Vitality is Vital - How Large a HP Pool for each Act?

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#1 Posted by Seppli (10250 posts) -

I'm in Act III currently. At first I didn't equip any vitality gear whatsoever - until I died somewhere in the middle of Act II. Gradually, I added more and more vitality into the mix, until I felt comfortable again. How large a HP pool do you shoot for? Depending on Act and difficulty setting and class?

Demon Hunter (normal)

  • Act I - 500-1000 HP (somewhere between none and some VIT gear)
  • Act II - 1500-2500 HP (definitely be on the high end of the spectrum farther into the Act)
  • Act III - 3000-???? (just began here, started out with 3k HP and already pushed it to 3,5k with VIT/DEX gear from the AH)

My itemization tip in general. Everytime the blacksmith has a new class and level appropriate item to build, go check the AH for a suitable piece, rather than building one yourself. It'll come cheaper.

#2 Posted by Ragnarok512 (161 posts) -

I've just started act III on my monk and I've got about 1600 HP. I decided to stack avoidance instead of HP, so I have about 40% dodge at the moment. It seems to be working fine.

#3 Edited by PhantomGardener (471 posts) -

I'm a wizard, so naturally I stay as far away as possible from the mobs. If the mobs gets to close I have diamond skin and other means to prevent me from dying. So, so far I haven't really given vitality much thought.

#4 Posted by StarvingGamer (8558 posts) -

I want to say that I was still only around 3k HP when I beat Normal but I was a DH so I basically wasn't getting hit.

#5 Posted by gamefreak9 (2419 posts) -

Really? Your a DH and want vit? I played through chap 1 never getting below 50% or using a potion. DH is all avoidance abilities so I dno why you need HP, Skellie king and Butcher didn't even touch me.

#6 Posted by Getz (3155 posts) -

@PhantomGardener said:

I'm a wizard, so naturally I stay as far away as possible from the mobs. If the mobs gets to close I have diamond skin and other means to prevent me from dying. So, so far I haven't really given vitality much thought.

and do you find that "fucked up?"

#7 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

Really? Your a DH and want vit? I played through chap 1 never getting below 50% or using a potion. DH is all avoidance abilities so I dno why you need HP, Skellie king and Butcher didn't even touch me.

I did not equip VIT at first, not until the latter half of Act II (if you've read as much as the first paragraph of the OP, this would not come as a surprise to you). Difficulty drops significantly with a comfortable health pool. Why would anybody not equip a certain base amount of VIT for every chapter/act, unless you want to make the game purposefully hard for yourself? To increase your HP pool to match the challenge at hand is not only viable, it is vital.

#8 Posted by gamefreak9 (2419 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Really? Your a DH and want vit? I played through chap 1 never getting below 50% or using a potion. DH is all avoidance abilities so I dno why you need HP, Skellie king and Butcher didn't even touch me.

I did not equip VIT at first, not until the latter half of Act II (if you've read the first paragraph of the OP, this would not come as a surprise to you). Difficulty drops significantly with a comfortable health pool. Why would anybody not equip a certain base amount of VIT for every chapter/act, unless you want to make the game purposefully hard for yourself? To increase your HP pool to match the challenge at hand is not only viable, it is vital.

I disagree, this way i'm on my toes dodging more or less all attacks. I have the slowing left click, caltrops, and tumble thing(forget what its called) to me that means i can afford to completly specialize in dexterity and wipe out everyone quickly! + i'm benefiting from high dodge.

#9 Posted by darkwingduck (174 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

Really? Your a DH and want vit? I played through chap 1 never getting below 50% or using a potion. DH is all avoidance abilities so I dno why you need HP, Skellie king and Butcher didn't even touch me.

to be fair, almost everybody got trough act one without losing a critical amount of hp

#10 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

@gamefreak9 said:

@Seppli said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Really? Your a DH and want vit? I played through chap 1 never getting below 50% or using a potion. DH is all avoidance abilities so I dno why you need HP, Skellie king and Butcher didn't even touch me.

I did not equip VIT at first, not until the latter half of Act II (if you've read the first paragraph of the OP, this would not come as a surprise to you). Difficulty drops significantly with a comfortable health pool. Why would anybody not equip a certain base amount of VIT for every chapter/act, unless you want to make the game purposefully hard for yourself? To increase your HP pool to match the challenge at hand is not only viable, it is vital.

I disagree, this way i'm on my toes dodging more or less all attacks. I have the slowing left click, caltrops, and tumble thing(forget what its called) to me that means i can afford to completly specialize in dexterity and wipe out everyone quickly! + i'm benefiting from high dodge.

Depends how far in you are with your DH. Sooner or later you can no longer evade everything. Blizzard has seen to that. Not equipping any VIT at all will lead to your hero getting pretty much one-shot.

What's better? A 3x larger HP pool, increasing survivabilty by 300%? Or a measily couple percent more damage and avoidance instead? It's quite clear cut that you'll benefit from an appropiate amount of HP much more, rather than disregarding VIT completely for pure DEX - it's nonsense, and will become unplayable quickly. The latter half of Act II is already quite uncomfortable to play, lacking a sensible HP pool.

Nope. You're dead wrong. You'll equip VIT sooner or later. Just how much, that's the question at hand.

#11 Posted by Maginnovision (487 posts) -

I'm in act 3 as a witch doctor and only have 1500 hp. working fine for me.

#12 Edited by gamefreak9 (2419 posts) -

@darkwingduck said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Really? Your a DH and want vit? I played through chap 1 never getting below 50% or using a potion. DH is all avoidance abilities so I dno why you need HP, Skellie king and Butcher didn't even touch me.

to be fair, almost everybody got trough act one without losing a critical amount of hp

brad would disagree with you :P. Also its not just about that, I trying to see how you avoid attacks in preparation for higher difficulties, since I expect vit will be useless in inferno since you will be one or two hits from everything.

#13 Edited by Garfield518 (401 posts) -

Almost 14k in Nightmare Act 3.

If you don't have a high health pool on anything except normal, expect to get one-shotted - especially in multiplayer.

#14 Posted by ShadowConqueror (3087 posts) -

I'm in Act 4 on normal as a Wizard and have yet to get much more than 2000 HP. Seems less crucial with the right survivability skills.

#15 Posted by Syndrom (368 posts) -

i'm in Act IV on nightmare with about 8-9 hp on my monk. not that much but i do have some crazy selfhealing. Basicly every skill i use that need spirit heals me for the amout of spirit used x 12,5

pretty damn great.

#16 Posted by Renahzor (1001 posts) -

Witchdoctor, I didn't shoot for vitality through all of normal, and finished normal mode with approx 2500 HP doing 3player MP through most of the game, and my pets and me did most of the tanking. I could easily kill most packs of mobs myself even with 3 people in the game so HP wasn't really a big deal. I used a bit of HP on hit gear, and pets obviously help that. Going into NM I'll be adding some vitality to keep from getting one shot and just more survivability stuff overall.

#17 Posted by Tennmuerti (8174 posts) -

My approach to VIT: if you have enough DPS you don't need much VIT :P

Just got past Leoric Nightmare act1, my 3.5k is way way more then enough, when my 1k dps is killing everything in a blink (might change my mind when i get to an act boss)

#18 Posted by Syndrom (368 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

My approach to VIT: if you have enough DPS you don't need much VIT :P

Just got past Leoric Nightmare act1, my 3.5k is way way more then enough, when my 1k dps is killing everything in a blink (might change my mind when i get to an act boss)

meh all the actbosses are pretty much pussies when you know what to expect really. Diablo was harder on nightmare, but still did it in one try on my monk. I'm having lots more difficulty with some mob packs than the bosses. I hope hell is harder.

#19 Posted by Heylook (235 posts) -

up to 7k in nightmare in Act II.

#20 Posted by emergency (1190 posts) -

On normal it's sort of trivial. I have only 1500 HP in Act III on my barbarian and i'm having a jolly easy time with most encounters.

#21 Posted by Giefcookie (611 posts) -

Just rolled into Act IV on normal as a wizard and had my first death on the initial boss. Running with 3k HP. I guess its also more class dependant, wizard will most likely be lowest and barb the highest just based on the class stats and combat style. I'm pretty stacked on offensive abilities instead of defensive or utility so I tend to get into trouble with Wallers and big packs with Vortex elites.

Does anyone of my fellow wizards run with a shield btw? Looking at the possibility of swapping out a dmg offhand for an extra 10% melee damage reduction for the harder difficulties.

#22 Posted by TheBostonPops (70 posts) -
@Giefcookie I run with a shield most of the time with my wizard, unless I find an ahmazing offhand or twohander. I find myself using shields mostly during the beginning of acts when the rest of my gear isn't optimized very well.
#23 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

Trolling the AH for VIT/DEX 'yellow' gear on the cheap about every half an hour to an hour or so, I'm starting off Act IV (normal) with 5,5k HP, and like 30 HP/s reg (and all my gear has like 40+ Dex too).

It's quite ludicrous how trolling the AH is way more effective at getting great level appropriate gear, rather than loot and crafting.

Got a 40 DPS 1hand crossbow with 60 Dex and 60 Vit for like 4k - and it had a socket too. Pack a decent Ruby into it and that's a 60 DPS weapon. Not too shabby for a lvl 27 weapon.

P.S. I'm totally wierded out by the lack of normalized item levels. Some items seem inappropriately powerful for their lvl.

#24 Posted by StarvingGamer (8558 posts) -

Everyone who thinks they don't need Vit, just wait until you start running into Jailer/Mortar/Wall elites/champions. No amount of DPS or fancy dodging is going to save you there.

#25 Posted by ajamafalous (12161 posts) -

Just finished Act II NIghtmare and I'm sitting at 10k Health and 1100 DPS.

#26 Posted by MrCandleguy (813 posts) -

II just clocked Act 4 and I killed the last boss with 1.9k health. I have a ton of skills etc that heal my back to full health. I'm a monk btw, so I have a epic healing spelling, for the shield skill it heals me, every time i use spirit it heals me, i have health regen. The first time I died was half way through ACT 3.

#27 Edited by Tennmuerti (8174 posts) -

@StarvingGamer said:

Everyone who thinks they don't need Vit, just wait until you start running into Jailer/Mortar/Wall elites/champions. No amount of DPS or fancy dodging is going to save you there.

On normal? Pffft naaaaah. :)

Yea huge DPS can carry you easily. I went through act4 on 2-2.5k hp without dying on my monk. With a good set of abilities and high dps everything dies before they can get shots in.

Also stacking VIT imo is not the way to go, yes VIT is important, but a good balance of armor/dodge/resists/VIT is a better way to go.

#28 Posted by StarvingGamer (8558 posts) -
@Tennmuerti No, I mean on Hell
#29 Posted by Xeirus (1371 posts) -

@Syndrom said:

@Tennmuerti said:

My approach to VIT: if you have enough DPS you don't need much VIT :P

Just got past Leoric Nightmare act1, my 3.5k is way way more then enough, when my 1k dps is killing everything in a blink (might change my mind when i get to an act boss)

meh all the actbosses are pretty much pussies when you know what to expect really. Diablo was harder on nightmare, but still did it in one try on my monk. I'm having lots more difficulty with some mob packs than the bosses. I hope hell is harder.

Hah, this guy...

#30 Posted by Syndrom (368 posts) -

@Xeirus said:

@Syndrom said:

@Tennmuerti said:

My approach to VIT: if you have enough DPS you don't need much VIT :P

Just got past Leoric Nightmare act1, my 3.5k is way way more then enough, when my 1k dps is killing everything in a blink (might change my mind when i get to an act boss)

meh all the actbosses are pretty much pussies when you know what to expect really. Diablo was harder on nightmare, but still did it in one try on my monk. I'm having lots more difficulty with some mob packs than the bosses. I hope hell is harder.

Hah, this guy...

What?

Also played some hell today with a friend, finished act I, bosses are quite a bit harder but still not that huge of a challenge.

But those damn rare/elite/whatever packs are giving me huge troubles. And you do need lots of hp and resistances from hell on, pretty much steamrolled through nightmare but hell is a very different tale.

#31 Posted by Tennmuerti (8174 posts) -

@StarvingGamer said:

@Tennmuerti No, I mean on Hell

Yeah well no shit you need VIT on Hell lol :P

#32 Posted by Adamsons (873 posts) -

22k hp act 2 hell, doesn't feel like enough a lot of the time, especially against arcane / molten / wallers.

#33 Posted by wemibelec90 (1838 posts) -

I just beat the game last night with my DH on Normal and never went over about 2200 HP. The boss right before the final one could one shot me if he reached me but I just kited him around. The final boss gave me some trouble too but it was manageable as long as I didn't let myself get touched. More vitality probably would have helped a lot on that fight.

#34 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

God damn auction house is broken since last night, when I beat the game for the first time. It's almost impossible to buy anything. Been stuck with my 'normal run' gear all day. God, I'm lvl 40 now with lvl 25-30 gear. Didn't get a single lootdrop suited for my DH for all of Act I and the first half of Act II on Nightmare (and gave up on crafting 'til lvl 60, in favor selling shitty blues for gold in order to buy AH gear). Was stuck at 550 DPS for all of it. Good god that was frustrating.

Luckily I somehow managed to search for lvl 39-40 handheld crossbows, and managed to grab a decent one, pushing my DPS to a bearable 750. Still can't get the AH to search for anything but gems since. Think I'll call it a night and hope that it's fixed by tomorrow. Good god, it's the weekend now. No amount of will can fix millions of people hammering that stupid thing. Worse than a DDoS attack... for it's real!

#35 Posted by happypup70 (172 posts) -

@StarvingGamer said:

Everyone who thinks they don't need Vit, just wait until you start running into Jailer/Mortar/Wall elites/champions. No amount of DPS or fancy dodging is going to save you there.

Absolutely, Vit becomes extremely important in nightmare and beyond. I have around 9k on my demon hunter right now and 2 or three good hits from champions/elites can take me down. When you add the fact that they double up on special abilities you can end up walled in with molten enemies that leave a trail of fire that does damage and there is very little you can do to get out.

#36 Posted by TobbRobb (4848 posts) -

You need stupid amounts of hp in the latter difficulties, even as a DH or Wiz. The enemies just have so many ways to fuck you over and force some damage down.

Online
#37 Edited by Sjupp (1911 posts) -

So I just got into Inferno on my Monk.

I finished Hell at about 33k hp, 3k armor and 80ish to all resistances as a defensive/tanky monk. I pretty much facerolled everything solo up until hell. (Seriously, I barely had to move on even any of the Nightmare mode bosses.)

Please note that some buffs, etc. gave bonuses that does not show here.

Edit: Blah, I'll have to reupload this image properly when I can be arsed to. It's 04.52 AM here.

#38 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

So just dinged 60. At the end of Act III on Hell. After upgrading weapon and offhand to affordable lvl 60 upgrades - I'm now standing at 35k HP and 10,5k DPS (pre-crit buff). At 100% critchance (via Sharpshooter passive) the paperdoll menu shows over 26k DPS.

Guess it's time to start and earn myself a 1000 DPS crossbow. Already doing crazy things with the new 650ish one I just got now. 51k Burning Acid Impale crits... makes me wonder what the extra crit damage Impale rune would do to that.

#39 Posted by Flushes (329 posts) -

I have 24,000 HP at level 49 in Act 4 nightmare, and the only way it gets depleted more than 50 percent is bad luck on an elite pack (molten, arcane, etc). I'm either over-leveled or just have too much vitality.

#40 Posted by Mnemoidian (962 posts) -

Monk. Entered Hell difficulty with little over 9k HP, I expect I'm at around 11k HP as of beating the butcher.

Looking at other's hp pools here, and the DPS thread, I'm thinking my gear is pretty bad, I should probably put some time into the AH/Farming Act 1... :P

#41 Posted by Green_Incarnate (1791 posts) -

There's a build for the wizzard where you need to avoid getting vitality, and instead go for life regen. That passive shield ability that turns every death blow to only 1/3 your health makes you almost invincible. The idea is that you can regen 1/3 your life after every hit instantly, so you never die if your health is low and regen is high enough.

#42 Posted by takayamasama (440 posts) -

As A 1hander/Shield Barb who just finished Act 4 in nightmare and is farming Whimsyshire, I have 28k hp unbuffed. I'm not trying to stack it alone, but I am trying to get as much STR and VIT on all my pieces as I can. I think I am starting to lean more towards Vit over STR even, seeing how my damage is pretty beastly, and with more HP i just don't die, unless I get a bad combo of frozen/molten or frozen/desecrate or frozen/arcane......ya know, fuck frozen mobs.

Online
#43 Posted by Gravier251 (217 posts) -

Demon Hunter at lvl 42 (Pretty much end of Act 2 nightmare) with 4571 health. Has been more than enough for me so far as I tend to use smoke screen quite a lot for the 3 seconds of invulnerability.

#44 Posted by Vortextk (421 posts) -

Your vit stacking eventually turns into damage stacking in inferno, but definitely go for lots of vit for now. Traps, slows and vault served me well, but inferno is just brutal to a demon hunter. You either use smoke screen with a build geared towards having and generating discipline, or you get 1shot by everything imaginable. The fallen in act 3, the very first monsters there, do like 50k a hit to me. I had 43k health at most at one point. Most things in act 2 1shot me as well. Almost all boss attacks 1shot me. Belial pounding his fist into the ground did 127k.
 
I could do act 1 with a regular slowing build with lots of kiting and vault to escape but it was just completely worthless in act2 unless I wanted to die multiple times every fight.

#45 Posted by Tennmuerti (8174 posts) -

@Vortextk: oouch

#46 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

@Vortextk said:

Your vit stacking eventually turns into damage stacking in inferno, but definitely go for lots of vit for now. Traps, slows and vault served me well, but inferno is just brutal to a demon hunter. You either use smoke screen with a build geared towards having and generating discipline, or you get 1shot by everything imaginable. The fallen in act 3, the very first monsters there, do like 50k a hit to me. I had 43k health at most at one point. Most things in act 2 1shot me as well. Almost all boss attacks 1shot me. Belial pounding his fist into the ground did 127k. I could do act 1 with a regular slowing build with lots of kiting and vault to escape but it was just completely worthless in act2 unless I wanted to die multiple times every fight.

Yeah - figured as much when I realized Smoke Screen meant invulnerabilty, not just invisibilty.

Currently pondering to replace Vault altogether. Maybe with 'Guardian Turret (-15% incoming dmg)' and replacing one passive trait with 'Numbing Traps (-25% incoming damange for 3 sec. on Spike Trap hit). Minus 40% incoming damage is nothing to sneeze at, especially on Inferno in a group setup. I have a hard time letting go of Vengance, but it's either that or losing Archery or Sharpshooter. Oh well - guess Blizz nailed balance, when I have such a hard time deciding on passive skills. I'd be going from http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WZXdVS!eTb!aZZcbc to http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WZXkVS!eTV!aZZcbc

That said, Act I Inferno is a cakewalk thus far. Most rare and elite packs die during my 12+ seconds of Invulnerabilty, due to massive burst AoE damage from Scatter Spike Trap and Volatile Explosives Bola Shot. DPS'ing while being as static as I can be - thanks to Smoke Screen - feels kinda lame in comparison to my offensive 'Trail of Embers Vaulting-style' I used up until Belial on Hell difficulty, but proactive and aggressive evasion just didn't work anymore against the plentyful cheesecake ability combos common in elite and rare mobs from Hell on out.

I definitely will still keep at increasing my HP pool regardless. It's just a matter of price luck and patience. Due to RNG in loot, gear can easily have very high stats on main attribute and vitality, as well as sporting additional DPS boosting attributes and even additional sockets. Currently sitting at about 14k DPS (pre-crit buff) and 40k HP. Spike traps blow up for up to 3x70k, Bolas up to 30k, Impale up to 60k & 20k DoT damage flat. Mad burst damage, at easily sustainable hatred cost (at least with Vengance).

#47 Posted by groin (860 posts) -

@Green_Incarnate said:

There's a build for the wizzard where you need to avoid getting vitality, and instead go for life regen. That passive shield ability that turns every death blow to only 1/3 your health makes you almost invincible. The idea is that you can regen 1/3 your life after every hit instantly, so you never die if your health is low and regen is high enough.

Blizzard nerfed that ability this morning. That build does not work anymore.

#48 Posted by Vortextk (421 posts) -

You rather swap out every single item with vit, with better stats though, eventually. Vit will actually be a bad stat to have on an item. Your 40k hp is basically a guaranteed one shot from most things in act2 on, I imagine 100% guaranteed in act3. I haven't tried act3 outside of getting owned by monsters right out the gate. Discipline is better to stack for defense.

#49 Posted by lobsterman (37 posts) -

2.6k health at the beginning of nightmare act 2 with my monk. No problems due to healing mantra, sanctuary, armor and dodge. Then enemies started one-shotting me, and i was dying on almost every blue and gold dude 2-3 times. And that bummed me out.

So i switched from my dex gear to a bit more health, respecced my skills and runes a bit. Now i'm at 5k+ health, lost about 150-200 dps, but it was totally worth it. I can tank any mob for however long i want, i'm not saying everything is trivial, but i never died since.

#50 Posted by Tru3_Blu3 (3245 posts) -

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This much^

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