Eight Women, Eight Responses, and One Dead Island Riptide Statue

#2401 Posted by biggest_loser (216 posts) -

@Binman88 said:

there was a time when women were portrayed as the dumb house wife in ads who had to crawl on their knees for men. Just remember that.

Crazy. The implication that things are being "evened up" makes it ok? You might want to clarify what you mean here. If it was bad then, it's bad now.

He's complaining that all ads now make men look stupid. I never said anything about it now being evened up and that its okay. I'm just pointing out that both genders have at different times been subjected to ridicule, meaning that it is futile to suggest that there is one specific gender being pushed. Th focus changes all the time.

#2402 Posted by biggest_loser (216 posts) -

@JoshyLee said:

@Hailinel said:

@JasonR86 said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor...

Oh God I would love to see the forums after that. They would fucking lose their shit.

It would be one hell of a sight to see.

I don't think people would mind. The issue isn't that we hate women. (even though you would like it to be as it would make us seem like terrible people) The issue is that Patrick is exploiting the idea of feminism so that people will pay attention to him. If he reported the fucking news no one would mind. But Alex is doing that. Patrick is trying to get page view through sensationalist bullshit.

Exploiting the idea of feminism...how is he doing that? Has ever mentioned the ideology of feminism? No he just found the statue tasteless and didn't understand how it was allowed to pass. And how is this sensational at all? He just asked people within the industry for their perspective. It has nothing to do with feminism.

#2403 Posted by CastleD (11 posts) -
@biggest_loser said:

@Missacre said:

@CastleD said:

If some of you guys think the fuss over this statue is overblown, you have to start realizing that in society the only time something really matters is when it affects women. It doesn't matter if its as trivial as a statue, or life and death issues. For example, males commit suicide at a rate of 4 to 1 over females. Guess what, nobody cares (and that's just one example of many).

Also, there's nothing brave and bold about Patrick Klepeck writing this article or his female friendly stance on these issues. Our entire media is feminist. Now, a journalist who criticizes aspects of feminism, even the slightest, that takes brass balls, because you risk ostracizing yourself or even losing your job. So you guys should stop congratulating Klepeck as if he's some type of trailblazer. This article is as mainstream and safe as it gets. I get the sense that he likes to "troll", whether it be his fellow male gamers who he looks down upon, or jukeboxes.

It's presented as if females are usually silenced, so we're giving them a voice finally. Meanwhile, our entire media is female-centric (like HuffPo for example), and issues affecting women are discussed all day, every day, not to mention our government and schools who care mostly about women. As a man, I'm more annoyed by commercials on television that treat men as total morons and women as SuperSassySmart who have to "tolerate" the male moron, than this statue, even though I personally don't like it and think it's grotesque.

Video games are one of last forms of media that doesn't cater and pander to women, and that won't do. That's one reason you see a backlash from guys when this subject comes up.

Final politically incorrect note: one reason the video game industry has been male dominated is because males have always been more interested in video games than females. I'm not exactly sure why that is, but from my observation its' mostly natural and not a social construct. It's not because men are evil misogynists, feel "threatened" by women, or any other phantom reasons. Misogyny exists of course, as does misandry, but it's overblown. Most men love women, want to be near women, enjoy working with them, and like doing things for women. I do.

Oh god, this. This so much. You sir, I want to shake your hand. Finally, someone who sees the light and isn't randomly spouting feminazi propaganda in a feeble attempt to get laid. I totally agree with you, video games are one of the last things that are male-dominated, and I'll admit, I like it that way.

The reason all these feminists are bitching about how "sexist" and "misogynistic" video games are, is because this is what's getting more attention these days. If something else was in the media day in and day out, they would leave us alone. They just move on from fad to fad, and video games happens to be the most recent one. Sadly, though, with everyone apparently on their side, it seems as if video games are going to start changing, and for what? They're gonna leave the games industry in disrepair because they wanted games catered specifically to them for one or two years. By then, no one's gonna want to play games anymore, because feminists were bitching every step of the way.

I just hope people who are truly passionate about games holds on and waits for this feminist cancer to pass us by, hopefully by then, they haven't done too much damage to the industry.


I think you're both way off the mark here. Video games are no longer male dominated. That mentality has to end. Its gone beyond the basement.

What's with the "basement" comments? Guys have always played games in their bedroom and living room too.

Games are now being made for everyone.

Games have always been made for everyone. However, on average guys have been more interested in gaming than girls, although obviously girls do play games too and always have.

It is something gamers have to come to terms with.

Nobody needs to come to terms with anything. It's the opposite, most guys love girls who plays games. 

 

That's just a dirty word blokes on the internet like to throw around like mud. (feminism)

Perhaps there are reasons for that. Everything associated with feminism isn't always positive and it deserves criticism and scrutiny.

A lot of female gamers wouldn't consider themselves feminists. A lot of them just want to invest in female characters that aren't scantily clad sex objects. 

Sounds good, I'd like more realistic female characters as well, like Elena from Uncharted for example. 

Not only is wanting gaming to be "male-dominated" weird its also extremely male chauvinistic and essentially sexist. I'm calling that out to you as a bloke. If you think this is going to go away, I think you need to get out of the basement and realise gaming is expanding. Its not just for the lads anymore.

I could be wrong but I think Missacre is a woman. And you aren't helping your cause by throwing "basement" in there again. You have a low opinion of gamers because they're male huh? Are you sexist or something? Gaming has never been "just for the lads". Women have had decades to get into game programming and design, but they, IN GENERAL, haven't been as interested as men. 

This article is about a tasteless and gross statue. It's one example among many of tasteless and gross things in gaming. The difference is that this one gets attention because it's about women. I don't even like this stupid statue. The double standard that violence against women is reprehensible and violence against men is entertainment, is becoming too much of a pink elephant in the room to ignore.

#2404 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

The most annoying thing about the statue is all of this "outrage" is giving attention to the spin-off to a janky POS game.

Well, that and it's fucking dumb, but what seems even more dumb is giving it so much attention. The statue is still coming out by the looks of it, so you've not exactly accomplished anything.

and the worst thing is I am quite confident nothing would have been said if the statue didn't have tits. That's the most disturbing thing here.

#2405 Posted by AlexanderSheen (4669 posts) -

@Sooty said:

The most annoying thing about the statue is all of this "outrage" is giving attention to the spin-off to a janky POS game.

Well, that and it's fucking dumb, but what seems even more dumb is giving it so much attention. The statue is still coming out by the looks of it, so you've not exactly accomplished anything.

and the worst thing is I am quite confident nothing would have been said if the statue didn't have tits. That's the most disturbing thing here.

Remember that trailer the first game got and the buzz that came with it? Those guys at the Deep Silver PR team are maybe unscrupulous but smart. Considering the attention around sexism in the video game industry, it would not surprise me if this was the intent all along. Just looking at how much people talk about that stupid statue and the title of this article with the name "Dead Island Riptide" in it, I think Deep Silver achieved what it wanted, advertisment.

#2406 Posted by Fat_Magnum (68 posts) -

Aww hell yeah check dat sexy torso. /sarcasmoff

What the fuck am I supposed to think of this kind of shit(the entire torso ordeal, not Klepek's write up) ? Seriously, I'm not sure what the desired outcome was. When I first read about it my thoughts were that the PR people involved with this were likely the technical definition of intellectually challenged. Nothing more to be said, really.

#2407 Posted by removesstains (66 posts) -

Way to reinforce stereo types by continuing to give this bullshit attention patrick.

#2408 Posted by StrikeALight (1111 posts) -

I just don't care enough. And I honestly don't know why there's so much moral outrage surrounding the marketing exploits of an infantile video game.

#2409 Posted by DefaultProphet (311 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

@JoeShadows said:

@Brodehouse: So, your argument is that people who don't have direct experience with something are just as qualified to speak on it as people who do have direct experience with it, because they can deduce everything that's relevant from pure logic? It's good to know that Aristotlean philosophy is alive and well- tell me, how many platonic solids make up the spheres of the heavens these days?

The 'direct experience' thing is an appeal to authority, rather than an examination of the actual argument made. If the argument made is ignorant, you should be able to point it out within the argument itself, rather than make an appeal to authority and ignore the argument altogether.

And your Greek reference is just a red herring.

This isn't high level stuff here, this is the core things you would learn in a basic course on logic. And I think anyone who marks off logic as being the principal factor of the objective quality of an argument has abandoned reason and rationality.

There is nothing worse in a discussion than an ex-high school debate team member.

#2410 Posted by Brodehouse (9370 posts) -

@DefaultProphet said:

@Brodehouse said:

@JoeShadows said:

@Brodehouse: So, your argument is that people who don't have direct experience with something are just as qualified to speak on it as people who do have direct experience with it, because they can deduce everything that's relevant from pure logic? It's good to know that Aristotlean philosophy is alive and well- tell me, how many platonic solids make up the spheres of the heavens these days?

The 'direct experience' thing is an appeal to authority, rather than an examination of the actual argument made. If the argument made is ignorant, you should be able to point it out within the argument itself, rather than make an appeal to authority and ignore the argument altogether.

And your Greek reference is just a red herring.

This isn't high level stuff here, this is the core things you would learn in a basic course on logic. And I think anyone who marks off logic as being the principal factor of the objective quality of an argument has abandoned reason and rationality.

There is nothing worse in a discussion than an ex-high school debate team member.

And that's a personal attack.

#2411 Posted by TrevorCCW (1 posts) -

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

#2412 Posted by DefaultProphet (311 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

@DefaultProphet said:

@Brodehouse said:

@JoeShadows said:

@Brodehouse: So, your argument is that people who don't have direct experience with something are just as qualified to speak on it as people who do have direct experience with it, because they can deduce everything that's relevant from pure logic? It's good to know that Aristotlean philosophy is alive and well- tell me, how many platonic solids make up the spheres of the heavens these days?

The 'direct experience' thing is an appeal to authority, rather than an examination of the actual argument made. If the argument made is ignorant, you should be able to point it out within the argument itself, rather than make an appeal to authority and ignore the argument altogether.

And your Greek reference is just a red herring.

This isn't high level stuff here, this is the core things you would learn in a basic course on logic. And I think anyone who marks off logic as being the principal factor of the objective quality of an argument has abandoned reason and rationality.

There is nothing worse in a discussion than an ex-high school debate team member.

And that's a personal attack.

.....Well played

#2413 Posted by CarlosTheDwarf (40 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor...

Oh God I would love to see the forums after that. They would fucking lose their shit.

Not if she actually wrote about gaming instead of freshman-level feminism LiveJournal posts. I'd love to see a decent, mature female member on the team instead of Patrick's insufferable adolescent political soapboxing. I suspect most would agree with me.

#2414 Posted by Gildermershina (251 posts) -

Game marketed to young men with a comically busty limbless, headless female torso. That is sexist. I mean, it's not sexist in a meaningful way, it's just casually "oh, yeah, whatever, it's a dumb video game thing" kind of way. It's just an exaggerated version of the everyday kind of misogynistic shit that just seems to permeate video-game marketing. This should be offensive to everyone, because of how fucking dumb Deep Silver thinks its audience is. And I don't know, maybe they're right, and a significant portion of their audience is that dumb. But those of us who are not should just sit back and be okay with this dumb shit, we should tell these people "no, this is dumb, and it makes you look bad, and it makes all of us look bad." This is the reason I don't like to be labelled a "gamer", because of shit like this.

I don't think this is a huge issue, but it's an interesting one. At this point I'm really more interested in how video games relate to contemporary culture at large, than actually playing the latest Call of Duty or Halo or Gears or whatever else.

In some ways however, I wish this article had some male perspective, because I'm getting a little bit weary of the whole plethora of women-in-gaming issues being treated as "quick, go find some women and see what they think!" I think prominent industry women shouldn't have to be trotted out to speak on behalf of all women everywhere every time dumb shit like this happens. They should be part of the conversation, probably the greater part, but the issue affects the perception of all gamers.

#2415 Posted by Moe_DeLawn (6 posts) -

One commenter motioned the view point of men which I think is poignant. Another has indicated their distaste for Patrick which is quite frankly ridiculous. i think we need to internalize that there are business people who say yes and great sales people who build a yes in front of marketing teams with terrible ideas. Bottom line on this issue is as follows:

Exec:"What if it causes feminist reaction?"

Marketing/Sales guy: "Then the internet will react and we will get free advertising"

Exec: "Oh. Then do it."

Marketing/Sales guy:"OK!"

-two months later-

Exec: "I just got a phone call from some website about this..."

Marketing/Sales Guy: "It worked!! Also, i saved your money in advertising fees."

Exec: "wait... who is reactiong?"

Marketing/Sales Guy:"Women... mostly"

Exec:"Women don't play games!! I've seen the demographics..."

Marketing/Sales Guy: "Well.. women do play games."

Exec:"I get that... do we have bikini clad women and zombies in this game?"

Marketing/Sales Guy:"Yes."

Exec:"... why didn't they react to that?"

#2416 Posted by NMC2008 (1167 posts) -

@Moe_DeLawn said:

One commenter motioned the view point of men which I think is poignant. Another has indicated their distaste for Patrick which is quite frankly ridiculous. i think we need to internalize that there are business people who say yes and great sales people who build a yes in front of marketing teams with terrible ideas. Bottom line on this issue is as follows:

Exec:"What if it causes feminist reaction?"

Marketing/Sales guy: "Then the internet will react and we will get free advertising"

Exec: "Oh. Then do it."

Marketing/Sales guy:"OK!"

-two months later-

Exec: "I just got a phone call from some website about this..."

Marketing/Sales Guy: "It worked!! Also, i saved your money in advertising fees."

Fixed for accuracy.

#2417 Posted by bko (132 posts) -

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor so we can have less of these pandering articles. There are far worse things happening in advertising, my local dentist has a hot model as their clinic poster girl... I mean it's a dentist, she doesn't even work there!!!

Shhhhhhh. This community doesn't yet know that women are allowed to write and have opinions and hold jobs. Don't upset them!

#2418 Posted by skooks (85 posts) -

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

/thread.

#2419 Posted by Krullban (981 posts) -

@bko said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor so we can have less of these pandering articles. There are far worse things happening in advertising, my local dentist has a hot model as their clinic poster girl... I mean it's a dentist, she doesn't even work there!!!

Shhhhhhh. This community doesn't yet know that women are allowed to write and have opinions and hold jobs. Don't upset them!

Posts like this just piss me off. None of the posts here even suggest shit like this.

Fuck off.

#2420 Posted by ptys (1747 posts) -

@Krullban said:

@bko said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor so we can have less of these pandering articles. There are far worse things happening in advertising, my local dentist has a hot model as their clinic poster girl... I mean it's a dentist, she doesn't even work there!!!

Shhhhhhh. This community doesn't yet know that women are allowed to write and have opinions and hold jobs. Don't upset them!

Posts like this just piss me off. None of the posts here even suggest shit like this.

Fuck off.

Haha, I thought it was quite funny, made me chuckle ; )

#2421 Posted by FoolishChaos (408 posts) -

For me the statue was less "ew blatant boobs" and more "what the FUCK its a horrifically mutilated corpse why would anyone in their right mind want this."

But I guess that's the state of things

#2422 Posted by JoshyLee (169 posts) -

@Krullban said:

@bko said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor so we can have less of these pandering articles. There are far worse things happening in advertising, my local dentist has a hot model as their clinic poster girl... I mean it's a dentist, she doesn't even work there!!!

Shhhhhhh. This community doesn't yet know that women are allowed to write and have opinions and hold jobs. Don't upset them!

Posts like this just piss me off. None of the posts here even suggest shit like this.

Fuck off.

Why? Just because it takes an issue and reduces it down to ridiculous extremes so that anyone with an opinion different than theirs looks like a woman hating misogynist? That's how lazy people win arguments.

#2423 Posted by AkihikoSenpai (32 posts) -

Do you not realise that this fabricated 'misogyny' breeds nothing but animosity? Giant Bomb is not your blog and you are the only thing holding me back from a premium membership. I love this site and this is not what I want it to turn into, this is merely a polite request.

#2424 Edited by Gordy (193 posts) -

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

This needs to be reposted again and again.

#2425 Posted by BRNK (300 posts) -

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

Indeed.

#2426 Posted by Missacre (566 posts) -

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

"As gamers, " Stopped reading right there.

#2427 Posted by drgrumbles (202 posts) -

Who the fuck cares?

#2428 Posted by Captainlunchbox (438 posts) -

I feel like I'm the only one not surprised that something like this would come from the creators of Dead Island. Just a couple years back, they gave us a surprisingly emotional look at their game, only to give us an end product that was completely misrepresented. So here they are again, apparently... attempting to get that necrophiliac dollar. I don't think it was purposefully misogynistic, just really, really fucking stupid-and yet another round of ammo against people who play videogames as a hobby. That last part is something that I think Patrick attempts to point out, not in a sort of "THIS SHIT MAKES US ALL LOOK BAD" kind of way but rather "Don't be this" example.

Does it get too much attention from him? Who is really to say? I'm a paying member, and I, for one, am glad to see some conscientious pieces done every now and again. The people who complain about it are probably just really fucking uncomfortable or ashamed. Whatever. Find another site.

#2429 Posted by NMC2008 (1167 posts) -

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

My reaction to this post, i'm sorry but I disagree completely. I will take my leave from this thread as it is too much for me.

#2430 Posted by Missacre (566 posts) -

@Captainlunchbox said:

I feel like I'm the only one not surprised that something like this would come from the creators of Dead Island. Just a couple years back, they gave us a surprisingly emotional look at their game, only to give us an end product that was completely misrepresented. So here they are again, apparently... attempting to get that necrophiliac dollar. I don't think it was purposefully misogynistic, just really, really fucking stupid-and yet another round of ammo against people who play videogames as a hobby. That last part is something that I think Patrick attempts to point out, not in a sort of "THIS SHIT MAKES US ALL LOOK BAD" kind of way but rather "Don't be this" example.

Does it get too much attention from him? Who is really to say? I'm a paying member, and I, for one, am glad to see some conscientious pieces done every now and again. The people who complain about it are probably just really fucking uncomfortable or ashamed. Whatever. Find another site.

You see, the thing is, I'm not uncomfortable of ashamed. I'm actually pissed off at the white knight brigade coming to bring down the patriarchy in favor of a feminist-run world. Also, I think I'll stay here. I happen to like this site, and my view of things is as valid as yours.

#2431 Posted by Ravenlight (8033 posts) -

Okay, I've been away from the internet for a solid twelve hours. Have we figured out a solution to this thing yet?

#2432 Posted by BawlZINmotion (704 posts) -

I'm a guy so I apparently don't know any better, but Saints' Row 3 is a lot more offensive to women than this. However I'm not offended, in either case. Life is too short and I have too many other things of concern to worry about a piece of crappy plastic likely made in China.

Now I got two groups pissed at me, yes!

#2433 Posted by Missacre (566 posts) -

@BawlZINmotion said:

I'm a guy so I apparently don't know any better, but Saints' Row 3 is a lot more offensive to women than this. However I'm not offended, in either case. Life is too short and I have too many other things of concern to worry about a piece of crappy plastic likely made in China.

Now I got two groups pissed at me, yes!

Not even, dude. I agree with you on this. Also, SR3 wasn't offensive, at least not to me. It was lots of fun. People just need to stop worrying about everything. I swear, they see a naked tit and they scream SEXIST PIGS. It does make me sad.

#2434 Posted by BawlZINmotion (704 posts) -

@Missacre said:

@BawlZINmotion said:

I'm a guy so I apparently don't know any better, but Saints' Row 3 is a lot more offensive to women than this. However I'm not offended, in either case. Life is too short and I have too many other things of concern to worry about a piece of crappy plastic likely made in China.

Now I got two groups pissed at me, yes!

Not even, dude. I agree with you on this. Also, SR3 wasn't offensive, at least not to me. It was lots of fun. People just need to stop worrying about everything. I swear, they see a naked tit and they scream SEXIST PIGS. It does make me sad.

Oh I don't think SR3 is offensive, not in the least. I think with my head.... oh forget it, no one else would understand. I'm just comparing it to the distaste expressed for the "bust" featured in this article. The level SR3 goes to is far beyond this, but I don't recall the same level of "opinion" leveled when it released.

#2435 Edited by hinderk (682 posts) -

After reading some of the comments in this thread, I think I'm officially going to lump people who are complaining about "feminist propaganda" with people who complain about the "homosexual agenda".

#2436 Posted by DiGiTaL_SiN (1789 posts) -

Leigh Alexander is Anonymous.

#2437 Posted by LiquidS (970 posts) -

@DiGiTaL_SiN said:

Leigh Alexander is Anonymous.

We are all Anonymous. Sex bad, Violence Ok.

#2438 Edited by Krullban (981 posts) -

So far I've gone through a little bit of this topic, and here's the stats I've got written down so far.

194 posts that are in no possible way sexist, and state in a perfectly respectable manner as to how they think this statue is not sexist.

14 posts that could actually legitimately considered to be coming from sexists.

97 posts that are in no possible way offensive, and state in a perfectly respectable manner as to how they think this statue is sexist.

397 posts saying nothing but "everybody who doesn't look at this and automatically think this is sexist is a misogynistic asshole who deserves to die, and is the most sexist "boy" pig on the planet." and how everybody posting is the scum of the earth, and rather than respectably stating their opinion on the matter, just bash and insult everybody in the topic.

There's something off here. I must investigate.

#2439 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5750 posts) -

@BawlZINmotion: it's funny, I remember I was kind of perplexed as to why SR3 didn't generate any controversy regarding its treatment of women when it was still new.

That year there was a thread full of people who were mad that Bioware decided to put femshep as the reverse cover of Mass Effect 3, but apparently nobody thought it was important to discuss the fact that there is a mission in SR3 where you can kidnap a bunch of prostitutes and make them work for your orgnanization.

lolpeoplelol

#2440 Posted by Akyho (1549 posts) -

@Krullban: Answere. The mods deleted all the truley horrible comments. I know they did since the first 4 pages quickly filled with

abuse towards Patrick and Women. A good number was very harsh. The mods have cleaned up those posts. Deleting them and suspending or banning accounts.

The level of discussion is the highest you will get with mods. Without mods its a hell hole.

#2441 Posted by MURDERSMASH (248 posts) -

@TrevorCCW said:

As gamers, we should be offended that this type of marketing is what elements of the industry think we respond to.

As men, we should be offended that expectations of us are so low that we are supposed to be titillated by a fraction of a woman and the aftermath of violence.

As human beings, we should be having these conversations about what these labels and expectations and depictions are saying about our culture.

As privileged Westerners, we need to be sensitive that it's worse elsewhere, but also of the fact that our own mothers and sisters and girlfriends and daughters and wives are still being marginalized.

Conclusion: fuck you little pricks, seriously. Klepek reached out to informed industry professionals who you've infantilized and dismissed without addressing their arguments. Also go read some books about this shit and see how quickly your opinion changes.

We have a winner. Thank you.

#2442 Posted by jmic75 (261 posts) -

For the most part I thought the opinions by the authors were fair. I do take issue with:

Ms. Meadows arguing that women who would have no intention to buy this special edition anyway should complain about it so that it doesn't get sold. To me this thinking is on par with vegetarians yelling that meat is murder or Peta folks yelling that fur is murder. These tactics are basically designed to bully people into doing something you want them to do. If you don't like it, fine, don't buy it, you've spoken with your dollars and if enough people agree with you, they'll never do something like this again because it'll cost them money. Having a small vocal minority imposing their will onto everyone else is not something I can support. As to her boob job comment, classical sculptures were also stylised to reflect the notion of female beauty at the time, and gravity was also a lot weaker back then as well.

Ms. DeLoria's whole rant was just irrelevant sensationalism. Most people clearly understand the difference between real murder and a dumb zombie torso. To make the insinuation that this statue encourages people to think of violent murder and sex as being intertwined is taking a bit of a leap.

Ms. Hunter takes the odd (in my opinion) stance that the statue looks too much like dead meat, which kinda seemed like the point. She would have preferred a statue like the venus di milo, however wouldn't making a statue more realistic or in a more visually pleasing position work more towards the objectification of women that she is against? Men who objectify women don't actually see them as chunks of meat, they view them as attractive-sexual objects who solely exist to full fill their needs. I am in no way saying that this statue actively works against this objectification in men, but I seriously doubt it encourages in, and making the statue look like anything other than a chunk of meat (something not sexual for most normal people) would have made it worse. Making an inanimate object sexy does not foster the gender relation ideas of men having dominance over women who exist only as sexual objects, as no social interaction is depicted. If you wanted to argue that pornography or even older James Bond movies encouraged objectification I'd agree with you because they show relations where women are being submissive and usually only appear for sex with men.

Ms. Cooke's assertion that the statue is sexist because of the proportions doesn't really hold water. How is creating a statue with idealised proportions sexist? It makes no value statements about a woman's worth as being lower than a man's nor does it suggest any sort of gender stereotype. You may not like the mainstream's view of what idealised beauty is and the unrealistic depiction of a woman's body definitely contributes to poor body image for a lot of girls and women, however it is not sexist.

As to the complains that not showing damage on the breasts makes it worse, they could have shown tears on the bathing suit to show exposed breasts which would have been way worse, and had they showed a chunk out of the breasts tissue, as dumb as it is, I'm sure that would have violated some indecency law about showing "exposed" breasts.

The statue is a dumb juvenile object but on it's own, it is not sexist, it is not chauvinistic, it does not promote violence against women. It should not be banned, it'll flop on it's own. I take no issue with articles like this showing up on Giantbomb, but really the most sexist things about this whole thing was Patrick saying that the torso crossed a line because it was a woman (implying there is a difference between the genders when it comes down to the appropriateness of dismembered torsos) and then only getting the opinions of women in the industry. Stuff like this affects men as well as women. I would however like to get opinions from people in the games industry proper, rather than from games writers who will tend to lean towards the more sensationalistic responses and who will cover these subjects on their own sites anyway.

#2443 Edited by Paindamnation (758 posts) -

@jmic75 said:

For the most part I thought the opinions by the authors were fair. I do take issue with:

Ms. Meadows arguing that women who would have no intention to buy this special edition anyway should complain about it so that it doesn't get sold. To me this thinking is on par with vegetarians yelling that meat is murder or Peta folks yelling that fur is murder. These tactics are basically designed to bully people into doing something you want them to do. If you don't like it, fine, don't buy it, you've spoken with your dollars and if enough people agree with you, they'll never do something like this again because it'll cost them money. Having a small vocal minority imposing their will onto everyone else is not something I can support. As to her boob job comment, classical sculptures were also stylised to reflect the notion of female beauty at the time, and gravity was also a lot weaker back then as well.

Ms. DeLoria's whole rant was just irrelevant sensationalism. Most people clearly understand the difference between real murder and a dumb zombie torso. To make the insinuation that this statue encourages people to think of violent murder and sex as being intertwined is taking a bit of a leap.

Ms. Hunter takes the odd (in my opinion) stance that the statue looks too much like dead meat, which kinda seemed like the point. She would have preferred a statue like the venus di milo, however wouldn't making a statue more realistic or in a more visually pleasing position work more towards the objectification of women that she is against? Men who objectify women don't actually see them as chunks of meat, they view them as attractive-sexual objects who solely exist to full fill their needs. I am in no way saying that this statue actively works against this objectification in men, but I seriously doubt it encourages in, and making the statue look like anything other than a chunk of meat (something not sexual for most normal people) would have made it worse. Making an inanimate object sexy does not foster the gender relation ideas of men having dominance over women who exist only as sexual objects, as no social interaction is depicted. If you wanted to argue that pornography or even older James Bond movies encouraged objectification I'd agree with you because they show relations where women are being submissive and usually only appear for sex with men.

Ms. Cooke's assertion that the statue is sexist because of the proportions doesn't really hold water. How is creating a statue with idealised proportions sexist? It makes no value statements about a woman's worth as being lower than a man's nor does it suggest any sort of gender stereotype. You may not like the mainstream's view of what idealised beauty is and the unrealistic depiction of a woman's body definitely contributes to poor body image for a lot of girls and women, however it is not sexist.

As to the complains that not showing damage on the breasts makes it worse, they could have shown tears on the bathing suit to show exposed breasts which would have been way worse, and had they showed a chunk out of the breasts tissue, as dumb as it is, I'm sure that would have violated some indecency law about showing "exposed" breasts.

The statue is a dumb juvenile object but on it's own, it is not sexist, it is not chauvinistic, it does not promote violence against women. It should not be banned, it'll flop on it's own. I take no issue with articles like this showing up on Giantbomb, but really the most sexist things about this whole thing was Patrick saying that the torso crossed a line because it was a woman (implying there is a difference between the genders when it comes down to the appropriateness of dismembered torsos) and then only getting the opinions of women in the industry. Stuff like this affects men as well as women. I would however like to get opinions from people in the games industry proper, rather than from games writers who will tend to lean towards the more sensationalistic responses and who will cover these subjects on their own sites anyway.

Damn. This is first comment out of..What..2,000 useless comments, that I like. So thank you.

Also, that little miss Deloria decided to change her picture because she thought her "Cosplay" routine, wasn't appropriate", honestly she had more cleavage showing then the statue. So anything "Sexist" from her side I immediately dismiss.

Online
#2444 Posted by Meowshi (2911 posts) -

@Paindamnation said:

@jmic75 said:

For the most part I thought the opinions by the authors were fair. I do take issue with:

Ms. Meadows arguing that women who would have no intention to buy this special edition anyway should complain about it so that it doesn't get sold. To me this thinking is on par with vegetarians yelling that meat is murder or Peta folks yelling that fur is murder. These tactics are basically designed to bully people into doing something you want them to do. If you don't like it, fine, don't buy it, you've spoken with your dollars and if enough people agree with you, they'll never do something like this again because it'll cost them money. Having a small vocal minority imposing their will onto everyone else is not something I can support. As to her boob job comment, classical sculptures were also stylised to reflect the notion of female beauty at the time, and gravity was also a lot weaker back then as well.

Ms. DeLoria's whole rant was just irrelevant sensationalism. Most people clearly understand the difference between real murder and a dumb zombie torso. To make the insinuation that this statue encourages people to think of violent murder and sex as being intertwined is taking a bit of a leap.

Ms. Hunter takes the odd (in my opinion) stance that the statue looks too much like dead meat, which kinda seemed like the point. She would have preferred a statue like the venus di milo, however wouldn't making a statue more realistic or in a more visually pleasing position work more towards the objectification of women that she is against? Men who objectify women don't actually see them as chunks of meat, they view them as attractive-sexual objects who solely exist to full fill their needs. I am in no way saying that this statue actively works against this objectification in men, but I seriously doubt it encourages in, and making the statue look like anything other than a chunk of meat (something not sexual for most normal people) would have made it worse. Making an inanimate object sexy does not foster the gender relation ideas of men having dominance over women who exist only as sexual objects, as no social interaction is depicted. If you wanted to argue that pornography or even older James Bond movies encouraged objectification I'd agree with you because they show relations where women are being submissive and usually only appear for sex with men.

Ms. Cooke's assertion that the statue is sexist because of the proportions doesn't really hold water. How is creating a statue with idealised proportions sexist? It makes no value statements about a woman's worth as being lower than a man's nor does it suggest any sort of gender stereotype. You may not like the mainstream's view of what idealised beauty is and the unrealistic depiction of a woman's body definitely contributes to poor body image for a lot of girls and women, however it is not sexist.

As to the complains that not showing damage on the breasts makes it worse, they could have shown tears on the bathing suit to show exposed breasts which would have been way worse, and had they showed a chunk out of the breasts tissue, as dumb as it is, I'm sure that would have violated some indecency law about showing "exposed" breasts.

The statue is a dumb juvenile object but on it's own, it is not sexist, it is not chauvinistic, it does not promote violence against women. It should not be banned, it'll flop on it's own. I take no issue with articles like this showing up on Giantbomb, but really the most sexist things about this whole thing was Patrick saying that the torso crossed a line because it was a woman (implying there is a difference between the genders when it comes down to the appropriateness of dismembered torsos) and then only getting the opinions of women in the industry. Stuff like this affects men as well as women. I would however like to get opinions from people in the games industry proper, rather than from games writers who will tend to lean towards the more sensationalistic responses and who will cover these subjects on their own sites anyway.

Damn. This is first comment out of..What..2,000 useless comments, that I like. So thank you.

Also, that little miss Deloria decided to change her picture because she thought her "Cosplay" routine, wasn't appropriate", honestly she had more cleavage showing then the statue. So anything "Sexist" from her side I immediately dismiss.

Wait, what?

So women who wear low-cut outfits aren't allowed to express their feelings regarding sexism?

Do you even realize what you're typing when you say it?

#2445 Edited by Paindamnation (758 posts) -

@Meowshi: No. The fact she originally ranted about "sexism" and "how this is so wrong and degrading" however she was dressing in cosplay in obviously a sexual manner, then "immediately" took it down.Because she said "there's a time and place for cosplay" It's your idiotic replies that continue to keep this page going. So feel free to quote me on that. So continue to defend people who have voices themselfs. I know what I'm typing by the way. I'm going to continue riding the riptide.

edit: Best damn thing said about this whole thing

Anonymous

I didn't feel offended by the Dead Island bikini statue. I did, however, find it quite tiresome"

Should have ended there. Didn't need 2,000 comments "defending women" they have mouths and hands, most likely, maybe robotic ones. They don't need "saviors" of the internet. The statue looks fine. Wanna know the reason why they were gonna sell it? Cause sex sells. I never agreed to it, nor do I dismiss it. Do you see super bowl adds with women wearing conservative clothing? Do you see cheerleaders wearing pants? No. While it is outdated thinking that women are not an audience for gaming, and that when women are seen gaming men swarm like bears to honey, it's a statue. You don't have to buy it, you don't even have to look at it. However, you cannot deny that sex sells. Now prove me right by replying with erroneous comments about women in the industry or how sex doesn't sell, I'll watch my 15 commercial during the basketball game that proves otherwise.

Online
#2446 Posted by Scooper (7882 posts) -

Awful article from an awful writer.

#2447 Posted by Plipster (129 posts) -

@CarlosTheDwarf said:

@JasonR86 said:

@ptys said:

Giant Bomb really need to hire a female editor...

Oh God I would love to see the forums after that. They would fucking lose their shit.

Not if she actually wrote about gaming instead of freshman-level feminism LiveJournal posts. I'd love to see a decent, mature female member on the team instead of Patrick's insufferable adolescent political soapboxing. I suspect most would agree with me.

Boom.

#2448 Posted by NeoZeon (69 posts) -

Honestly I could care less about whether or not the thing offends people.

My only real concern is if any made it to a store shelf somewhere, cause if it did and I find it? Well shit, that is easy money to be made off of some controversy-loving sucker.

#2449 Posted by Captainlunchbox (438 posts) -

@Missacre: "White knight brigade." "Feminist-run world"

See, you're dehumanizing the people affected by stuff like this. No, I'm not talking about the statue, but rather the rampant stupidity. It's really just a lot of men in the industry being totally inconsiderate. It's almost this fratboy mentality and it's kind of embarrassing. It isn't just another internet flamewar. It isn't restricted to a thread or an article. It's very real and it sucks.

#2450 Edited by EXTomar (4125 posts) -

It is kind of typical that instead of engaging in a discussion on something that has to do with sex is to retort with a derogatory sexual put down. It is fine to have the opposite opinion. It isn't fine to just disregard all discussion. It is not fine to reject any discussion as "feminist propaganda" because male or female there is something interesting going on here.

To me the real story here is how this item is a mirror reflecting on the gamer consumer. Someone over there thought this appealed to fans of Dead Island. Why did they think that in the first place?

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.