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    Destiny

    Game » consists of 25 releases. Released Sep 09, 2014

    Shoot your way across the solar system to level up and collect new loot in this multiplayer-focused first-person shooter from Bungie and Activision.

    Level Cap Of 20?

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    EthanielRain

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    #1  Edited By EthanielRain

    One of the vendors requires certain tokens/marks, which are gained "by earning XP after reaching level 20". I also haven't seen any gear higher than level 20 in the game. Hopefully this is just the cap shown in this build? Because that seems really, really low...just the 3 missions in the alpha can get you to level 8 easily.

    Googling it, I saw a couple articles that talked about how hitting the level cap won't take long/is easy, but the game still continues on, with loot becoming the driving force. I'd rather keep leveling up for quite some time, personally. I like the dings :)

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    Quipido

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    @ethanielrain: I think it's impossible to know pre-release. I am sure the game is designed to keep player's attention and just comparing numbers to other games with no knowledge how the development curve works in the actual game is pointless.

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    Seppli

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    The more endgame content, the better. The lvl 20 cap isn't something I fret upon. Also - there's going to be loads of *subclasses*, as far as I understand - and unlocking stuff for the subclass is a seperate progression from levels. Also - weapons need to be leveled too, and it seems the higher quality a weapon is, the more there will be to unlock. I remember them saying that Legendary weapons have deep unique skill trees of their own.

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    EthanielRain

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    I forgot about ability unlocks not being tied to levelling up. Was thinking 20 levels = 20 points :O)

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    pweidman

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    Think of endgame as improving your character in a horizontal way versus the more traditional vertical way. The idea must surely revolve around the co-op emphasis in Destiny and avoiding the lvl difference problem when grouping up. I like lvling too, but making the endgame about picking your subclass and maxing that out along with the gear search sounds good. Each successive release in the series will probably have more lvls to add on.......who knows yet.

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    nasp

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    i usually dont like it when a level cap is really low,but if lv 20 is the cap for destiny i dont have a problem with that.i mean you got lvling guns and your armour.if you get a better one then you have to lvl that one again.considering there is a good amount of slots for different gear,that means there will be alot of stuff to lvl up since you will get more stuff all the time.so there is plenty of lvling up in the game,it just might not be the typical character lvling.

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    EthanielRain

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    #7  Edited By EthanielRain

    @nasp said:

    i usually dont like it when a level cap is really low,but if lv 20 is the cap for destiny i dont have a problem with that.i mean you got lvling guns and your armour.if you get a better one then you have to lvl that one again.considering there is a good amount of slots for different gear,that means there will be alot of stuff to lvl up since you will get more stuff all the time.so there is plenty of lvling up in the game,it just might not be the typical character lvling.

    Yeah...I'm not even sure what lvling does for your character in this game? Seems like abilities & gear are what matters.

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    nasp

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    @ethanielrain: ide say the lvling does the same thing that other games do,its just less of it.think of it like getting to the loot hunt faster.when you get to the lvl cap thats when the fun begins because now better loot isnt just because its a higher lvl its because it rolled better.so having a low lvl cap makes your endgame loot hunt start quicker,which is a good thing imo.especially since in these types of games when you start another character you have to go all the way back to the lvl cap to get to endgame.bungie seems to get that endgame farming is the best part of a mmo or loot game and so they are letting you get there quicker.

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    Sterling

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    Gaining a level opens a new ability tree. And you unlock the abilities in the tree by using it. If you noticed in the alpha, when you leveled up, from 3 to 4, it opened your special. You were able to use that. Then the next level opened the next subclass slot on the tree. And those level up down. And those down levels are by your use of them. So Level 20 is fine the way they have it setup. And as others said, you have to level up your gear also. So I think actually have a maxed out character will take way longer than the time it actually takes you to get to level 20.

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    deactivated-5cc8838532af0

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    I will point out that if you look at the vendor reputation circle it mentions that leveling it up will unlock better gear so we don't know for sure that's the highest leveled gear.

    I'd also point out it doesn't really matter. Personally endgame is the most important part of an online game like Destiny. The leveling up process is kind of just filler.

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    Sniper26

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    @irvandus: I agree with you and honestly like having a lower level cap and more end game content. However, I am a PC gamer who happens to have consoles, so I understand what end game content is. I just worry that having a low level cap non MMO experienced players will stop playing as they aren't seeing dings and are used to being rewarded with levels constantly eg Call of Duty. Hopefully I am wrong though!

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    SomeJerk

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    A level 33 player was seen in the E3 trailer game experience thingamajigger. Quite possibly something from a prestige-like function. Wish they'd drop a little more info about that on us.

    The final game has Earth, Moon, Mars, Venus and the Reef for planets (to land on) not counting Vanguard and Crucible so it would be weird to hard-lock at 20. We'll be planet-hopping by the looks of it

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    Jazz_Lafayette

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    Capping at 20 worked for the first Guild Wars (in fact it was one of the coolest things about the design), and structurally speaking Destiny seems similar to that game what with the populated hubs, small-scale cooperative PvE, and instanced story/PvP maps. I think it'd be safe to assume they don't want stat progression as the be-all-end-all of player ability in a game that plays like a Bungie shooter, and that character advancement will mostly center around skill unlocks, weapon modifiers, and other types of horizontal power variation.

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    EthanielRain

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    #14  Edited By EthanielRain

    @sterling said:

    Gaining a level opens a new ability tree. And you unlock the abilities in the tree by using it. If you noticed in the alpha, when you leveled up, from 3 to 4, it opened your special. You were able to use that. Then the next level opened the next subclass slot on the tree. And those level up down. And those down levels are by your use of them. So Level 20 is fine the way they have it setup. And as others said, you have to level up your gear also. So I think actually have a maxed out character will take way longer than the time it actually takes you to get to level 20.

    Yeah but I mean in terms of stats. Lvl'ing doesn't add HP or anything right? Just serves as a gate for abilities/items/areas? Kinda hard for me to tell, with no displayed numbers.

    And it seemed like abilities gained XP from killing rather than on use. I tried jumping for 5 minutes or so and didn't notice the next jump ability gain any XP, but it noticeably did after a Strike run-through.

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    ChrisHarris

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    #15  Edited By ChrisHarris

    The abilities all level up based on the same points (or whatever the system is called). They function like a traditional leveling system. You get 1, then 2, then 3, etc. The circles visualize how many total points you have gotten compared to how many you would need for each ability. It's just a different way of displaying your progress.

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    Sterling

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    @sterling said:

    Gaining a level opens a new ability tree. And you unlock the abilities in the tree by using it. If you noticed in the alpha, when you leveled up, from 3 to 4, it opened your special. You were able to use that. Then the next level opened the next subclass slot on the tree. And those level up down. And those down levels are by your use of them. So Level 20 is fine the way they have it setup. And as others said, you have to level up your gear also. So I think actually have a maxed out character will take way longer than the time it actually takes you to get to level 20.

    Yeah but I mean in terms of stats. Lvl'ing doesn't add HP or anything right? Just serves as a gate for abilities/items/areas? Kinda hard for me to tell, with no displayed numbers.

    And it seemed like abilities gained XP from killing rather than on use. I tried jumping for 5 minutes or so and didn't notice the next jump ability gain any XP, but it noticeably did after a Strike run-through.

    It seemed like the more I used my special and grenade the more xp they earned.

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    turboman

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    You also have crucible ranks and vanguard ranks to think about also.

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    Marz

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    it's not super heavy on RPG elements so i feel like it gives you enough customization with those amount of levels.

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    Franstone

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    Good chance that cap is only for the alpha/beta.

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    Crash_Happy

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    Karkarov

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    Uh .... no idea what the beta cap will be but let's just say I know for a fact the final games level cap will start at 20 and leave it at that. Who knows what will happen with expansions and dlc though. Also bear in mind they want this to become a new franchise and get like at least two sequels.

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    Junkboy

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    #22  Edited By Junkboy

    My buddy and I were discussing this and came to the conclusion that they might have more "sub classes" to further specialize each class. At the moment Titan's sub class is called Striker with a nice emphasis on beaten the daylights out of folks with dashing and sucker punching modifiers. If they decided to make a "Bastion" SC I could see it having defensive abilities like lowering headshot/crit dmg and making you slower but raising defense further.

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    SomeDeliCook

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    To be honest, I liked the quick levelling up in Crackdown and Brink, you could focus more on having fun than min maxing your XP

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    Karkarov

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    @junkboy0 said:

    My buddy and I were discussing this and came to the conclusion that they might have more "sub classes" to further specialize each class. At the moment Titan's sub class is called Striker with a nice emphasis on beaten the daylights out of folks with dashing and sucker punching modifiers. If they decided to make a "Bastion" SC I could see it having defensive abilities like lowering headshot/crit dmg and making you slower but raising defense further.

    Every class has at least two focuses you can swap out. Rumor is there are more though, I would not be surprised if it turned out to be at least 3-4 per class.

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    Niceanims

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    #26  Edited By Niceanims
    No Caption Provided

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    Karkarov

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    @itwongo said:
    No Caption Provided

    Doesn't mean anything. Like I said, DLC, expansions, sequels. The game (long term) will obviously not cap at 20, but strong evidence says the initial release will. When WoW launched Blizzard had already plotted it out to be able to go to something like level 90, they just capped it at 60.

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    Alucitary

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    Dragon Age Origin only had 20 levels and the progression felt better in that game than most. Traditional leveling up mechanics are kind of a farce anyways, loot is what really matters nowadays, and now that most developers seem to have mastered the difficulty curve in terms of gating progression I think leveling up will only really be used to protect you from destroying the experience for yourself.

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    MrMuscle

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    #29  Edited By MrMuscle

    There is some interesting info in this article about level cap and thoughts about it:

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/28/destiny-hands-on-bungie-xbox-playstationshared-world-shooter

    The social intent of the game cannot be overstated. Indeed, levelling up each character to max takes only a few hours – Bungie doesn't want you to start the game then realise you have weeks of grind to put in before you can play against friends on a higher level. "You level cap quickly, but once you're there the game is more about equipping the gear that lets you go deeper into the game," says Green. "There are more strikes, there are raids, there are higher levels of PvP if you equip better weapons and armour.

    "Equipping better abilities in Focus is a longer-tail process that takes some time. I think the game actually develops very naturally towards the level cap: players earn experience as they complete activities and kill things, and once they reach the point at which that stops, they've already moved on to the gear collection game, which is about doing activities and looking at what's available to them in the tower. It's similar to Diablo in that its about moving on to horizontal growth – trying new abilities, new builds, new weapons."

    Also they talk a little about the lock in feature that some of you noticed on the skill tree:

    As they rank up, players unlock new skills and better weapons, equipping the stuff they like the best as they go – a bit like a standard RPG skill tree. So can you just hot-swap constantly between different force paths and skills? "A lot of your choices are free swaps - you can experiment and try different things," says Green. "But there comes a point where you can say, 'okay, I'm really happy with these decisions so I'm going to lock them in' – and that gives you benefits: your stats may increase, you may become more powerful or level up a lot faster, or you can reconfigure in a different way.

    "We're trying to strike a balance between having no commitments and locking in people in a way that makes them not want to play anymore. With the Focus, for example, you'll see there are a lot of choices and you can switch those around and find something else that you may like more. You may be in a PvsP match and see a warlock using a different grenade than you and pairing that with a different passive ability, perhaps applying damage-over-time effects or health regeneration, and you may say, 'that looks really great I want to try that'.

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    SomeJerk

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    #30  Edited By SomeJerk

    Speaking of level cap, did you notice how like only two three people on the internet noticed the Light attribute on max-level items in the game?

    No Caption Provided

    20 is the maximum you can reach by pure leveling up raw. 33 or beyond is where equipment will take you (seen in a split second view of the E3 experience trailer). This is the stuff you need for going in deeper.

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    Junkboy

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    Thanks for all the great info guys, I'm not as diligent with my game research as I was when I was younger so it seems I missed a lot about them game prior to the Alpha. With the sub class info I'm hoping they allow you to carry two of the same sub class you I can have one pvp and pve. :p

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    DJJoeJoe

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    #32  Edited By DJJoeJoe

    I was hoping regardless of the cap that it would be slow, but it seems that won't be the case for the first 20 levels. I wonder how fast it will be to get levels of 'light', and it seems they come via turn ins with that vendor but also maybe on gear too? Interesting stuff, gearing for levels possibly :)

    Considering all you seem to get with levels is 'new' abilities unlocked and all the stats come puring from gear this isn't exactly that crazy, if anything the game could have had zero levels and just unlock abilities based on number of enemies kills or even go deeper and have a system like the new wolfy game where you do specific actions to unlock perks, silent takedown 20 dudes for a whatever whatever.

    I didn't play Halo 4 so it was a long time since I enjoyed the dynamics of a Bungie shooter, the way they do combat situations is so much fun for me and I missed it. The beta showed me that the fun I had in the past is in their formula still, plus it has some lovely mechanics from other games I love (the loot and it's reliance on co-op at a fairly core level) so the recipe they are making their game from is something I'm salivating over already. I look forward to having fun with my friends via this game, and I'm glad it's already as popular as it seems to be (almost 5mil folks checked out the dang beta) so that future content is vastly secured.

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    ll_Exile_ll

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    @djjoejoe said:

    I was hoping regardless of the cap that it would be slow, but it seems that won't be the case for the first 20 levels. I wonder how fast it will be to get levels of 'light', and it seems they come via turn ins with that vendor but also maybe on gear too? Interesting stuff, gearing for levels possibly :)

    Considering all you seem to get with levels is 'new' abilities unlocked and all the stats come puring from gear this isn't exactly that crazy, if anything the game could have had zero levels and just unlock abilities based on number of enemies kills or even go deeper and have a system like the new wolfy game where you do specific actions to unlock perks, silent takedown 20 dudes for a whatever whatever.

    I didn't play Halo 4 so it was a long time since I enjoyed the dynamics of a Bungie shooter, the way they do combat situations is so much fun for me and I missed it. The beta showed me that the fun I had in the past is in their formula still, plus it has some lovely mechanics from other games I love (the loot and it's reliance on co-op at a fairly core level) so the recipe they are making their game from is something I'm salivating over already. I look forward to having fun with my friends via this game, and I'm glad it's already as popular as it seems to be (almost 5mil folks checked out the dang beta) so that future content is vastly secured.

    Bungie didn't make Halo 4.

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    Franstone

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    #34  Edited By Franstone
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    ll_Exile_ll

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    This vid clearly states that leveling goes beyond 20.

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/30/destiny-the-endgame-is-only-the-beginning-ign-first?watch

    Exciting stuff!

    That's already been covered in this thread. The standard level cap earned by gaining experience is 20, but you can increase your level beyond that in other ways as part of the endgame content.

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    Zeik

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    It sounds like "Light" is functionally similar to item level in an MMO, where you have your hard level cap but upgrading yourself with end game gear effectively increases your level beyond that cap. It looks like it physically changes your displayed level in Destiny though.

    I assume it still functions like item level though, in that level 20 is the maximum level requirement for equipping any gear.

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    Nodima

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    #37  Edited By Nodima

    I'm totally comfortable with it, I barely unlocked some of the third/fourth tier stuff on my Level 8 Titan subclass and I had about 14 hours with the Beta. Throw in the other two subclasses that were gated by the Beta and that's a hell of a lot of XP grind/ability acquisition aside from the core character's level.

    The questions for me still revolve around exactly how many different missions are offered at each location.

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    syz

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    #38  Edited By syz

    Primary level doesn't seem as relevant in this game as subclass experience will be. Level 20 is just a thing that lets you equip whatever you want. Then your XP is going into leveling weapons, subclasses, armor, etc.

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    sumjugei

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    IGN's coverage talks about levels beyond 20, with video content also. Talks about level 22 and 25 content.

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/30/destiny-the-endgame-is-only-the-beginning-ign-first

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    DJJoeJoe

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    @ll_exile_ll: I'm aware of that, Halo 4 does however have the exact same combat model as the past Halo games... it's a Halo game. The combat is what I was talking about.

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