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Demon Hunter Lesson : Equip 2-handed crossbow

Demon Hunter - after playing most of Normal and all of Nightmare with a onehanded crossbow and shield, I finally decided to try out 2-handed crossbows. Oh dear - from lvl 30 on, with the passive skill 'Archery' (+50% more critdmg on 2-handed crossbows), you'll definitely want to go with 2-handed crossbows. The increase in effective DPS was astounding for me. Guess the passive lvl 50 skill 'Sharpshooter' helps a lot to, making my DH crit much more regularly.

That said, I'm a 'Long Fuse Spike Trap' and 'Chemical Burn Impale' user, combined with the Bat companion for Hatred regeneration and 'Battlescars Preparation' for additional self-heal, and I always run with some variation of 'Vault' - to vault is to be a Demon Hunter. My Hatred builder is usually 'Volatile Explosives Bola Shot'. Quite a wind-up on all the attacks, but massive and usually instant payoff.

I really gimped my Demon Hunter by using onhanded crossbows. Pretty much tripled the average damage by equipping 2-handed crossbows - 'Long Fuse Spike Trap' hitting for like 30k crits now. Fun Fact, the Bat companion crits for 1k+ now. Hilarity.

P.S. Currently lvl 53 DH in Act I Hell around Wortham. Still playing solo, 'til it ain't reasonably fun anymore.

P.P.S Here's my current build

playing as a barbarian, even if you tank, dps is important to some extent in the later difficulties due to vampiric mobs that require a high output to take down, wasnt an issue early in the game because melee would let the casters and ranged damage dealers take them out but vampiric casters became a major problem, those bad buys will leech everyone and need a whole group to take down.

also damage converted to health is a major survival tool, revenge is a life saver and frenzy is crazy single target dps.

playing in a group is so much fun because if you have a great group you play with regularly you have up to 4 chances for loot for every mob and they keep you up when things arent going so well.

As a lvl 17 Wizard, just that homing missiles are the new hotness, sorry ice beam. I didn't think I'd ever want to replace you, but it happened, deal with it.

As a Demon Hunter I learned to not use crossbows. I had been using them for the higher dps but by duel wielding hand crossbows the increased attack rate helps alot with my AOE attacks. such as shrapnel evasive fire and entangle+passive damage buff to slowed enemies.

For a third opinion on demon hunter I prefer bows with a quiver. at lvl 48 I have 4k dps and I am shredding through enemies in act three. I have sentry, vault, bat companion, hungering arrow, rapid fire with penetration, and strafe . I can rapid fire forever and take out both high dps single monsters and crowds.

As a Demon Hunter I learned the first rune for Vault turns you into Max Payne, as you fall through the air you shoot, but without the slow motion.

My demonhunter is real purty. And she at this point uses 2 offensive weapons, depends on the caltrops and dodging for the moment for defense.

@freakin9 said:

As a lvl 17 Wizard, just that homing missiles are the new hotness, sorry ice beam. I didn't think I'd ever want to replace you, but it happened, deal with it.

Just wait for Disintegrate. I can't remember what my life was like before Disintegrate.

@TentPole said:

As a Demon Hunter I learned to not use crossbows. I had been using them for the higher dps but by duel wielding hand crossbows the increased attack rate helps alot with my AOE attacks. such as shrapnel evasive fire and entangle+passive damage buff to slowed enemies.

I found the high rate of fire skills to be unsustainable on higher difficulties. Especially the low cost Hatred spenders. Yeah - we can spam them almost indefinitely, but there just isn't the time to do so against the glowy type of enemy. Often, I don't have the luxury to just stand there and sustain a high ROF skill for long. Big hitter skills like Impale and Spike Trap profit extremely from the low RNG high burst damage the 2-handed crossbows are dealing.

Sustained high ROF DPS is inferior, at least when playing solo - and I highly doubt dual onehanded crossbows outdo 2-handed crossbows in group situations either. AoE-wise - there's nothing more powerful than Spike Trap in the DHs arsenal. Combined with Bola Shot - entire herds of hellspawn are reduced to pink mist in an instant.

What have I learned about my barbarian?
 
1. Stuns and interrupts are key. 
2. Revenge is the only reason I survived.
3. Knockback can be a double edged sword. If they can't hit you, you can't hit them. 
4. Everything is a DPS race.

As the Witch Doctor, I've learned that as much as you might love to vomit armies of frogs, at some point once you've got your DPS up, you're going to want to pull your blow gun back out. It becomes ridiculously powerful with the triple-shot ruin.

As a Witch Doctor (at early levels at least), Soul Harvest is great to get an offensive edge with large groups of enemies. Also for large groups, Locust Swarm is pretty awesome to use, especially with the first rune that ensures that the spread to enemies is huge.

As a Demon Hunter, I learnt the way I Vault into enemies up close and lay waste with the Grenades probably means I should play a Monk.

@happypup70 said:

For a third opinion on demon hunter I prefer bows with a quiver. at lvl 48 I have 4k dps and I am shredding through enemies in act three. I have sentry, vault, bat companion, hungering arrow, rapid fire with penetration, and strafe . I can rapid fire forever and take out both high dps single monsters and crowds.

Dunno about bows vs crossbows. Bows have much more RNG to their damage, but higher spikes? Comes down to a blanket 15% dmg versus 50% more crit damage from 'Archery'. Quivers work for 2-handed crossbows too. Didn't try a bow in earnest since my normal playthrough. Much has changed since then. Gotta check them bows out, next time I upgrade from the AH.

@Seppli: Slowing enemies down can be just as helpful as a higher dps. There is more than one way to play a class.

Monk - lvl 57

As a Monk you can absolutely destroy as a support class. Cheap dashing strike + cheap wave of light makes you a fucking conductor. group all the enemies up, and then you and your party can destroy with aoe's.

For Barbarian, I think Rend (With either Ravage or Lacerate as your rune) and Leap is the way to go for abilities most of the time. The amount of damage it does is staggering at times (like half or more of the health bar of some monsters on Nightmare) and it is especially useful for bosses as if you are low on health you can hit them with a Rend then Leap away and run away until cooldown is done for potions. I beat Diablo first try with this method on Normal. 
 
Also, that Weapon Throw ability is insanely useful, especially with the ricochet rune. You can absolutely mow down anything once your fury bar is full. That ability makes catching those money dropping imps really easy.

@Seppli said:

@happypup70 said:

For a third opinion on demon hunter I prefer bows with a quiver. at lvl 48 I have 4k dps and I am shredding through enemies in act three. I have sentry, vault, bat companion, hungering arrow, rapid fire with penetration, and strafe . I can rapid fire forever and take out both high dps single monsters and crowds.

Dunno about bows vs crossbows. Bows have much more RNG to their damage, but higher spikes? Comes down to a blanket 15% dmg versus 50% more crit damage from 'Archery'. Quivers work for 2-handed crossbows too. Didn't try a bow in earnest since my normal playthrough. Much has changed since then. Gotta check them bows out, next time I upgrade from the AH.

That's quite true but bows are faster than crossbows and for me seem to work well in both single encounters with elites/champions and with large crowds. They seem too be the multipurpose option somewhere between the 2 handers and the crosbows, not the best at any one thing but good at everything.

@freakin9 said:

As a lvl 17 Wizard, just that homing missiles are the new hotness, sorry ice beam. I didn't think I'd ever want to replace you, but it happened, deal with it.

Just wait for Disintegrate. I can't remember what my life was like before Disintegrate.

For my demon hunter I run spike traps and damage caltrops. The caltrop dot stacks once they pop, so if something gets close I can just vault, hit them with the cluster arrow with the stun rune and watch them melt in my traps. For my with doctor i run dogs and the giant zombie. Between that and zombie wall it's pretty hard for anything to get to you. For glowies just pop confusion and watch them beat the crap out of themselves.

Playing Barbarian.. in Act 1 of Nightmare...

What I learned? Ignore Pain and stun movies are essential if you plan on wading into the thick of things and expect to live.

Playing a lvl 10 Monk and was playing a lvl 7 Witch doctor

What I learned is if you're a complete noob to Diablo and action Rpgs in general like me ,don't play a Witch Doctor .They are too fragile and one of the toughest class to play for a beginner.

The monk is awesome !!

@TentPole said:

@Seppli: Slowing enemies down can be just as helpful as a higher dps. There is more than one way to play a class.

Sure thing. Might just be that the AH was coming down with the bugs, last I played a high ROF playstyle, and I had horrible under-lvl'd gear. Stuff I previously liked a lot like Heavy Burden Entangling Shot & Lightning Ball Elemental Arrow just didn't cut it anymore.

Oh - another one for the Demon Hunter. Always be using the passive skill 'Vengance', which gives 'ya 20 Hatred per health globe, so that you can vault into Health Globes to get back a bunch of Hatred and lay down the hurt - even if you don't have time to put down some Hatred builder DPS.

@Seppli said:

Oh - another one for the Demon Hunter. Always be using the passive skill 'Vengance', which gives 'ya 20 Hatred per health globe, so that you can vault into Health Globes to get back a bunch of Hatred and lay down the hurt - even if you don't have time to put down some Hatred builder DPS.

I prefer using marked for death, with some rune in it that increases hatred. Regains hatred a lot faster, but you need to be level 48 for the rune.

Also, smoke screen + preparation seems pretty OP lol. I can be invincible for about 20-25 seconds.

I learned from my Monk that "Diablo destroys mice" is not an idle boast. When you have over 2.5 attacks per second and are using Fists of Thunder which speed you up even more. I think my left click on the mouse is starting to show symptoms.

Monks can faceroll everything up to Hell (leftclick to win on exactly everything) and then you're fucked.

Meteor Shower is God and you are his Prophet. Spread the Holy Word as much as you can.

Also mobs have asshole logic on Nightmare and target you first. Apparently they don't like being carpet-bombed, go figure.

Never go anywhere without my pretty little doggies and move if my enemies get too close. Also, burning giant bats can turn a horde of approaching goatmen into kebab in a matter of seconds.

As a Demon Hunter I learned that invisible = invincible apparently. I wish I knew that before I hit Hell.

Also Rapid Fire + Fire Support does an insane amount of DPS and can be channeled for way longer than should be possible if you have the right support skills. Even on Hell I often find myself just holding down my 1 key on champions, uniques, and super uniques and watching them die.

@Seppli said:

Oh - another one for the Demon Hunter. Always be using the passive skill 'Vengance', which gives 'ya 20 Hatred per health globe, so that you can vault into Health Globes to get back a bunch of Hatred and lay down the hurt - even if you don't have time to put down some Hatred builder DPS.

Vaulting into enemies seems crazy to me. Especially since you don't have it runed for Rattling Roll. Maybe it's because I'm stacking Dex since I kite so I never get hit except by bullshit champions like Waller Jailer Mortar. I never run out of Hatred anyways so I'd much rather enjoy the extra 50% damage from Steady Aim, Cull the Weak, and Archery (since I prefer bows as their attack rate is perfect for maintaining DPS while kiting without running out of Hatred).

i found out that even though i love my demon hunter i really dont care about traps and all that

I've learned that the Quickening rune for Fists of Thunder is bugged and coupled with the Boon of Protection rune with Mantra of Healing I cannot die.

I hope they don't fix it.

walking around with an entire posse filled with zombie dogs, companions and ogres is awesome.. also, giant bats and exploding skulls ftw

@SpunkyHePanda

@freakin9 said:

As a lvl 17 Wizard, just that homing missiles are the new hotness, sorry ice beam. I didn't think I'd ever want to replace you, but it happened, deal with it.

Just wait for Disintegrate. I can't remember what my life was like before Disintegrate.

And then Chaos Nexus Disintegrate on top of that. Wet dream dps.

@Nekrokreuz said:

@SpunkyHePanda

@freakin9 said:

As a lvl 17 Wizard, just that homing missiles are the new hotness, sorry ice beam. I didn't think I'd ever want to replace you, but it happened, deal with it.

Just wait for Disintegrate. I can't remember what my life was like before Disintegrate.

And then Chaos Nexus Disintegrate on top of that. Wet dream dps.

This. So much this.

For my Wizard I'll also add using Diamond Skin w/ Prism Rune and Storm Armor (forget the rune name but reduces AP cost). You can spam Disintegrate all day. Add in Magic Weapon to boost your DPS even more and watch out monsters. Also Hydra is pretty damn useful. Essentially a turret you can place anywhere that just keeps blasting at enemies.

@Sjupp said:

Monks can faceroll everything up to Hell (leftclick to win on exactly everything) and then you're fucked.

yep... telepunching everything with left click and 3 defensive passives... its so easy that I am disappoint

@Nekrokreuz said:

@SpunkyHePanda

@freakin9 said:

As a lvl 17 Wizard, just that homing missiles are the new hotness, sorry ice beam. I didn't think I'd ever want to replace you, but it happened, deal with it.

Just wait for Disintegrate. I can't remember what my life was like before Disintegrate.

And then Chaos Nexus Disintegrate on top of that. Wet dream dps.

This. So much this.

For my Wizard I'll also add using Diamond Skin w/ Prism Rune and Storm Armor (forget the rune name but reduces AP cost). You can spam Disintegrate all day. Add in Magic Weapon to boost your DPS even more and watch out monsters. Also Hydra is pretty damn useful. Essentially a turret you can place anywhere that just keeps blasting at enemies.

@Turambar said:

@Seppli: Why go with the +50% crit damage on crossbows when you can have a flat 15% damage buff on bows? Unless of course you get the lv 50 passive that increases crit chance by 3% a second, resetting after every crit.

Indeed I'm past lvl 50 - just dinged 56 tonight.

With my build, using Bola Shot and Impale and Spike Trap - I don't hit much, but I hit hard. Each of these skills bursts for between 25-40k crits with 200% increased crit damage on my equip and specc. Hell - even 'Trail of Embers Vault' hits for over 15k crits. 2-handed crossbows are the most consistent RNG-wise, and deal massive weapon damage too. Crit damage is defintely worth equipping. Especially since every second or third attack crits - due to the low ROF of my playstyle - with a one second window of opportunity to follow-up. Seeing how explosions tend to go off simultateously, crazy shit can happen. Spiketrap Bola Shot Impale and a criss cross of Trail of Embers Vault might even insta-gib weaker glowy packs, with a little crit luck and frantic timing.

I'll have to check out Bows when I'm lvl 60. But I doubt the higher rate of fire and 15% damage increase can offset the loss of average damage-per-hit and higher crits I'm doing with 2-handed crossbows - for my playstyle at least - though I'm sure there's a softcap for crit damage effectiveness, so likely Bows might really perform the best at some point of the 'endgame'.

Yesterday I learned that Inferno bosses feel like wow raid bosses and are the first truly challenging encounters. (We're making our way through Act 2 atm)

Thought id throw my hat in the ring:

59 Demon Hunter

Main - Hungering arrow - Devouring Arrow

Second - Charkam - Dual Chakram

1 - Rain of Vengeance - Dark Cloud

2 - Spike Trap - scatter

3 - Smoke screen - lingering fog

4 - Companion - Bat companion

Passive - Vengenace, Sharpshooter, Archery

Alrite, so first and foremost, the one thing that i havent seen a single other demon hunter use is smoke screen, and i think i understand why, its because the tooltip is incorrect. Not only will enemys not attack you, it makes you invulnerable as well as break any movement impairing effects(slow, freeze, stun, etc), so say you are fighting the butcher, and are gonna get caught in fire or are grappled by his chain, just pop smoke screen and all damage is negated. This has been the saving grace for me as a demon hunter.

Secondly, spike trap is ungodly powerful, and with scatter you will place three in a spread out row at a time which is great for large mobs to turn into a fine pink mist. However, when fighting harder enemies, the trick is to fight in doorways or stairs. Since the traps cant spread out, they layer on top of each other. For me each trap does about 12k on hit, 24 on crit, so imagine dealing anywhere between 36-72k damage in a single hit, oh my god enemies just melt away.

The bat is just there for extra regen.

Rain of vengeance is an essential aoe ability, other than its cooldown there is no cost, i use the dark cloud ability because it targets individual units, which i find works better if your fighting a boss or other large individual unit instead of a group of units, but it is still effective against a group.

Lastly dual chakrams i use because it can just cause tons of damage to enemies pouring out at you, or at the very least on a hit you get the full 100% damage, but on a good hit against say a boss, easily 400% damage.

Passive abilities - vengenace to increase my hatred, i use a crossbow, so archery gives me an additional 50% crit damage, and sharpshooter gives me extremly high crit ratings

Overall, i like the demon hunter, i can dish out damage like noone else, and smoke screen keeps me alive while doing it.

It's simple, really. Punch the living shit out of everything you see.

All jokes aside, equip a one handed with high vitality, dex and damage reduction along with a shield with high block chance, or don't even consider playing a melee class on Hell or above.

@FrenchFriedFool said:

It's simple, really. Punch the living shit out of everything you see.

All jokes aside, equip a one handed with high vitality, dex and damage reduction along with a shield with high block chance, or don't even consider playing a melee class on Hell or above.

I'm working hard on disproving this theory :)

Currently in act2 of Hell with a DW monk both weapons without VIT, so far no problems. (apart from ocasional BS elite pack, but i still always get them on the second try if necessary)

Wizard - Diamond Skin is awesome, and you should keep Teleport ready on Nightmare and above for elite mobs.

As a Demon Hunter:

-In Act 3 Hell, I pulled out Impale for the first time since lvl 8, nailed a champion for 50k with it, and realized I'd made a horrible mistake by not using it

-A +8 Discipline item (like a quiver) is one of the best investment you can make.

-Evasive Shot + Cover Fire makes for an awesome hatred generator

-Spike trap (especially with the rune that drops all three) is fantastic

-420 Smokescreen every day

demon hunter's chakram, runed with twin chakrams, rips through everything.

I guess I learned the most important lesson for Demon Hunters yesterday, and I'm pretty late to the party. Smoke Screen in fact doesn't only turn invisible, it turns invulnerable. Game Changer!