The problem with a horde mode is that there is not really any regular combat challenge that is actually hard in the entire game. If their horde mode is just a big arena with a bunch of enemies and a few modifiers I can see us getting through it like a knife through butter. Raids are challenging because they require coordination and have hard and varied objectives with harsh time limits. If the arena is just ''kill those enemies, there is a lot of them'' that is a problem 3 gjalahorns, 3 black hammers and 3 fate bringers can solve with ease, especially if we can get that stuff to 364.

If we're going by the way almost everything has been treated up to this point it will be the same mix of things we've already seen. Bigger versions of existing enemies. Given their love of pure random, maybe a mix of random pre-existing modifiers that could make some rounds/waves just fucked, and others cake. The fact that their last piece of content's difficulty (HM CE) comes almost entirely from the level cap, and not mechanics, I don't have much hope.

Would be excited for a horde mode as something additional, less excited when it's announced as a replacement for what has been 100% the best pieces of content in the game so far. Also, it's really frustrating to not get more 6 player content, that might bum me out more than anything else. The fact that they couldn't keep it at 6, or have 3 and 6man versions, or something to accommodate all the group creation they already facilitated is really disheartening. I like playing with you guys.

When I bought the season pass, I mostly thought "Cool, two more raids", rather than being excited about armor/level cap. VoG was fantastic, and it got me quite excited to play Hive and Fallen versions. I realize they didn't spell that out 100%, but if they charge us again for a Fallen raid in the Fall that's really shitty.

Heck, who knows if the rewards will be worth it at all. Necrochasm remains complete garbage, and I don't think it's even been mentioned in any updates or blog posts. I just don't have faith in them at this point, although I am open to being pleasantly surprised.

@cwal37: They've mentioned in the open Q&A they had a few weeks ago they know about the necrochasm. It's probably going to get adressed in the next exotic weapon rebalance which they said they were going to get to at some point.

If there's one thing I want them to improve in destiny 2 aside from amount of content and story, it's the timeliness of their updates. Being stuck for what will probably be 6 months with that pile of garbage exotic weapons is just unacceptable. Like everything in this game, it's probably going to be fixed eventually, just months too late.

Yeah, the fact that they have just this past week fixed the portal shenanigans in VoG which have been present since week 1 in unacceptable.

As far as potential challenge in a horde mode is concerned, I think they could find a way to make it challenging in a satisfying way. Firefight in the Halo games was great because more skulls were activated the further you made it. By the end every skull would be active and things would get very challenging. I think something similar for the arena mode could be great as long they add some new and more interesting modifiers (the current ones have been stale for a while). They could make things more interesting in other ways, (ME3 style objectives, Gears 3 style fortifications, etc) but who knows what they end up doing.

The approach I'm taking is not to jump to conclusions about what exactly this mode will entail. At the very least this will be something completely new to the game, which has been a rarity. I would have loved a new raid, don't get me wrong, but this could end up being really great in its own right. And honestly, I'd rather something new than another 30 min raid on the level of Crota's End (which is not nearly as good as VoG). If it turns out we get this new mode now and a much meatier and more substantial raid with the comet, that would okay with me.

@nodima: I swear that was totally us that threw you into the deep end to start you in VoG Hard. That's my bad, I don't think I knew it was your first Raid. The Raids are at their best when either everyone is experienced or nobody is. If I had known it was your first we probably would have run through it on Normal first.

Did everyone get a chance to see the Reef reveal? Here is the link to watch it if you haven't yet. Some pretty awesome stuff they are doing that I am personally pretty excited about.

• Factions have new weapons and gear in their inventory
• New Crucible and Vanguard gear can be Reforged with different perk sets by the Gunsmith (cost 1 mote, 3 weapon parts, and 250 glimmer)
• In the Tower, you can exchange upgrade materials with the Speaker, both shards for motes and glimmer, and both energies for shards.
• Commendation are going away and are not needed to purchase gear anymore, but leftovers can be used for 250 faction experience each
• Any and all legendary/exotic armor can be ascended to damage 365 and 42 light (all 4 pieces give you the new level cap of 34) by either using Exotic shards or the new Ethiric Light (different materials plus glimmer as well)
• Since all Legendary gear can be ascended to 42 light, this basically creates a transmogrification system by allowing all gear to obtain the maximum level cap, allowing all Guardians to look more unique than before
• No need to wait for Xur to upgrade weapons/armor, can be done anytime, also Xur can now appear in the Reef or Tower

This makes the game extremely accessible for newer Guardians, and give us old vets a use for our hundreds deep stockpile of shards and energies. It also lets our Exotic collection quickly be upgraded to the new cap, I'm pretty sure all of my Exotics will be 365 or 42 light on day 1. The grind will be however quickly Etheric Light will drop to level up Legendaries from Prison of Elder/Trials of Osiris/Nightfall. Also new gear confirmed for Prison of Elders and we've been given every indication that it will be pretty great. So far we know that it is horde mode like 3 player co-op late game activity (level 32 or above is likely, maybe tiers like 30, 32, and 34) and that it will supposedly change weekly like the Nightfall. Gothalion, the guy from the reveal, played it and has claimed that it will be take longer to complete than Crota's and is immensely satisfying for late game content. I'm still a little sad that I can't get my group of 6 together for it, but here's to hoping is every bit as great as we've been led to believe thus far.

@hestilllives19 I ran it with two people from the Okayplayer forums and some of their Raid group. Don't recall who else was in the group.

Also pretty bummed to feel we still can't do something like convert weapon parts to class-specific materials. I probably said it elsewhere but I only had a Titan running back when the Loot Cave was big, so I've got 1,000 weapon parts and plasteel plating but am constantly having to wait to upgrade my Hunter and Warlock stuff due to material crunch.

It's a bummer and I wish there were some alternative other than just hoping for a ton of armor engram drops, then grinding bounty XP on those items to increase their material payout rather than applying it to the stuff I actually want to upgrade.

Raids are okay. I'd rather play strikes.

@nodima: Ok, could have sworn you raided with us but I know your username somehow. Totally agree on the class specific parts, need lots of Plasteel Plating and Coils for my Hunter since I started later on those, have thousands of Hardronic Essence.

Well, deej teased the thing the are going to showcase after the prison of elders by saying ''raid like content''. Guest we'll have to see around may 12 or something.