FOR the LAST time, DIABLO 3 IS more customizable than D2

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#101 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@SonicBoyster said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@SonicBoyster:

You have more control than EVER before from ANY rpg on how weird your character can be. Blizzard has said that even the Melee sorc can get through Hell, do your research before picking and choosing things you don't understand. The decisions are just much more rooted in your gear... and no its not as much luck as you think, in the BETA in one hour you can probably get enough blues to roll about 10 items with randomized stats, and there's a good chance that the stats you want will show up. There is actually much LESS luck in building your character than ever before, I remember in D2 I found an Ice blast + 5 staff, and for the next 40 levels nothing else dropped that would help my main skill as much so I was stuck with it for countless hours... now that's luck.

So it's not luck, it's just random rolls. Gotcha. A melee sorc could get through hell in Diablo 2 if you had the right gear too, it just wasn't a practical build. More control than in any RPG? Hello hyperbole. What do you mean, more varied gear? Obviously without having the stats or skill trees you're limited to gear, so, I guess if the gear is nuts enough you can have a lot of control but I wouldn't put it on a level higher than, say, Final Fantasy VI, where a set of gear could straight up turn you into a super imp creature, or Diablo 2 where the right gear could turn you into a werewolf barbarian. I'm pretty sure you're the one that isn't understanding the discussion here. Nobody is saying you can't create a varied character, we're just saying that it is completely gear dependent, meaning the only thing at all special about your character is whatever had the highest stats that popped off of a monster while you were playing.

Furthermore if the gear really is as varied as you claim, the odds of you finding a better rune to upgrade the one specific form of the one specific spell you want are probably pretty bad too. It's just diablo, a bunch of numbers thrown into a hat, except this time I don't get to drive the car, I have to ride along the rails.

People like you are practical, pragmatic game players. You want to be able to get everything done in one playthrough so you don't have to go back and experiment. People like me are into RPGs because they reward experimentation and encourage you to make multiple characters which all have a different gameplay experience. It's a matter of playstyle. Diablo 2 was my kind of game, Diablo 3 is yours.

Thank you for demonstrating you haven't even looked into the mechanics... there are no rune drops, you have them all and they are interchangeable. No I love experimenting but I don't want to have to play 100 hours just to cap my character and find out if the experiment worked. D3 actually rewards experimentation, I think your framing things in a weird way... making a system that forces you to replay the same character through the same segment is called PUNISHMENT not reward. Its random rolls within the category of item you wish... so the chance of finding an item that you want is proportionately MUCH higher than in D2 so yes EASILY much less luck than D2.

Actually the gear DOES make a massive difference I don't recall being able to turn a sorceress into a tank(unless maybe ff8 or some job style ones). I don't remember FF ever offering the such fundamental changes in spells which the rune system offers. There are less ways of varying your character but this has been counteracted by the fact that the others have a MUCH larger impact.

Before you reply plz look at the link I posted on page 1 maybe you can understand why your wrong without being stubborn then. If you love experimenting, this is the game to play... and if you can't see that then your not looking closely... I call having to play 20-30 hours to get whirlwind and find out that I don't like it a HIGH barrier to experimentation.

#102 Edited by Tennmuerti (8103 posts) -
@gamefreak9 said:

@ICryCauseImEmo:

D3 won't be laggy(the beta was for them to get a taste of their server capacity, I can tell you SC2 isn't laggy at all and its the same type of servers) and saying your going to get the exact same experience from TL2 is just stupid in every possible dimension. TL2 will be good(maybe) but not nearly anywhere as well done and thought out as D3.

The SC2 comparison is only true if you are playing MP. If you are playing SC2 singleplayer there is 0 latency or lag because you are not connected to anything if you don't want to and all processing happens on your side, so even if you are connected online for achievemets it's still not going to affect your game. You are not going to get the same experience played TL2 singleplayer as D3 singleplayer. For TL2 you are once again as in above not conencting to anything and playing your local game. D3 works entirely via Blizzard servers and basically D3  world instances are hosted on them regardless is it is sp or mp. Hence yo will always have latency, in TL2 0 latency when playing singleplayer, because it all on your machine, and not the mmo model.
 
Why is this bad even further? There are plenty of people who do not have acces to smooth stable, internet connection at all times, which is what is required for an online server based game like this. And even more importantly Blizzard only has server farms in specific locations. The same Australians and New Zelanders who get completely screwed playing WoW with a constant well over 300 latency were experienceing the exact same thing during the open beta but to a larger degree. Myself being in EU and open beta servers being open only in US was getting over 200 ping. This is not how TL2 singleplayer works at all.
 
EDIT: Oops sorry i noticed the TL2 comment was just in general gameplay not in terms of lag. ^.^
#103 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -
#104 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@Tennmuerti:

Well SC2 about 99% of my gametime is MP and I can tell you i've never had a lag spike even when playing from Canada(on my EU account). Same goes for WOW actually I was playing with US friends from EU and it was fine. I think your complaining a hell of a lot for what could be a 2-3 second lag spike in 200 hour experience. Though I do agree that for people with limited internet Torchlight is the better option, though I think that's very pushy, most people have good internet nowadays.

#105 Posted by Hailinel (24805 posts) -

I don't know about it being more customizable than Diablo II, but it is certainly more customizable than D2.

Online
#106 Posted by Tennmuerti (8103 posts) -
@gamefreak9 said:

@Tennmuerti:

Well SC2 about 99% of my gametime is MP and I can tell you i've never had a lag spike even when playing from Canada(on my EU account). Same goes for WOW actually I was playing with US friends from EU and it was fine. I think your complaining a hell of a lot for what could be a 2-3 second lag spike in 200 hour experience. Though I do agree that for people with limited internet Torchlight is the better option, though I think that's very pushy, most people have good internet nowadays.

I'm not really pushing anyone one way or another. I'll be playing both games myself.

But i do speak from experience that a lot of people share. Both in terms of internet providers that are not on the ball all the time and/or living in areas quite far from Blizzard servers.
Admitedly latency will be less of an issue for D3 then either for say WoW or for a shooter. I remember when I was studying in Australia and maining a raid tank boss abilities with 1.5 second timer were terifying as unlike someone who is in US who has a full 1.5 seconds to react playing from AU you only got 0.5 seconds to react due to latency. And nowdays i don't even join GB US BF3 servers couse I'm too used to the much smaller latency while on local EU servers.
 
A lagspike on normal isn't really an issue for me personally.
But there are times when I go on hollidays with my family to semi remoto locations (like skiing in the alps) where the internet is total garbage and playing always online games there is pretty much out of the question. Or just when I go to hollidays TO them, as they are in the indian ocean with only terrible satelite connection, again preventing pretty much all significant online play. In both scenarious (that happen to me quite often) i won't be able to play my SP game or only play it with a really bad lag.
And just last week my AP crapped up and it wook the provider 2 days to replace it.
 
I have no issues with MMO's or online games depending on a connection.
But I highly dislike my SP experiences to be damaged by such.
#107 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@Tennmuerti:

Well yeah I don't like having to be hooked online all the time any more than the next person. Though in my case since i'm going to start D3 with a couple of friends I think its well worth it how seamlessly they join in on my games. No need to leave and create a new one, its literally one click away from joining me from the log in screen, so I think that totally makes it worth it. Since your going to be hooked online you might as well not make it a SP game and always take advantage of it and play with people :P.

#108 Posted by Tennmuerti (8103 posts) -
@gamefreak9: Yep I really enjoyed how smooth the coop is. Even just drop in drop out with randoms.
#109 Posted by Tarsier (1064 posts) -

ok its a tiny bit more cusomtiazble than diablo 2 but is it customiazle enough???? the answers no. its like the most shallow rpg thats ever been made in the history of man kind and i have no interest in such an affront against humanity

#110 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@Tarsier: ur much less likely to run into someone with the same skills/loot/runes/gems than in any other rpg out there... so yes its still very customizable...

#111 Posted by Sanity (1907 posts) -

There is a insane amount of skill, rune, and passive combinations so its going to be a very customizable game.

#112 Posted by NickL (2246 posts) -

Stats-wise I still don't think it is as customizable (and I'm right booyah)

In D2 you could do such things as making a character with no strength, only strength, no vit, only vit, a balanced character etc.

In D3 you can choose to have extra of any stat if you decide to use a gem on that. Just because its an option doesn't mean it is more customizable.

The skill system isn't anything like D2 so it is not really even worth discussing which one is more customizable

#113 Posted by SonicBoyster (353 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

Thank you for demonstrating you haven't even looked into the mechanics... there are no rune drops, you have them all and they are interchangeable. No I love experimenting but I don't want to have to play 100 hours just to cap my character and find out if the experiment worked. D3 actually rewards experimentation, I think your framing things in a weird way... making a system that forces you to replay the same character through the same segment is called PUNISHMENT not reward. Its random rolls within the category of item you wish... so the chance of finding an item that you want is proportionately MUCH higher than in D2 so yes EASILY much less luck than D2.

Actually the gear DOES make a massive difference I don't recall being able to turn a sorceress into a tank(unless maybe ff8 or some job style ones). I don't remember FF ever offering the such fundamental changes in spells which the rune system offers. There are less ways of varying your character but this has been counteracted by the fact that the others have a MUCH larger impact.

Before you reply plz look at the link I posted on page 1 maybe you can understand why your wrong without being stubborn then. If you love experimenting, this is the game to play... and if you can't see that then your not looking closely... I call having to play 20-30 hours to get whirlwind and find out that I don't like it a HIGH barrier to experimentation.

I looked at the link, my bad about the drops, you're right they're all unlocked at predetermined levels, meaning you don't even have a chance at having any randomness to the skills. My bad for not understanding how they work. This, unfortunately, also plays into my 'everybody sounds exactly the same' hand. I also didn't say gear didn't make a big difference, I just said gear makes all the difference, and if runes aren't gear, your comment is not applicable. A higher likelyhood of getting the items that you want is nice, but like anything involving chance it's a give-and-take system. You felt more rewarded for finding super unique stuff because it was super unique, but you got more frustrated by not finding it for long periods of time because it was super unique. Personal tastes.

@gamefreak9 said:

@SonicBoyster:

Just to make it clear, at level 60 of being a witch doctor, regardless of how you played you can experiment with ALL of these spells and ALL of their variations http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/active/.

That was how it sounded. I did have the misunderstanding of thinking the runes were randomized, which, I guess they aren't. The ability to turn your dude into whatever you want is great for some players, less interesting for others, hence the give-and-take about it on the board so far.

I just personally don't like the idea that anybody can be anything at any time, and that there's more variation but only in the sense that the gear is more random than it used to be (higher numbers for bonuses imply a higher range of possibilities hence more random). It'll feel less like an RPG and more like walking into a casino and picking the prettiest slot machine based on my personal preferences at that time.

#114 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@SonicBoyster said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Thank you for demonstrating you haven't even looked into the mechanics... there are no rune drops, you have them all and they are interchangeable. No I love experimenting but I don't want to have to play 100 hours just to cap my character and find out if the experiment worked. D3 actually rewards experimentation, I think your framing things in a weird way... making a system that forces you to replay the same character through the same segment is called PUNISHMENT not reward. Its random rolls within the category of item you wish... so the chance of finding an item that you want is proportionately MUCH higher than in D2 so yes EASILY much less luck than D2.

Actually the gear DOES make a massive difference I don't recall being able to turn a sorceress into a tank(unless maybe ff8 or some job style ones). I don't remember FF ever offering the such fundamental changes in spells which the rune system offers. There are less ways of varying your character but this has been counteracted by the fact that the others have a MUCH larger impact.

Before you reply plz look at the link I posted on page 1 maybe you can understand why your wrong without being stubborn then. If you love experimenting, this is the game to play... and if you can't see that then your not looking closely... I call having to play 20-30 hours to get whirlwind and find out that I don't like it a HIGH barrier to experimentation.

I looked at the link, my bad about the drops, you're right they're all unlocked at predetermined levels, meaning you don't even have a chance at having any randomness to the skills. My bad for not understanding how they work. This, unfortunately, also plays into my 'everybody sounds exactly the same' hand. I also didn't say gear didn't make a big difference, I just said gear makes all the difference, and if runes aren't gear, your comment is not applicable. A higher likelyhood of getting the items that you want is nice, but like anything involving chance it's a give-and-take system. You felt more rewarded for finding super unique stuff because it was super unique, but you got more frustrated by not finding it for long periods of time because it was super unique. Personal tastes.

@gamefreak9 said:

@SonicBoyster:

Just to make it clear, at level 60 of being a witch doctor, regardless of how you played you can experiment with ALL of these spells and ALL of their variations http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/active/.

That was how it sounded. I did have the misunderstanding of thinking the runes were randomized, which, I guess they aren't. The ability to turn your dude into whatever you want is great for some players, less interesting for others, hence the give-and-take about it on the board so far.

I just personally don't like the idea that anybody can be anything at any time, and that there's more variation but only in the sense that the gear is more random than it used to be (higher numbers for bonuses imply a higher range of possibilities hence more random). It'll feel less like an RPG and more like walking into a casino and picking the prettiest slot machine based on my personal preferences at that time.

well at 60 the incentive to stick to a build starts kicking in by giving you a buff that increases drop chance and some other stuff. THis buff is stackable and stacks with every elite kill. Well you can't have a multiplayer rpg with lots of replayability unless you have this kind of randomized system really. I'm sure blizzard took into account the "everybody feels the same" into their testing, TBH though even in the beta at one time I was rolled with 3 level 13 wizards and they already had different ways of playing, I think by 60 the window is sooo wide nobody will be doing the same build. I mean picking the same abilities, with the same runes, in 9 slots is VERY unlikely.

#115 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@NickL said:

Stats-wise I still don't think it is as customizable (and I'm right booyah)

In D2 you could do such things as making a character with no strength, only strength, no vit, only vit, a balanced character etc.

In D3 you can choose to have extra of any stat if you decide to use a gem on that. Just because its an option doesn't mean it is more customizable.

The skill system isn't anything like D2 so it is not really even worth discussing which one is more customizable

what's wrong with you? can't you read? GOD DAMMIT READ THE POST!

#116 Posted by NickL (2246 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

@NickL said:

Stats-wise I still don't think it is as customizable (and I'm right booyah)

In D2 you could do such things as making a character with no strength, only strength, no vit, only vit, a balanced character etc.

In D3 you can choose to have extra of any stat if you decide to use a gem on that. Just because its an option doesn't mean it is more customizable.

The skill system isn't anything like D2 so it is not really even worth discussing which one is more customizable

what's wrong with you? can't you read? GOD DAMMIT READ THE POST!

I read the post before I posted. The fundamental problem with every argument made in that post is that they don't account for the obvious inflation of numbers from d2 to d3, to an intelligent person it basically reads, "You got 490 points in D2, now that can be on a single item probably, so hey, customization!"

I'm not saying D3 won't be customizable, but there is a reason why I made about 8 sorcs that all played entirely different in D2, and D3 won't have that.

D3 will be customizable because of the items and because of the skill system. If you try to say that their stat system is customizable (which is all I was saying in my original post, if you learn to read) then you have some serious blinders on and there is no help for you.

#117 Edited by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@NickL said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@NickL said:

Stats-wise I still don't think it is as customizable (and I'm right booyah)

In D2 you could do such things as making a character with no strength, only strength, no vit, only vit, a balanced character etc.

In D3 you can choose to have extra of any stat if you decide to use a gem on that. Just because its an option doesn't mean it is more customizable.

The skill system isn't anything like D2 so it is not really even worth discussing which one is more customizable

what's wrong with you? can't you read? GOD DAMMIT READ THE POST!

I read the post before I posted. The fundamental problem with every argument made in that post is that they don't account for the obvious inflation of numbers from d2 to d3, to an intelligent person it basically reads, "You got 490 points in D2, now that can be on a single item probably, so hey, customization!"

I'm not saying D3 won't be customizable, but there is a reason why I made about 8 sorcs that all played entirely different in D2, and D3 won't have that.

D3 will be customizable because of the items and because of the skill system. If you try to say that their stat system is customizable (which is all I was saying in my original post, if you learn to read) then you have some serious blinders on and there is no help for you.

no the stat system IS More customizable its just been transfered from half items and half char, to ALL items. Instead of making 8 sorc with different stat allocation you will have 1 but instead have 8 different sets in your stash. The end result is the same except that there is now a bigger difference between your character wearing different sets than there was between your different wizards, this is all on a pure stats basis.

#118 Posted by MisterMouse (3554 posts) -

I actually like the fact that the direct player choice on stats was excised because it was a pretty bad system. One felt there was a specific way you had to spec to truly get everything and make the hard modes viable. Also from my experience in the Beta I enjoy the rune systems and skill systems a lot more than DII.

#119 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@MisterMouse said:

I actually like the fact that the direct player choice on stats was excised because it was a pretty bad system. One felt there was a specific way you had to spec to truly get everything and make the hard modes viable. Also from my experience in the Beta I enjoy the rune systems and skill systems a lot more than DII.

well yeah what was especially terrible was that you HAD to put points in specific things just to meet the reqs for items. To have real choice they at least needed to make equipement not have requirements, just like D3.

#120 Posted by NickL (2246 posts) -

@gamefreak9: We are basically arguing the same point I think. Maybe I should have added in the word base in front of when I said stats.

Of course items change stats, again, if you look at my previous post you will see I never said they didn't. The items have a bigger impact on stats then they did in D2, and if that post is correct it sounds like items will have such a big impact that a characters base stats would be all but irrelevant, which takes away a level of customization from stats and adds a level of customization to items.

I don't know enough about the d3 items to argue anything about that. If it is similar to D2:LOD in that the uniques will almost always be better then the rares then that wouldn't be much customization either though, then I will be disappointed. Sure there was "customization" but that games "customization" was as minor as getting a shako with perfect def or one with low def or a mara with perfect resistance vs one without perfect resistance. I hope rares are meaningful in this game basically is what I'm saying...

#121 Posted by JasonR86 (9707 posts) -

Just so we're clear Diablo 3 is or isn't more customizable then Diablo 2?

#122 Posted by Gellrock (381 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

Just so we're clear Diablo 3 is or isn't more customizable then Diablo 2?

Yes.

#123 Posted by JasonR86 (9707 posts) -

@Gellrock said:

@JasonR86 said:

Just so we're clear Diablo 3 is or isn't more customizable then Diablo 2?

Yes.

Seriously? Cause I'm really confused. I've heard it isn't and I need way more clarification then I've heard.

/hint: I'm being sarcastic.

#124 Posted by Xeirus (1305 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

@project343 said:

@The_Laughing_Man: I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. But Path of Exile is an MMO of sorts. You'll walk into a town and see all sorts of other players running around, you can invite them if you want. Then when you go out into the world, it instances everything for you and your party. If you've ever played the original Guild Wars, it's very similar in it's design.

*Edit: I'll clarify that if you want to play the game as a singleplayer experience, there's nothing stopping you. All the content scales to your level/party size when it 'generates' the field/cave/area/castle/whatever. If you want to run around as a summoning-happy witch with 17 minions (I think that's the number I'm at now... 8 skeletons, 6 zombies, 3 spirits... yup, that math checks out) with a crazy berserker, stompy hammer friend of yours... the experience will accommodate your party setup as much as it accommodates whatever insane playstyle you want (I love specializing my way into corpse explosions--skeletons pop so nicely, especially when you got so many of 'em :D).

@Seppli: I'm actually not a fan of the original Diablo games (tried to go back and play them for the first time and were simply too dated for me, but I loved Torchlight and Titan Quest). And I'll say that the restrictive systems in Diablo III are unnerving. Initially (when I got into the beta) you could equip any six (I believe) skills that you wanted. Now, you're forced to choose between very specific sets of attacks: one CC, one defense, etc. (class-dependent). What if I wanted to roll with a particularly offensive character? Or a character who had more than one AoE skill? I was dumbfounded by how limiting the system was prior to the change, but now it's almost appalling. I'll continue to contextualize by saying that I got into the Path of Exile beta about 2 days earlier than my Diablo 3 invite (lucky me, I know), so I had already blown myself away with choice. It just felt like a really limited, simplistic, polished, narrative-driven casual-gamer focused (insofar as it was quickly digestible, not necessarily 'easy') sequel to Diablo 2.

However, when you give players the choice between any hundreds of skills, hundreds of skill modifiers that level up and can be applied in copious ways, a talent tree the size of a forest, and ZERO restrictions on your ability to 'design' your character (all classes can use all equipment, all classes can build in any direction, all classes can use all skills [provided they 'build' to accommodate the equipment/skill stat requirement]), you end up with a game that is overwhelming in all the best ways.

But sure. Diablo 3 will probably be fun from start to finish. And I'll never want to play it again; from what I gather, this notion of playing through a Diablo game like a singleplayer adventure spits on everything that Diablo stood for. I mean, people still play Diablo 2 to this very day--religiously! You think that's due to compelling narrative? Lets be serious for a second, the voice acting is terrible, and the story seems très dull and predictable. But you're forced constantly push it out of your face throughout the entire beta (either by patiently listening to the awful dialogue, or by mashing on the little [x] to make it go away). This isn't what makes action RPGs compelling; I mean, how much story was in Torchlight? Enough to tell you to keep on digging, then it got out of your way. At least those developers know what they're doing, apparently.

I'll stop ranting before I get incoherent... if I'm not incoherent already.

the shitty thing about that massive tree is that... its easy to make mistakes... and what if you change your mind? Actually the even shittier thing compared to Diablo is that I guarantee you in 2-3 months times, somebody would have found the 2-3 best builds and that will be what everyone will be doing. That won't happen with Diablo, all builds will be viable... also its not REALLY restriced in that offensive/ defensive crap, although it appears that way they more or less all have damage abilities and you really can pick full offensive or full aoe abilities.

I'm not going to read the entire thread but what I think is hilarious is that someone thinks Path of Exile is going to be good. That cracked me up.

Also, do people not remember that ALL of the shit in Diablo 2 that they are spouting about being the best thing ever was not in at the release of D2..... that game have TONS of updates and an expansion pack bigger than most games. Diablo 3 will also have tons of updates and no doubt -at least- one expansion. Don't assume you know everything about a game before it's even been release, it makes you look like a fool.

#125 Posted by SonicBoyster (353 posts) -

@Xeirus:I don't think anybody in here is talking about Diablo 3 in 2022. I think we're all talking about Diablo 3 on release. You know, like, when a person might consider purchasing the game. I think most people aren't willing to put down $60+ in the hopes that the game will end up better in a trilliondy updates, and there's no guarantee Diablo 3 will have the same support as 2. Business models have changed dramatically.

#126 Posted by Xeirus (1305 posts) -

@SonicBoyster: Blizzard supporting their products hasn't changed at all, what are you talking about. Every game they release is updated to high heaven...

I hope you've played the beta, it was great, but it was also a -tiiiiny- portion of the game. It would only let you get to the first mini-boss. It showed nothing. I think everyone here is thinking they know exactly what this game is going to be and they don't. I don't, you don't, no one does. But complaining about it literally before you've even launched it for the first time is sort of silly don't you think?

Blizzard IMO is pretty good about listening and changing things as they see fit, if something isn't working out at launch they aren't just going to sit back and count their money, how many games do they have to launch and get praised for before people understand they make quality games and they support them.

#127 Edited by project343 (2825 posts) -

@Xeirus said:

I'm not going to read the entire thread but what I think is hilarious is that someone thinks Path of Exile is going to be good. That cracked me up.

Also, do people not remember that ALL of the shit in Diablo 2 that they are spouting about being the best thing ever was not in at the release of D2..... that game have TONS of updates and an expansion pack bigger than most games. Diablo 3 will also have tons of updates and no doubt -at least- one expansion. Don't assume you know everything about a game before it's even been release, it makes you look like a fool.

That cracked me up. Thanks for that.

Based on what I've played and read about Path of Exile and GGG, GGG has more design sense than the entirety of Blizzard's development teams post-WotLK's release in 2008.

#128 Posted by Xeirus (1305 posts) -

Hey man, feel free to come back to this thread when you buy Diablo even while sitting here bitching about it and then come back again when POE comes out and we can talk.

Not to mention the WoW team and the Diablo team aren't even the same people, nice try though? Anyways, I won't sit here and argue with you as I get the sense that's all this thread is about, but like I said lets chat when the games come out, keep reading about POE though I'm sure it'll be great.

#129 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2490 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

Just so we're clear Diablo 3 is or isn't more customizable then Diablo 2?

I've heard it both ways.

#130 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@SonicBoyster said:

@Xeirus:I don't think anybody in here is talking about Diablo 3 in 2022. I think we're all talking about Diablo 3 on release. You know, like, when a person might consider purchasing the game. I think most people aren't willing to put down $60+ in the hopes that the game will end up better in a trilliondy updates, and there's no guarantee Diablo 3 will have the same support as 2. Business models have changed dramatically.

if you have doubts that Blizzard is going to keep updating the game with no end... just don't. SC2 gets an update a month and there's like 10 custom made maps that blizz has released overtime.

@Xeirus said:

Hey man, feel free to come back to this thread when you buy Diablo even while sitting here bitching about it and then come back again when POE comes out and we can talk.

Not to mention the WoW team and the Diablo team aren't even the same people, nice try though? Anyways, I won't sit here and argue with you as I get the sense that's all this thread is about, but like I said lets chat when the games come out, keep reading about POE though I'm sure it'll be great.

I don't really have much faith that POE will be any good but if it is I will def buy it. You however seem to be fixated to a sort of close minded way... so your seriously not going to buy Diablo?... probably the greatest RPG that's ever going to be released, the GB duders will confirm this.

#131 Edited by Crono (2669 posts) -

Yeah in all actuality, Diablo 3's skill system makes it seems like Diablo 2 had no customization... mostly because with Diablo 2 there was only the "illusion of choice" because if you didn't use proven builds that were proven to be viable and/or optimal using spreadsheets then you would have a rough time in Hell difficulty. You couldn't just play around with skills and use the ones you thought were most fun because in the long run that build most likely wouldn't be viable. In Diablo 3 you can experiment without needing to research a builds viability and there are so many combinations that you'll never run out of options. You can make a melee wizard if you want, an AOE barbarian, or a pet-less witch doctor... etc etc. So there is a lot more build diversity and given all of the combinations it will be a lot more difficult to argue that X, Y, or Z build is the most optimal build.

Overall Diablo 3 looks amazing and I can't wait to play it in less than 11 and a half days! :D

#132 Posted by Tennmuerti (8103 posts) -

Man I decided to reinstall Titan Quest today after getting the dungeon crawler munchies after the D3 beta.

And wow... it really really made me apreciate just how far Blizz has moved their own geanre, how purposefully designed, polished, dynamic, fast, everything is. I finished TQ years ago, and yet D3 was way easier to get back into and every mechanic in it to understand while at the same time actually being a deeper more complicated game. I was bored so fast going through the starting areas of TQ, yet played through D3 open beta several times over. It's like the games are on completely seperate planes of quality.

#133 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

Man I decided to reinstall Titan Quest today after getting the dungeon crawler munchies after the D3 beta.

And wow... it really really made me apreciate just how far Blizz has moved their own geanre, how purposefully designed, polished, dynamic, fast, everything is. I finished TQ years ago, and yet D3 was way easier to get back into and every mechanic in it to understand while at the same time actually being a deeper more complicated game. I was bored so fast going through the starting areas of TQ, yet played through D3 open beta several times over. It's like the games are on completely seperate planes of quality.

I did the same thing... and I also got bored VERY quickly... D3 fixed flaws I never even noticed existed. I would love to be in Blizzard team's meetings they probably blow your mind! Its like "What do people like about rpg's? And what do they dislike? How do we add more of the fun stuff and remove the boring stuff?" I def felt that from their Blizzard Dota panel too. I keep thinking now that it doesn't make sense for their to be a kill bar in a team game like that, everyone should be happy if they helped kill someone to the best of their ability and not worry about getting that last. Also the retreat to the tower for more firepower as an imbalance instead of a strategy makes a lot of sense!

#134 Posted by Grillbar (1834 posts) -

@Phatmac said:

Torchlight 2 is better.

have you played both beta's since your stating it as a fact.

i personally think that you cant compare the two. looking forward to both though i will admit my focus right now is Diablo 3

#135 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@Xeirus said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@project343 said:

@The_Laughing_Man: I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. But Path of Exile is an MMO of sorts. You'll walk into a town and see all sorts of other players running around, you can invite them if you want. Then when you go out into the world, it instances everything for you and your party. If you've ever played the original Guild Wars, it's very similar in it's design.

*Edit: I'll clarify that if you want to play the game as a singleplayer experience, there's nothing stopping you. All the content scales to your level/party size when it 'generates' the field/cave/area/castle/whatever. If you want to run around as a summoning-happy witch with 17 minions (I think that's the number I'm at now... 8 skeletons, 6 zombies, 3 spirits... yup, that math checks out) with a crazy berserker, stompy hammer friend of yours... the experience will accommodate your party setup as much as it accommodates whatever insane playstyle you want (I love specializing my way into corpse explosions--skeletons pop so nicely, especially when you got so many of 'em :D).

@Seppli: I'm actually not a fan of the original Diablo games (tried to go back and play them for the first time and were simply too dated for me, but I loved Torchlight and Titan Quest). And I'll say that the restrictive systems in Diablo III are unnerving. Initially (when I got into the beta) you could equip any six (I believe) skills that you wanted. Now, you're forced to choose between very specific sets of attacks: one CC, one defense, etc. (class-dependent). What if I wanted to roll with a particularly offensive character? Or a character who had more than one AoE skill? I was dumbfounded by how limiting the system was prior to the change, but now it's almost appalling. I'll continue to contextualize by saying that I got into the Path of Exile beta about 2 days earlier than my Diablo 3 invite (lucky me, I know), so I had already blown myself away with choice. It just felt like a really limited, simplistic, polished, narrative-driven casual-gamer focused (insofar as it was quickly digestible, not necessarily 'easy') sequel to Diablo 2.

However, when you give players the choice between any hundreds of skills, hundreds of skill modifiers that level up and can be applied in copious ways, a talent tree the size of a forest, and ZERO restrictions on your ability to 'design' your character (all classes can use all equipment, all classes can build in any direction, all classes can use all skills [provided they 'build' to accommodate the equipment/skill stat requirement]), you end up with a game that is overwhelming in all the best ways.

But sure. Diablo 3 will probably be fun from start to finish. And I'll never want to play it again; from what I gather, this notion of playing through a Diablo game like a singleplayer adventure spits on everything that Diablo stood for. I mean, people still play Diablo 2 to this very day--religiously! You think that's due to compelling narrative? Lets be serious for a second, the voice acting is terrible, and the story seems très dull and predictable. But you're forced constantly push it out of your face throughout the entire beta (either by patiently listening to the awful dialogue, or by mashing on the little [x] to make it go away). This isn't what makes action RPGs compelling; I mean, how much story was in Torchlight? Enough to tell you to keep on digging, then it got out of your way. At least those developers know what they're doing, apparently.

I'll stop ranting before I get incoherent... if I'm not incoherent already.

the shitty thing about that massive tree is that... its easy to make mistakes... and what if you change your mind? Actually the even shittier thing compared to Diablo is that I guarantee you in 2-3 months times, somebody would have found the 2-3 best builds and that will be what everyone will be doing. That won't happen with Diablo, all builds will be viable... also its not REALLY restriced in that offensive/ defensive crap, although it appears that way they more or less all have damage abilities and you really can pick full offensive or full aoe abilities.

I'm not going to read the entire thread but what I think is hilarious is that someone thinks Path of Exile is going to be good. That cracked me up.

Also, do people not remember that ALL of the shit in Diablo 2 that they are spouting about being the best thing ever was not in at the release of D2..... that game have TONS of updates and an expansion pack bigger than most games. Diablo 3 will also have tons of updates and no doubt -at least- one expansion. Don't assume you know everything about a game before it's even been release, it makes you look like a fool.

I took my time reading through the talent tree. I've got to say that its litterally a trick for noobs. There are LESS skills in POE than there are in D3, maybe not even counting the runed versions of skills. Not to mention that its annoying to build cookie cutter builds. I was a little more open minded about POE until I read through that... if your letting the sheer size of it distract you are a total noob, its not very hard to make ALOT of stuff to upgrade, its hard to make it meaningful though and how can it be meaningful when its the same shit over and over again but with a different active skill at the end?

#136 Posted by BiG_Weasel (524 posts) -

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

Buying Torchlight II, so built in gold farming, constant online, lack of mods (you will be banned) is not a problem.

This.

#137 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@BiG_Weasel said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

Buying Torchlight II, so built in gold farming, constant online, lack of mods (you will be banned) is not a problem.

This.

That's all fine as long as your okay with inferior gameplay, story, less items, and of course a worse game. Though I will be playing TL2 too.

#138 Edited by BionicMonster (1032 posts) -

@Supermarius: so you're saying that being locked into a spec and having to make new characters just to get variations on that spec is more customizable than being able to re-spec at will? Also, Hardcore character classes will be remade all the time.

#139 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@gamefreak9 said:

I took my time reading through the talent tree. I've got to say that its litterally a trick for noobs. There are LESS skills in POE than there are in D3, maybe not even counting the runed versions of skills. Not to mention that its annoying to build cookie cutter builds. I was a little more open minded about POE until I read through that... if your letting the sheer size of it distract you are a total noob, its not very hard to make ALOT of stuff to upgrade, its hard to make it meaningful though and how can it be meaningful when its the same shit over and over again but with a different active skill at the end?

There are no active skills in that tree. They are all passive buffs.

Fear of cookie-cutter builds seems unfounded, all of the paths loop around so that you're never far from a divergent branch. I think that you can have multiple branches active too, though I haven't tried that myself yet.

Many of the skills repeat (usually grouped on the tree) because you need a whole lot of any given percentage-based buff to make a real difference to your stats. Breaking out a 100% increase into ten separate upgrades allows you to increase a skill enough to qualify for a gem or weapon or armor requirement without having to commit a bunch of skill points to a stat which isn't meaningful to your build.

what? how can they be passive, I assumed it was active(some of them) since enabling you to NEVER crit seems kind of a weird skill and also enabling you to NEVER dodge...

#140 Posted by BiG_Weasel (524 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

@BiG_Weasel said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

Buying Torchlight II, so built in gold farming, constant online, lack of mods (you will be banned) is not a problem.

This.

That's all fine as long as your okay with inferior gameplay, story, less items, and of course a worse game. Though I will be playing TL2 too.

Inferior? I loved TL more than Diablo II. As far as "worse", that's a matter of opinion. Personally, I'm all for the *original* Diablo team's new studio, and at $20, the content is a bargain. This, and I also refuse to give Blizzard any more of my money.

#141 Posted by gamefreak9 (2359 posts) -

@BiG_Weasel said:

@gamefreak9 said:

@BiG_Weasel said:

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

Buying Torchlight II, so built in gold farming, constant online, lack of mods (you will be banned) is not a problem.

This.

That's all fine as long as your okay with inferior gameplay, story, less items, and of course a worse game. Though I will be playing TL2 too.

Inferior? I loved TL more than Diablo II. As far as "worse", that's a matter of opinion. Personally, I'm all for the *original* Diablo team's new studio, and at $20, the content is a bargain. This, and I also refuse to give Blizzard any more of my money.

Hm I might agree with you that TL1 was better than D2... but then compare the years. TL came something like 10 years later? Now talking about games that have the same release date(approx) is a whole other deal.

#142 Posted by project343 (2825 posts) -

@gamefreak9: First, don't call people noobs. Second, you're missing two key aspects of POE's customization that I think sets it apart from DIablo 3: Support Gems, and the lack of a rigid class structure. Any abilities from any discipline can be used by any class. Rather than having 5 restricted groupings of skills (per class), you're left with one giant pool, one giant tree, and one giant set of support gems to modify those skills. While I certainly love the rune system for altering skills to such a remarkable degree, there's still a layer of depth that's missing there when compared to support gems. The slots on gear, the ability to connect one gem to two skills, two gems to one skill, the ability to level up support gems... and the fact that there are probably 30+ support gems that can modify any skill in the game.

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