I don't understand why Blizzard won't make PvP competitive

#1 Posted by Grenadier777 (1 posts) -

It seems they are already spending a ton of time developing arenas... If they put in a bit more effort they could be making so much more money from the RMAH and tournaments

http://www.gentlemensdiablo3.com/2012/05/why-rated-arenas-can-only-benefit.html

I found this link on reddit and the guy seems to make a lot of level-headed arguments on why PvP should be competitive

http://hydramist.tv/diablo-3/blizzard-announcement-for-diablo-pvp-fans-no-e-sport-for-you/

Here's a much more rage-filled entry lol. I don't agree with everything he says but its funny how vehemently he attacks Blizzard.

#2 Edited by Driadon (2995 posts) -

I feel that adding more time to the development of the arena system is actually their dedication to a competitive PVP system. While it's not quite feature #1 like it was for Starcraft II, as such they can launch the game itself now, it's still rather important. I mean, I'm sure they have a lot of arenas done now, just not on the scale and balance as they want for it, and if they were to release what I speculate they have, I'm sure it wouldn't be anywhere near the balance they need it at.

Edit: D'OH! Missed your second link. Bashiok is right to say that making the two different skill systems would be unreasonable. Not only is there game balance issues there, but the user experience he menioned, as well as having to rip through the whole game code and sew it back together as they need it. I still feel that they are still going nuts with the balancing (and, possibly, throwing together specific netcode for it), and that is a large reason why it's going to be added later.

#3 Posted by BionicMonster (1032 posts) -

The reason that WoW and Diablo are never going to be able to have PvP on that level is because it is impossible to balance in loot-driven games.RTS and fighting games lend themselves perfectly to the E-Sports environment because everyone starts the match on an even playing field. Blizzard has said that the classes in Diablo 3 will never be balanced against each other 1v1, it would require them to constantly change the entire class and effect the PvE aspect of the game.

#4 Posted by RedRavN (397 posts) -

@BionicMonster: The solution to that is to keep the PvE and PvP completely seperate. Ideally, everyone would be on an even footing in the PVP arena. You should get cosmetic or presitge items for winning but nothing that makes you stronger. It seems crazy to me that blizzard is not interested in the e-sports scene especially considering the massive hit that starcraft 2 has become because of its competetive scene. They already have a working ladder system ready to go. Its just a baffling decision from a business perspective.

#5 Posted by Tennmuerti (7956 posts) -

Because competitive PvP unlike casual PvP requires balance.

Sadly that second post you linked is someone talking out of their ass. It is not as simple as changing some numbers on some skills. Blizzard has had a continuous nightmare trying to balance WoW gear/classes/abilities/talents etc for both PvE and PvP. The effort of just making sure one is somewhat balanced is not tough, doing a balancing act with both is a task that requires several orders of magnitude more effort. This monumental effort is justified in WoW because a huge amount of people are constantly paying Blizz on a monthly basis allowing for large teams having full time jobs balancing that cesspool. No such thing with D3. So they decided to focus their efforts on the PvE aspect of the game instead of half assing both.

The arena is still going to be there for people to (casual) PvP in when they want to, again that second post says how awesome and important PvP was in D2 and why people got gear, funny that D2 didn't have a proper competitive PvP either.

#6 Posted by Grimluck343 (1146 posts) -

@RedRavN said:

It seems crazy to me that blizzard is not interested in the e-sports scene especially considering the massive hit that starcraft 2 has become because of its competetive scene.

They already have StarCraft 2 for e-sports, why try to add Diablo 3 to that? It actually makes perfect business sense for them. D3 is the game that you play solo/co-op, StarCraft is the competitive multiplayer game and WoW is their MMO. In essence, each of those three games in going to appeal to everybody.

Keeping the focus off of PvP allows them to do crazier things with their loot system that just wouldn't work in competitive PvP setting, i.e. crazy crowd control and damage enhancing abilities that could be seen as "unfair" to people who are just unlucky with drops. PvP would have a much greater emphasis on gear rather than skill which is the exact opposite of what anyone wants. You could argue that they could force PvP to fight only in some sort of default "PvP set" where everyone's stats are equal but then what's the point? You have a loot driven game with PvP that ignores loot which isn't all that much fun either. I think they've made the right choice here.

#7 Posted by StarvingGamer (7911 posts) -

Because that's not the game they are trying to make.

#8 Posted by Veektarius (4540 posts) -

I can't see how Diablo would work as a PvP game that wouldn't already be covered by DoTA clones, unless it's people who just want to dominate in their godly gear.. which is really only a fun experience for half of the people involved in the fight.

#9 Posted by buft (3300 posts) -

PVP in arenas has never been my thing, i enjoy WOW for its PVE but anythime i made the step into the the PVP side of things the game degenerates into a cesspool of smack talk and obnoxiousness and thats just my team, i cant even speak to the other team. Its not for me and the option will eventually be there for you if you are into that kinda thing and i bet other sites will run ladders.

#10 Posted by Teran (877 posts) -

@Grenadier777 said:

It seems they are already spending a ton of time developing arenas... If they put in a bit more effort they could be making so much more money from the RMAH and tournaments

http://www.gentlemensdiablo3.com/2012/05/why-rated-arenas-can-only-benefit.html

I found this link on reddit and the guy seems to make a lot of level-headed arguments on why PvP should be competitive

Not a bad read, but I don't think it's necessary. WoW did not launch with arenas or even battlegrounds... the battlegrounds were a planned implementation, but I don't think rated arenas were even on the table at the time. Even if they did have rated arenas on the table for implementation it's probably good that they waited. I think Blizzard's primary concern in Diablo 3 should be pve game balance first but while they are working towards this goal they keep an eye on the unrated pvp that does happen so they have more information for when the time to implement comes in a future content patch.

In short, if their Diablo 3 fanbase wants rated arenas like their WoW fanbase did, then we'll get them.

#11 Posted by Jumbs (233 posts) -

Have you ever played wow? Trying to balance skills for both PVE and PVP pretty much ruined all the fun skills from PVE.

#12 Posted by emem (1960 posts) -

If I had to guess... extra work that doesn't earn enough extra money.

#13 Posted by NaDannMaGoGo (338 posts) -

@Jumbs said:

Have you ever played wow? Trying to balance skills for both PVE and PVP pretty much ruined all the fun skills from PVE.

Yeh that's it.

Also, the moment they tell people that they want competitive PvP the floodgates of "imbalance" whine and similar stuff get stomped open.

The extra amount of support you'd have to put in for that is insane. If we're talking about really balance, you won't only have to change skills completely, you'd probably also have to change some of the very basic game mechanics.

And why do that? Diablo 3 isn't a very good fit for a good PvP game. So they shouldn't focus on that.

#14 Posted by Neferon (262 posts) -

A competitive RPG seems like comflict of interests.

RPG create imbalance due to the difference of items.

Fun competitive play requires that all players are on even footing.

I am all for one big unfair (Hopefully in my advantage ;) ) PvP hackfest though!

#15 Posted by NobodyHIFI (96 posts) -

Because D2 wasn't competitive either. W

#16 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -

@BionicMonster said:

The reason that WoW and Diablo are never going to be able to have PvP on that level is because it is impossible to balance in loot-driven games.RTS and fighting games lend themselves perfectly to the E-Sports environment because everyone starts the match on an even playing field. Blizzard has said that the classes in Diablo 3 will never be balanced against each other 1v1, it would require them to constantly change the entire class and effect the PvE aspect of the game.

GW2 gets around those issues by giving people PVP toons in PVP areas. Diablo 3 could offer that too and it has older, more expansive lore to draw from.

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