Diablo 3 Developers React Angrily to Dave Brevik Interview

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#101 Posted by BionicRadd (617 posts) -

"I am also a little happy, which I hate to say, it shows that the people that were involved in Diablo really did matter, and so I am happy that it has come to light that how talented that group was and how unique and special that group was. I am hoping that, as this happens very often in the industry, you see it with Call of Duty and things like that , when the people leave the game changes and it shows how critical people are in this industry."

Make no mistake, that was the political way of saying "my team made a way better game than your team did", which is something I do not entirely agree with, by the way. To me, Diablo 3 is a fine game. I played through it, beat it and at some point, I will go back again, just like I always do with Diablo games. Then again, most of the stuff they got rid of from Diablo 2 annoyed the piss out of me, so I guess I am in the minority.

#102 Posted by Bellum (2944 posts) -

Haven't played Diablo 3, but I remember thinking Diablo 2 was a step down from from Diablo in terms of atmosphere. Maybe the gameplay was better. I don't know. I was too busy breaking my mouse to pieces in Diablo to take the time and figure out if I was actually having fun or not.

Anyway, I really got no respect for someone who reacts that way to criticism, no matter if it was meant to be a public statement or not. At the same time, it isn't my business one way or the other. Blizzard is not the company it once was. The days of Warcraft 2 and Starcraft are long gone. But they still do some decent work.

#103 Edited by Addfwyn (1917 posts) -

While I agree that the blizzard team could have been perhaps more tactful in their response (I likely think that they weren't aware that the guy's FB account did not have friends only privacy settings, which most everyone does indeed have these days) the actual content of what they said is pretty spot on.

They have an ex team member whose legacy since leaving Blizzard consists of either COLOSSAL failure or products that never actually make it to market shitting on the fastest selling PC game of all time, which they spent several years of their life working on. It's understandable to think the guy is full of crap because well...he is. The only thing that shocks me about this story is the fact that anyone listens to anything Brevik has to say anymore.

So in the end, they were right. They were blunt, but you know what...I'm okay with that as long as you're actually in the right. A little bluntness is almost refreshing sometimes, especially as they were using personal FB accounts and not an official Blizz account. Though it'd have been somewhat gloriously scathing if Wilson went with "We appreciate Brevik's opinions and wish that he continues to enjoy the same level of success he has enjoyed since leaving Blizzard".

#104 Posted by ProfessorEss (7281 posts) -

@BionicRadd said:

"I am also a little happy, which I hate to say, it shows that the people that were involved in Diablo really did matter, and so I am happy that it has come to light that how talented that group was and how unique and special that group was. I am hoping that, as this happens very often in the industry, you see it with Call of Duty and things like that , when the people leave the game changes and it shows how critical people are in this industry."

Sounds like straight up sour grapes to me. And what is he using to back up his claim that the old team was so important? Is he really saying that internet rage has proven that Diablo III is a terrible game?

#105 Posted by BionicRadd (617 posts) -

Ok, so I had sort of forgotten who Brevik was, but let me get this straight, the guy responsible for Hellgate London is criticizing people for game design choices? Seriously? Is he mad Diablo 3 didn't have more gray textures?

#106 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

@BionicRadd said:

Ok, so I had sort of forgotten who Brevik was, but let me get this straight, the guy responsible for Hellgate London is criticizing people for game design choices? Seriously? Is he mad Diablo 3 didn't have more gray textures?

He's also responsible for Diablo 1 and 2.

Y'know.

The good ones.

I'd treat his expertise on the franchise he created a bit better than those who ruined the franchise with a goddamn RMAH.

And no, metacritic ratings don't factor into this. Dragon Age 2 got somewhere in the 80s, and that was a horrific game. Same with Mass Effect 3.

Y'know, I'm starting to detect a pattern there.

#107 Posted by ShadowConqueror (3050 posts) -

Everything about this upsets me.

#108 Posted by makari (594 posts) -

@Terramagi said:

@BionicRadd said:

Ok, so I had sort of forgotten who Brevik was, but let me get this straight, the guy responsible for Hellgate London is criticizing people for game design choices? Seriously? Is he mad Diablo 3 didn't have more gray textures?

He's also responsible for Diablo 1 and 2.

Y'know.

The good ones.

I'd treat his expertise on the franchise he created a bit better than those who ruined the franchise with a goddamn RMAH.

And no, metacritic ratings don't factor into this. Dragon Age 2 got somewhere in the 80s, and that was a horrific game. Same with Mass Effect 3.

Y'know, I'm starting to detect a pattern there.

#109 Posted by BionicRadd (617 posts) -

@Terramagi said:

@BionicRadd said:

Ok, so I had sort of forgotten who Brevik was, but let me get this straight, the guy responsible for Hellgate London is criticizing people for game design choices? Seriously? Is he mad Diablo 3 didn't have more gray textures?

He's also responsible for Diablo 1 and 2.

Y'know.

The good ones.

I'd treat his expertise on the franchise he created a bit better than those who ruined the franchise with a goddamn RMAH.

And no, metacritic ratings don't factor into this. Dragon Age 2 got somewhere in the 80s, and that was a horrific game. Same with Mass Effect 3.

Y'know, I'm starting to detect a pattern there.

He's one of the people responsible for Diablo 2. Clearly, he is not the only one and based on his performance since, he should probably thank everyone else on the D2 teams for helping to make him look so great. Diablo 3 is a fine game and no, it's not a reskinned Diablo 2 like the vocal minority on the internet wanted so badly. The fact that they tried some new things is what I liked about D3. I liked it. Not some site on the internet and not some acclaimed critic. My opinion is my own and I do not share the rose tinted view of Diablo 2 that so many of the fanboys do. It was an amazing game for it's time, but times change.

As for the RMAH ruining Diablo 3, seriously give me a damn break. I do wish Blizzard hadn't added it until the game had been out for a few months, though. That way, people would not have had a crutch to fall back on (and then complain about) when they started getting their asses whipped in Inferno. People that play Diablo 3 for 30, 40 or 100 hours and then go on the internet complaining about how dull the game is just amaze me. Not saying that's you, but I've seen folks talk about sinking 100 hours into D3 and then shitting all over it.

Diablo 3 is a new game from a different team set in the Diablo universe. If you want Diablo 2, go play Diablo 2. Or Titan Quest. Or Torchlight. Or any number of other games that used D2 as a blueprint for their game. I will stick to Diablo 3. I never had "fun" assigning health points and filling my bag with Runes. It all seemed like tedious crap I had to deal with to get to the fun, which has smacking bad guys in the face.

#110 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

@BionicRadd said:

@Terramagi said:

@BionicRadd said:

Ok, so I had sort of forgotten who Brevik was, but let me get this straight, the guy responsible for Hellgate London is criticizing people for game design choices? Seriously? Is he mad Diablo 3 didn't have more gray textures?

He's also responsible for Diablo 1 and 2.

Y'know.

The good ones.

I'd treat his expertise on the franchise he created a bit better than those who ruined the franchise with a goddamn RMAH.

And no, metacritic ratings don't factor into this. Dragon Age 2 got somewhere in the 80s, and that was a horrific game. Same with Mass Effect 3.

Y'know, I'm starting to detect a pattern there.

He's one of the people responsible for Diablo 2. Clearly, he is not the only one and based on his performance since, he should probably thank everyone else on the D2 teams for helping to make him look so great. Diablo 3 is a fine game and no, it's not a reskinned Diablo 2 like the vocal minority on the internet wanted so badly. The fact that they tried some new things is what I liked about D3. I liked it. Not some site on the internet and not some acclaimed critic. My opinion is my own and I do not share the rose tinted view of Diablo 2 that so many of the fanboys do. It was an amazing game for it's time, but times change.

As for the RMAH ruining Diablo 3, seriously give me a damn break. I do wish Blizzard hadn't added it until the game had been out for a few months, though. That way, people would not have had a crutch to fall back on (and then complain about) when they started getting their asses whipped in Inferno. People that play Diablo 3 for 30, 40 or 100 hours and then go on the internet complaining about how dull the game is just amaze me. Not saying that's you, but I've seen folks talk about sinking 100 hours into D3 and then shitting all over it.

Diablo 3 is a new game from a different team set in the Diablo universe. If you want Diablo 2, go play Diablo 2. Or Titan Quest. Or Torchlight. Or any number of other games that used D2 as a blueprint for their game. I will stick to Diablo 3. I never had "fun" assigning health points and filling my bag with Runes. It all seemed like tedious crap I had to deal with to get to the fun, which has smacking bad guys in the face.

I've never gotten past Act 3 in Diablo 2.

I hold no nostalgia for it.

However, his resume holds more weight than the Blizzard employees attempting to destroy him for the most diplomatic answer I've ever seen since, at this point, they themselves have admitted that they've fucked up horrifically.

Sort of like they do with all of their games, come to think of it.

#111 Posted by Mcfart (1554 posts) -

Wow, look at all the Neckbeards going to war over comments made on a guy's personal facebook account.

Diablo 3 is fine. There's nobody that loved Diablo 2 that didn't spend at least 40 hours in Diablo 3. If you hate Diablo 3 after 40 hours, then fuck off cause you still obviously enjoyed it enough to play for 40 hours. If you decide at that point that Diablo 2's better, then put on your rose-tinted glasses and jump back into 2001.

#112 Posted by makari (594 posts) -

@Terramagi said:

I've never gotten past Act 3 in Diablo 2.

I hold no nostalgia for it.

However, his resume holds more weight than the Blizzard employees attempting to destroy him for the most diplomatic answer I've ever seen since, at this point, they themselves have admitted that they've fucked up horrifically.

Sort of like they do with all of their games, come to think of it.

As someone who has made it to level 99 in Diablo 2, let me be the first to tell you that everyone complaining about the dullness and grind of Diablo 3 and praising Diablo 2 probably played as much Diablo 2 as you did.

#113 Posted by cmblasko (1133 posts) -

@Addfwyn said:

They have an ex team member whose legacy since leaving Blizzard consists of either COLOSSAL failure or products that never actually make it to market shitting on the fastest selling PC game of all time, which they spent several years of their life working on. It's understandable to think the guy is full of crap because well...he is. The only thing that shocks me about this story is the fact that anyone listens to anything Brevik has to say anymore.

The only reason it is the "fastest selling PC game" is because of Brevik and his team's work in building the Diablo brand. They created two extremely well-made and long-lasting games which founded a community of super-dedicated fans who, in turn, built up a huge amount of the hype which surrounded Diablo 3. Jay Wilson should be thanking Brevik for building the foundation he is now standing on rather than dismissing him.

@BionicRadd said:

People that play Diablo 3 for 30, 40 or 100 hours and then go on the internet complaining about how dull the game is just amaze me. Not saying that's you, but I've seen folks talk about sinking 100 hours into D3 and then shitting all over it.

Why does that surprise you? I don't think you can critique Diablo 3 with any sort of credibility until you at least hit Inferno. At least for me, it is not uncommon to finish a game you are not enjoying to wait and see if there is an upside, especially if you have been anticipating the game for awhile.

#114 Posted by Tim_the_Corsair (3065 posts) -

Man, yet another reason to dislike Blizzard has been added to the list.

#115 Edited by RuthLoose (782 posts) -

@cmblasko said:

@Addfwyn said:

They have an ex team member whose legacy since leaving Blizzard consists of either COLOSSAL failure or products that never actually make it to market shitting on the fastest selling PC game of all time, which they spent several years of their life working on. It's understandable to think the guy is full of crap because well...he is. The only thing that shocks me about this story is the fact that anyone listens to anything Brevik has to say anymore.

The only reason it is the "fastest selling PC game" is because of Brevik and his team's work in building the Diablo brand. They created two extremely well-made and long-lasting games which founded a community of super-dedicated fans who, in turn, built up a huge amount of the hype which surrounded Diablo 3. Jay Wilson should be thanking Brevik for building the foundation he is now standing on rather than dismissing him.

@BionicRadd said:

People that play Diablo 3 for 30, 40 or 100 hours and then go on the internet complaining about how dull the game is just amaze me. Not saying that's you, but I've seen folks talk about sinking 100 hours into D3 and then shitting all over it.

Why does that surprise you? I don't think you can critique Diablo 3 with any sort of credibility until you at least hit Inferno. At least for me, it is not uncommon to finish a game you are not enjoying to wait and see if there is an upside, especially if you have been anticipating the game for awhile.

The slot machine that is the item generation in Diablo III is one part intravenous drip and another part AA class for addicts afterwards. People feel embarrassed by how much they got suckered into thinking D III was going to be the new hotness for years to come.

I still think The Verge's and Besties podcaster Justin MacElroy said it best about Diablo III when he said it is "the most AAA presentation you can throw on top of what is essentially a Facebook game."

#116 Posted by cmblasko (1133 posts) -

@RuthLoose: Yeah, as much as I love the Diablo series, the games are really just elaborate slot machines after you finish their story portions.

#117 Posted by sixpin (1286 posts) -

@cmblasko said:

@BionicRadd said:

People that play Diablo 3 for 30, 40 or 100 hours and then go on the internet complaining about how dull the game is just amaze me. Not saying that's you, but I've seen folks talk about sinking 100 hours into D3 and then shitting all over it.

Why does that surprise you? I don't think you can critique Diablo 3 with any sort of credibility until you at least hit Inferno. At least for me, it is not uncommon to finish a game you are not enjoying to wait and see if there is an upside, especially if you have been anticipating the game for awhile.

I disagree. I didn't need 30-100 hours of chewing on a crap sandwich to know I don't like crap sandwiches. That said, I see no reason to jump on people that invest a 100+ hours and still wish to complain. Some people may be more optimistic about the game's future or may not have anything else to play. Who knows what their motives are, but they are entitled to the opinions either way.

#118 Edited by DexterKid (668 posts) -

''As many of you probably know, I recently made a comment on Facebook about Dave Brevik. I want to make it clear that I am very sorry for what I said. I have higher expectations for myself than to express my feelings in such a rash way and disrespect a fellow developer like Dave, someone who deserves to be treated with greater respect.

What I said was expressed out of anger, and in defense of my team and the game. People can say what they want about me, but I don't take lightly when they disparage the commitment and passion of the Diablo III team. Dave is awesome. In Diablo and Diablo II, he made two of the games that have most affected me as a developer. I respect his vision for Diablo, but just like he said in his interview, the Diablo III team must drive a vision for the game that is true to us. We believe in Diablo and have stuck by it through years of hard development to make it a reality.

The foundation of the Diablo team was built from the remnants of Blizzard North: Our lead programmer, who built the basis of the Diablo III engine while at Blizzard North; our lead tech artist, who drove much of the combat visuals, FX, and skill direction of our classes and is one of the most avid Diablo II players you can find; our lead concept artist, who helped establish the core look of the game; Wyatt Cheng, our senior technical game designer, who writes many of our blogs and works tirelessly on the live game. All these people and many others made the commitment to Diablo even after Blizzard North shut down. It was hard for me to see their contributions be diminished by someone they worked alongside, and even harder for me not to try to jump to their defense. I only wish I'd done so in a more professional manner.

Joining the Diablo team was a dream come true for me. In my house, the name Diablo was always spoken in hushed tones. It meant late nights that turned into early mornings, moments of pure adrenaline and pure joy. It meant countless conversations, debates, scouring websites for good builds, and more than one or two sick days. When Diablo II was released, I took a week off work and sent my wife out of state... and she was pregnant at the time! I played Diablo II with my dad during one of the most difficult times of his life, and the experience brought me closer to him, and I hope helped him through it. I joined the Diablo team because the idea of a world without more Diablo seemed like a pretty crappy world to me. I wasn't sure if I'd be good enough. I'm still not sure. But I felt I had to try.

Regardless of how I've done, my team has been more than good enough, and I'm proud of the game we made together. We believe it's a great game. But Diablo III has flaws. It is not perfect. Sales mean nothing if the game doesn’t live on in all of our hearts, and standing by our games is what Blizzard does. Patch 1.0.4 is a step in the right direction, but we have no illusions that our work is done.

Playing Diablo III needs to be a rewarding experience. The new legendaries are a big step in the right direction, as are tweaks to item drop rates. But I'm not convinced that we've gone far enough. If you don't have that great feeling of a good drop being right around the corner -- and the burst of excitement when it finally arrives -- then we haven't done our jobs right. Out of our concern to make sure that Diablo III would have longevity, we were overly cautious about how we handled item drops and affixes. If 1.0.4 hasn’t fixed that, you can be sure we'll continue to address it.

Part of the problem, however, is not just item drops, but the variety of things to do within the game. Many of you have stated that there needs to be more to the game than just the item hunt, and we agree completely. The Paragon system is a step in the right direction, giving meta-progress for your time in the game, but it does little to address the variety of activities you can do while playing. I don't think there’s a silver-bullet solution to this problem, but I do think we can make this aspect of the game better, and as such we're planning more than just PvP for the next major patch. Not trying to be coy, but we're still firming things up and will talk about this as soon as we can.

Difficulty has been a constant source of division when discussing the game. Some players believe Diablo has never been about crushing challenges, but more about efficiency and farming. Some players want a game that tests them to their limits. Neither player is wrong. As it stands, Diablo III simply does not provide the tools to allow players to scale the game challenge to something appropriate for them. We set Inferno as the high watermark and took a one-size-fits-all approach to game challenge. Later in the development of Diablo II, the 'players 8' command -- which let people set monster difficulty -- was added to address this issue, and we're considering something similar for the next major Diablo III patch to allow players to make up their own minds about how hard or how easy is right for them.

The Auction House has also proven to be a big challenge. It adds a lot of power for players to trade and acquire items. Getting a great Monk drop that you can trade for better gear for your Wizard is obviously a great benefit, but it does come with a downside. The Auction House can short circuit the natural pace of item drops, making the game feel less rewarding for some players. This is a problem we recognize. At this point we're not sure of the exact way to fix it, but we’re discussing it constantly, and we believe it's a problem we can overcome.

While these are some of the major issues with Diablo III, they aren't the only things we're looking at. On a daily basis we ask ourselves if the classes are satisfying to play, if rares and champions are fun to fight, if they’re tuned well relative to normal monsters. Can we make further improvements to social elements of the game? How can items be even better?

We made Diablo III because we believe in the Diablo games. We think the gameplay is awesome, the world is compelling, and it's the game we all wanted to play. Because we believe in it, we'll continue to stand by it and make it better. We are committed to making Diablo III the best Diablo game to date, and we hope you'll continue to help us do just that.

Saying that, I'd like to apologize to all of you, the players in our community. You deserve better than my reaction to Dave's comments. You deserve more honest communication about the game and what we're doing to make it a more awesome experience for us all. We care about Diablo very much, and appreciate your passion for it. Without you, we wouldn't be able to do this, and for that I can't thank you enough.''

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6398870250#1

#119 Posted by EXTomar (4507 posts) -

I don't see the problem with the criticism or the defense.

#120 Posted by cmblasko (1133 posts) -

@DexterKid:Really good on Jay Wilson to post that apology. It is not going to make me reverse my opinion on Diablo 3 but it sure makes me feel better about him and his team.

Did anyone find that comment about him sending his pregnant wife out-of-state pretty odd, though?

@sixpin: Well, yeah, if a game is bad on all counts then a sampling of it is enough to render judgement. I guess I would have been more clear by saying that I was addressing games like Diablo 3 which elicit such a wide range of responses from players and demand significant time and thought be put into them before your criticism can become useful.

#121 Posted by Forderz (247 posts) -

I wish I shared Jay's enthusiasm. I'll probably return for the expansion, when they (hopefully) really shake things up.

#122 Posted by Gonmog (580 posts) -

Was not to long go we where saying dave Brevik sucks due to the last screw job he worked ok.

#123 Posted by FengShuiGod (1478 posts) -

Remember StarCraft and Diablo 2? Those were cool.

#124 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

They're basically saying fuck the guy that created the franchise? They really acted like idiots here, but they are human so... Also, judging by the interview, the guys was being really diplomatic, I would have just said Your game sucks elephant dicks compared to the last installment.

#125 Posted by Gonmog (580 posts) -

I love long threads like this. Means half of the stuff with in them will not be read! :D

#126 Posted by 71Ranchero (2679 posts) -

I think both sides handled this unprofessionally. The fan boys on either side are also a pretty sorry lot. But hey, at least they got in some plugs for some Marvel game and a D3 patch.

Online
#127 Edited by ahgunsillyo (444 posts) -

@Bwast said:

That interview is pathetic. The answers are fine but the questions are incredibly biased. It's clear they didn't like D3 and are trying to get this guy to shit on the new game.

That's really what I thought when I read through the interview. The interviewer makes statements like

Do you think they bought the wrong people in? As we understand, Jay Wilson, for example, his background was RTS. From our point of view it looked like they misunderstood what kept people playing, The type of loot drops, which has been a big issues. One of the other issues is they have not listened to their community, and they have not analysed what makes up that addictive Diablo experience.

and

Do you feel a little let down that the legacy has kind of been mashed up?

He's pretty much saying "Yeah, so this game sucks. Do you feel bad that this game sucks?" That and the fact that he singles out Jay Wilson for seemingly no reason (he could have just said "As we understand, some of the developers have backgrounds in RTS") just kind of reeks of bias and a lack of professionalism.

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