Diablo III Introduces New Endgame System, Paragon

Posted by patrickklepek (4124 posts) -
Paragon is Blizzard's first big response to complaints about Diablo III's endgame.

It’s not uncommon for players to be engaging with a Blizzard Entertainment game for years after its initial release, but coming up with a satisfying endgame has proven problematic for Diablo III.

Blizzard is hoping to address concerns about Diablo III’s endgame with patch 1.0.4, which includes the newly unveiled Paragon system.

Paragon is 100 additional levels to unlock after achieving level 60, with each Paragon advancement bringing core stat boots “similar to what you’d gain from a normal level” and an additional 3% Magic Find and 3% Gold Find.

Your in-game portrait will also glow, apparently.

“We understand that some players feel frustrated once they hit level 60 because they no longer feel like they’re making progress,” said the company in a blog post today. “It can be demoralizing to play for an hour, not get any drops, and also be out a big chunk of gold from repair costs. Your play session may not only end without an upgrade, it can wind up being a net loss. Everyone wants to feel like they’re making some progress when they log in, even if they don’t get that new sword.”

There are also changes happening to the Magic Find system, which are outlined in detail at Blizzard’s site.

Staff
#1 Posted by patrickklepek (4124 posts) -
Paragon is Blizzard's first big response to complaints about Diablo III's endgame.

It’s not uncommon for players to be engaging with a Blizzard Entertainment game for years after its initial release, but coming up with a satisfying endgame has proven problematic for Diablo III.

Blizzard is hoping to address concerns about Diablo III’s endgame with patch 1.0.4, which includes the newly unveiled Paragon system.

Paragon is 100 additional levels to unlock after achieving level 60, with each Paragon advancement bringing core stat boots “similar to what you’d gain from a normal level” and an additional 3% Magic Find and 3% Gold Find.

Your in-game portrait will also glow, apparently.

“We understand that some players feel frustrated once they hit level 60 because they no longer feel like they’re making progress,” said the company in a blog post today. “It can be demoralizing to play for an hour, not get any drops, and also be out a big chunk of gold from repair costs. Your play session may not only end without an upgrade, it can wind up being a net loss. Everyone wants to feel like they’re making some progress when they log in, even if they don’t get that new sword.”

There are also changes happening to the Magic Find system, which are outlined in detail at Blizzard’s site.

Staff
#2 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2685 posts) -

Awesome

#3 Posted by kingofpeanuts (479 posts) -

I still won't reinstall it.

#4 Posted by Evercaptor (391 posts) -

If you made all the bad decisions, You'll end up in Renegade mode and your portrait glows red!

Pushing dudes out of windows not guarenteed

#5 Posted by Benny (1951 posts) -

I thought this patch was confirmed for the day Guild Wars 2 launches? Seems like the counter-programming thing to do.

#6 Posted by iAmJohn (6117 posts) -

Too little too late.

#7 Posted by Turambar (6738 posts) -

@Benny said:

I thought this patch was confirmed for the day Guild Wars 2 launches? Seems like the counter-programming thing to do.

Actually, awhile ago, in one of the dev blog posts, they asked the fan base for suggestions on how they wanted to alter the Magic Find system which was causing players to feel the need to swap equipment mid fight. The paragon idea was brought up by a fan response.

#8 Posted by Argo15 (49 posts) -

Cool!

#9 Posted by Sparky_Buzzsaw (6154 posts) -

I don't know. It feels like this is a Band-Aid instead of a permanent fix to Diablo 3's end-game. I'm not wholly familiar with the entire list of changes, so maybe this is off-base. But it still feels like Blizzard isn't addressing the core question of if this game exists as a front for the real-life auction house or if it's really the other way around.

Moderator
#10 Posted by _Horde (839 posts) -

Sounds good!

But also, generic internet comment included: whiiiine

#11 Edited by Cloneslayer (1626 posts) -

@kingofpeanuts said:

I still won't reinstall it.

Same. Totally over the game. Would have been still playing it it they released it halfway balanced and not full of dirtbag business practices.

Its hard even for myself to understand how much I dislike that game in hindsight after loving it for the 30+ hours I put into it.

#12 Posted by EndlessLotus (109 posts) -

And the hamster wheel continues to turn....

#13 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7615 posts) -

@Benny said:

I thought this patch was confirmed for the day Guild Wars 2 launches? Seems like the counter-programming thing to do.

That's the WoW patch.

#14 Posted by ThePickle (4167 posts) -

Fuck that loser.

#15 Edited by Phatmac (5725 posts) -

Too late Blizzard.

#16 Posted by LobsterMobster (53 posts) -

I hate it when they do this. They think the solution to everything is raising the level cap and then when players hit that they're shocked, SHOCKED, that all they've done is make the end-game less accessible for casual players.

#17 Posted by Fradada (2 posts) -

@kingofpeanuts:

Ya, get back with me blizzard when the random world generator update comes out.

#18 Posted by Turambar (6738 posts) -

@Sparky_Buzzsaw said:

I don't know. It feels like this is a Band-Aid instead of a permanent fix to Diablo 3's end-game. I'm not wholly familiar with the entire list of changes, so maybe this is off-base. But it still feels like Blizzard isn't addressing the core question of if this game exists as a front for the real-life auction house or if it's really the other way around.

The change to legendary items already answers this. 1.0.4 will significantly increase the stats of all new legendary items. However, these changes will not be retroactive. If the game was as conspiracy theorists predicted, a front for the RMAH, retroactive stat changes would only be logical as you'd suddenly have a massive inflation of prices for all preexisting oranges and greens.

#19 Posted by Benny (1951 posts) -
#20 Posted by fox01313 (5069 posts) -

Good to see they are doing something though with the amount of time spent working on the game, you'd think that they would have figured all this out ages ago so it was there at the launch of the game. Might reinstall D3 eventually to see some of the stuff but with Guild Wars2 around the corner, think I'll just keep avoiding going back into D3 for now.

#21 Posted by spiceninja (3056 posts) -

I never uninstalled and once this is out I'll play some more. I haven't even made it to level 60 yet.

#22 Posted by CornBREDX (5098 posts) -

I was talking to a friend of mine about this earlier, but basically my thoughts on this are that it's really weird. It's kind of like them going "oh, shoot, we didn't make the game have that lasting appeal. Lets add more levels." 
 
I feel this is only a minutia of a larger problem I have with the game (lasting wise, as a game it's fine). I feel the reason i could play Diablo 2 so long was because of how many levels there were and how customizable it felt. I know I'm just repeating other peoples complaints here, but taking out the manual stats- while fine short term- takes away a lot of what made the last game so long lasting. At least for me, i know others that like it like this and that's cool. It's just how I feel about it. 
 
I also don't like how useless a lot of the runes feel (most people will find one they like fairly early on and then never use any other), but that's mainly just me nitpicking at that point I guess haha 
 
Diablo 3 is a fine game but I feel there are some design decisions they made that are now rearing its head and they are struggling to find other ways to fill the hole.

#23 Posted by Irvandus (2877 posts) -

People will still bitch because they want WoW endgame not Diablo endgame. Honestly the people complaining about this stuff have no memory of endgame in D2

#24 Posted by Turambar (6738 posts) -

@LobsterMobster said:

I hate it when they do this. They think the solution to everything is raising the level cap and then when players hit that they're shocked, SHOCKED, that all they've done is make the end-game less accessible for casual players.

You do realize they are actually revamping the difficulty cliffs for champion/elite mob groups along with buffing the skills of all existing classes, as well as both increasing drop rates and increasing the potential stats for lv 61 and 62 items?

#25 Posted by WindFall259 (364 posts) -

I'm so glad they finally understand these issues... 3 months after release.

#26 Posted by Pop (2624 posts) -

I'm still wondering how much EXP you need to get to lvl 100, some people say 10 billion some people say 300 mil, I got no idea. I also wonder if +exp gear works for paragon.

#27 Posted by Snickersnee (12 posts) -

Diablo 3 had no real long lasting appeal to me at all. I guess they're trying to have more then 1000 people on the servers.

#28 Edited by AnEternalEnigma (281 posts) -

Diablo III was the biggest waste of money I've spent in gaming this year. Adding what essentially amounts to a Call of Duty prestige carrot-on-a-stick gimmick will not change this sentiment.

#29 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

@LobsterMobster said:

I hate it when they do this. They think the solution to everything is raising the level cap and then when players hit that they're shocked, SHOCKED, that all they've done is make the end-game less accessible for casual players.

I'd argue that end-game and casual are two mutually-exclusive concepts.

Personally, the Paragon system gives me a reason to go back and play a bit more Diablo. Even if it's not a perfect fix, at this point adding something to the game seems far superior to the endless nerfs of previous patches.

#30 Posted by amir90 (2154 posts) -

Hmm, might re-install it.

#31 Posted by FMinus (392 posts) -

Fuck that loser of a game director who turned Diablo 3 into a turd.

#32 Posted by Doppelgamer (313 posts) -

No thanks. I already made back my money on the AH months ago, and I have no interest in collecting gear so that I can use it on... Oh wait. There's nothing to use the gear on... except the same content.

#33 Edited by Turambar (6738 posts) -

@CornBREDX said:

I was talking to a friend of mine about this earlier, but basically my thoughts on this are that it's really weird. It's kind of like them going "oh, shoot, we didn't make the game have that lasting appeal. Lets add more levels." I feel this is only a minutia of a larger problem I have with the game (lasting wise, as a game it's fine). I feel the reason i could play Diablo 2 so long was because of how many levels there were and how customizable it felt. I know I'm just repeating other peoples complaints here, but taking out the manual stats- while fine short term- takes away a lot of what made the last game so long lasting. At least for me, i know others that like it like this and that's cool. It's just how I feel about it. I also don't like how useless a lot of the runes feel (most people will find one they like fairly early on and then never use any other), but that's mainly just me nitpicking at that point I guess haha Diablo 3 is a fine game but I feel there are some design decisions they made that are now rearing its head and they are struggling to find other ways to fill the hole.

As far as the lack of skill diversity due to some simply being useless, that's being hopefully addressed with the rest of the 1.0.4 patch. Seems like since GB only wrote an article for this, a lot of people are getting the misconception that 1.0.4 will only be the paragon system when in fact it is latest change announced with 6 dev blogs worth of changes posted before it.

#34 Posted by Narx (173 posts) -

Nice for people that still want to play. I just don't see how this could be THE THING that makes people go: OH SHIT I TOTALLY WANT TO PLAY THIS NOW! .

#35 Posted by Wilshere (293 posts) -

Good changes. I am in.

#36 Edited by Torticoli (12 posts) -

I'm looking forward to see how this screws up the leveling system once the inevitable expansion hits and the level cap is raised beyond 60.

Also, this game doesn't need an "endgame", no more than Diablo II did. It's designed to be played through at least 4 times per character, once per difficulty level. It'll give you a solid 60-100 hours of gameplay, at least, and even more if you want to go for achievements, or a level 60 character of every class, and so on. I just can't imagine in what world this is not enough.

Honestly, it feels to me like this is the latest in a series of clumsy decisions from Blizzard regarding this game. I think it's getting more and more obvious that this game didn't deserve half of the hype it got. At least, the positive hype.

#37 Posted by GERALTITUDE (3228 posts) -

I don't really have a huge problem with the endgame, but I despise the game's skill system.

I like that you're limited in DII and that you have to make a new character to play a different style. Am I the only person who thinks that was a huge reason that game enjoyed such longevity?

#38 Posted by TzarStefan (428 posts) -

Blizzards brainwashing games don't seem to work like they use to. They mad.

#39 Posted by emem (1965 posts) -
@AnEternalEnigma said:

Diablo III was the biggest waste of money I've spent in gaming this year. Adding what essentially amounts to a Call of Duty prestige carrot-on-a-stick gimmick will not change this sentiment.

Just out of curiosity, how many hours did you play and which level did you reach with your most played character?
#40 Posted by SomeJerk (3216 posts) -

Diablo 3 is the Final Fantasy 13 of loot games.

#41 Posted by Turambar (6738 posts) -

@Pop said:

I'm still wondering how much EXP you need to get to lvl 100, some people say 10 billion some people say 300 mil, I got no idea. I also wonder if +exp gear works for paragon.

Well, Paragon 1 is suppose to equate going from lv 59-60, so who knows. I'm sure the poop sockers will hit Paragon 100 within 2 weeks max no matter how high it is though.

#42 Edited by Brackynews (4060 posts) -

RENEGADE!!!

*clackclackclackclack*

(Yes I am replaying ME1 right now. Not having actual interrupts is a huge bummer.)

#43 Posted by Gravier251 (217 posts) -

Hmm, throwing an extra 100 levels in dosn't seem like particularly compelling extra depth. Still dosn't really fix certain underlying issues such as the stats on items being kind of devoid of personality and flavour; It is all just +x dps, +x strength, etc. Nothing wildly varied or unique to have the pleasure of stumbling upon.

#44 Posted by Torticoli (12 posts) -

@SomeJerk said:

Diablo 3 is the Final Fantasy 13 of loot games.

I don't think it's that bad. I'd say it's the Final Fantasy XII of hack'n'slash / loot games : pretty good gameplay, not quite perfect, far from being as good as previous games in the series, a horrible story with no soul, and way too much hype (mostly based on the rest of the series) for what it actually was.

#45 Posted by Knives (711 posts) -

Good news. Too little too late.

#46 Posted by Brackynews (4060 posts) -

Your play session may not only end without an upgrade, it can wind up being a net loss. Everyone wants to feel like they’re making some progress...

Also, if they don't teach that shit DAY ONE at Digipen...? This industry is doomed.

#47 Edited by stinky (1544 posts) -

@FMinus said:

Fuck that loser of a game director who turned Diablo 3 into a turd.

yeah that was bad, guy saying that turned me off blizzard a bit.

you don't say something like that.

#48 Posted by Torticoli (12 posts) -

@GERALTITUDE said:

I don't really have a huge problem with the endgame, but I despise the game's skill system.

I like that you're limited in DII and that you have to make a new character to play a different style. Am I the only person who thinks that was a huge reason that game enjoyed such longevity?

No, you're not the only one. It obviously played a huge part in it. But remember, the people who made and designed DII are not the ones who made and designed DIII. Different vision of game design, and frankly, one is better than the other.

#49 Posted by Rotnac (710 posts) -

Sounds like a neat idea.

#50 Posted by Torticoli (12 posts) -

@stinky said:

@FMinus said:

Fuck that loser of a game director who turned Diablo 3 into a turd.

yeah that was bad, guy saying that turned me off blizzard a bit.

you don't say something like that.

Especially when talking about the guy who co-founded Blizzard North and created the damn franchise you're talking about and to which you've given a poorly designed third episode. That just reeks of unjustified, butthurt arrogance, not to mention the fact that Jay Wilson can't be blind to the fact that his own game doesn't even come close to the masterpiece that Diablo II was. Talk about the incompetent, clumsy student insulting the master.

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