I just got back to playing Destiny recently, and wow, that game has not improved one bit when it comes to multiplayer. One would think this far in, the developers would have tweaked and balanced the game a bit. And sure, they have tweaked it, but only for the worse. They've ruined assault rifles, and left everything else the way it was. That means:

• Overpowered shotguns and fusion rifles. Especially the fusion rifles are a nightmare.
• Overpowered supers. Mostly the Bladedancer super. It's just awful.
• Too frequent supers. Supers should be something you get one or two times in a game. Instead, you get your supers three or four times in a single game. That makes the game a total clusterfuck.
• Heavy weapons. Still a huge problem. Fine if ammo dropped rarely, but it's way too frequent.

All of this makes for a boring multiplayer game. The main issue is that Guardians feel weak and fragile. They die of too few shots, and too many weapons are one hit kills. Layer that with the frequent supers, and you've got a game that is just plain bad.

Destiny has really soured me on Bungie as a developer. It makes me think that they're not really that good. I think they got lucky with Halo, and they understood that rule set, and it was hard to mess it up when the groundwork was so good. It's telling that they fail on most everything when they make a new franchise.

I finally picked up Sunset Overdrive and Master Chief collection so I'm planning on uninstalling Destiny on my Xbox One as soon as possible. I'm tired of the bad design choices and lack of content.

Destiny basically sends you off on a wild goose chase to grind endlessly for no reason whatsoever. What prize you may get for grinding will probably force you to grind some more. But for the multiplayer? Eh, everyones overpowered in some way, to the point where things get balanced out. I'm a titan so I can basically level the place without a sweat. Hunters and Warlocks probably feel the same. Fusion rifles can kill you in one hits but that requires huge precision at long distances.

The multiplayer is probably the only thing that doesn't bother me.

I actually play the game on a regular basis, a large part of that in the crucible, and kind of don't agree with a lot of what you're saying here.

Assault rifles are amazing and kill people in seconds. Shotguns are super powerful but only close up. I do agree that fusion rifles have a tendency to one shot you from quite a long distance. Very often I'd get into a dance of shooting a guy thats charging his fusion and hoping I can finish him off before he gets his shot off as it will most probably be a one hit kill.

If I do really good, like 30 kills in a match, I still get my super about 3 times. If I'm doing just average I barely get it twice. As for which is overpowered - they all are. I'm a hunter so I hate titans and their ridiculous ground strike. I equally hate warlocks with their nova blast. The grass is always greener on the other side. I will say, that basically every other super can cancel out my own, but not vice versa. I've knifed titans winding up for a super slam while in super to no effect.

Overall I enjoyed Destiny PVP a lot more than Halo. I think it's slower paced than more frantic shooters like Call of Duty but it's not as sluggish as Halo - in my personal opinion of course. I enjoy the feel of the weapons and I like supers that break the monotony of pew-pew-pew gameplay. I wish there was more weapon variety but oh well.

You let the Bungie win?! How could you!?

(Kidding obviously)

But yeah, multiplayer isn't all that bad, if it wasn't for the endless farming and grinding i'd probably stick around just to play PvP.

I have played / am playing Crucible matches 90% of the time and I consider myself fairly good at the game. I have to say that fusion rifles are a real problem because they are too good on all ranges! You can play around a shotgun (radar, good map awareness) and on certain maps it isn't even that useful. But there is absolutely no downside to a fusion rifle whatsoever because the charge time can easily be compensated by precharging and popping out of cover once in a while. I found that my enjoyment of the game sinks with every fusion rifle in play. Now everyone and their dog uses them in 28+ level matches.

My solution: limit special ammo more! Special weapons aren't special when you use them more than your so called primary weapon! When you already have one-hit attacks (supers) you don't need to introduce even more one-hitters. With this solution you don't even have to nerf the weapons and everyone is happy.

@theacidskull: Maybe it's stockholm syndrome, or maybe you just have to put 100 hours into it to reach some sort of breaking point, but after having played Destiny for so long I've reached some sort of understanding with the game. I also found a dedicated group of people to play it with and we raid once a week. Destiny has become sort of like basketball: you need at least one other person to play, and then you get together once a day or once a week to shoot some hoops. It's not incredibly exciting but it has it's moments, and once in a while you score a nice enough shot that makes you want to keep playing and get better.

Thats my basketball-Destiny analogy and I'm sticking with it. After work I'm picking up Dragon Age so that will offer some respite from my eternal prison, but unlike several weeks ago where I would've abandoned Destiny and never looked back, now I'll probably continue playing with friends and maybe even get that DLC.

My biggest problem with Destiny is that it costs full price for a single player with no story and one mission played on repeat, a handful of co-op missions that consist of linear dungeon crawling and bullet sponge bosses, and a multiplayer with one game mode that isn't even fun.

Pile on the fact that the RPG elements are borderline nonsense, and they want $29.99 for DLC of content half finished on disc that should be free for having the balls to charge full price for game with as much content as a $10 indie game and you have a bundled combination of time to move on.

This is what happens with these games: You either "buy in" on how the game is setup or you don't. But suggesting it is a "hot mess" really just means "I don't like it" instead of some objective measure.

If there is an issue it sounds like content isn't coming out fast enough or there is not enough of it.

@legion_ I agree, this is the least balanced multiplayer experience Bungie has ever released. The problem with supers is that its based on

1. How well you're playing
2. What kind of armor your wearing, and the stats it has (faster grenade cd, faster special cd, or x faster cd)
3. If you've picked up orbs from someone else who just did there special its possible to go from nearly nothing to your special.

I don't find shotguns or fusion rifles to be all that powerful, at least compared to other good guns. Shotguns dominate up close, like in every game, and Fusion rifles only really kill in "1 hit" if the entire shot is dead on. Depending on the rifle, this varies drastically (this is why the Vex mythoclast dominated in the last Iron Banner, same for Light/Beware). I typically can shut 90%+ of fusion rifles down easily with even my leveled New Monarchy Auto Rifle.

I do agree that many supers are overpowered. Blade Dancer is still the most OP special in the game, despite what some Hunters say: damage mitigation, shield regeneration, increased speed, one hit kills, lock on attacks, increased attack speed, and it lasts several seconds. The only time its possible to kill a Blade Dancer is in a group effort or if a hunter is stupid enough to pop it too far out and gets killed from range. Overall I think the powers at very little to the Crucible experience and I'd prefer a mode that was without supers. Warlocks are pretty powerful too, especially since they can hit their supers from range. Titans really only have that ability if they have Death From Above. I've found anything with consistent range has the advantage in this game.

I don't think heavy weapons are that frequent. Honestly, they feel as frequent as they were in the Halo games. Also, since the ammo drops only...2-3 times per session its not that prevalent, honestly. Now, some launcher/mgs have more ammo per pickup than others do, but you don't have an entire team with heavies or anything.

Destiny has soured me on Bungie as well.

@extomar You obviously didn't read anything past his title if you think he did voice any specific complaints...

I honestly think getting rid of orb generation in PvP would solve the super problem completely. You'd still get it quicker if you are playing well but there'd be no group of hunters just chaining supers together. I don't have any real balance complaints about weapons but we definitely need some new modes.

Still playing and enjoying Destiny though.

I'm not a big multiplayer gamer and I don't stick with any game for a long period of time, so perhaps my opinion on the subject doesn't matter, but I largely enjoyed my time with the multiplayer and there's not that much I would care to change. I'm glad it wasn't Halo multiplayer, nor should it be.

No I did and found his comments (and now yours) largely lacking. He thinks it is still a borked and boring game. If there was something real to discuss, do you not think I'd post more than I did?

If you need a direct hint: I suspect if they changed everything he wanted he would still say "Destiny is a hot mess". How do I know? Because I've seen this very same complaint with different names for so many other games. It is an uninteresting post that basically says the same thing so many others have said about so many other games that really don't say anything beyond "I don't like this game I thought I was supposed to like".

I understand that. Sadly I've got no one to play with since my friends don't yet have Xbox Ones, and I'm stuck with PvP and raids.Worst of it? I'm the Cryptarcs bitch. He gives me shit and I still come back with more stuff. Luckily, I've bought two new games and so i am at long last free.

Still, I guess it still does have it's merits but it's just a way to kill time for me, other than it just bores me. It's still a 6/10 overall if you ask me, but a month later I'm still disappointed.

I haven't played for about a month. I think this may honestly be the most disappointing game I've ever played.

Ironically I've been going through all the Halo games and having a blast.

The multiplayer is far from perfect, but let me comment on some of your points after sinking my fair share of hours in the Crucible. First of all, depsite the slight nerf to assault rifles, they're nowhere near ruined and are still wildly popular for their damage. To name a few popular choices, Suros Regime, Shadow Price, Atheon's Epilogue, and Vanquisher VIII make up a huge bulk of player's primaries. I have absolutely no idea why you've said they've ruined them. That's just false. If anything, they're still the top choice after the nerf.

- Shotguns aren't overpowered anymore, not at anything further than close-quarters anyway. The only scenario where you'll be getting downed with them is close quarters combat ONLY. Picking shotgunners off at mid-range with primary weapons is not only doable, it's almost guaranteed. Fusion rifles do have range drop off, but still hit hard across the board. Aiming paired with charge rate balances out their damage, with only a few exceptions at the Exotic level breaking balance. Overall, still wouldn't consider them more overpowered than a sniper or a shotgun for their respective use unless we're mentioning maybe two Exotic variants.

- Yeah, supers can be a pain but they're supposed to feel overpowered. That's the whole point. Beyond that, there's room for error when using any super, some less than others of course. I'll agree with Bladedancer. Although fun to use, armor on Arc Blade is still a tad too high and really only a sticky grenade or close quarters shotgun blast will put the player down fast enough. Increase Arc Blade speed a tad, decrease the shield generously and the problem's solved.

- Disagree with the frequency. They don't last long enough to completely matter and in some game types like Rumble, you'll barely see two per game being used. Personal preference perhaps, but I don't agree with you.

- Yeah, heavy weapons deal huge damage but as soon as you die, so does your heavy weapon. On average I'd say heavy weapon spread lasts two minutes at most. Sooner than later, heavy users die. And way too frequent? Huh? There's two, maybe three heavy drops per game. In what world is that frequent compared to running game times?

@extomar: You just sound like someone who wants to be contrary and complain about complainers. Also, to directly answers your question of, "If there was something real to discuss, do you not think I'd post more than I did?" No, I think you'd do exactly what you did, and hilariously enough I figured you would. If it bothers you so much why did you feel the time to say anything? I outlined above why. Bravo.

@sammo21: He's not really that contrarian as both myself and Feels have gone over the points one by one and largely share the same contrary opinions to that of Legion. It's not a really a hot mess, the multiplayer anyway. There is quite a lot of balance in the online, even too much at times. The game auto balances so heavily that I was able to get first place when using a level 4 character against level 29's. Everyone, more or less, does the same damage - it's a very equal playing field. I won't go through all the points all over again but honestly the online is fine.

Also, despite what a lot of non-hunters might tell you, bladedancer is just as situational as any other super in the game. There are times when I get an entire team in a single use, and then there are times when I get gunned down in what seems like seconds or get one kill and roam around the map until it runs out. Like I said, you want to counter a bladedancer? Use ground strike or nova bomb and I die instantly. I can't cancel out a titan or warlock super with my own. I need to know there are several people, in a group, and I can get the jump on them to get the most out of my super - and that strategy is true for all the supers.

Now if were talking about the PVE part of the game - then yah I still think a large part of it is very lacking. I mean this latest patch added the ability to talk with people that aren't in your party, in a game thats all about group activities - thats nuts.

@humanity: Wait...you think that Blade Dancer shouldn't be killed by another Guardian's super?

Come on dude, now you're reaching. Where did Humanity say this should be the case? It's quite apparent Humanity is stating that while Arc Blade can be canceled, Nova Bomb and Fist of Havoc cannot, or at the very least, have an extremely short window to be canceled by other players when compared directly to Arc Blade.

@sammo21: I never said that. I said blade dancer gets cancelled out by every other super in the game but it in turn can't cancel out anybody elses super. I'm saying it has the longest activation animation out of all the supers, and I'm saying it requires you to close the distance to your targets and is still susceptible to one hit kills from fusion rifles. I've died countless times from some guy just shooting me in the face with a fusion when I was dashing towards him.

As I outlined in my initial post - the grass is always greener on the other side. I thin nova bomb is complete bullshit - you almost instantly throw a super fast projectile that has the splash area effect of the titan smash? Sounds kinda good, but hey, thats just me.

@feels
@humanity Except Fist of Havoc can be negated. In fact, depending on where the Titan comes from you can kill them while they are starting it up, and even in the air. The only way a Titan can make themselves less open to attacks while doing Fist of Havoc is to set the class ability to where you take less damage when you start up opposed to doing the dash melee or whatever else in that in tier. I don't know about Warlock's Nova Bomb as most of them are at plenty of range when they shoot it off.

@sammo21: You're right. I edited my post almost immediately after I hit enter so my bad for not proof reading the comment. Still though, the window is extremely small like I stated, and you can't tell me it's a regular occurrence. Besides, what was being discussed was you stating something that was simply not said.

@sammo21: I have, on numerous occasions, meleed titans that were initiating their Fist of Havoc while I was in Blade Dancer mode and it did absolutely nothing. I've even managed to hit titans with sticky grenades and watch them explode in mid Fist of Havoc animation and they lived. I'm pretty sure there is a window there, an ever so small one, but for the most part they seem invulnerable to attacks. It may also be lag, who knows, Destiny is actually kinda iffy about lag.

@humanity
@feels it all depends on how they have their Titan specialized. If they have the melee charge ability, then you will be able to kill them. If you have that ability off then it will be harder to kill them and the window is much, much, much larger.

On top of that (yay more balance problems) is the fact that with exotic armors you can have even more of the abilities on your character. My Titan can do Fist of Havoc and something else on top of however I have my character specc'ed, and I know other pieces do things like give you more ammo, grenades, increase the amount of shots that Golden Gun has , etc; its just too much and I feel Bungie doesn't know how to handle it.

Heavy Weapons are fine, they just add an additional map objective. In certain modes given that there aren't any objectives and always on radar greatly restricts player movement in the absence of them they're probably the only thing going. Obviously you should just be playing Control because of that. One-Shot Grenades can be added to your list, every grenade in the game that isn't a damaging aura should do roughly the same amount of damage give or take 20%. Here's something that's actually broken though (from a few hours ago):

Advanced Warfare came out and largely erased Destiny from my everyday consciousness. Does it have boost-dashes? Can I do a ground-pound? It's hilarious that a tired series beaten into the ground by annualisation has a better and more rewarding loot system than Destiny.

@impartialgecko: You're right. Giving players gear that is only available to them for short periods of time before being taken back is rewarding.

I recently got hipped to the operate multiple characters, stack your loot philosophy and I have to say that the complaints about the single player content are largely unfounded. Luckily I had some gear stashed away from the days when Titans got Hunter gear drops so my new character instantly moved from Level 20 to Level 25.5 once I hit the first cap, but it took my three days to get to Level 20 just as it did with the Titan and I do think the game felt significantly different since the Bladedancer (haven't tried Gunslinger) doesn't automatically clear out everyone around you or immediately give you a huge bubble shield + shield when you leave the bubble that regenerates whenever you drop back in + blinds enemies thanks to my cool hat. I felt/feel super vulnerable using that class' super unlike the Titan.

I mean, theres a lot of orbiting and standing in the Tower but the Bungie site says Ive put nearly five days of my life into this game and I know there are people who have put way more so there is definitely something there. The game just FEELS right, even if most of its systems remain exploitative Ive probably run the Psion Flayers strike 12 or 15 times and don't feel any bit annoyed by it, in fact I love that the mission is taking me and random fire team members 10-15 minutes to complete instead of the 20-40 it would take when I was first starting out on Vanguard Tiger.

As for the Crucible, I think you're pretty off base. As Humanity said, I was totally fucking useless outside of Control (Ive never been lower than second in control point captures for a match) until I got the Grim Citizen III Legendary auto rifle, I really don't understand how any other gun could be considered useful in PVP. Once I got that gun I immediately leapt from a consistent last place, 0.30 K/D ratio to a more respectable 2nd/3rd place, .80-1.10 K/D ratio. For someone who hasn't engaged with FPS PVP since Modern Warfare 1/Killzone 2 Im real proud of myself, but its really all in the gun.

The one thing thats bugging me is how much more difficult the weekly strikes seem to be to solo following the latest patch. There are reports Icebreaker got nerfed and in some instances I can tell, in others it seems fine. But the fact that Sepiks Prime is the big bad this week and I cant even get out of the first encounter with three waves of Fallen and Hive is a real bummer to me, I couldn't complete last weeks Heroic Strike on my own either.

Which reminds me, PSN: Nodima if you want to add someone to your friends list who's usually playing this game five or six hours a day to the great protest of his friends who own the game and have given up on it and girlfriend who'd really prefer if I were letting her play GTA V or Sleeping Dogs.

Lastly, I find it a little absurd that there is matchmaking for everything but the dailies and weeklies. I do (don't) understand why its not available for the raid, but I should really be able to just get synced up with some random dudes and run the Nightfall if I don't have anyone to play it with at the moment or my buddies have already ran it and are focused on their Bounties. Getting trapped in a situation where nobody you know wants to run the Nightfall for the XP boost is a real bummer, and its also the reason I haven't got to try the raid yet (well, I did get to jump in at the end of one and try to beat Atheon but we were 26, 27 and 28 at the time and only five members so we could only ever get VERY, VERY close to taking him down).

It should be noted that some of the maps are fantastic (Shores of Time, every Mars map) and others are atrocious (Moon map is literally just a random swathe of moon territory with no thought put into it whatsoever, Twilight Gap is trash). Iron Banner appears to be the "do shitty damage if you're not level 30!" event.

My problem with PVP aside the horrible balance is that it really makes no sense in the context of the game progression. A 2 hour newly made character level 3 hunter can be as competitive as a lvl 30 - 300 hours warlock in the crucible. So why even grind the PVP? all the rewards are for PVE and if you don't like PVE as in my case, there is absolutely no incentive to do good in the crucible other than personal satisfaction.

You can argue you play games like HALO, COD or BF without the need of armor rewards and that is indeed true, but then again those games are actually well balance and make for a better competitive experience overall, with more substance and variety.

Oh, I forgot to mention something as well. The maps. I mean come on. How often do I have to play on Rusted Lands? I feel I'm playing that map at least 60% of the time. And there's only two maps with vehicles, and they never seem to be in rotation. That sucks big time.

I know I complain a lot about Destiny, and I do think I do so on fair grounds, but still there's this weird thing about that game that makes me continue to play it. It might just be that there is basically nothing else on the PS4 worth playing. That all changes tomorrow when Inquisition drops in my mail. Can't wait!

@feels: Only true for a couple of items and they are all cosmetic. The gameplay-relevant guns are all permanent and can even be cashed in for XP. Strange how a little bit of variety helps a lot when you have a lot of guns which are fun and interesting to shoot instead of four standard weapons that barely differ until you've played over 40 hours of the damn thing. Advanced Warfare isn't amazing by any means, but it reminded me that continuing to play Destiny is tantamount to embracing Stockholm syndrome.

Yeah it isn't a hot mess, you just don't like the game. Destiny's problems are a lack of content and a goofy late game leveling system. Everything else you mentioned is you not like the core game.

@impartialgecko: Fair enough. I'll give you that it takes some time to invest in your FIRST character to get up to raid, weekly heroic and nightfall standards, but once you're there, loot drops are plentiful -- especially with weapons. Spending time to get to the end game is required, but I'd argue that's a requirement of any MMO (let's just label it what it really is). Of course you have to factor in RNG, and although your luck with drops may have been disappointing, mine's been anything but. However, after your first character is decently geared up, you'll realistically already have the means to gear any character(s) you choose to make afterwards fairly well. With more characters to run the content, you'll acquire more gear.

I guess my point is that my primary weapon slots are more than half full with exotics, and I have several others laying around for my special weapons and heavy weapons. Everything else is of legendary quality. The large majority of exotic and legendary weapons have perks unique enough to differentiate each weapon from the other, and all have upgrade trees that let me play around with varying degrees of customization -- different scopes, bullet effects, reload speeds, etc. The customization for weapons in Advanced Warfare doesn't differentiate itself too much from this, and barely at all from past Call of Duty games. You still have your same old assault rifles, sub-machines, shotguns, heavy weapons, etc. And much like Destiny, they all have their little stat bars that you can play around with through add-on customization. Things like lasers can't save a stale variety of weapons to begin with. But that's just how I feel. To each his own I guess.

@impartialgecko: Isn't it all just random in AW as well?

It's funny how I think none of what you mention is overpowered. It's all rather balanced actually. Shotguns and Fusion Rifles have a huge drawback that you just haven't been able to spot or take advantage of. Also, I'm pretty sure I kill as many people with my Super as I get killed by one. Same for heavy weapons. Isn't that the definition of balance?