Eight Women, Eight Responses, and One Dead Island Riptide Statue

#2201 Posted by MideonNViscera (2257 posts) -

That first chick looks kinda hot.

#2202 Posted by jimmyfenix (3830 posts) -

@AMonkey said:

Hey.

Hey Patrick.

Stop posting these fucking articles. I'm sick of this pandering to female gamers, creating issues about non issues. You are single handedly ruining this site. Giantbomb was about video games. Not creating stories from gaming politics in order to get page hits. Go work for Kotaku, you would be perfect there.

shots fired

#2203 Posted by JoshyLee (176 posts) -

Maybe we should carefully pick eight women from twitter to agree with us and say it's not a matter of sexism. Apparently that's what a real journalist would do.

#2204 Posted by FMinus (389 posts) -

Drama over a fucking toy, clearly the bane of a nation whos main concern is, that God blesses them.

#2205 Posted by alpha_rudy@hotmail.com (24 posts) -

@AMonkey: I'm pretty damn sure this is the reason they hired him. To get someone to look at things going on in the video games industry...you might call him "the news guy"

#2206 Posted by OfficeGamer (1087 posts) -

@jimmyfenix said:

@AMonkey said:

Hey.

Hey Patrick.

Stop posting these fucking articles. I'm sick of this pandering to female gamers, creating issues about non issues. You are single handedly ruining this site. Giantbomb was about video games. Not creating stories from gaming politics in order to get page hits. Go work for Kotaku, you would be perfect there.

shots fired

#2207 Posted by HellknightLeon (451 posts) -

I feel like this is "troll" news. I've seen a lot of this in the last few months... I don't know why and I don't like it. Why are we now talking about stuff like this and yet its nothing new... oh GOD! I'm doing it... I'm adding to this... (Ok... back onto my point) Why is this kinda topic turning up so much this past year? (2012)

#2208 Posted by NotValeriusCato (20 posts) -

I just don't understand how people can react this way to complaints about how women are treated in this industry and in our culture. I'm a guy who's seen first-hand how the attitudes that things like this represent, legitimate, and reinforce, lead to actions and can destroy people, people I've cared about deeply. It seems like such a fundamental failure of empathy and humanity.

#2209 Posted by InsidiousTuna (377 posts) -

To summarize: a bunch of male Giant Bomb community members dictate to a bunch of women what they're allowed to find sexist.

Good work, internet. Knocked it out of the park.

#2210 Posted by mrfluke (5093 posts) -

alright 2200 comments im done checking on this board.

theres a lot more that could have been done to make a balanced argument and draw less internet rage from people.

had some good discussions no doubt about that, but at the end of it all the only thing im seeing coming out of this from BOTH SIDES of the argument is this

the one habit that needs to chill the fuck out is bullying/harassing people into listening to this stupid fucking issue.your feeling bullied by this statue and by "sexism" OK, but then you bully/harass people into forcing them to listen to this shit? if that just isnt the most hypocritical self righteous thing. if i was a mod and i saw this type of bullying going on, i would make it a mission to ban all those bullies accounts.

its the internet, its always about net neutrality, people should post and say what they want, and not be forced/harassed to doing something by someone else.

#2211 Posted by HellknightLeon (451 posts) -

@kalmia64 said:

And I play video games to have fun. Not be told to get in the kitchen and make a sandwich. Not to be told to suck a guys dick. Not to be told that I deserve to be violently raped.

Oh my shit! Someone posted this? A real person? You want to talk about a topic that should be closed... please close this one. This is turning... sick.

#2212 Posted by PillClinton (3290 posts) -

So this must be the most commented thing on GB now, right? Patty just keeps on breakin' records!

@CarlosTheDwarf said:

@ReaganStein said:

"Please don't use my sexy cleavage shot that I myself use on my public Twitter profile to illustrate my complaints about sexy cleavage statues. Because that might make me look like a hypocrite."

LOL

Wow, that's fuckin' ridiculous. Just... the whole thing, wow.

#2213 Posted by EnduranceFun (1114 posts) -

@HellknightLeon said:

@kalmia64 said:

And I play video games to have fun. Not be told to get in the kitchen and make a sandwich. Not to be told to suck a guys dick. Not to be told that I deserve to be violently raped.

Oh my shit! Someone posted this? A real person? You want to talk about a topic that should be closed... please close this one. This is turning... sick.

Stop contributing to rape culture pls

#2214 Posted by jimmyfenix (3830 posts) -

@HellknightLeon said:

@kalmia64 said:

And I play video games to have fun. Not be told to get in the kitchen and make a sandwich. Not to be told to suck a guys dick. Not to be told that I deserve to be violently raped.

Oh my shit! Someone posted this? A real person? You want to talk about a topic that should be closed... please close this one. This is turning... sick.

yeah this is just getting weird :/

#2215 Posted by Krullban (1023 posts) -

@PillClinton said:

So this must be the most commented thing on GB now, right? Patty just keeps on breakin' records!

Not even close

#2216 Posted by PillClinton (3290 posts) -

@Krullban said:

@PillClinton said:

So this must be the most commented thing on GB now, right? Patty just keeps on breakin' records!

Not even close

I more meant site content from the crew, but that's... impressive?

#2217 Posted by jimmyfenix (3830 posts) -

@PillClinton said:

So this must be the most commented thing on GB now, right? Patty just keeps on breakin' records!

@CarlosTheDwarf said:

@ReaganStein said:

"Please don't use my sexy cleavage shot that I myself use on my public Twitter profile to illustrate my complaints about sexy cleavage statues. Because that might make me look like a hypocrite."

LOL

Wow, that's fuckin' ridiculous. Just... the whole thing, wow.

Lol

#2218 Posted by jimmyfenix (3830 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

@shiggity_shwa said:

@mrfluke said:

@TooWalrus said:

@TheSouthernDandy said:

@TooWalrus said:

@patrickklepek: Well, it's east coast midnight, I've only just got home from work, and it's 2,000 comments later, but I'd still like to throw in my two cents. This was a welcome change from your past few articles on this topic. It's cool to hear what women in the business have to say about sexism in the gaming industry- and hopefully even the biggest assholes in this thread wouldn't deny that the problem does, at least, exist. In this case, I can definitely understand the sexist undertones in this 'marketing tool.' There are really only two points I'd like you to consider, and this is just my opinion, and I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job or anything, these are just personal suggestions:

  • First, I do feel like this particular incident has been blown out of proportion. What I mean is, this problem is industry wide, right? I think it would have been more compelling if you'd composite several instances of sexism in the industry, and presented it as a whole. I don't feel like it's right to dog-pile on Deep Silver if this issue runs so deep- especially since this statue could be potentially offensive for a few other reasons as well.
  • Second, I'd just appreciate if you'd expand a little more about why you believe what you do. The issue that comes to mind is the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer, which you've called 'disgusting,' without really explaining why. I watched the trailer again, and the only real sexism issue I could imagine someone having is the manner in which they cyborg is dressed. Most girls I know personally wear swimsuits that show more skin that the cyborg lady, so when you imply that merely showing skin is sexist, I start to wonder where you draw the line between acceptable and sexist. I think that's what's leading some people to compare you with fundamental Muslims demanding every women be covered with a burqa, or digging up past actions to try to point out hypocrisy of some sort.

Nice post duder. Not saying I agree or disagree, just sayin nice post.

@mrfluke said:

quoting this up, cause i agree

Oh, thanks guys. I was pretty pleased when reading through the comments this morning to find that very few of the users I respect the most had fallen onto the mindless hate train.

lemme add another point to this good points that are going on here as patrick is online and checking the comments

what is so wrong in getting male industry people to speak out on this issue? if the gaming industry is so male focused, then wouldnt getting males to back up the females do a lot of good? if this stupid statue is supposed to be targeted for us males, then they think we are a bunch of savages, i bet if you show that to the call of duty dudebro crowd they wouldnt like it and thing its gross, i really think so.

this is going to sound sexist, but how much permanent change is going to happen with just the women, the minority audience, the auidence that this statue is not targeted for, do for sexism? its gotta be a combined effort from both genders to make it happen. and it seems you not getting the males to say anything just shows a feminist bias honestly.

im sorry if this sounds sexist and im downplaying womens role here, im just looking at it from a cold business angle, would really having the minority audience speak out? and having the targeted audience stay quiet, create permanent change? change the people in charge minds about things?

I think you're seeing what a lot of men think in these comments. I think you're seeing just how ignorant, hateful, and sexist a large portion of the audience is.

I agree that getting professional male viewpoints would not be a bad thing, but why does it matter that women have something to say about this? You say that the targeted audience is being left silent. 2000+ commenters disagree.

absolutely nothings wrong that women are speaking out, im just wondering how much a permanent change it will create without the target audience getting its proper professional voice as well. a bunch of females came out and voiced their opinion when they saw that they got professionals backing them up, and then shortly disappeared afterwards.

im going to assume your female here, correct me if im wrong, (ive actually had a pretty good civil friendly conversation with one of you guys already via a pm , seems you all really only come out and talk when stories like this are posted and then disappear shortly afterwards) and if we're generalizing here about 2000 comments being just about males expressing their hate, and no legitimate criticism was taking place,then we can go back to that one reason why article, cause as much as there were good females that were rightfully getting their voices heard, there were a bunch of females that were NOT about gender equality and only using that 1reasonwhy as a scapegoat to further their own agendas

so please dont dismiss and generalize all these 2000 comments as just being males being hateful and sexist.

word

#2219 Posted by AiurFlux (901 posts) -

If I rolled my eyes any further I'm sure I'd be able to see my tiny brain.

You have the right to be offended, you do not have the right to stop people from offending you. Don't like it stand and shout all you want. But here's my hope. I hope that articles like this start turning into blogs where you can offer your opinion. The news area should be news, not pushing and publishing your own agenda. Shit like this is something I'd expect to see on Kotaku or IGN, not here.

There's my opinion. If it offends you, good. Because quite frankly I don't give a fuck. I've HAD IT with the PC Police, especially in the game media. Tomb Raider is offensive because it depicts a heroine character in duress, because women clearly have never been under fucking duress. Hitman Absolution is offensive because of PVC dominatrix nuns, because there's never any kinky son of a bitch that's into that sort of thing. Booth Babes are offensive because they're beautiful models and we clearly shouldn't have that although it's in EVERY-FUCKING-THING. People are apologizing in advance of doing something because there's always going to be some moronic piece of shit that has a problem with it. ESPN issued an apology for Brent Mussburger calling a beauty pageant winner beautiful. It's in her fucking job description and resume. That's the world we live in, and it's forged by assholes that are quite literally sucking the fun out of everything. But at the same time we can play a game built around dismemberment and decapitation. Wow, great fucking logic. Let's remove anything with sex because it's the one thing about us that's universal and natural, let's replace it with killing shit!

Get. Over. Yourself. If you don't like it don't buy the thing. It should be a free market decision, not the decision of a few vocal assholes raising a stink. The statue is clearly stupid, but it's up to people to think if it is stupid and speak with their wallets. It is not up to you to censor the artistic creativity, and I use that term loosely in this instance, of others by raising hell and guilting them into dropping it.

#2220 Posted by AndrewB (7500 posts) -

@Simulacrum said:

Being male is suffering.

Aaaaaamen.

Online
#2221 Posted by cabbagered (8 posts) -

Excellent article, Patrick & contributors. It's nice to see that you've managed to generate some mature and level-headed discussion around an issue that--at least on the gaming-centric corners of the net--is otherwise controlled by reactionary hyperbole and embarrassing mis-characterizations. In short, thanks!

That said, when you have so many people ready to add their voice to an article, do you really need to include an anonymous contributor? If her position in the industry gives her an unique point of view then I'd say yes, but, without that information, I as the reader have no idea what weight her opinion carries.

#2222 Edited by EnduranceFun (1114 posts) -

@RapSnackz said:

I don't have any issue with the article, but I didn't think I was going to have to see that goddamn statue on the front page of a site one more time.

I feel embarrassed having that abomination on my computer screen when others pass me by. And really I don't think it's necessary, it's only there because Patrick lacks the imagination to think up another banner image, much like how he randomly used Lara Croft and the Mirror's Edge protagonist in 1reasonwhy as banners, simply because they were female protagonists. I guess Lara Croft is fine now it has a female writer.

Double standards, double standards everywhere.

#2223 Edited by dreffen (20 posts) -

@EnduranceFun: I didn't say anything about invading. I said that there's apparently some overlap with GB commenters who'd fit right in with MRA types.

This shit is kind of an issue: http://gbitk.net/ii/

@InsidiousTuna said:

To summarize: a bunch of male Giant Bomb community members dictate to a bunch of women what they're allowed to find sexist.

Good work, internet. Knocked it out of the park.

This sums it up pretty nicely.

#2224 Posted by granderojo (1778 posts) -

I think it's really lame for the angry people in these articles that Patrick has been doing to continue to be angry about it. If you don't like these features, don't read them. Furthermore if you're going to be even more lame and spam a contributor to the article, you don't deserve to be a part of this community.

I'm not going to say you're sexist because I don't know if you are, but you people who continue to do this shit are lame. Stop being lame. The fuck.

#2225 Edited by dreffen (20 posts) -

@thabigred said:

If you don't like these features, don't read them.

But with my privilege I feel I must say that this is all okay, and that these women are just getting all feminazi on me for stating the truth.

#2226 Edited by EnduranceFun (1114 posts) -

@dreffen said:

@InsidiousTuna said:

To summarize: a bunch of male Giant Bomb community members dictate to a bunch of women what they're allowed to find sexist.

Good work, internet. Knocked it out of the park.

This sums it up pretty nicely.

No one says anything remotely sexist, but you guys sure want to pigeon-hole them as such. They complain about the article, they criticise the frequency, the sound-noise ratio, but nope, they're all just entitled nerds.

How about they read the articles, but you stop reading their comments? No one is forcing you to.

#2227 Posted by Pezen (1562 posts) -

Interesting reading 8 women sharing their thoughts on this. It's a bit lazy journalism to pick 8 people who agree on a "controversial" subject though because it both makes the author (Patrick) of the two articles seem like he's patting himself on the back and it doesn't really give the discussion any fodder for discussion. But, I suspect Patrick isn't interesting in "discussing" the topic as much as pushing for a specific end goal. Which is fine, if intellectually dull. Problem I have is that women don't necessarily agree on this topic, considering how many comments have raised examples of women not at all thinking that torso is an offense to all women and disagree that the gender of the thing matters, saying it would be equally bad as a male torso (including my own wife). But, somewhere I am starting to agree that maybe GB could either split their texts into News/Editorials or completely rename the "news" section to something more general. Because as other's have said, when you apply opinion to a "news" story, it's not quite reporting unbiased news anymore.

#2228 Posted by jimmyfenix (3830 posts) -

@dreffen said:

@thabigred said:

If you don't like these features, don't read them.

But with my privilege I feel I must say that this is all okay, and that these women are just getting all feminazi on me for stating the truth.

im getting threats aswell

#2229 Posted by jimmyfenix (3830 posts) -

@Pezen said:

Interesting reading 8 women sharing their thoughts on this. It's a bit lazy journalism to pick 8 people who agree on a "controversial" subject though because it both makes the author (Patrick) of the two articles seem like he's patting himself on the back and it doesn't really give the discussion any fodder for discussion. But, I suspect Patrick isn't interesting in "discussing" the topic as much as pushing for a specific end goal. Which is fine, if intellectually dull. Problem I have is that women don't necessarily agree on this topic, considering how many comments have raised examples of women not at all thinking that torso is an offense to all women and disagree that the gender of the thing matters, saying it would be equally bad as a male torso (including my own wife). But, somewhere I am starting to agree that maybe GB could either split their texts into News/Editorials or completely rename the "news" section to something more general. Because as other's have said, when you apply opinion to a "news" story, it's not quite reporting unbiased news anymore.

word

#2230 Posted by dreffen (20 posts) -

@Judakel said:

@EnduranceFun said:

@dreffen said:

@InsidiousTuna said:

To summarize: a bunch of male Giant Bomb community members dictate to a bunch of women what they're allowed to find sexist.

Good work, internet. Knocked it out of the park.

This sums it up pretty nicely.

No one says anything remotely sexist, but you guys sure want to pigeon-hole them as such. They complain about the article, they criticise the frequency, the sound-noise ratio, but nope, they're all just entitled nerds.

How about they read the articles, but you stop reading their comments? No one is forcing you to.

I agree with this guy. Delusional attitudes like his are not the problem. It's the fact you read them. Little boys just want their corner to rage in.

PS. My denial of male privilege perpetuates sexism, but I've said nothing sexist so get off my back.

But no one said anything remotely sexist, people are just pigeon-holing it as such.

#2231 Posted by granderojo (1778 posts) -

@dreffen said:

@thabigred said:

If you don't like these features, don't read them.

But with my privilege I feel I must say that this is all okay, and that these women are just getting all feminazi on me for stating the truth.

This statue was a bad idea and that's all these women were saying here. I don't see how this is a controversial thing. Furthermore blowing up the comments section with hundreds of posts about it and continuing to be angry about something that shouldn't be a controversy is lame.

#2232 Posted by jimmyfenix (3830 posts) -

i wish techland release this bust and say FUCK Y`ALL on it

#2233 Posted by graf1k (413 posts) -

Can this be over yet? Deep Silver got what they wanted with a bunch of free press for their video game that has had little buzz, females who were offended by the stupid thing were successful in the stupid thing being taken down and had their opinions validated by the apology, and Patrick got to white knight the ever-loving shit out it. The only people who 'lost' anything is the majority of people (male AND female) who took one look at the thing, said "Boy that is stupid, and definitely not worth $150" or whatever they were going to charge and wanted to move the fuck on but can't because hey, somebody said the word "sexism" and now we need to have a congressional hearing on the Dead Island Riptide Zombie Titty Statue Debacle of 2013 before it can end. Bravo.

Just for the record, I don't necessarily disagree with the thought that this thing is sexist and stupid, just like I don't necessarily disagree with P.E.T.A. that animal cruelty is terrible. But just like P.E.T.A., if you are snide, borderline malicious in making your point, brow-beating those who aren't as evangelical as you about your issue, you aren't doing yourself or your cause any favors.

#2234 Posted by buft (3301 posts) -

@Judakel said:

Marginalized nerds feel their only sources of social power, namely their maleness and their whiteness, under attack and are lashing out the only way they know how: anonymously on the internet.

Being male and white isn't what makes me as a person, its what i was born with and I'm sorry if you have been victimized or made to feel bad by someone who shares some of my physical characteristics but pushing your agenda of boxing us together is part of the problem but if it makes you feel better I cant help that but for the life of me think of one moment that this benefited me one bit.

My name is Justin Johnston, I'm 29 and I'm from Ireland, i posted my picture on the thread here and I'm not afraid to say that Patricks article while I'm sure has its heart in the right place is no further to outing sexism in the industry, if he truly wanted to make a case for sexism he would out the companies that hold females back from positions of power, pay their female employees less or treat them unfairly.At the moment all we have is an article about women in the industries opinions on a fairly tacky and tasteless statue.

#2235 Posted by Oginam (446 posts) -

Maybe its just me but I kind of want a more strict moderation policy for GB. And more mods to enforce it. Not that I'm against a person sharing his or her viewpoint but only so long as its done in a mature, reasoned manner. I probably just expect too much out of a video gaming community on the internet.

You can't fix a problem in a game by ignoring it or claiming it doesn't exist, and the problem won't fix itself. Same goes for real life.

#2236 Posted by jimmyfenix (3830 posts) -

@EnduranceFun said:

@Judakel: Male privilege is as much a fact as the 9/11 conspiracy theories or the NWO.

Though what really matters is why the fuck you think you need to bring this up right now. The audacity to attack other members of this forum purely based on their viewpoints. You'd get a lot further if you tried to explain your point-of-view calmly and in the proper forum, this is hardly the place for that. It makes the whole feminist movement look bad when commenters like you come and bitch at the 'patriarchy' like a dumbass.

amen

#2237 Posted by buft (3301 posts) -

@Judakel said:

@EnduranceFun said:

@Judakel: Male privilege is as much a fact as the 9/11 conspiracy theories or the NWO.

Though what really matters is why the fuck you think you need to bring this up right now. The audacity to attack other members of this forum purely based on their viewpoints. You'd get a lot further if you tried to explain your point-of-view calmly and in the proper forum, this is hardly the place for that. It makes the whole feminist movement look bad when commenters like you come and bitch at the 'patriarchy' like a dumbass.

Gonna need you to debunk that male privilege by showing me that men and women have equal pay, son. At least do that much you lazy fuckwit.

So when i mentioned that in my response it was a non issue and i was wrong but suddenly that's the key to this whole thing? I believe you might be just what you are claiming to hate in your original statement and this is how you "lash out" under the guise of anonymity

@Judakel said:

@buft said:

@Judakel said:

Marginalized nerds feel their only sources of social power, namely their maleness and their whiteness, under attack and are lashing out the only way they know how: anonymously on the internet.

Being male and white isn't what makes me as a person, its what i was born with and I'm sorry if you have been victimized or made to feel bad by someone who shares some of my physical characteristics but pushing your agenda of boxing us together is part of the problem but if it makes you feel better I cant help that but for the life of me think of one moment that this benefited me one bit.

My name is Justin Johnston, I'm 29 and I'm from Ireland, i posted my picture on the thread here and I'm not afraid to say that Patricks article while I'm sure has its heart in the right place is no further to outing sexism in the industry, if he truly wanted to make a case for sexism he would out the companies that hold females back from positions of power, pay their female employees less or treat them unfairly.At the moment all we have is an article about women in the industries opinions on a fairly tacky and tasteless statue.

What are you going on about? No one is asking you apologize for being male and white. At best, you're being asked to not perpetuate the privilege these attributes give you. Given what follows your opening statement: Good job at failing to do that. Also, way to go in assuming someone had to victimize me in order for me to see male and white privilege as a problem.

Also, Patrick's article serves to keep the issue of sexism in this industry in the spotlight. I am not sure how you missed that, but given that you think someone is asking to apologize for "WHO I AM", I am not surprised.

#2238 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@Judakel said:

@buft said:

@Judakel said:

Marginalized nerds feel their only sources of social power, namely their maleness and their whiteness, under attack and are lashing out the only way they know how: anonymously on the internet.

Being male and white isn't what makes me as a person, its what i was born with and I'm sorry if you have been victimized or made to feel bad by someone who shares some of my physical characteristics but pushing your agenda of boxing us together is part of the problem but if it makes you feel better I cant help that but for the life of me think of one moment that this benefited me one bit.

My name is Justin Johnston, I'm 29 and I'm from Ireland, i posted my picture on the thread here and I'm not afraid to say that Patricks article while I'm sure has its heart in the right place is no further to outing sexism in the industry, if he truly wanted to make a case for sexism he would out the companies that hold females back from positions of power, pay their female employees less or treat them unfairly.At the moment all we have is an article about women in the industries opinions on a fairly tacky and tasteless statue.

What are you going on about? No one is asking you apologize for being male and white. At best, you're being asked to not perpetuate the privilege these attributes give you. Given what follows your opening statement: Good job at failing to do that. Also, way to go in assuming someone had to victimize me in order for me to see male and white privilege as a problem.

Also, Patrick's article serves to keep the issue of sexism in this industry in the spotlight. I am not sure how you missed that, but given that you think someone is asking to apologize for "WHO I AM", I am not surprised.

I am sorry and I do not know how you were brought up. Maybe you were taught that women are weak and needs to be protected but I was not. I treat women the as I threat men. I am not more carefully with my words because she is a woman I am more carefully if I know that he or she feels offended or hurt by it.

And honesty. If a women is going to hit me especially without a reason I would probably hit back. And not because I am an asshole but because I do not treat them differently. Luckily I was never in any situation I had to hit someone or to get caught in a fight and hopefully I never will.

#2239 Posted by graf1k (413 posts) -

@Judakel: Is your point that if pay WAS the same for men and women that Zombie Titty Statue would have been okay? Or are you merely creating a straw man argument that has nothing to do with the issue at hand and drawing a correlation between two unrelated phenomena that is completely spurious?

#2240 Posted by Pezen (1562 posts) -

@Judakel: Her point to me was not the historical systematic implications of gender inequality, but that a male torso and a female torso displayed in such a manner is equally bad because it would be equally tasteless and equally "objectifying" if that what people thought of it. The historical relevance of gender inequality has little bearing on that torso for anyone who doesn't overanalyze everything they see and make a big deal out of their overzealous ideas. For some women, like my wife, it's just "basement nerd swag" and not a beacon of sexism in society.

And don't tell my wife to go into the kitchen, I am a much better at those things. Unless we're talking baking, she beats me there.

#2241 Posted by apothaeos (15 posts) -

I want to be part of this mega-thread. So here's a comment. Fukkin' internet. People are bad at arguing.

#2242 Posted by crcruz3 (252 posts) -

@Judakel said:

@EnduranceFun said:

@Judakel: Because gravity is comparable to male privilege. You are a card, aren't you?

Continuing blowing this up to be more than it is. Get it all out there, over these internet comments.

They're both facts. So yes, they are comparable. In that for something to be comparable, it must have at least one similarity. I realize in your cooky world they aren't both facts, but creationists disregard evidence too. That doesn't make them right. Hell, if you could just come up with a sane explanation for the difference in pay between men and women who both have the same job, in the same establishment, and have the same education that doesn't scream male privilege then I am all ears.

Walter Block from the Loyola College Economics Department says (you are going to hate his explanation, for sure):

"As for the pay gap, I made the case that it was due, instead, to the asymmetric effects of marriage. This institution enhances male earnings and reduces those of females. Why? Because wives do the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, shopping, child care. (A survey I took of my Loyola Maryland audience overwhelming supported this contention.) This is an example of the basic economic axiom of opportunity, or alternative costs. When anyone does anything, he is to that extent unable to do something else. Since I was in Baltimore, I illustrated this by use of Michael Phelps, world champion swimmer. I opined that he probably wasn't a world-class cellist, because to achieve that goal in addition to having a lot of talent, you have to spend many hours each day practicing, and he was busy with other (watery) pursuits. Well, women are also busy with activities other than supplying labor to the market, hence their lower productivity in this sector, compared to what it would be if they were never married.

I gave several bits of evidence, or proof, or illustrations, of this. For one thing, when you compare not all men and all women, but only the never-marrieds, the wage gap between males and females virtually disappears. When you take only young people, aged 18—24, again the male-female wage gap cannot be found, since most of them have never been married. And this entirely reasonable. After all, while women's productivity on average may well have been lower than men's in past centuries, when physical strength was important in this regard, in the present century this is no longer true. For another thing, if (all) women really had the same productivity as men, nowadays (they don't, due to marriage), then there would be additional profits available to any firm that specialized in hiring females. Surely this is a situation that could not long endure."

#2243 Edited by muffinmcmuffin (23 posts) -

There are many lols available in this comment section. It's always a party when people read a statement on the effects of white male privilege as constituting an argument that women are "weak" and need to be protected. Then the silly men's rights movement arguments start popping up. A+++, would read again.

#2244 Posted by Milkman (16535 posts) -
#2245 Posted by Missacre (566 posts) -
I'm just gonna leave this here.
#2246 Posted by JoshyLee (176 posts) -

Anyone who argues that women have a fair shake and are treated equally to men are idiots. Sexism exists. This statue just isn't an example of it.

#2247 Edited by Archaen (136 posts) -

@Judakel said:

Gonna need you to debunk that male privilege by showing me that men and women have equal pay, son. At least do that much you lazy fuckwit.

Actually, this has been done. This article writes about it: http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/ .

The claim is that women get paid less for equivalent work, but the problem is that "equivalent work" does not take into account that in the U.S. the average woman works less than 40 hours per week and the average man works overtime. It also does not take into account men tending to have more specializations in technical fields such as medicine and that men also have worked at their company for an average of two years longer. If you take into account all the above factors women get paid basically the same or even more than their male counterparts when actually doing the same work. Unfortunately the studies usually quoted say that a female doctor 6 years out of school in general practice working 36 hours so she can go home to see her children is doing the same work as a male brain surgeon 8 years out of school that works for 50 hours a week. The fact is that this pay discrepancy is, in fact, a myth these days.

#2248 Posted by Pezen (1562 posts) -

@Judakel said:

Something is not objectifying in a vacuum. The social conditions surrounding it add to the level of objectification through context. It is an act and acts gain their power from social conditions, among other things. Some women, like your wife, are wrong.

Now YOU go in the kitchen and make me a sandwich.

Tell her that she is wrong regarding an opinion? Are you under the illusion that the social ethics we use to steer our society forward is somehow calculated in science? It's all opinion shaped by opinion shaped by opinion. They're all subjective steps on a mass scale. Besides, if a woman objectify a man she objectify him the same way a man objectify a woman because the act of objectifying is the same.

Sure, but I only really do one sandwich. Which is smoked turkey, crispy bacon, cheddar cheese, slices of tomato and mayo on white bread or in a pita.

#2249 Edited by EnduranceFun (1114 posts) -

@Milkman said:

Delusion now.

Oh look, a feminist wrote an essay about a feminist idea. That clearly makes me delusional.

Still irrelevant. Still desperate in trying to defend the article by linking it with sexism.

#2250 Posted by crcruz3 (252 posts) -

@Archaen said:

@Judakel said:

Gonna need you to debunk that male privilege by showing me that men and women have equal pay, son. At least do that much you lazy fuckwit.

Actually, this has been done. This article writes about it: http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/ .

The claim is that women get paid less for equivalent work, but the problem is that "equivalent work" does not take into account that in the U.S. the average woman works less than 40 hours per week and the average man works overtime. It also does not take into account men tending to have more specializations in technical fields such as medicine and that men also have worked at their company for an average of two years longer. If you take into account all the above factors women get paid basically the same or even more than their male counterparts when actually doing the same work. Unfortunately the studies usually quoted say that a female doctor 6 years out of school in general practice working 36 hours so she can go home to see her children is doing the same work as a male brain surgeon 8 years out of school that works for 50 hours a week. The fact is that this pay discrepancy is, in fact, a myth these days.

This article is great.

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