How frustrating is Pacifist?

#1 Posted by MajorMitch (544 posts) -

I'd like to get the pacifist achievement, but I will only play the game once and am curious if trying to get it would make the game significantly more frustrating and less fun. Does anyone who's tried it have any input on whether it is worth it or not? I'm not looking for tips (I've already read about tranquilizer guns kill, etc), but more about how much trying to get it affects the experience.

#2 Posted by AssInAss (2715 posts) -

I'm doing such a playthrough right now, up to end of police station (I convinced Wayne Haas to let me in). Haven't had too much problems. Just a lot of vents. And hacking. I don't even want to knock enemies out, just ghosting (although "Ghost +500" still counts if you're doing non-lethal attacks).

#3 Posted by Koshka (189 posts) -

It makes the game -significantly- harder. I didn't finish with it, but I got close. Early on I find the game to be more fun, but there are instances when you will fucking kick yourself

boss battles can be horrible later especially
#4 Edited by spazmaster666 (1978 posts) -

Not really, especially once you get the PEPS. Takedowns are often a more effective way to neutralize enemies than bullets since the shooting in the game isn't great. There are a few instances where I felt using a sniper rifle would have made things easier but those are few and far between. I also ended up having plenty of lethal weapons and ammo in my inventory anyway so boss battles weren't too much of an issue. The "Foxiest of the Hounds" achievement is a a lot more frustrating though if you're trying to get it along with Pacifist (i.e. you can't just headshot a guy with a silenced weapon). Just make sure you don't kill anyone during the tutorial or any robots since it counts.

On the plus side though, you get more experience for not killing guys so it can definitely help you gain upgrades faster.

@Koshka said:

It makes the game -significantly- harder. I didn't finish with it, but I got close. Early on I find the game to be more fun, but there are instances when you will fucking kick yourself

boss battles can be horrible later especially

I found I had plenty of room for both lethal and non-lethal weapons and ammo (I made sure to upgrade my inventory relatively early on) so it wasn't a big deal for me.

#5 Posted by ronin00 (28 posts) -

I typically play games on the normal difficulty. I decided to try Deus Ex on hard and go for the pacifist achievement. I really did not have any issues at all. Most areas have a way to bypass any combat by hacking a door, disabling cameras, going through a vent, etc. There were a couple areas that could have been frustrating, but by then I had my stealth enhancement so I could just bypass them that way.

I hardly used the tranquilizer rifle or the stun gun. The double take-down enhancement will be your friend.

The boss battles can be a pain, but there is normally a weapon cache right next to the boss. Also even on hard there is an easy way to kill the 3 bosses in about a minute.

#6 Posted by Liquidus (946 posts) -

It's not that hard, I pretty much did a Pacifist run on my first playthrough because that's how I played Deus Ex 1. If it wasn't for killing some of the mercs in the very beginning, I probably would have gotten it. Just stick to stun gun and tranq rifle and keep the 10mm pistol around for boss fights.

#7 Posted by eroticfishcake (7787 posts) -

Since the game is really geared more towards stealth, it's not too bad. Considering how your first battery cell always recharges you've always got enough power to perform a take-down (non-lethal earns more XP, so use that). Furthermore, the stun gun and tranquiliser gun will be your best friend sthough I found myself using the stun gun/take-down combination a lot more. There's also a PEPS Gun, which isn't bad for small groups.  
 
Very important point though
, I found that the stun gun and tranquiliser gun can actually kill guys instead. It's more likely to happen when they're idle, i.e. Sitting down or leaning against a wall. I think it's a bug but regardless, you should always check their bodies to see if they're dead or not. Personally, do what I do. Throw objects at certain points to draw guys out and use non-take-downs to guarantee a knock out, plus you get more XP for it anyway.

#8 Edited by spazmaster666 (1978 posts) -

@eroticfishcake said:

Very important point though, I found that the stun gun and tranquiliser gun can actually kill guys instead. It's more likely to happen when they're idle, i.e. Sitting down or leaning against a wall. I think it's a bug but regardless, you should always check their bodies to see if they're dead or not. Personally, do what I do. Throw objects at certain points to draw guys out and use non-take-downs to guarantee a knock out, plus you get more XP for it anyway.

Headshots from the tranq gun definitely kill, though I haven't had an issue with the stun gun (I suppose if you managed a headshot with the stun gun it would kill as well). Of course if you drop an unconscious body down a manhole or into any environmental hazard, etc that can kill them as well.

#9 Posted by Vorbis (2750 posts) -

It's actually easier to be a pacifist because killing people is very noisy. Most of the time I knock people out, drag them into a corner, then execute them.

#10 Posted by Ktargo (100 posts) -

As others have said, it's actually not that difficult. Just grab augmentations that allow you to take alternate pathways (punch through walls, better hacking, no fall damage, lift heavy objects, higher jumping, etc) and keep an eye out for vents, ladders, and whatnot that avoid enemies. If you have to engage people, the stun gun works wonders. Even without the double takedown aug, you can usually just stun one guy and quickly do a non-lethal takedown on another. Carry a bunch of grenades too, they are useful in a pinch (outside of frags for all but bosses). The only lethal weapon I carried for the majority of the game was a 10mm pistol to conserve inventory space, it actually works rather well on bosses as long as you upgrade it, especially with the armor piercing rounds upgrade.

Honestly the game might even be easier doing pacifist than actually trying to shoot your way through it. You just won't get to see any arm-blades.

#11 Posted by Tennmuerti (8172 posts) -

Only go for it if you actually enjoy playing the game that way. Not just for the achievement.

I did it on the first play-through and never found it frustrating, but that was because that's how I wanted to play the game in the first place.

#12 Posted by Ventilaator (1501 posts) -

I'm playing that game as I normally would, and I killed a few soldiers in the intro level and then I killed a dude who I ran into on a side mission who was completely in the wrong and deserved no better fate. Also killed the only boss I've seen so far because you need to.
 
Other than that, I've been completely non-lethal so far.

#13 Posted by Taka (202 posts) -

I personally found the playing experience in getting that achievement very enjoyable. (even though i didnt get it due to the prologe)

If youre not knocking out every guy for exp min-maxing, the tension is pretty exciting

The "Pacifist Way" of playing Deus Ex 3 also lets you see way more alternate paths and ways to get around the environment without using the direct frontal assault

#14 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -
 Not in 'Nam of course
#15 Edited by SnakeSDR (64 posts) -

Pacifist was not frustrating for me (it's pretty easy to avoid killing really, but only if you play stealthily) and neither was Foxiest of Hounds. However, that said, I actually enjoy the process of doing an entire level 'perfectly' and reloading saves constantly to do so, it does not bother me. It depends on your patience really.

On another note, I did not have anybody die from a tranquiliser shot, even from a headshot, but I have definitely heard of this happening to others (some PSN friends of mine included). I did have one incident where in a tense firefight, I knocked out a whole bunch of dudes with my stun gun while cloaked and then a mech appeared. I used an emp grenade on the mech and it was disabled, which caused it to initiate a self destruct, which happened to kill an unconscious soldier nearby. I can't confirm whether or not this indirect kill would have had an effect on the trophy, but I wasn't going to risk it. So watch out for the self destruct on the robots if you go to disable them, and also be careful of stunning guards near electrified water, I did that once and it did not end well for him.

P.S. As others have said HACKING, it's the bomb. I also invested in abilities like wall punching and the high jump, as well as dumping a bunch of points into cloaking and moving silently (silently sprinting while cloaked is rad).

#16 Posted by AFenders (14 posts) -

I can see how it's possible, but once through a game is enough for me

#17 Edited by CraigAA1028 (546 posts) -

I played through the game on hard, without killing anyone, and without setting off alarms. It really wasn't a problem. However, this was my second play through so I knew what was coming. Also had to load a save sometimes to correct a mistake. But overall, it was still an enjoyable experience. 
 
THough boss fights still sucked. Well, the first one did. There are cheat strategies on GB's YouTube page that help alot.

#18 Posted by Nux (2405 posts) -

I think it makes the game kinda easy. You don't blow though ammo like crazy and it can be kinda fun, I do however really want to kill dudes, I just starded the final level and after seening what happened it was kinda hard for me to not just start killing everyone. That part was hard.

#19 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

I'm over halfway done, and I'm pretty sure I haven't killed anybody yet. But that's the problem. I'm only pretty sure. I sometimes like to kill dudes when I'm about to reload a previous save anyway, so there's a slight possibility that i killed a dude, then forgot to reload altogether.  
 
But I guess since people seem to agree that it's not that hard anyway, it's no big deal if I keep going for the Pacifist achievement, just to see if I actually get it.

#20 Posted by AlexW00d (6389 posts) -

@Koshka said:

It makes the game -significantly- harder. I didn't finish with it, but I got close. Early on I find the game to be more fun, but there are instances when you will fucking kick yourself

boss battles can be horrible later especially

Apart from they don't count towards the achievement anyway...

#21 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5152 posts) -

It's not too bad, im about half way ans still haven't lost my mind.

#22 Edited by OtakuGamer (1283 posts) -

It can be frustrating at times, especially when you’re in a massive open area but it's not as hard as you think.

The part that pisses me off is that I can’t track my stats. So I won’t know until at the end.

Online
#23 Posted by DocHaus (1359 posts) -

Wait, the mercs at the beginning and the robots count against your pacifism? Fuuuuuuuuuck.

#24 Posted by FacestabMan (75 posts) -

I finished it on pacifist in my first playthrough, give me deus ex mode and doing some saving. 

It's not that hard. Foxiest of the hounds though, that's a real tough one, because it's hard to know which alerts count.

Now I'm looking in a different direction, I see myself free from pacifism and next time I play I'm going to be a mass murderer I swear to god. Not without reward, I'm going to explore through the whole game.

#25 Edited by eroticfishcake (7787 posts) -
@DocHaus: Robots don't count since they explode after you EMP anyway. But robots exploding AND taking out any nearby guards will null the achievement. So make sure there isn't anybody nearby when you EMP/Rocket them. 
 
@FacestabMan: Yeah the Foxiest of the Hounds is a toughie. I got the Pacifist one but not this one even though I'm pretty sure I didn't trigger alarms. As far as I know, it has to be an actual alarm. Guys/robots seeing you and going hostile doesn't count. It's only when cameras and dudes setting off alarms (or setting off lasers) count. There are some parts in the game in which the alarm goes off in scripted manner too. I'm not sure but it's worth deactivating these just in case. Furthermore; 
Speaking of Deus Ex. Here's one way of playing; 
  
#26 Posted by SSully (4276 posts) -

@eroticfishcake: Oh my god that video had me laughing way harder then it should have!

#27 Posted by MeierTheRed (4941 posts) -

I still don't understand why people go out of their way to play in a way that doesn't come natural to them just to get a fucking Achievement. If its not fun don't do it, surely that point isn't worth all the time spent on it, if its not enjoyed.

#28 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -
achievement
n
1. something that has been accomplished, esp by hard work, ability, or heroism
#29 Posted by Tennmuerti (8172 posts) -

@eroticfishcake: Scripted alarms don't count against Foxiest of Hounds. And I'm not sure there is any other way to the end of Omega Ranch other then causing a distraction, considering that the door cannot be interacted with before that and there are no hidden pathways to it that I could find. Anyway you can do that sequence it's not gonna count against Foxiest of Hounds, since I did and still got it.

#30 Posted by eroticfishcake (7787 posts) -
@Tennmuerti: Yeah I know about that. It's still super confusing though. Some people say that resetting the alarms on the scripted sequence will fix the problem. Again, I'm not entirely sure. I got the Pacifist achievement though so it should be easier when I'm going to start my second run. Besides, I missed a few other quests and I combed through that game like a motherfucker.
#31 Posted by TwilitEnd656 (617 posts) -

Not very. I just didn't get it in my first playthrough because I screwed myself in the tutorial. =P I was surprised, because I got Foxiest of the Hounds instead; I was entirely expecting to go through the game with no kills, but with an alarm or two. Funny how that worked out.

#32 Posted by Strife777 (1611 posts) -

For me, I would've done it, but I only noticed it after I killed a guy or two. At that point I just thought it might be better that way, because now I can actually use the different guns. I'm still playing stealth, but I vary the weapons I use.

I might play it a second time on the hardest difficulty and try to get that achievement.

#33 Edited by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

@Koshka said:

It makes the game -significantly- harder. I didn't finish with it, but I got close. Early on I find the game to be more fun, but there are instances when you will fucking kick yourself

boss battles can be horrible later especially

I had the opposite experience. I though it made the game really easy. I got Pacifist and Foxiest of Hounds in the same playthrough. I can see how it might be harder if you got spotted all the time, though.

As for boss battles, they're either hard or easy depending on if you can figure out what gimmick to use. I found the stun gun + EMP grenade combo was enough to take down all but the last "boss" without getting damaged.

I think it makes the game kinda easy. You don't blow though ammo like crazy and it can be kinda fun, I do however really want to kill dudes, I just starded the final level and after seening what happened it was kinda hard for me to not just start killing everyone. That part was hard.

@Nux said:

I think it makes the game kinda easy. You don't blow though ammo like crazy and it can be kinda fun, I do however really want to kill dudes, I just starded the final level and after seening what happened it was kinda hard for me to not just start killing everyone. That part was hard.

Resisting the urge to just ice EVERYONE in the last level was the hardest part of the game for me. I'm eagerly awaiting playing through that part in "murder-everything" mode.

#34 Posted by Tennmuerti (8172 posts) -

@Ravenlight said:

@Nux said:
I think it makes the game kinda easy. You don't blow though ammo like crazy and it can be kinda fun, I do however really want to kill dudes, I just starded the final level and after seening what happened it was kinda hard for me to not just start killing everyone. That part was hard.

Resisting the urge to just ice EVERYONE in the last level was the hardest part of the game for me. I'm eagerly awaiting playing through that part in "murder-everything" mode.

Felt exactly the same. It was so hard to not just waste all those fuckers. The game seems to be deliberately tempting you.

#35 Posted by Gargantuan (1887 posts) -
@Tennmuerti said:

@Ravenlight said:

@Nux said:
I think it makes the game kinda easy. You don't blow though ammo like crazy and it can be kinda fun, I do however really want to kill dudes, I just starded the final level and after seening what happened it was kinda hard for me to not just start killing everyone. That part was hard.

Resisting the urge to just ice EVERYONE in the last level was the hardest part of the game for me. I'm eagerly awaiting playing through that part in "murder-everything" mode.

Felt exactly the same. It was so hard to not just waste all those fuckers. The game seems to be deliberately tempting you.

Maxed out lungs, faster sprint and higher jumps make the last level very easy.
#36 Posted by Tennmuerti (8172 posts) -

@Gargantuan said:

@Tennmuerti said:

@Ravenlight said:

@Nux said:
I think it makes the game kinda easy. You don't blow though ammo like crazy and it can be kinda fun, I do however really want to kill dudes, I just starded the final level and after seening what happened it was kinda hard for me to not just start killing everyone. That part was hard.

Resisting the urge to just ice EVERYONE in the last level was the hardest part of the game for me. I'm eagerly awaiting playing through that part in "murder-everything" mode.

Felt exactly the same. It was so hard to not just waste all those fuckers. The game seems to be deliberately tempting you.

Maxed out lungs, faster sprint and higher jumps make the last level very easy.

I had maxed out almost everything (see here) but it was still hella tempting to just mow em down instead of spending energy :P

#37 Posted by GentlemanlyGentleman (320 posts) -

It quite easy, the only part that could get annoying is enemies randomly dieing. From what I can tell it's to do with their spawning, not headshotting with the tranq gun. I got many head shots and none of them died, except for those that spawned with them sitting or leaning on something.
 
I found this kind of play through damn fun, I done it along with Foxiest of the Hounds too. Mind you, I find no kill and no alarm runs fun in Splinter Cell and Metal Gear, so I might be in the minority with this opinion.

#38 Posted by OtakuGamer (1283 posts) -

It's pretty simple to do. However, you’re going to have this feeling throughout the entire game. Did I accidently kill someone? Does an accidental explosion void the achievement? Does it count if the target falls after being tranquilized?

I had the following items:

  • Tranquilizer gun (Long – Med Range Only)
  • A stun gun. (Close Range)
  • A fully upgraded shotgun. (Boss Battles)
  • A decent supply of EMP, stun and gas grenades. (These will be your best friends later on.)
  • A decent supply of health and stamina items.

Argumentations should be obvious. I mainly focused on upgrades that can bypass certain obstacles such as heavy objects and hacking, basic argumentations such as increased inventory space and battery life. Later on in the game you may want to focus more on stealth argumentations and advanced hacking.

Other than that you need to save often, multiple saves just in case.

Online
#39 Posted by Vinny_Says (5721 posts) -

I got Pacifist and Foxiest of Hounds on my initial normal playthrough, it was extremely easy since I didn't think I would get it.

Deus Ex difficulty was even easier because I knew where everything was. Finished it in one playthrough.

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