48  Edited By Kibblez

    For some reason, the part where the true nature of Zach/York was revealed and then the subsequent part with Emily crying was.....pretty impactul haha. It's REALLY weird, but with the music, voice acting and the decent cinematic quality......I dunno it was kinda cool. Just wish this game wasnt so janky.

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    #49  Edited By cooljammer00
    @jclane said:
    " The only question I want answered as of now is what happened to Harry's father (original R.Killer)? We last saw him roaring in anger up at Kaysen who was standing on the clock tower.Did he succumb to madness or is there more to it? "
    Yeah, I felt that was sort of a copout.  You're Robert Killer, then you flash to present day no longer 1956 style Zach Morgan.

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