In Defense of Blizzard

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#1 Posted by leftystarman (28 posts) -

I'm sure everyone's heard the news by now, that Diablo III is going to require an internet-connection for all play, a real money auction house, and no mods. I'm not super happy about any of these, but I feel like some rationalization is in order.
 
1. Internet Connection is required for play. Obviously, this is one of the most demonized things in pc gaming right now, and if someone even hints at it, people start yelling. But think about it. I'm going to play a shit ton of Diablo single-player, but also a shit ton of multi-player. I'd imagine what went through their heads is, well millions of people are going to be playing this game on battle.net anyway, so what difference does it make? Those people would be playing single-player too, but I'd imagine most people would play single-player and multi-player in one gaming session, so it does make sense, at least to me. 
2. Real Cash Auction House. Well this one is simple. If you don't want to look at the filthy philistines who would pay real money for fantasy swords and runes, then don't. You don't have to use this feature. 
3. No Mods. I'll admit, this one kind of sucks. But, look at Blizzards past history with mods. Mods were huge in the success of Warcraft III, what with DOTA and the myriad of different levels and campaigns, and mods have been a very interesting part of World of Warcraft. But look at the past mod history of Diablo I and II. How many different mods for those games can you name? I myself, can't name any ( but I wasn't a huge Diablo player.) But blocking the feature out entirely, really doesn't make that much sense.

#2 Edited by Khann (2830 posts) -

Your first two points are stupid.

I somewhat agree with the third.

#3 Posted by SgtGrumbles (1024 posts) -

I wouldn't want you as my defence lawyer…

#4 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@leftystarman said:
 3. No Mods. I'll admit, this one kind of sucks. 
Good point, Im convinced.
#5 Posted by Rhaknar (5939 posts) -

i still dont get the big fuss about always-online drm, but maybe thats because im...always online >_>

#6 Posted by Vinny_Says (5700 posts) -

When AC2 does it a shitstorm ensues but when blizzard does it's defensible? 
 
 
 
 
talk about double standards

#7 Edited by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

Ugh, there's nothing worse than "in defense of blizzard" threads

#8 Posted by CrossTheAtlantic (1145 posts) -
@blacklabeldomm:  
Yup. If, say, Torchlight 2 were to do the same thing before this info came out, you could be certain even people who never played the games would be raging and bitching about it.
#9 Edited by SethPhotopoulos (5226 posts) -

1. If your playing Diablo 3 I bet your playing on a desk top so the only reason I see this sucking is if your connection absolutely sucks.
2. Don't do the auction then.
3. That sucks.

#10 Edited by Three0neFive (2289 posts) -
@blacklabeldomm said:

When AC2 does it a shitstorm ensues but when blizzard does it's defensible?       talk about double standards

Pretty much. Shouldn't be surprising, though, the gaming community is full of bullshit like this.
 
"Waaah Call of Duty is the same thing every year, Kotick is the ultimate evil blah blah map packs... MW3? All my friends play it so I'll still get it lol"
"Preorder bonuses and Gamestop are ruining the industry arglblargle... Exclusive hats? SIGN ME THE FUCK UP."
#11 Posted by ChickenPants (934 posts) -

Just because the Diablo mod scene didn't spawn any mods as famous as DOTA doesn't meant it was insignificant. How many mods can you name for other games? Diablo has several great mods - Median and Eastern Sun basically changed the whole game content - skills, loot etc.
 
You do admit that you weren't a ''huge Diablo player'', I'm guessing your lack of understanding of the game is the reason your points are so asinine.

#12 Posted by Simmse (135 posts) -

The online thing always kinda sucks but it doesn't really matter to me and i imagine the majority of people because i'm always playing with an internet connection that isn't shit.
 
I just hope that the items bought with real money are somehow distinguishable from normal items whether it be stats or something about the appearance or name.  Maybe they will all have the prefix "of cheapness" or sword of real money lameness.
 
Not having mods in a PC is always frowned upon.

#13 Posted by desolation15 (113 posts) -

 1. 2. 3.
 ^^
 I'm okay with this under one condition: (statement contains profanity) The game is hack free and hackers will be actively hunted and banned. Not like VAC once in a blue moon bust. I mean a QA taskforce of nerds that work around the clock to ensure the integrity of this game. Fucking.

#14 Posted by sreya92 (193 posts) -
@leftystarman: Your first point doesn't justify the fact that if your internet connection drops (and it will I will bet my bank account on it, it will happen sometime at least once) you will be automatically kicked from the game. Apparently for hardcore players this means your character is done. Get ready to start anew
#15 Edited by LordXavierBritish (6320 posts) -

The online is bull shit.

I understand the auction house though, people are going to be selling shit anyway so you might as well give them a safe platform to use.

And yeah, I don't really care about mods for Diablo.

#16 Posted by RandomInternetUser (6789 posts) -

Always be interneting is not a huge problem for me, but it is fucking annoying.  This is the type of game I would love to play when I can't be on a multiplayer game or on forums because the internet is out.  I love playing LAN games with my brother when the net is out.  Very annoying.
 
Real-money auction house goes against everything they believed in about the in-game economy in WoW.  Buying items with real cash makes the rich have an unfair advantage and disrupts the in-game economy.  Though, unless I'm mistaken, this could still be only for cosmetic items, but I assume not.
 
No mods sucks, but I can live with that, as the only games I've modded are WoW and single player RPGs and some older games to spice them up.

#17 Posted by ajamafalous (11957 posts) -

I feel like the people that are against the auction house thing didn't play much/any Diablo II. As someone who played well over 1000 hours from 2001 to 2008 (and have even played it for a few weeks at least once a year since), giving people the option to sell items for money in-game is the smartest thing in the world. Real money item selling literally destroyed the economy of Diablo II. I could link you to 10 or 15 different sites right now that sell Diablo II items. I have many friends that spent anywhere from $30 to $75 buying D2 items. Blizzard is effectively cutting this off at the pass and not allowing the economy to be ravaged by farming sites, assuming they handle it well.

Always-on internet sucks because even though most people are always connected to the internet, that doesn't mean connections don't drop and internet doesn't go out.

No mods sucks too, but then again Diablo wasn't exactly a haven for great mods; that's always been WC3's (and to a lesser extent SC's) thing.

#18 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@ajamafalous said:

I feel like the people that are against the auction house thing didn't play much/any Diablo II. As someone who played well over 1000 hours from 2001 to 2008 (and have even played it for a few weeks at least once a year since), giving people the option to sell items for money in-game is the smartest thing in the world. Real money item selling literally destroyed the economy of Diablo II. I could link you to 10 or 15 different sites right now that sell Diablo II items. I have many friends that spent anywhere from $30 to $75 buying D2 items. Blizzard is effectively cutting this off at the pass and not allowing the economy to be ravaged by farming sites, assuming they handle it well.

Always-on internet sucks because even though most people are always connected to the internet, that doesn't mean connections don't drop and internet doesn't go out.

No mods sucks too, but then again Diablo wasn't exactly a haven for great mods; that's always been WC3's (and to a lesser extent SC's) thing.

I don't see how the developer getting in on the take cuts anything. It just makes it more prominent. Please, explain how this doesn't destroy the economy because Blizzard's on the take now. I would love to read that gold chrome polished bit of bullshit. People will do it more often now that its being encouraged and PvP will become a joke.
#19 Posted by Stete (730 posts) -

1. Have they specified if it requires a constant internet connection yet? If every time your connection drops and you get booted out of your game then that would be a definite game breaker for me.

2. The problem here is that Blizzard would be inclined to make all the epic loot drop rates ridiculously low so that it would be damn near impossible to get some decent gear without shelling out some extra cash.

3. Personally I never cared for the Diablo 2 mods, so I dont think I give too much of a damn for Diablo 3 mods as well. But still, im pretty sure there are gonna be mods, Diablo 2 didnt have any official editing tools yet people still made mods for this. To be honest I wouldnt be suprised if people started hacking away start making private servers for this as they did for WoW.

#20 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5140 posts) -

There is no need to defend them, they are big enough company that they can do almost anything they want and people would have to accept it.

Anyway I don't think anyone is really attacking them.

#21 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -
@xobballox said:
 Buying items with real cash makes the rich have an unfair advantage and disrupts the in-game economy.  Though, unless I'm mistaken, this could still be only for cosmetic items, but I assume not. 
The auction house is player driven. So I doubt people would just want to sell their epic loot items unless it was something like retiring a character. Some rich mofo cannot just buy all epic sets on day one since somebody out there has to get them first. So in game economy will be just fine. This is really the same thing as legalizing it, so they can get a cut of teh action. No more being worried if your going to get ripped off, no more worrying if selling your shit is against the TOS. Best of all, when the time comes that you feel like retiring your character, you can actually get some money for it. I don't see why people are upset over this. 
#22 Posted by imsh_pl (3295 posts) -

Nobody made a "In Defense of Ubisoft" back when AC II's DRM was announced.
 
How is this different?

#23 Posted by AlexW00d (6234 posts) -

@imsh_pl said:

Nobody made a "In Defense of Ubisoft" back when AC II's DRM was announced. How is this different?

Because the only reason isn't to stop piracy; but you'd know that if you had read any of the numerous articles about it.

#24 Posted by Arabes (338 posts) -
@StaticFalconar said:
@xobballox said:
 Buying items with real cash makes the rich have an unfair advantage and disrupts the in-game economy.  Though, unless I'm mistaken, this could still be only for cosmetic items, but I assume not. 
The auction house is player driven. So I doubt people would just want to sell their epic loot items unless it was something like retiring a character. Some rich mofo cannot just buy all epic sets on day one since somebody out there has to get them first. So in game economy will be just fine. This is really the same thing as legalizing it, so they can get a cut of teh action. No more being worried if your going to get ripped off, no more worrying if selling your shit is against the TOS. Best of all, when the time comes that you feel like retiring your character, you can actually get some money for it. I don't see why people are upset over this. 
 
The one problem that I see with what your saying is that it assumes that Blizzard won't sell items directly through the auction house. Ok, they say its player driven now but I'd be very surprised to see a revenue stream like that get ignored. The other problem with their system is that you get taxed twice if you want actual cash which seems like bull shit. Blizzard taxes you on every transaction - fair enough, but when you cash out its handled by a third party who also take their cut, so selling characters that you retire might not be that profitable, depending on how they implement the system.
#25 Posted by VicRattlehead (1398 posts) -

@StaticFalconar: i don't think people quite understand that it's all player driven and instead think its blizzard selling the items

#26 Posted by Arabes (338 posts) -

I know blizzard have claimed that it will be all player driven but I don't think they'll be able to resist selling top gear for too long.

#27 Posted by dudeglove (7738 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

I feel like the people that are against the auction house thing didn't play much/any Diablo II. As someone who played well over 1000 hours from 2001 to 2008 (and have even played it for a few weeks at least once a year since), giving people the option to sell items for money in-game is the smartest thing in the world. Real money item selling literally destroyed the economy of Diablo II. I could link you to 10 or 15 different sites right now that sell Diablo II items. I have many friends that spent anywhere from $30 to $75 buying D2 items. Blizzard is effectively cutting this off at the pass and not allowing the economy to be ravaged by farming sites, assuming they handle it well.

Always-on internet sucks because even though most people are always connected to the internet, that doesn't mean connections don't drop and internet doesn't go out.

No mods sucks too, but then again Diablo wasn't exactly a haven for great mods; that's always been WC3's (and to a lesser extent SC's) thing.

I can't help but feel that the new auction house system will only serve to legitimize the farmers, and that Blizzard will be taking a cut of their profits. I mean, if you can't beat 'em...

But the idea that they may officially be selling power (oh but there will be a level cap on all items! Yeah? No shit, the same went for D2) is just the absolute worst. It's not like TF2 where the weapons are (sort of) balanced.

#28 Posted by Laksa (240 posts) -

expect the auction house to be filled with players  with names such as "wo-ai-qian111" "wo-ai-qian222" "haoduoqian111" haoduoqian222"
"benyangren1" benyangren2"
 
wait a month after the game is released, buy all the top tier items for your char in that patch.Start farming for top tier gear for other chars.
once you get all the top tier gear, farm for more so you can place them on the auction house. Repeat as patches are released.
 
i predict there to be more item sellers than actual players   in game on release day.

#29 Posted by Bigrhyno (505 posts) -

I don't feel the need to defend Blizzard but I also don't care about any of this. These are my opinions on these issues.

1. I don't plan on playing Diablo anywhere other than my desktop. Don't give a shit.

2. Love this idea. Hopefully I can get a decent chunk of change from this game.

3. I wouldn't expect any mods to be that great anyway. I know some people go crazy over mods, but I haven't played a mod I really liked in over 5 years.

#30 Posted by Veektarius (4763 posts) -

I'll buy it if they ever release it. 

#31 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2684 posts) -

@blacklabeldomm said:

When AC2 does it a shitstorm ensues but when blizzard does it's defensible? talk about double standards

AC2's didn't work. It disabled the game even for lots of people who owned legal copies and were online. Ubi's DRM was disastrous.

If Diablo III's DRM actually works, who gives a shit? I still don't buy the guy on a bus with a laptop and no data connection argument. 99.9% of people are going to play D3 at home on a desktop or laptop. If you don't have internet there, consider relocating. You have bigger problems than DRM.

#32 Posted by Boiglenoight (531 posts) -

1. Wanted to play Final Fight: Double Impact while PSN was down forever. Guess what, I couldn't! Because it requires an Internet connection to play. So what! I have tons of other games to play that didn't require one.

*Fast forward to dystopian future where all single-player games require an Internet connection*

Crap! My Internet's going to be out for several days due to construction in my area (true story, actually lasted months, had to switch from cable to dsl). Crap! I can't play any of my games!

2. Sounds sleazy but ultimately I would never participate with real money. Seems lame and flies in the face of playing the game to discover new items.

3. Understandable if implementing mod support would be difficult and push the game back several months. Otherwise, it shows Blizzard doesn't care about the mod community.

#33 Posted by ikwal (225 posts) -

People on forums just love to make a big deal out of things that does not matter.

#34 Posted by PenguinDust (12491 posts) -

I don't like any of the changes but there are other games out there to appease my desires for mods (thank you Bethesda) and I doubt I'll play the game enough that auction house shenanigans become a problem.  I don't like having to be logged in to play the game, but I'm used to it with Steam these days.  What it all comes down to is I don't like any of the new modifications, but that doesn't mean I can't tolerate them.

#35 Posted by Cataphract1014 (1313 posts) -
@AlexW00d said:

@imsh_pl said:

Nobody made a "In Defense of Ubisoft" back when AC II's DRM was announced. How is this different?

Because the only reason isn't to stop piracy; but you'd know that if you had read any of the numerous articles about it.

Blizzard isn't Ubisoft.  I am completely biased.  I love assassin's creed, but I also didn't buy it for the PC.  I have owned every blizzard game and expansion since warcraft 2.  They would have to do some really fucked up shit to lose me as a customer.
#36 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -
@Arabes said:
@StaticFalconar said:
@xobballox said:
 Buying items with real cash makes the rich have an unfair advantage and disrupts the in-game economy.  Though, unless I'm mistaken, this could still be only for cosmetic items, but I assume not. 
The auction house is player driven. So I doubt people would just want to sell their epic loot items unless it was something like retiring a character. Some rich mofo cannot just buy all epic sets on day one since somebody out there has to get them first. So in game economy will be just fine. This is really the same thing as legalizing it, so they can get a cut of teh action. No more being worried if your going to get ripped off, no more worrying if selling your shit is against the TOS. Best of all, when the time comes that you feel like retiring your character, you can actually get some money for it. I don't see why people are upset over this. 
 The one problem that I see with what your saying is that it assumes that Blizzard won't sell items directly through the auction house. Ok, they say its player driven now but I'd be very surprised to see a revenue stream like that get ignored. The other problem with their system is that you get taxed twice if you want actual cash which seems like bull shit. Blizzard taxes you on every transaction - fair enough, but when you cash out its handled by a third party who also take their cut, so selling characters that you retire might not be that profitable, depending on how they implement the system.
I don't think you understand how powerful the system of taxation is. Blizzard is going to make a buttload of money from taxing the auctions that they will not be duping epic loots for a little extra cash. I can maybe see some rogue Blizzard worker that plays the game religiously may start some scandal, but shit like that would have happened without the auction system. Blizzard ain't dumb and know if they try to "cash in" selling themselves through the auction, they will wreck their own economy. If a bunch of random trolls hating on them can point this out, they are smart enough to realize this too. So whats your only other reason to hate on them? Ohh the taxes will cut in an any profits. Seeing as selling gear for real money right now is a shady business that is against the TOS, having a legal way to get some money out of retiring a character is already more than you ever had before. Of course its not supposed to be profitable to stop the farmers. When I sold my WOW character (because I was quitting the game), I had all epic gear at the time, and only got about 500 bucks. But seeing as my playtime was 250 hours at the time, it of course was not profitable even on the black market. But guess what, I wasn't looking for a profit, since I was selling something what was worth nothing to me at the time. Gold/Gear farmers may care about the profits, but thats why taxation hinders them since its those people that actually wreck game economies. 
#37 Posted by StarvingGamer (8134 posts) -
@ryanwho Well from the beginning Blizz has said they have no plans to balance PvP in any way so this just goes along with that philosophy.

As far as helping with the issue of item farmers, what this does is blow the door wide open on the item selling market. With games like DII and WoW the farmers were able to control prices because they were the only ones doing it. What this real money AH does is make it so that any Tom, Dick or Harry can sell their items online legally which will flood the market and drastically reduce prices. As a result, item farming is likely to rapidly become unprofitable for any would-be DIII farmers.
#38 Edited by opp (39 posts) -

The thing is... You kinda have to use the real money AH if you want to buy something. Because if somebody gets some rare loot and wants to sell it, which AH do think they'll use.
#39 Posted by Zithe (1045 posts) -

@opp said:

The thing is... You kinda have to use the real money AH if you want to buy something. Because if somebody gets some rare loot and wants to sell it, which AH do think they'll use.

I think it depends on the auction house performance. Imagine this: You find a sword you want to sell, you pay the fee to put it on the RMT auction house for $3.00, someone else swoops in and puts the sword up for $2.99 or $2.50. People buy the cheaper ones and your auction runs out without selling. You just lost a small bit of real money because of the listing fee. Doesn't look so appealing now does it?

We will have to wait until the game is released to see how this actually performs.

#40 Posted by Arabes (338 posts) -
@StaticFalconar said:
@Arabes said:
@StaticFalconar said:
@xobballox said:
 Buying items with real cash makes the rich have an unfair advantage and disrupts the in-game economy.  Though, unless I'm mistaken, this could still be only for cosmetic items, but I assume not. 
The auction house is player driven. So I doubt people would just want to sell their epic loot items unless it was something like retiring a character. Some rich mofo cannot just buy all epic sets on day one since somebody out there has to get them first. So in game economy will be just fine. This is really the same thing as legalizing it, so they can get a cut of teh action. No more being worried if your going to get ripped off, no more worrying if selling your shit is against the TOS. Best of all, when the time comes that you feel like retiring your character, you can actually get some money for it. I don't see why people are upset over this. 
 The one problem that I see with what your saying is that it assumes that Blizzard won't sell items directly through the auction house. Ok, they say its player driven now but I'd be very surprised to see a revenue stream like that get ignored. The other problem with their system is that you get taxed twice if you want actual cash which seems like bull shit. Blizzard taxes you on every transaction - fair enough, but when you cash out its handled by a third party who also take their cut, so selling characters that you retire might not be that profitable, depending on how they implement the system.
I don't think you understand how powerful the system of taxation is. Blizzard is going to make a buttload of money from taxing the auctions that they will not be duping epic loots for a little extra cash. I can maybe see some rogue Blizzard worker that plays the game religiously may start some scandal, but shit like that would have happened without the auction system. Blizzard ain't dumb and know if they try to "cash in" selling themselves through the auction, they will wreck their own economy. If a bunch of random trolls hating on them can point this out, they are smart enough to realize this too. So whats your only other reason to hate on them? Ohh the taxes will cut in an any profits. Seeing as selling gear for real money right now is a shady business that is against the TOS, having a legal way to get some money out of retiring a character is already more than you ever had before. Of course its not supposed to be profitable to stop the farmers. When I sold my WOW character (because I was quitting the game), I had all epic gear at the time, and only got about 500 bucks. But seeing as my playtime was 250 hours at the time, it of course was not profitable even on the black market. But guess what, I wasn't looking for a profit, since I was selling something what was worth nothing to me at the time. Gold/Gear farmers may care about the profits, but thats why taxation hinders them since its those people that actually wreck game economies. 
 
"'I'm not hating on them kid, I have concerns about the systems they're implementing and I hate the idea of games using real money. I also don't like of having to be connected  to the net constantly to play (what happens if my connection goes down for a sec as it is prone to do?). I'm just dubious, that's healthy.
#41 Posted by C2C (855 posts) -

There are subtler ways for apologists to to make these type of of threads without going into a "In defense of..." thread.

In all reality though this doesn't affect me too much except for 1 because, lets face it, everybody has internet issues at some point. Never got into the mod scene, and I don't think the for profit auction house will enhance or detract the game for me.

#42 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -
@Arabes said:
 I'm just dubious, that's healthy.
Really? Cause from what you wrote, you seemed to be a little kid getting ready to walk around with a cardboard saying "the end is near". 
#43 Posted by Arabes (338 posts) -
@StaticFalconar said:
@Arabes said:
 I'm just dubious, that's healthy.
Really? Cause from what you wrote, you seemed to be a little kid getting ready to walk around with a cardboard saying "the end is near". 
 
Well then maybe you should read what's there and ease off on the hyperbole. You shouldn't interpret misgivings as an attack.
#44 Posted by Tebbit (4460 posts) -

The always-online nature of Starcraft 2 failed to be of any concern to me, and I've played a lot of it. For those few times where my internet was doing something weird and I couldn't log on, and it was the worst thing ever, but 99% of the time it was fine.

#45 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -
@StarvingGamer said:
@ryanwho Well from the beginning Blizz has said they have no plans to balance PvP in any way so this just goes along with that philosophy.
There's a difference between not being concerned about balance and actively seeking to make something unplayably imbalanced.
#46 Posted by Fripplebubby (1027 posts) -

In defense of Blizzard, they make great games and you're still going to buy it.  
 
Also, the real money auction house is just legalizing and standardizing something that would happen anyway. Think of it like legalizing pot. 

#47 Posted by zels (206 posts) -
@leftystarman: 1. They do it hoping to curb piracy but the end result will be as always - it'll fuck over legitimate users. There is NO other reason to have that in the game. 
2. Buying power is never good in an online game that has PvP. 
3. Look at SC2 modding community. If you think that there's no potential there for mods, you're gravely mistaken. Why did they do it - so that they could control the market and be able to charge for every single new thing released. It's directly linked to the new market system. I mean, less people would buy BZ's stuff if there are free modifications available out there. 
 
I might be wrong on the last point (as far as reasoning goes anyway), but I'm pretty sure about 1 and 2.
#48 Posted by Turambar (6732 posts) -

There are two ways the AH thing can go in the shitter.  If Blizzard themselves start selling things for cash in there, or if they do not force all items to have both an in game currency price and a real money price.  As long as the former does not happen and all items are still available for in game currency in some way, it should not be an immense issue.   
 
As for the Always Online DRM, given the existence of the AH, its existence is completely justified.  There is simply no two ways around it.  The only thing to critique would be if they went the route of Ubisoft, and let any short disconnection of mere seconds boot you from the game, even when playing single player.
 
No mod support sucks.  Period.

#49 Posted by ChillyUK7 (283 posts) -

My internet connection aint exactly the best so on top of all the problems ou can have with PC games (wrong driver/patch/software whatever) I now have to contend with my single player game cutting out because my internet connection...cut out. I also feel bad for people who would like to play the game on the go with laptops.
#50 Posted by awe_stuck (800 posts) -

I dont know. Have you seen the screenshots of Diablo 3? I'm more worried about the fact the game looks boring and washed out.
 
I would probably buy it off Steam anyway - the horror!!! Seriously, though if it required internet connection and I bought it at a store, I'd be pissed. 
 
No mods is dumb, but this was probably done to eliminate all the mods that help you get gear and what not (you know autoscripts..). So, makes sense.
 
If good items are hard to get, then Auction House is lame (think TF2 lame, cus I hate how a lot of good items are hard to get - Croc Sniper Armor...).

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