Demon Hunter hotfixes

#1 Posted by uniform (1836 posts) -
  • Smoke Screen
    Duration reduced from 2 seconds to 1 second (tooltip will still show 2 seconds)
  • Skill Rune - Lingering Fog
    Now increases the duration of Smoke Screen to 1.5 seconds (tooltip will still show 3 seconds)

There seems to be a lot of sky is falling mentality going on in the DH community. While I'm just getting ready for Inferno, and I don't really understand fully how bad this is, I can't help but feel like this might be getting a little blown out of proportion. I do know the skill+rune was definitely trivializing content and needed to be toned down. I'm actually looking forward to seeing how bad this makes things in Inferno: Act II. If it's unplayable, oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Just looking for some feedback from some GB DHs that have played Inferno, and or experienced the nerfs. Went with another build, tried a different class? I've read the official DH community's reaction, and it's typical "my life is over" BS I remember from the WoW forums.

#2 Posted by Zirilius (665 posts) -

Thought the hotfixes weren't being implemented until tomorrow?

I'll continue to use my DH though, guess I'll continue to use Vault to get everywhere I need.

#3 Posted by FateOfNever (1848 posts) -

Glad to see people still drastically overreacting to changes in a video game that aren't actually that big of a deal.

As for everything beyond you talking about how other people are flipping their shit about this, sadly, I have no input. Don't have a demon hunter in inferno or anything, so, can't give any advice other than "my advice is to keep up the good attitude and learn to adapt as need be to changes that get made."

#4 Posted by MasturbatingestBear (1192 posts) -

@FateOfNever said:

Glad to see people still drastically overreacting to changes in a video game that aren't actually that big of a deal.

As for everything beyond you talking about how other people are flipping their shit about this, sadly, I have no input. Don't have a demon hunter in inferno or anything, so, can't give any advice other than "my advice is to keep up the good attitude and learn to adapt as need be to changes that get made."

Decreasing smoke screen like that truly is terrible. Demon Hunters are insanely squishy in the end game. I have been saying this around these boards for a while now, I literally believe they are the hardest end game class. I only have to fight the end boss to get to inferno and the last act is incredibly difficult. Smokescreen is the basis of a Demon Hunter's abilities. The temporary invincibility gives him time to get away to a safe distance at a point where the thank has lost aggro.

This truly is a terrible hotfix.

#5 Posted by FateOfNever (1848 posts) -

@MasturbatingestBear said:

@FateOfNever said:

Glad to see people still drastically overreacting to changes in a video game that aren't actually that big of a deal.

As for everything beyond you talking about how other people are flipping their shit about this, sadly, I have no input. Don't have a demon hunter in inferno or anything, so, can't give any advice other than "my advice is to keep up the good attitude and learn to adapt as need be to changes that get made."

Decreasing smoke screen like that truly is terrible. Demon Hunters are insanely squishy in the end game. I have been saying this around these boards for a while now, I literally believe they are the hardest end game class. I only have to fight the end boss to get to inferno and the last act is incredibly difficult. Smokescreen is the basis of a Demon Hunter's abilities. The temporary invincibility gives him time to get away to a safe distance at a point where the thank has lost aggro.

This truly is a terrible hotfix.

The fact that it was such an absolutely mandatory skill though says to me that it needed to be changed. If Demon Hunters are completely unplayable on nightmare or hell with smoke screen being 1-1.5 seconds instead of 2-3, then their survivability should probably be altered as well. But 3 seconds of complete invincibility seems/sounds crazy and really seems like a "well duh, of course they changed it." Just like "duh, of course they changed the mage armor to not allow them to be near invincible in inferno."

Either DHs will learn to adapt and use it as is (or not at all), the numbers will get adjusted again (but not to 2-3 seconds), or DHs will get some sort of base increase to make them generally less squishy. I suggest trying to adapt to not having to rely solely on one single ability at crazy values to play the class though and if you find it completely impossible then leave them feedback in a calm, intelligent, and well written manner that explains the problem as a whole.

At the same time though, regardless of how bad it might be, it is still just a video game. A game that will constantly be in flux of having updates to classes and skills and monsters and gear and so on. So it very well might suck, but if you're completely unwilling to try it as is or try something else in its place to play the game or think outside the box, or to wait it out until they make adjustments to make up for it, then you're probably better off just walking away from the game's high end play completely.

#6 Edited by MasturbatingestBear (1192 posts) -

@FateOfNever: Yeah for sure. I'm not attacking Blizzard or anything about this fix. I'm just trying to point out that, currently, this is a big deal to end game Demon Hunters. Hopefully they do buff their base armor and health a little.

#7 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@MasturbatingestBear: Try playing a monk or barb inferno. Then we'll talk. You have it easy buddy.

#8 Posted by MasturbatingestBear (1192 posts) -

@Canteu: I will fight you right now. My group is me and a Monk and a Barb and they keep telling me how easy it is!

#9 Posted by solidlife (882 posts) -

They need to make vault instant when you press it playing with vault above 250 ms is shocking.

#10 Posted by Icemo (644 posts) -

Well in act II inferno you have far better chances of killing enemies with ranged character since you don't have to get to enemies attack range to do damage to them, while melee classes will get fucked up. And buffing DH's base armor and health won't do any difference since monks and barbarians get killed with one shot even if they have 40k health and over 5000 armor rating.

I'm playing as a monk right now and looks like my only hope is to grind act I inferno for couple of months to get some insane gear to somehow manage to survive in act 2. Then I get to act 3 and realize that my "insane" gear won't help me there at all...

#11 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@MasturbatingestBear: Trust me. You don't have to be near the enemies to hurt them. I have to be getting punched in the face just so I can build spirit, just so I can make myself not die from being punched in said face.

My group is also Monk (me), Barb, Demon Hunter. And us melee have it rough.

#12 Edited by Tennmuerti (8135 posts) -

@Canteu said:

@MasturbatingestBear: Trust me. You don't have to be near the enemies to hurt them. I have to be getting punched in the face just so I can build spirit, just so I can make myself not die from being punched in said face.

My group is also Monk (me), Barb, Demon Hunter. And us melee have it rough.

Are there any tips on gearing to survive Act2+ inferno as melee.

I just got to inferno on my Dual Wield monk and keep hearing tales of people getting 1 shot by elites past the first act on inferno making melee unplayable.

I got some money saved up and it's time to start gearing up. I just don't know what to shoot for, I already got almost 40k health from my Hell gear along with 50% dodge and 50% armor, but even in Act4 hell i felt squishy, my only deficit is resistances, so do you just start buying up resist all gear or have people founf a single resist easier to stack and then replace one passive with One with everything and roll with a shield?

So unsure how to start tackling this.

So these tales of monks and barbs having a peachy time in Inferno is interesting, especially if it's past the first act.

#13 Edited by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Tennmuerti: All i've come up with since they fixed the monk is stacking dodge. That's the only viable way I can survive.

Use a shield. The 15% dodge simply is not worth not having a shield for. From what I can tell dodge recieves diminishing returns at 50%, which you can easily reach with 1k dex and the dodge aura up. Although i use whatever the teleport punch with the 20% dodge, and the 16% rune off fist of thunder. I'm at about 65% dodge during a fight, 71% with everything up but thats for roughly 3 seconds and i can't get enough spirit to sustain it.

If it's desecrator, fire chains, frozen, knocback, vortex or arcane, my 60% off resistances and 65% off armour isn't even enough. They really need to do something.

That 30% less damage on Barbs and Monks is nothing compared to the 100% less damage of the demon hunters and wizards.

#14 Edited by jakob187 (21690 posts) -

@MasturbatingestBear said:

Decreasing smoke screen like that truly is terrible. Demon Hunters are insanely squishy in the end game.

That is true...and yet there are plenty of videos of DHs with only 400 vitality stomping through Inferno like it's no problem.

Meanwhile, I as a Barbarian am having to struggle with Inferno while Monks, DHs, and Wizards can just hand-feed Inferno its own ass on a silver platter. I'm not just talking about elite mobs here. I'm talking about everyday fucking skeletons, basic mobs that are nailing us for 10k and we have to just hope that everything turns out alright. I think I've got a decent build, but it's not uncommon for me to die at least 10 times in one fucking hallway trying to get a couple of inches further.

@Tennmuerti: Stack up one particular resistance (I would go with Fire), put on One with Everything passive skill, get as much armor and vitality as possible along with your Dex...ROFL at Inferno. Seriously, Monks are the most broken goddamn thing in the game.

#15 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@jakob187: Tell me this magic secret of monks stomping through inferno. As i believe that is all gone now since they fixed the bugged exploit build that made it possible.

#16 Posted by Tennmuerti (8135 posts) -

@Canteu said:

@Tennmuerti: All i've come up with since they fixed the monk is stacking dodge. That's the only viable way I can survive.

If it's desecrator, fire chains, frozen, knocback, vortex or arcane, my 60% off resistances and 65% off armour isn't even enough.

eeeesh if you are getting creamed with those stats i'm really discouraged now :(

#17 Posted by buft (3320 posts) -

I think the major problem with that skill was the ability to be abused, 3 second ability with a 3 second cool down,rinse and repeat pop preparation runed to give back all your discipline and you could fight anything and be invincible while doing it. the fix is temporary they mentioned a re-balance of all classes in a patch soon

#18 Posted by destruktive (1069 posts) -

Inferno is fuck hard without the smoke screen. I'm getting killed all the damn time now :(

#19 Posted by Tennmuerti (8135 posts) -

@Canteu: Any important stats to look out for in a shield (apart from dex/vit)? Sorry i just never used a shield up till now so have no idea :P

Is block % even important seeing as how a sield only blocks around 2k?

#20 Posted by Tennmuerti (8135 posts) -

@buft said:

I think the major problem with that skill was the ability to be abused, 3 second ability with a 3 second cool down,rinse and repeat pop preparation runed to give back all your discipline and you could fight anything and be invincible while doing it. the fix is temporary they mentioned a re-balance of all classes in a patch soon

Hmm, seems like a good time to level other classes or get Dragons Dogma while waiting for a class rebalance patch.

Inferno doesn't sound appealing atm.

#21 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Experimenting with 'Shadow Power & Gloom Rune' - that's 3 seconds of 20% of all damage dealt returned as heals, and -65% incoming damage from Gloom rune. In Act I Inferno - without further adjustments, it's good enough for me to go toe to toe for 3 seconds with most elites and get some proper DPS-time.

Didn't try this loadout yet in Act II, though I'm sure I'll have to swap in the 'Numbing Traps' passive skill (enemies deal -25% dmg for 3 seconds after getting hit by a trap) for a total of 90% damage reduction & armor/resi mitigation, to make it viable with current damage levels in Inferno past Act I.

That solves the DPS time problem, if it does work - downside, I'll have to give up on 'Vault' in favor of 'Smoke Screen', because I'll need its 'get out of unfair bullshit' utility no matter what.

The build I'll be testing on Act II tomorrow.

#22 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

@buft said:

I think the major problem with that skill was the ability to be abused, 3 second ability with a 3 second cool down,rinse and repeat pop preparation runed to give back all your discipline and you could fight anything and be invincible while doing it. the fix is temporary they mentioned a re-balance of all classes in a patch soon

Hmm, seems like a good time to level other classes or get Dragons Dogma while waiting for a class rebalance patch.

Inferno doesn't sound appealing atm.

Had the exact same thought today, but I've decided to first farm gold and upgrade all my crafters (already have the stash), before I move on - so I won't have that BS hanging over my head anymore, when I come back to it. Carefree spending in the AH all the way.

Dragon's Dogma does look mighty appealing though right now. Everytime I check out Act II after beating the Butcher, I'm just coming away pissed off and frustrated. Halfway ready to throw the towel.

@destruktive said:

Inferno is fuck hard without the smoke screen. I'm getting killed all the damn time now :(

You still have its basic utility - it still serves for getting out of a pickle. We just can't stand there and DPS completely risk free for 3 seconds anymore. It was stupid overpower before. Faceroll mode activated. Too bad Inferno hasn't been balanced to be any fun without a faceroll exploit... yet?

The current iteration of Smoke Screen feels right, kinda like an active block. RIP imba.

Gloom Shadow Power & Numbing Traps Passive could do the trick in regards for getting good DPS time. Works in Act I for the most parts.

#23 Posted by TheHT (11506 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@destruktive said:

Inferno is fuck hard without the smoke screen. I'm getting killed all the damn time now :(

You still have its basic utility - it still serves for getting out of a pickle. We just can't stand there and DPS completely risk free for 3 seconds anymore. It was stupid overpower before. Faceroll mode activated. Too bad Inferno hasn't been balanced to be any fun without a faceroll exploit... yet?

Holy shit, that's what smoke screen could be used for? I gave it one look at it and assumed it was just an escape skill where you couldn't attack but became invulnerable for a few seconds.

#24 Posted by KoolAid (972 posts) -

Inferno? I haven't even gotten to act 3 yet!

#25 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

@Tennmuerti: block % isnt really important. You're taking it for the armour and stats. Stack resistances.

I fixed my build. It's not dodge centric anymore and it works perfectly. I am no longer a sad panda.

#26 Edited by buft (3320 posts) -

@Canteu said:

@Tennmuerti: block % isnt really important. You're taking it for the armour and stats. Stack resistances.

I fixed my build. It's not dodge centric anymore and it works perfectly. I am no longer a sad panda.

Block is huge in mitagation, the block value is subtracted after armor and resistances, so take a physical hit for 8k mitigated by armor to 4k and minu2 1200 20% of the time is a hit for 2.8k, thats huge in big fights.

edit :values are pulled out of my ass but i read on the blizz forums thats how it works.

#27 Posted by jayhall (41 posts) -

@solidlife said:

They need to make vault instant when you press it playing with vault above 250 ms is shocking.

So true. I hate it

#28 Posted by valrog (3671 posts) -

I don't get it, why don't they adjust the tooltips accordingly? What the hell?

#29 Posted by Bane (427 posts) -

@valrog: The tooltips have been revised since this topic was made.

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