Rock, Paper, Shotgun and Haterade

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#1 Posted by Jrinswand (1704 posts) -

I was just checking RPS (as I have begun to do in the last two weeks or so) and I came across this article, which, essentially, bitches endlessly and in a condescending tone about everything that the author thinks is wrong with Diablo 3. I understand that he has had some issues and I understand that it is all personal opinion but if you browse through the rest of the site, you'll be hard-pressed to find anything positive said about the game at all. Even the things that seem to be positive at first glance are either neutral or backhanded compliments.
 
Now, I only started reading RPS recently, so I don't know if this sort of snobbishness is a common phenomenon or if the site just really hates Diablo 3. Does anybody have any insight on this? What do you guys think of RPS?

#2 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

Just like with Mass Effect 3 when such a popular game with a big hype behind messes up in something the collective hivemind of the internet is gonna make sure that you know why they hate it ... oh and anything that has "Diablo 3" on any website right now is gonna bring dem clicks if it is negative even more, I think people should care if the game satisfies you not some score or some writter's opinion.

#3 Posted by SlasherMan (1725 posts) -

I see nothing wrong with what he's saying. How is it in any way condescending, snobbish or bitchy?

I think RPS is great. Always have something great to read.

#4 Posted by AlexW00d (6239 posts) -

@Jrinswand: RPS are the most genuine videogame website I know of. They always say things how they think, regardless of if it lines up with popular opinion or not. Whilst the writers do definitely have their own 'style' which can be pretty sarcastic, I really do think you're reading too much into it if you think they're being snobby.

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#5 Posted by JM12088 (40 posts) -

I think hatred is the wrong word.

#6 Posted by Bocam (3722 posts) -

@Jrinswand: Why do you care?

#7 Posted by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

other that the obvious internet connection complaints this guys biggest beef seems to be how little they have change Diablo's formula. but i bet if they had changed it the guy would be bitching about how much it has changed and how its no longer diablo and how they have pissed in fans mouths.

#8 Posted by Jrinswand (1704 posts) -
@AngelN7: I don't really care about the writer's opinion. I guess I was just confused about the website's approach to writing. For example, is it to provide balanced arguments and allow the readers to come to their own conclusions or is it to say whatever the authors think, consequences be damned?
 
@SlasherMan: @AlexW00d: I really don't want to dissect the article and look for clues of tone, as a writer's tone can be difficult to pin down, but there definitely are areas that come off as snarky and condescending. I really don't think I'm reading into it too much. I don't have any preconceived notions about RPS, so I was coming to the website with a clean slate, so to speak.
#9 Posted by Kieran_ES (258 posts) -

I'm a huge fan of RPS and have followed the writers for ages so take this as you will.

I don't think RPS has any obligation to write nice things about Diablo 3, especially since RPS, more than pretty much every other site, is based entirely around the tastes of just the current writers (something they're open about). I also think John Walker's specific arguments against the game are perfectly valid. That said, he did a 'first three hours' piece a little while ago that was fairly positive/optimistic about the game. His subsequent experience has apparently lowered his opinion.

I don't understand how you got to snobbishness really.

#10 Posted by JoeyRavn (4969 posts) -

@AngelN7 said:

Just like with Mass Effect 3 when such a popular game with a big hype behind messes up in something the collective hivemind of the internet is gonna make sure that you know why they hate it ... oh and anything that has "Diablo 3" on any website right now is gonna bring dem clicks if it is negative even more, I think people should care if the game satisfies you not some score or some writter's opinion.

Pretty much this. Not that Diablo III is flawless, but just look at comments like this one:

Caved, bought a spare copy from a friend (moral victory yay!) last night and gave it a play until the end of the first quest. Path of Exile is better, Diablo 3 has niggly issues that really pissed me off. My opinion that the game is trading on the franchise name is undiminished.

Played the first quest, so an MMO is better? The Internet is beyond redemption.

#11 Posted by AlexW00d (6239 posts) -

@JoeyRavn said:

Caved, bought a spare copy from a friend (moral victory yay!) last night and gave it a play until the end of the first quest. Path of Exile is better, Diablo 3 has niggly issues that really pissed me off. My opinion that the game is trading on the franchise name is undiminished.

Played the first quest, so an MMO is better? The Internet is beyond redemption.

Um, you realise that Path of Exile is a Diablo-clone don't you? Not an MMO. Just like Torchlight.

@Jrinswand: I just think he was annoyed that the game is nothing more than more Diablo 2. Based on previous articles on it anyway.

@Bell_End said:

other that the obvious internet connection complaints this guys biggest beef seems to be how little they have change Diablo's formula. but i bet if they had changed it the guy would be bitching about how much it has changed and how its no longer diablo and how they have pissed in fans mouths.

Dude, you're an idiot.

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#12 Posted by SpaceJamLunchbox (127 posts) -

Why are you reading reviews and articles if you don't care about the writer's opinion?

#13 Edited by SlasherMan (1725 posts) -

@JoeyRavn: Path of Exile is an MMO in the same way that Diablo 3 is... which is to say it isn't...

@Jrinswand said:

I guess I was just confused about the website's approach to writing. For example, is it to provide balanced arguments and allow the readers to come to their own conclusions or is it to say whatever the authors think, consequences be damned?

I'm struggling to understand how you're not allowed to come to your own conclusions either way.

Whatever the case, I've been frequenting RPS for the past 2 years, they're one of the sites that I absolutely trust to give me their honest opinions about a game. Whether I would agree with them or not is entirely irrelevant. Much like GB, that site is dependent upon the writers' characters, their likes and dislikes, etc. If you know your tastes don't align with a certain writer, you know you're most likely not going to agree with him on whatever else he might express his opinion on. Their articles involve a lot of their opinions and experiences with whatever game they're covering, and you can always bet they'll give you their honest opinion. What you do with that is entirely up to you.

#14 Posted by Binman88 (3686 posts) -

@Bell_End said:

i bet if they had changed it the guy would be bitching about how much it has changed and how its no longer diablo and how they have pissed in fans mouths.

Having read plenty of Walker's stuff in the past, I simply don't think that would be his style. He is saying what he thinks and, as a PC focused site, surely he'd want nothing more than to be able to gush about this PC exclusive game in order to champion the platform. But he can't, because he doesn't think it's that special. What's wrong with that?

And I'd have to agree with him. I am loving the game, but I'm loving it because I like the loot and addictive gameplay. The game is incredibly pretty and polished, but it doesn't really do anything that hasn't been done before. It doesn't have any extra layers of depth or additional innovative mechanics. After 12 years or so, it feels very much like the old Diablo games, and that's ok, but it also makes it somewhat of a "hollow" game, as Walker's article suggests. Although I'm likely to put countless hours into this game, at this point in time I would have to say I preferred my time with Titan Quest.

@Jrinswand said:

@AngelN7: I don't really care about the writer's opinion. I guess I was just confused about the website's approach to writing. For example, is it to provide balanced arguments and allow the readers to come to their own conclusions or is it to say whatever the authors think, consequences be damned?

What is unbalanced about the article? Surely the only opinion he can give is his, based on his own experiences with the game. And what consequences? I'm confused about what you think the purpose of an article like this is.

@Jrinswand said:

@SlasherMan: @AlexW00d: I really don't want to dissect the article and look for clues of tone, as a writer's tone can be difficult to pin down, but there definitely are areas that come off as snarky and condescending. I really don't think I'm reading into it too much. I don't have any preconceived notions about RPS, so I was coming to the website with a clean slate, so to speak.

I also read it and can't find any snark or condescension, so yeah, you'd be best actually pointing that stuff out.

#15 Posted by Jrinswand (1704 posts) -

All right. I really don't want to get into shitfits and forum wars about why I think the article is ridiculous and reactionary (like most of their coverage of Diablo 3 to date) or arguments in which I dissect the article line by line attempting to show my viewpoint. Apparently nobody else agrees with me. I'll leave it at that.

#16 Edited by Bobby_The_Great (1004 posts) -

Regardless of their hate, pass the initial few days of a botched launch, I've been having a blast with Diablo 3. 

#17 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@AlexW00d said:

@Bell_End said:

other that the obvious internet connection complaints this guys biggest beef seems to be how little they have change Diablo's formula. but i bet if they had changed it the guy would be bitching about how much it has changed and how its no longer diablo and how they have pissed in fans mouths.

Dude, you're an idiot.

No, he's not.

#18 Posted by Brodehouse (9882 posts) -

I'm tired of 'being a snarky asshole that shits on everything" being "honest".

Even better "they don't cave to pressure and tell it like it is". When the public is going nuts with anger it's not hard at all to shit on the thing they're mad at. That's not being brave, that's being an opportunistic populist. F

#19 Posted by Brodehouse (9882 posts) -

Goddamn mobile site. Why isn't there an edit button? This better be addressed in the new site.

Anyways, for every million who love a game, there are two million who do not. That's just the nature of a wide industry with many genres and niches. There is nothing 'brave' or 'honest' about shitting on a game that the majority of people are angry about. When they write an article that kicks Call of Duty in the balls, it's not speaking truth to power, it's baiting for a million "yeah I hate Call of Duty too!" comments and page views.

#20 Posted by Binman88 (3686 posts) -

@Jrinswand said:

All right. I really don't want to get into shitfits and forum wars about why I think the article is ridiculous and reactionary (like most of their coverage of Diablo 3 to date) or arguments in which I dissect the article line by line attempting to show my viewpoint. Apparently nobody else agrees with me. I'll leave it at that.

Shitfits and forum wars? What? More like people are stating contrary opinions to yours and you're having none of it. Quick! Distance yourself from imaginary "shitfits" to hide the fact that you can't handle people disagreeing with you! Maybe don't post a thread in a discussion forum if you're just going to throw your toys out of the pram and refuse to partake in a discussion!

#21 Posted by AlexW00d (6239 posts) -

@TentPole said:

@AlexW00d said:

@Bell_End said:

other that the obvious internet connection complaints this guys biggest beef seems to be how little they have change Diablo's formula. but i bet if they had changed it the guy would be bitching about how much it has changed and how its no longer diablo and how they have pissed in fans mouths.

Dude, you're an idiot.

No, he's not.

Yes he is. If either of you looked at previous articles you'd see that that isn't the case. Actually, if you read the fucking article at hand you'd see it's not the case.

@Brodehouse said:

I'm tired of 'being a snarky asshole that shits on everything" being "honest". Even better "they don't cave to pressure and tell it like it is". When the public is going nuts with anger it's not hard at all to shit on the thing they're mad at. That's not being brave, that's being an opportunistic populist. F

Same with you dude. Read the bloody article and you'll see the author says he enjoys the game, but it just let down by it being nothing but more Diablo 2. How is that shitting on everything?

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#22 Posted by SlasherMan (1725 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

I'm tired of 'being a snarky asshole that shits on everything" being "honest". Even better "they don't cave to pressure and tell it like it is". When the public is going nuts with anger it's not hard at all to shit on the thing they're mad at. That's not being brave, that's being an opportunistic populist. F

That would be Jim Sterling, not John Walker.

#23 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

@Jrinswand: I wouldn't know what to tell you because to me most games reviews are pointless to me , in the sense that everybody at this point of both the generation and their lives has formed a taste for certain things in games and not everybody shares it , so when a writter shares his/her thoughts with a game the only thing that s/he can tell me that I should pay attention is the fact that s/he played the game before me and can tell me about his/her experience (possible technical problems as the only thing that could be consistent for everyone who reads it), from there I need to draw a line into what I consider fun, worthwhile , innovative about the game and what S/HE considers fun, wothwhile, innovative etc. I don't have the time to read dozens of articles to gauge if the writter's taste/opinions lines up with mine and how s/he jugdes games and s/he considers fun, good or bad (because when a game gets praised what do you think the reader is going to do? he'll "say hey that guy say the game was really good and gave it a pretty high score it must be good then" , the same on the other end ) .

So personally I just don't pay attention to reviews or scores , a gameplay video a trailer or demo/beta would be good enough for me , I do think other people can read reviews and base their own opinion depending on what the piece says but I still think there's some sort of "psychological reinforcement of a thought" specially with opinion pieces as videogame reviews are (this is bad because this and this and that!) , you're probably are going to agree after all you haven't tried it yet so if you can somehow form your own thought based on your limited experience with the game then might as well just disagree with his/her opinion and buy the game if you feel strong enough to argue agaisnt his thoughts without having any experience yourself.

#24 Posted by EXTomar (4687 posts) -

A lot of the flak Blizzard is getting is justified and they need to see and hear it however players also need to keep things in perspective as well. Players should keep up the pressure until the game is reliable and stable but players shouldn't make crazy demands either.

#25 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@AlexW00d: I read the article and I also like to "keep it real" and "call it like I see it". It puts on airs as much most of the stuff at RPS. Pretentious fucking site is almost as bad as Edge.

#26 Posted by Emperor_Jimmu (249 posts) -

RPS is just a blog a few (very talented) guys. Their editorial voice is their own and specific to the writer. John Walker just doesn't think the game as good as it should be. As for their previous coverage of the game, they like to give exposure to small interesting releases so the only time it was worth their time or their readers time was in the reporting of problems related to delays and battle.net.

#27 Posted by Jrinswand (1704 posts) -
@Brodehouse said:
I'm tired of 'being a snarky asshole that shits on everything" being "honest". Even better "they don't cave to pressure and tell it like it is". When the public is going nuts with anger it's not hard at all to shit on the thing they're mad at. That's not being brave, that's being an opportunistic populist. F
Goddamn mobile site. Why isn't there an edit button? This better be addressed in the new site. Anyways, for every million who love a game, there are two million who do not. That's just the nature of a wide industry with many genres and niches. There is nothing 'brave' or 'honest' about shitting on a game that the majority of people are angry about. When they write an article that kicks Call of Duty in the balls, it's not speaking truth to power, it's baiting for a million "yeah I hate Call of Duty too!" comments and page views. 
Yeah. Pretty much this.
 
@Binman88 said:

@Jrinswand said:

All right. I really don't want to get into shitfits and forum wars about why I think the article is ridiculous and reactionary (like most of their coverage of Diablo 3 to date) or arguments in which I dissect the article line by line attempting to show my viewpoint. Apparently nobody else agrees with me. I'll leave it at that.

Shitfits and forum wars? What? More like people are stating contrary opinions to yours and you're having none of it. Quick! Distance yourself from imaginary "shitfits" to hide the fact that you can't handle people disagreeing with you! Maybe don't post a thread in a discussion forum if you're just going to throw your toys out of the pram and refuse to partake in a discussion!

Are you done trolling now? I didn't say that we were having a shitfit or a forum war. I just said that I don't want this to become one. I also really don't have the time to spend 10 pages of a thread explaining myself, as I'm currently on the clock (and, honestly, even if I wasn't then I'd rather be playing Diablo). I really just wanted this thread to start some sort of discussion, one which I didn't want to have to force on other people.
#28 Posted by Jimbo (9804 posts) -

You mean they dared to call out a massively hyped up game for its flaws, despite the fact that it is currently heavily advertised on their site?
 
That's called integrity. I understand your surprise at seeing it on a videogame website - you may even be suffering from a mild form of shock, but don't worry, it'll pass.

#29 Posted by Jimbo (9804 posts) -
@Brodehouse said:
There is nothing 'brave' or 'honest' about shitting on a game that the majority of people are angry about.
Even if your site is plastered in advertising for that game?
#30 Posted by AlexW00d (6239 posts) -

@TentPole said:

@AlexW00d: I read the article and I also like to "keep it real" and "call it like I see it". It puts on airs as much most of the stuff at RPS. Pretentious fucking site is almost as bad as Edge.

Yeah all right buddy. It's no more pretentious than Giant Bomb, but if you wanna see it that way, you do so.

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#31 Posted by Getz (2997 posts) -

I haven't read too much of their stuff, but the internet is pretty hard-pressed for legitimate PC games coverage so I'm all for what they're doing over there. When you think about it, Giant Bomb is a sarcastic group of guys as well. You just happen to agree with what they're saying.

#32 Posted by EmuLeader (558 posts) -

I haven't read the article, and my comment is more on the commenters anyway. I like how as soon as a reviewer writes how he doesn't like a popular game everyone is so quick to defend him for his "integrity" and that they are "standing up" for they're opinions. This may be true but it is not always the case. It may be cynical of me, but most of the articles that bash a big game like that just look like they are trying to get traffic by having a controversial view and being "edgy."

Against the argument that the game is just the same as Diablo II, I don't really see how that is a bad thing. It's been 12 years since it came out, so it is not as if they are flooding the market by releasing the same game three years in a row like most of Activision's popular titles. It seems Blizzard answered their fans' call to bring back Diablo with better graphics and some tweaked gameplay choices, i.e. runes, only six usable skills at a time, etc. If they gave the fans what they wanted and made it super polished in the process, I don't really see the issue.

#33 Posted by Dezztroy (788 posts) -
@EmuLeader said:

I haven't read the article

Then why are you commenting?
#34 Posted by bunnymud (717 posts) -

Path of Exile just got too mainstream for me

#35 Posted by DexterKid (668 posts) -

Is that the same guy who said The Wire has the worst writing he's ever encountered?

#36 Posted by Nicked (247 posts) -

I think we often see the sentiment that games "aren't innovative enough" and I think that's a foolish argument. If the design of a game is sound, then it shouldn't warrant constant innovation. 3D Chess isn't better than Chess, for example. Black Ops 2 doesn't seem particularly innovative, but the new setting has people excited. "Not innovative" is a petty criticism, in my opinion.

That said, I think the RPS guy raises some good points. He calls the game "hollow" and from what I've seen and the little I've played, that seems accurate. For all the rewards you get, you don't really seem to do a lot. Granted, I've only played on Normal, but that consisted of me holding the left mouse button for 2 hours, or however long I played. Even if "Normal" is your easiest difficult, that is flat out bad design. On the hardest difficulty, you kill monsters to get better loot... to kill monsters to get better loot... While I too succumb to the appeal of that process, I can still recognize it as remarkably hollow.

It's also kind of shameful that the game launched without features. The real money auction house doesn't work, there's no voice-chat, and there's no PVP. (What if Borderlands 2 launched without PVP?) You might say that these things aren't a big deal, but I expect a comprehensive package from a company that is supposed to be one of the best.

My perception of Blizzard is that they are a developer removed (or relaxed) from the limitations of both budget and development time. In that context, Diablo 3 ought to be better than it is.

I still think the game looks cool, and I'm looking forward to playing it to get a better idea of what it's all about, but it seems like it's a game that should be better. Just because people exaggerate a game's problems doesn't mean that they aren't there. The writer of the article could have been a little more tactful, but I think many of his criticisms are valid.

#37 Posted by laserbolts (5319 posts) -

@Bobby_The_Great said:

Regardless of their hate, pass the initial few days of a botched launch, I've been having a blast with Diablo 3.

Same GOTY so far for me by a long shot and with infinite delayed I can only see Borderlands 2 changing that.

#38 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11636 posts) -

I don't agree with him entirely, but one of his points is that Blizzard could have done more than just make Diablo again, and I'm apt to agree. Not that it matters though, because I'm still enjoying myself quite a bit.

#39 Posted by EXTomar (4687 posts) -

That is an interesting point but I wonder if that is possible. I mean I look at DOTA 2 and know it is DOTA again and struggle to image what they could do to make it different. I have no idea what they could do with the format to change it up.

#40 Posted by Animasta (14673 posts) -

the thing I hate about RPS is the fact that they can't just write a normal opening paragraph to save their lives. It's like, super manufactured british tweeness.

#41 Posted by PolyesterPimp (254 posts) -

@Jrinswand: That article actually was pretty well written in my opinion and I don't see where you're trying to make your point. I mean clearly he is having issues with the game like the vast majority of the world has been having so is it wrong for him to give his opinion on the genre as a whole? I agree with him completely with a lot if not all of his points and think Blizzard dropped the ball with this release. Yes the game is fun but do I see myself playing this a month or even a year after I finish it? No. This wasn't worth the time they spent to make it nor was it worth the 60$ I spent to purchase it. The only notable thing they've added to the equation is the shitty DRM which could have been done a whole lot better. I'm not saying at this moment I am not enjoying the game but I do hear where the article is coming from and although all his points have been spoken about a billion times it doesn't change that they exist.

#42 Posted by AlexW00d (6239 posts) -

@Animasta said:

It's like, super manufactured british tweeness.

The fuck does that even mean?

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#43 Posted by WMWA (1160 posts) -

I am completely satisfied with Diablo 3 and it seems to be everything I want from this game. That guy can blog about what he doesn't like about it, I'll keep playing D3 with a smile on my face. And the world will continue to spin.


I really do like his writing style, though

#44 Posted by WMWA (1160 posts) -
@AlexW00d

@Animasta said:

It's like, super manufactured british tweeness.

The fuck does that even mean?

Do you have to be such a hostile twat to everyone on here? Go enjoy your day, dude
#45 Posted by Animasta (14673 posts) -

@AlexW00d said:

@Animasta said:

It's like, super manufactured british tweeness.

The fuck does that even mean?

I don't know! I can't adequately explain it. They take the first paragraph and are required to try to be funny in it, no matter what. it's just kinda annoying after a while

#46 Posted by Jrinswand (1704 posts) -
@PolyesterPimp said:

@Jrinswand: That article actually was pretty well written in my opinion and I don't see where you're trying to make your point. I mean clearly he is having issues with the game like the vast majority of the world has been having so is it wrong for him to give his opinion on the genre as a whole? I agree with him completely with a lot if not all of his points and think Blizzard dropped the ball with this release. Yes the game is fun but do I see myself playing this a month or even a year after I finish it? No. This wasn't worth the time they spent to make it nor was it worth the 60$ I spent to purchase it. The only notable thing they've added to the equation is the shitty DRM which could have been done a whole lot better. I'm not saying at this moment I am not enjoying the game but I do hear where the article is coming from and although all his points have been spoken about a billion times it doesn't change that they exist.

See, but to me it just sounds like you're not part of the intended audience for this game in the first place. Do you just not like action-RPGs?
 
@wmaustin55 said:
Do you have to be such a hostile twat to everyone on here? Go enjoy your day, dude
White knights gonna white knight.
#47 Posted by sins_of_mosin (1556 posts) -

That article sums up my beta experience. 

#48 Posted by Undeadpool (4924 posts) -

@Bell_End said:

other that the obvious internet connection complaints this guys biggest beef seems to be how little they have change Diablo's formula. but i bet if they had changed it the guy would be bitching about how much it has changed and how its no longer diablo and how they have pissed in fans mouths.

DINGDINGDING! We have a WINNAH!

It's almost like complaining is more important to some people than enjoyment.

#49 Posted by countinhallways (632 posts) -

I like RPS a whole lot. In fact I am going to go there right now and re-read some of the Day Z articles they posted recently.

While listening to the new 8-4 Play podcast.

And downloading the Rayman: Origins 3DS demo.

And eating dinner.

Christ... an awful lot of what I do for entertainment these days revolves around videogames. Not eating though, that I do to satisfy my sexual deviancy. I mean hunger.

#50 Posted by WMWA (1160 posts) -
@Jrinswand Yep

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