With the Deadly Premonition Endurance Runs both having reached their conclusion, I did a little thinking on a subject that I've considered before, but with Francis York Morgan's adventure in Greenvale at the front of many of our minds, it's one that's worth revisiting.  Sometimes, we get so hung up on reviews, review scores and popular opinion that we end up missing out on something that's special in its own little way.  Not necessarily "short bus" special, though that can sometimes be the case, but those special games that feature touches or elements that make them stand out in a good way.
 

With the Deadly Premonition Endurance Runs both having reached their conclusion, I did a little thinking on a subject that I've considered before, but with Francis York Morgan's adventure in Greenvale at the front of many of our minds, it's one that's worth revisiting.  Sometimes, we get so hung up on reviews, review scores and popular opinion that we end up missing out on something that's special in its own little way.  Not necessarily "short bus" special, though that can sometimes be the case, but those special games that feature touches or elements that make them stand out in a good way.
 

So what you're trying to say with those several hundred words is "Deadly Premonition might not be great, but it's not terrible either, and it's unique." Well, you know what? "Not great, but not terrible" is "mediocre", and I don't want to spend time and money on mediocre games. I enjoy the Endurance Run for three reasons:

• It's free.
• The commentary is entertaining.
• Since the staff play the game for me, I can enjoy the good parts -- the story, the characters and the music -- without having to suffer through the terrible gameplay.

" @Hailinel: Because I've seen how it plays, and heard how it plays. And it doesn't play well. "

" @Icemael said:

" @Hailinel: Because I've seen how it plays, and heard how it plays. And it doesn't play well. "

I for one, enjoy the terrible controls. "

" @Seroth: I've seen the story, the characters, the graphics and the gameplay. I've had the controls described to me. I think I have a pretty good idea of what the game's like. "

Personally, I've never been against enjoying a game with bad and occationally buggy gameplay as long as it has an interesting narrative. Some examples of such games I've played and enjoyed are Galerians: Ash and Legacy of Kain: Defiance. 
 
Before the Endurance Run ended, I was pretty interested in I playing DP, but now that I've seen all of the main storyline it would feel like a bit of a waste of time. 
 
Also no Xbox is keeping me from it.

" @Icemael said:

" @Hailinel: Because I've seen how it plays, and heard how it plays. And it doesn't play well. "

I for one, enjoy the terrible controls. "

I'm just gonna say I agree with you. This game looks really interesting and unique, and most of all, fun. I loved how they put bossa nova and jazz tunes in serious situations, how they really tried to build a complete sandbox world with attention to some minor details, and you gotta say it regardless of the technical stuff a good story is always a good story. And so are the characters.

I had not played a single Final Fantasy game or possibly even Square Enix game when i played Dirge of Cerberus and that was still a horrible game, i would rather pull my own hair out, hell i would rather play FF12 and i find that game to be a complete borefest. 
 
On topic though, i do love the characters in Deadly Premonition.( Much more then those of FF12 -_-)

" I had not played a single Final Fantasy game or possibly even Square Enix game when i played Dirge of Cerberus and that was still a horrible game, i would rather pull my own hair out, hell i would rather play FF12 and i find that game to be a complete borefest.   On topic though, i do love the characters in Deadly Premonition.( Much more then those of FF12 -_-) "

" @Seroth: I've seen the story, the characters, the graphics and the gameplay. I've had the controls described to me. I think I have a pretty good idea of what the game's like. "

" @Icemael said:

" @Hailinel: Because I've seen how it plays, and heard how it plays. And it doesn't play well. "

I for one, enjoy the terrible controls. "

" @Urmean said:

" @Icemael said:

" @Hailinel: Because I've seen how it plays, and heard how it plays. And it doesn't play well. "

I for one, enjoy the terrible controls. "

That's the dumbest thing I've read all day. "

" @Urmean said:

" @Icemael said:

" @Hailinel: Because I've seen how it plays, and heard how it plays. And it doesn't play well. "

I for one, enjoy the terrible controls. "

That's the dumbest thing I've read all day. "

"@Icemael said:

" @Seroth: I've seen the story, the characters, the graphics and the gameplay. I've had the controls described to me. I think I have a pretty good idea of what the game's like. "

Having something described to you and actually experiencing something for yourself are two different things. "

" @Icemael: I'm just gonna say that there's much more to the game than what was shown in the Endurance Run. I'll also say the controls aren't as bad as people say. :P "

" @Hitchenson said:

" @Urmean said:

" @Icemael said:

" @Hailinel: Because I've seen how it plays, and heard how it plays. And it doesn't play well. "

I for one, enjoy the terrible controls. "

That's the dumbest thing I've read all day. "

"Because I've seen how it plays, and heard how it plays. And it doesn't play well. "   Now, THAT'S the dumbest thing I've read all day! "

" @Seroth said:

" @Icemael: I'm just gonna say that there's much more to the game than what was shown in the Endurance Run. I'll also say the controls aren't as bad as people say. :P "

You use the right trigger to aim and the A button to fire your gun.  Even if it was responsive that is the most insane thing I've heard since either Dead Rising or the first Resident Evil. "

Wait, you're complimenting Dirge of Cerberus? That game sucked! Granted, it had serious potential, both in terms of story (Vincent was always an interesting character) and gameplay (see story), but they fucked it up on both fronts.

" @Hailinel: But to say you enjoy having shitty controls is a dumb thing to say. I'm not saying anything about the quality of the game, I'm just saying that's an hilarious comment to make. 
 
@jos4: Address the guy that said it then, for I did not. But just saying, he's watched people play through the entire game, he's listened to people who have played the game, he's read write ups about the game -- He's entitled to an opinion. It's not like he's an over zealous fanboy who hates anything with Halo written on the cover with no actual knowledge of the product for example.  "

" @Brodehouse said:

" @Seroth said:

" @Icemael: I'm just gonna say that there's much more to the game than what was shown in the Endurance Run. I'll also say the controls aren't as bad as people say. :P "

You use the right trigger to aim and the A button to fire your gun.  Even if it was responsive that is the most insane thing I've heard since either Dead Rising or the first Resident Evil. "

Wait, isn't that essentially how Resident Evil 4 played?  Shoulder button to bring out gun, face button to shoot dude in face?  What's weird about that? "

" Wait, you're complimenting Dirge of Cerberus? That game sucked! Granted, it had serious potential, both in terms of story (Vincent was always an interesting character) and gameplay (see story), but they fucked it up on both fronts. "

" @Hitchenson said:

" @Hailinel: But to say you enjoy having shitty controls is a dumb thing to say. I'm not saying anything about the quality of the game, I'm just saying that's an hilarious comment to make. 
 
@jos4: Address the guy that said it then, for I did not. But just saying, he's watched people play through the entire game, he's listened to people who have played the game, he's read write ups about the game -- He's entitled to an opinion. It's not like he's an over zealous fanboy who hates anything with Halo written on the cover with no actual knowledge of the product for example.  "

Anyways, it's hard for me to understand how someone can say a game is mediocre withouth playing it at all, no matter how many videos you may have seen. You can actually be discouraged to play it, but how on Earth can you tell someone who actually played it "No man, the game is mediocre!" and keep a smile on your face? "

" @jos4 said:

" @Hitchenson said:

" @Urmean said:

" @Icemael said:

" @Hailinel: Because I've seen how it plays, and heard how it plays. And it doesn't play well. "

I for one, enjoy the terrible controls. "

That's the dumbest thing I've read all day. "

"Because I've seen how it plays, and heard how it plays. And it doesn't play well. "   Now, THAT'S the dumbest thing I've read all day! "

Hey, why not cut your arm off with a rusty saw. You might think you've got a pretty good idea of what it feels like, but really, it feels great! What do you mean, you won't try it? That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day! "

I get your point, but one issue I have is with the title. I highly doubt under ANY circumstance, that a game that is widely recognized as a 10 would be less worthwhile then a game recognized as a 2.

" I get your point, but one issue I have is with the title. I highly doubt under ANY circumstance, that a game that is widely recognized as a 10 would be less worthwhile then a game recognized as a 2. "

" @Hailinel said:

" @Brodehouse said:

" @Seroth said:

" @Icemael: I'm just gonna say that there's much more to the game than what was shown in the Endurance Run. I'll also say the controls aren't as bad as people say. :P "

You use the right trigger to aim and the A button to fire your gun.  Even if it was responsive that is the most insane thing I've heard since either Dead Rising or the first Resident Evil. "

Wait, isn't that essentially how Resident Evil 4 played?  Shoulder button to bring out gun, face button to shoot dude in face?  What's weird about that? "

Because Resident Evil 4 has bad controls.  Even for it's time they weren't great, but especially years later it's impossible to play it and not be frustrated (Wii version excluded).  And Deadly Premonition looks like it has very similar controls that are just less responsive plus a lot of glitching.  That being said, I loved the endurance run, and I think I would've enjoyed playing it despite all of it's shortcomings, but I don't think I'll attempt it now after watching all of the parts that interested me. "

My guess is that the controls are horrible, but I'm not going to try to say I know for sure, because I don't. I haven't played it, and probably never will, but I trust the generous number of people that I've heard that very same judgement from. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't ever come to a game for good story, I come to them to have fun physically playing them. If I want a story, I'll watch a movie, or some TV. Don't get me wrong, a good story is welcomed, but sometimes I'd rather not even have to sit through the cutscenes that lay, even a good story, out. I think it's the reason I've never gotten past the first 20 minutes of Bioshock.

" @Brodehouse said:

" @Seroth said:

" @Icemael: I'm just gonna say that there's much more to the game than what was shown in the Endurance Run. I'll also say the controls aren't as bad as people say. :P "

You use the right trigger to aim and the A button to fire your gun.  Even if it was responsive that is the most insane thing I've heard since either Dead Rising or the first Resident Evil. "

Wait, isn't that essentially how Resident Evil 4 played?  Shoulder button to bring out gun, face button to shoot dude in face?  What's weird about that? "

" @Hailinel said:

" @Brodehouse said:

" @Seroth said:

" @Icemael: I'm just gonna say that there's much more to the game than what was shown in the Endurance Run. I'll also say the controls aren't as bad as people say. :P "

You use the right trigger to aim and the A button to fire your gun.  Even if it was responsive that is the most insane thing I've heard since either Dead Rising or the first Resident Evil. "

Wait, isn't that essentially how Resident Evil 4 played?  Shoulder button to bring out gun, face button to shoot dude in face?  What's weird about that? "

Resident Evil 4's controls are dated. They worked fine last generation, but that style of gameplay has been refined to the point where going back to Resident Evil 4 is hard as hell. Add to that the fact that Resident Evil 4 required more strategy that "shoot everyone in the face" -- making enemies stagger and using melee attacks was just as important -- and that Deadly Premonition has the most boring enemy design I've seen in a long, long time, and you have... a steaming pile of shit. "

" @Icemael said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @Brodehouse said:

" @Seroth said:

" @Icemael: I'm just gonna say that there's much more to the game than what was shown in the Endurance Run. I'll also say the controls aren't as bad as people say. :P "

You use the right trigger to aim and the A button to fire your gun.  Even if it was responsive that is the most insane thing I've heard since either Dead Rising or the first Resident Evil. "

Wait, isn't that essentially how Resident Evil 4 played?  Shoulder button to bring out gun, face button to shoot dude in face?  What's weird about that? "

Resident Evil 4's controls are dated. They worked fine last generation, but that style of gameplay has been refined to the point where going back to Resident Evil 4 is hard as hell. Add to that the fact that Resident Evil 4 required more strategy that "shoot everyone in the face" -- making enemies stagger and using melee attacks was just as important -- and that Deadly Premonition has the most boring enemy design I've seen in a long, long time, and you have... a steaming pile of shit. "

Really, you find it that hard to go back to that?  I can't say I feel the same. "

Actually, I recall the prevailing opinion of the game's controls as being fairly positive.  I mean, sure, you couldn't move and shoot, but that's generally how real life works.  You can't expect to be able to be on the run and firing multiple headshots while also managing the gun's recoil as though it doesn't exist. "

" @Hailinel said: 

Actually, I recall the prevailing opinion of the game's controls as being fairly positive.  I mean, sure, you couldn't move and shoot, but that's generally how real life works.  You can't expect to be able to be on the run and firing multiple headshots while also managing the gun's recoil as though it doesn't exist. "

Realism doesn't necessarily mean it's fun, or even good. "

" @Hailinel: I always thought DoC had an interesting soundtrack, which can sometimes make an okay game into a great one (Valkyrie Profile 2). How was the sound quality in the actual game? I imagine it's not easy to get Hamauzu's compositional style onto a DVD without quite a lot of compression.
 
It was actually not the gameplay that put me off of DoC, but the story. Could never get on board with the FFVII compilation. And as I understand it, Vincent pines over Lucretia, stops a digitized Hojo from resurrecting...something, then hooks up with a loli? Am I even close? "

Resident Evil 4's controls were fine before, but now they're not? How does that happen? Sounds like this is the fault of the people playing games and not the game itself.

How is Resident Evil meant to distinguish itself from any other shooter on the market if it didn't play mechanically different? Same goes for Deadly Premonition, although admittedly they didn't accomplish it as well. However, I will say this, if DP''s controls actively made it hard to play and prevented the player from progressing, I could see Icemael's point. Although it's better for controls to be great, I can still go back and play the original RE/ Silent Hill. They're clunky but it's not a big deal. And watching VJ they played for the most part very well indeed, able to do most things with ease, so what I saw were controls that were definitely playable.
Also, the writing and voice-acting in Deadly Premonition is better than any of the core Resident Evil or Silent Hill games that I've played or witnessed, an achievement in-itself for a budget game. It has a better narrative and concept as well imo, with some symbolism thrown in for good measure.
I endorse Haillinel's point, Gamerankings and Metacritic are not an infallible yardstick of what's worth playing. If you buy a game only because of score then you will miss the variety and enjoyment gaming can provide.

" So what you're trying to say with those several hundred words is "Deadly Premonition might not be great, but it's not terrible either, and it's unique." Well, you know what? "Not great, but not terrible" is "mediocre", and I don't want to spend time and money on mediocre games. I enjoy the Endurance Run for three reasons:

• It's free.
• The commentary is entertaining.
• Since the staff play the game for me, I can enjoy the good parts -- the story, the characters and the music -- without having to suffer through the terrible gameplay.

If I had actually went out and bought Deadly Premonition and played it for myself, I would probably have hated it. Because it's not a good game. In fact, it's not even an okay game. It's mediocre.

"

" @masternater27 said:

" @Hailinel said: 

Actually, I recall the prevailing opinion of the game's controls as being fairly positive.  I mean, sure, you couldn't move and shoot, but that's generally how real life works.  You can't expect to be able to be on the run and firing multiple headshots while also managing the gun's recoil as though it doesn't exist. "

Realism doesn't necessarily mean it's fun, or even good. "

It doesn't necessarily mean bad, either. "

" @LordAndrew:  A lot has changed in the realm of third person shooters in the past 5 years. It's probably been the most actively evolving genre of the latter half of the 00s. Those controls aren't ideal in 2010, not to mention that the combat looks flat as hell in DP. "

" @Hailinel said:

" @masternater27 said:

" @Hailinel said: 

Actually, I recall the prevailing opinion of the game's controls as being fairly positive.  I mean, sure, you couldn't move and shoot, but that's generally how real life works.  You can't expect to be able to be on the run and firing multiple headshots while also managing the gun's recoil as though it doesn't exist. "

Realism doesn't necessarily mean it's fun, or even good. "

It doesn't necessarily mean bad, either. "

But in this case I, and many others, would argue it IS bad.  That's why you don't see games that control like that anymore.  Except RE5, which I couldn't play because I thought it controlled poorly.   "

" @CoolDrMoney said:

" @LordAndrew:  A lot has changed in the realm of third person shooters in the past 5 years. It's probably been the most actively evolving genre of the latter half of the 00s. Those controls aren't ideal in 2010, not to mention that the combat looks flat as hell in DP. "

But if a game was playable five years ago, how is it suddenly unplayable now?  Aspects may be changed or improved, but that doesn't invalidate the inherent playability of the mechanic as it existed once upon a time. "